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123 21st April 2012 10:46 AM

Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
I just got started with IDNs and registered a couple of names. I found that some "not-too bad" names can still be bought or drop the best are long gone obviously.

My main concern is that there will be eventually a real market for many IDNs but no one knows exactly how long it will take for this market to develop.

which means you will have to pay for renewals in the meantime.

if one builds a portfolio of lets say 500 "somewhat-decent" names you will have to pay $5000/year for at least several years lets say 5 years = 25K in registration fees or even more if it takes longer.

From what i've read most IDNs don't generate enough income to pay for the renewals, the ones who do are usually not available anymore.

The names that i have for example don't really have any type-in traffic. So the chance that they will eventually be able to sustain themselves in the next few years are close to zero IMO.

The re-sale prices here on the board are low often close to reg-fee unless the name is really good.

So the first question would be:

Do you generate enough income from PPC parking and end-user sales(or other sales) to pay for the yearly reg-fees of your portfolio?

Or do you view this mostly as a long term investment where you are willing to spend money year after year until a real market develops.

The question that i am asking myself is: Wouldn't it be better instead of registering hundreds dropped free names or free names and paying tens of thousands for renewals to take that 25K and buy 50 good names which can sustain themselves and cost little to maintain. In the end there would be less risk of loss of capital since the renewal fees are negligible the prices are unlikely to drop long term and at least some ppc revenue is there and reselling them is possible.

Second question: End-User Sales

Are end user sales an effective mean to pay for your reg-fees or even pay for for new purchases?

I don't mean high figure sales but the occasional $200-500 sale for lesser names and maybe low xxxx for good names.

Do you think that with the names that are still available or drop and can be registered for reg-fee you can still build a portfolio which is self sustaining due the occasional end-user sale?

Are the end user sales limited to certain markets? If so which ones?

Third question: My first domain purchases

I spent some time looking at drop lists, and tried to hand-reg a few names. This was just a small experiment, i understand that the names aren't that good really. I didn't look at PPC pricing, google exact searches. I mean i did to confirm that the term was searched but high number of search wasn't a buying criteria.

I just looked for names that would be considered good/attractive if they were english .com versions.

bankowość.com (banking) polish

جليد.com (ice) arabic
مرحاض.com (toilet)
سوقالأوراقالمالية.com (stock exchange? Stock market? Securities? Security market?)
أحجاركريمة.com (gemstone)
كرةالمضرب.com tennis

coréia.com (korea) portuguese
arábia.com (arabia)
prépago.com (prepay)
grãbretanha.com (great britain)
acomodações.com (accomodations)

デザイナーズ.com (designers?) japanese

Some of the names were possibly not translated properly or do do not look attractive to native speakers.

What's your opinion? Is this junk?

thanks

bumblebee man 21st April 2012 11:48 AM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Welcome to the forum!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 123 (Bericht 195660)
So the first question would be:

Do you generate enough income from PPC parking and end-user sales(or other sales) to pay for the yearly reg-fees of your portfolio?

Or do you view this mostly as a long term investment where you are willing to spend money year after year until a real market develops.

The question that i am asking myself is: Wouldn't it be better instead of registering hundreds dropped free names or free names and paying tens of thousands for renewals to take that 25K and buy 50 good names which can sustain themselves and cost little to maintain. In the end there would be less risk of loss of capital since the renewal fees are negligible the prices are unlikely to drop long term and at least some ppc revenue is there and reselling them is possible.

I'd vote for the latter. I'd rather have 50 great names than 500 average ones for the reasons you already mentioned.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 123 (Bericht 195660)
Second question: End-User Sales

Are end user sales an effective mean to pay for your reg-fees or even pay for for new purchases?

I don't mean high figure sales but the occasional $200-500 sale for lesser names and maybe low xxxx for good names.

Do you think that with the names that are still available or drop and can be registered for reg-fee you can still build a portfolio which is self sustaining due the occasional end-user sale?

Are the end user sales limited to certain markets? If so which ones?

It's definitely possible. Actually I'm in overall profit zone right now. Parking revenue and forum sales are only a fraction of total income in my case. It took about a year of learning though.

Markets: Mainly Europe / Latin script in my case but this could change quickly with IDN.IDN for non-Latin.

I'll pass on your third questions to the natives.

Jay 21st April 2012 02:49 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 123 (Bericht 195660)
Wouldn't it be better instead of registering hundreds dropped free names or free names and paying tens of thousands for renewals to take that 25K and buy 50 good names which can sustain themselves and cost little to maintain.

Yes, in theory.

Ryu 21st April 2012 03:26 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by 123 (Bericht 195660)
デザイナーズ.com (designers?) japanese

What's your opinion? Is this junk?

This is transliteration of English "designer's," "designers'" or "designers." It's actually me who dropped the name. I would certainly not say it's a junk as I lived with it for a couple of years. The problem though with this name is that it usually doesn't stand alone, as the standard translation of English designers is デザイナー without ズ(s). In Japanese, we do not generally distinguish singular and plurals though there are some exceptions to the rule.

In my view, デザイナーズ.com is a fine brandable name that could be used for websites of designers shops or about designers' mansions, etc. Unfortunately it does not make enough parking income to cover renewals, or else I would have kept it.

sunsei21 21st April 2012 03:30 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
i don't think there is a one size fits all strategy. best advice is do what is affordable because nobody really knows how the market will pan out just yet .

Ryu 21st April 2012 03:42 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sunsei21 (Bericht 195671)
i don't think there is a one size fits all strategy. best advice is do what is affordable because nobody really knows how the market will pan out just yet .

Very true. And you should be prepared to make lots of mistakes. I've been IDNing for about 5 years and I still reg/catch plenty of bad names. At times I even drop names I caught using snapnames.

idn 21st April 2012 04:32 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryu (Bericht 195670)
Unfortunately it does not make enough parking income to cover renewals, or else I would have kept it.

Is this true for all your domains or do you have plenty of exceptions?

idn 21st April 2012 04:34 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryu (Bericht 195672)
At times I even drop names I caught using snapnames.

Me too. Every year.

Ryu 21st April 2012 04:41 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by idn (Bericht 195677)
Is this true for all your domains or do you have plenty of exceptions?

I keep plenty that earn only a dollar or two a year. But if a name is .com and earns absolutely nothing, I'd be probably dropping the name.


Quote:

Originally Posted by idn (Bericht 195678)
Me too. Every year.

Glad to know I'm not alone.^^ It hurts!

IdnHost 21st April 2012 04:58 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryu (Bericht 195679)
I keep plenty that earn only a dollar or two a year. But if a name is .com and earns absolutely nothing, I'd be probably dropping the name.




Glad to know I'm not alone.^^ It hurts!

Do you guys think once idn.idn is implemented that the parking revenue for .com domains in general is going to jump to the roof or is this shift going to be more of a slow gradual one that might take up to 3-5 years before a decent quality name (ie. office.com) in chinese, hindi, japanese, russian or arabic will earn $100.00+/month?

Ryu 21st April 2012 05:07 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by IdnHost (Bericht 195680)
Do you guys think once idn.idn is implemented that the parking revenue for .com domains in general is going to jump to the roof

No. I don't think so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IdnHost (Bericht 195680)
or is this shift going to be more of a slow gradual one that might take up to 3-5 years before a decent quality name (ie. office.com) in chinese, hindi, japanese, russian or arabic will earn $100.00+/month?

That's what I wish. But it really depends on what you mean by a decent name. After all, I think it's only very good names that would ever make $100.00+/month through parking.

Jay 21st April 2012 05:50 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryu (Bericht 195679)
if a name is .com and earns absolutely nothing, I'd be probably dropping the name.

I think this is generally sound advice. The exception is if there is a good explanation for why a name isn't getting revenue - e.g., from a country with few advertisers. Certainly if a Japanese name wasn't getting a dollar or two, you would think twice about keeping it. But if it is from an emerging market and it is getting a decent number of visitors, that might be a different story.

IdnHost 21st April 2012 05:56 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryu (Bericht 195681)
No. I don't think so.



That's what I wish. But it really depends on what you mean by a decent name. After all, I think it's only very good names that would ever make $100.00+/month through parking.

I would assume that names such as sex,auto,hotels, and other such premium examples in these top 5 scripts would bring in a lot more $ then just $100/month. Call me crazy but i thought the ascii Equivalents were raking in $ xxx bucks a day in their prime.
Or is that just wishful thinking? :)

123 21st April 2012 06:41 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Or is that just wishful thinking
maybe maybe not. i read(not sure if true)

sex.com was making millions per year from type-ins in it's early days. Hotels(or hotel.com?) would pay for itself within a few years(probably not with ppc parking)

I think the problem is that ppc parking revenues are no longer what they used to be so it's hard to make a lot of money with parking today.

But i think a really good idn name could make much more than $100/month if idns become popular.

I am not really an expert when it comes to this as i never had a good revenue generating name before.

ryu,

thank you for the insight.

IdnHost 21st April 2012 06:44 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
at one point I read an article somewhere on the internet that sex.com (ascii) was pulling in approximately $40,000/month.
Based on this logic, i figured eventually there is no reason why a premium idn.idn cannot collect low xxx to mid xxx a day in parking revenue.

using this same logic would mean that a decent idn could easily make $ xx a day in parking revenue assuming of course that the idn market will be at par or more sucessfull in its prime then its counterpart ascii.

squirrel 21st April 2012 06:58 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
IdnHost : premium ASCII at their prime topped 1K a day. Read the article "Master of their domains", I'm pretty sure it mentions cellphone(s).com making 1K a day. Also keep in mind that this article was written 1 year or so before parking peaked.

123 : Some IDNs make more than 100$/month already. Read this forum and you'll find posts where owners were kind enough to share their stats.

Also guys keep in mind that Rev is determined by 3 things: traffic, CTR and CPC.

123 21st April 2012 07:03 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

123 : Some IDNs make more than 100$/month already. Read this forum and you'll find posts where owners were kind enough to share their stats.
yes i already knew that. i wanted to mention that in my previous post. That's why i wrote a really good name could make much more than $100/month.

squirrel 21st April 2012 07:11 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Another thing: there is a difference between a premium domain and a good parking performer. I doubt anyone here would want to develop a typo domain, yet lots of ascii typo names earn their fair share in parking revenues.

To answer the original question : just get quality names. If you want to spend $$ on the after market for what you consider better names, go ahead. If you want to try your luck with hand registration, go ahead. Check the latest figures for registration by script kindly published my mulligan, you'll see there is still room for the total registration in the .com IDN space to grow multiple times.

Lastly, if any of you has had the opportunity to read the comments or talk with older ASCII guys, you'll find that none of them ever complained about having had too many domains. It's quite the opposite actually, some of them wished they had regged more, or did not wasted their time trying to develop big website projects while there was still opportunities to add to their portfolio.

IdnHost 21st April 2012 07:18 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by squirrel (Bericht 195687)
IdnHost : premium ASCII at their prime topped 1K a day. Read the article "Master of their domains", I'm pretty sure it mentions cellphone(s).com making 1K a day. Also keep in mind that this article was written 1 year or so before parking peaked.

123 : Some IDNs make more than 100$/month already. Read this forum and you'll find posts where owners were kind enough to share their stats.

Also guys keep in mind that Rev is determined by 3 things: traffic, CTR and CPC.

I think i stumbled upon that article a year ago as well because it does ring a bell. I am curious however to know how much $ is cellphone(s) within any of the main five or six scripts earning at the moment per month.

123 21st April 2012 07:18 PM

Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by squirrel (Bericht 195689)
Another thing: there is a difference between a premium domain and a good parking performer. I doubt anyone here would want to develop a typo domain, yet lots of ascii typo names earn their fair share in parking revenues.

true. i heard somewhere that a really big portion from ascii parking revenue is from typo traffic sadly. I think typos are a way to get a lot of traffic for some domainers if the good ascii generics are no longer available.

some-typos can generate so much traffic because the real term is a large and developed website and has massive type-in traffic for that reason.

personally i would not want to follow such a strategy... would possibly lead to horrible CTRs and probably harm the income of genuine type-in generics by diluting overall traffic quality.


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