IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > IDN Talk > IDN Newbies

IDN Newbies IDN domain newbie questions like What is an IDN domain, what are idners, how do you use punycode, is there a Japanese sedo etc. Since this is a new market please don't hesitate to ask questions...

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 09:46 AM
123 123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 844
iTrader: (5)
Rep Power: 502
123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road
Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

I just got started with IDNs and registered a couple of names. I found that some "not-too bad" names can still be bought or drop the best are long gone obviously.

My main concern is that there will be eventually a real market for many IDNs but no one knows exactly how long it will take for this market to develop.

which means you will have to pay for renewals in the meantime.

if one builds a portfolio of lets say 500 "somewhat-decent" names you will have to pay $5000/year for at least several years lets say 5 years = 25K in registration fees or even more if it takes longer.

From what i've read most IDNs don't generate enough income to pay for the renewals, the ones who do are usually not available anymore.

The names that i have for example don't really have any type-in traffic. So the chance that they will eventually be able to sustain themselves in the next few years are close to zero IMO.

The re-sale prices here on the board are low often close to reg-fee unless the name is really good.

So the first question would be:

Do you generate enough income from PPC parking and end-user sales(or other sales) to pay for the yearly reg-fees of your portfolio?

Or do you view this mostly as a long term investment where you are willing to spend money year after year until a real market develops.

The question that i am asking myself is: Wouldn't it be better instead of registering hundreds dropped free names or free names and paying tens of thousands for renewals to take that 25K and buy 50 good names which can sustain themselves and cost little to maintain. In the end there would be less risk of loss of capital since the renewal fees are negligible the prices are unlikely to drop long term and at least some ppc revenue is there and reselling them is possible.

Second question: End-User Sales

Are end user sales an effective mean to pay for your reg-fees or even pay for for new purchases?

I don't mean high figure sales but the occasional $200-500 sale for lesser names and maybe low xxxx for good names.

Do you think that with the names that are still available or drop and can be registered for reg-fee you can still build a portfolio which is self sustaining due the occasional end-user sale?

Are the end user sales limited to certain markets? If so which ones?

Third question: My first domain purchases

I spent some time looking at drop lists, and tried to hand-reg a few names. This was just a small experiment, i understand that the names aren't that good really. I didn't look at PPC pricing, google exact searches. I mean i did to confirm that the term was searched but high number of search wasn't a buying criteria.

I just looked for names that would be considered good/attractive if they were english .com versions.

bankowość.com (banking) polish

جليد.com (ice) arabic
مرحاض.com (toilet)
سوقالأوراقالمالية.com (stock exchange? Stock market? Securities? Security market?)
أحجاركريمة.com (gemstone)
كرةالمضرب.com tennis

coréia.com (korea) portuguese
arábia.com (arabia)
prépago.com (prepay)
grãbretanha.com (great britain)
acomodações.com (accomodations)

デザイナーズ.com (designers?) japanese

Some of the names were possibly not translated properly or do do not look attractive to native speakers.

What's your opinion? Is this junk?

thanks

Last edited by 123; 21st April 2012 at 09:52 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 10:48 AM
bumblebee man's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Germany
Posts: 1,620
iTrader: (16)
Rep Power: 2901
bumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura aboutbumblebee man has a spectacular aura about
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Welcome to the forum!

Quote:
Originally Posted by 123 View Post
So the first question would be:

Do you generate enough income from PPC parking and end-user sales(or other sales) to pay for the yearly reg-fees of your portfolio?

Or do you view this mostly as a long term investment where you are willing to spend money year after year until a real market develops.

The question that i am asking myself is: Wouldn't it be better instead of registering hundreds dropped free names or free names and paying tens of thousands for renewals to take that 25K and buy 50 good names which can sustain themselves and cost little to maintain. In the end there would be less risk of loss of capital since the renewal fees are negligible the prices are unlikely to drop long term and at least some ppc revenue is there and reselling them is possible.
I'd vote for the latter. I'd rather have 50 great names than 500 average ones for the reasons you already mentioned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 123 View Post
Second question: End-User Sales

Are end user sales an effective mean to pay for your reg-fees or even pay for for new purchases?

I don't mean high figure sales but the occasional $200-500 sale for lesser names and maybe low xxxx for good names.

Do you think that with the names that are still available or drop and can be registered for reg-fee you can still build a portfolio which is self sustaining due the occasional end-user sale?

Are the end user sales limited to certain markets? If so which ones?
It's definitely possible. Actually I'm in overall profit zone right now. Parking revenue and forum sales are only a fraction of total income in my case. It took about a year of learning though.

Markets: Mainly Europe / Latin script in my case but this could change quickly with IDN.IDN for non-Latin.

I'll pass on your third questions to the natives.
__________________
These are my principles. If you don't like them, I have others. - Groucho Marx
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 01:49 PM
Jay's Avatar
Jay Jay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Where angels fear to tread
Posts: 1,304
iTrader: (23)
Rep Power: 1722
Jay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enough
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by 123 View Post
Wouldn't it be better instead of registering hundreds dropped free names or free names and paying tens of thousands for renewals to take that 25K and buy 50 good names which can sustain themselves and cost little to maintain.
Yes, in theory.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 02:26 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 1005
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by 123 View Post
デザイナーズ.com (designers?) japanese

What's your opinion? Is this junk?
This is transliteration of English "designer's," "designers'" or "designers." It's actually me who dropped the name. I would certainly not say it's a junk as I lived with it for a couple of years. The problem though with this name is that it usually doesn't stand alone, as the standard translation of English designers is デザイナー without ズ(s). In Japanese, we do not generally distinguish singular and plurals though there are some exceptions to the rule.

In my view, デザイナーズ.com is a fine brandable name that could be used for websites of designers shops or about designers' mansions, etc. Unfortunately it does not make enough parking income to cover renewals, or else I would have kept it.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 02:30 PM
sunsei21's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Internet
Posts: 714
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 592
sunsei21 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to sunsei21 Send a message via Skype™ to sunsei21
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

i don't think there is a one size fits all strategy. best advice is do what is affordable because nobody really knows how the market will pan out just yet .
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 02:42 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 1005
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsei21 View Post
i don't think there is a one size fits all strategy. best advice is do what is affordable because nobody really knows how the market will pan out just yet .
Very true. And you should be prepared to make lots of mistakes. I've been IDNing for about 5 years and I still reg/catch plenty of bad names. At times I even drop names I caught using snapnames.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 03:32 PM
idn's Avatar
idn idn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Global Headquarters of the Dot Net Skepticism Alliance
Posts: 3,156
iTrader: (38)
Rep Power: 1268
idn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
Unfortunately it does not make enough parking income to cover renewals, or else I would have kept it.
Is this true for all your domains or do you have plenty of exceptions?
__________________
NativeDomains.com
XBuild.com
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 03:34 PM
idn's Avatar
idn idn is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Global Headquarters of the Dot Net Skepticism Alliance
Posts: 3,156
iTrader: (38)
Rep Power: 1268
idn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished roadidn is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
At times I even drop names I caught using snapnames.
Me too. Every year.
__________________
NativeDomains.com
XBuild.com
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 03:41 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 1005
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
Is this true for all your domains or do you have plenty of exceptions?
I keep plenty that earn only a dollar or two a year. But if a name is .com and earns absolutely nothing, I'd be probably dropping the name.


Quote:
Originally Posted by idn View Post
Me too. Every year.
Glad to know I'm not alone.^^ It hurts!
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 03:58 PM
IdnHost's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 811
iTrader: (11)
Rep Power: 566
IdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
I keep plenty that earn only a dollar or two a year. But if a name is .com and earns absolutely nothing, I'd be probably dropping the name.




Glad to know I'm not alone.^^ It hurts!
Do you guys think once idn.idn is implemented that the parking revenue for .com domains in general is going to jump to the roof or is this shift going to be more of a slow gradual one that might take up to 3-5 years before a decent quality name (ie. office.com) in chinese, hindi, japanese, russian or arabic will earn $100.00+/month?

Last edited by IdnHost; 21st April 2012 at 04:00 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 04:07 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 1005
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdnHost View Post
Do you guys think once idn.idn is implemented that the parking revenue for .com domains in general is going to jump to the roof
No. I don't think so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IdnHost View Post
or is this shift going to be more of a slow gradual one that might take up to 3-5 years before a decent quality name (ie. office.com) in chinese, hindi, japanese, russian or arabic will earn $100.00+/month?
That's what I wish. But it really depends on what you mean by a decent name. After all, I think it's only very good names that would ever make $100.00+/month through parking.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 04:50 PM
Jay's Avatar
Jay Jay is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Where angels fear to tread
Posts: 1,304
iTrader: (23)
Rep Power: 1722
Jay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enoughJay will become famous soon enough
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
if a name is .com and earns absolutely nothing, I'd be probably dropping the name.
I think this is generally sound advice. The exception is if there is a good explanation for why a name isn't getting revenue - e.g., from a country with few advertisers. Certainly if a Japanese name wasn't getting a dollar or two, you would think twice about keeping it. But if it is from an emerging market and it is getting a decent number of visitors, that might be a different story.

Last edited by Jay; 21st April 2012 at 04:51 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 04:56 PM
IdnHost's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 811
iTrader: (11)
Rep Power: 566
IdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished road
Talking Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
No. I don't think so.



That's what I wish. But it really depends on what you mean by a decent name. After all, I think it's only very good names that would ever make $100.00+/month through parking.
I would assume that names such as sex,auto,hotels, and other such premium examples in these top 5 scripts would bring in a lot more $ then just $100/month. Call me crazy but i thought the ascii Equivalents were raking in $ xxx bucks a day in their prime.
Or is that just wishful thinking?

Last edited by IdnHost; 21st April 2012 at 04:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 05:41 PM
123 123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 844
iTrader: (5)
Rep Power: 502
123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Or is that just wishful thinking
maybe maybe not. i read(not sure if true)

sex.com was making millions per year from type-ins in it's early days. Hotels(or hotel.com?) would pay for itself within a few years(probably not with ppc parking)

I think the problem is that ppc parking revenues are no longer what they used to be so it's hard to make a lot of money with parking today.

But i think a really good idn name could make much more than $100/month if idns become popular.

I am not really an expert when it comes to this as i never had a good revenue generating name before.

ryu,

thank you for the insight.

Last edited by 123; 21st April 2012 at 05:47 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 05:44 PM
IdnHost's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 811
iTrader: (11)
Rep Power: 566
IdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

at one point I read an article somewhere on the internet that sex.com (ascii) was pulling in approximately $40,000/month.
Based on this logic, i figured eventually there is no reason why a premium idn.idn cannot collect low xxx to mid xxx a day in parking revenue.

using this same logic would mean that a decent idn could easily make $ xx a day in parking revenue assuming of course that the idn market will be at par or more sucessfull in its prime then its counterpart ascii.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 05:58 PM
squirrel's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940
iTrader: (11)
Rep Power: 7109
squirrel is a name known to all
squirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to all
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

IdnHost : premium ASCII at their prime topped 1K a day. Read the article "Master of their domains", I'm pretty sure it mentions cellphone(s).com making 1K a day. Also keep in mind that this article was written 1 year or so before parking peaked.

123 : Some IDNs make more than 100$/month already. Read this forum and you'll find posts where owners were kind enough to share their stats.

Also guys keep in mind that Rev is determined by 3 things: traffic, CTR and CPC.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 06:03 PM
123 123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 844
iTrader: (5)
Rep Power: 502
123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
123 : Some IDNs make more than 100$/month already. Read this forum and you'll find posts where owners were kind enough to share their stats.
yes i already knew that. i wanted to mention that in my previous post. That's why i wrote a really good name could make much more than $100/month.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 06:11 PM
squirrel's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940
iTrader: (11)
Rep Power: 7109
squirrel is a name known to all
squirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to all
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Another thing: there is a difference between a premium domain and a good parking performer. I doubt anyone here would want to develop a typo domain, yet lots of ascii typo names earn their fair share in parking revenues.

To answer the original question : just get quality names. If you want to spend $$ on the after market for what you consider better names, go ahead. If you want to try your luck with hand registration, go ahead. Check the latest figures for registration by script kindly published my mulligan, you'll see there is still room for the total registration in the .com IDN space to grow multiple times.

Lastly, if any of you has had the opportunity to read the comments or talk with older ASCII guys, you'll find that none of them ever complained about having had too many domains. It's quite the opposite actually, some of them wished they had regged more, or did not wasted their time trying to develop big website projects while there was still opportunities to add to their portfolio.
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 06:18 PM
IdnHost's Avatar
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: canada
Posts: 811
iTrader: (11)
Rep Power: 566
IdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished roadIdnHost is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
IdnHost : premium ASCII at their prime topped 1K a day. Read the article "Master of their domains", I'm pretty sure it mentions cellphone(s).com making 1K a day. Also keep in mind that this article was written 1 year or so before parking peaked.

123 : Some IDNs make more than 100$/month already. Read this forum and you'll find posts where owners were kind enough to share their stats.

Also guys keep in mind that Rev is determined by 3 things: traffic, CTR and CPC.
I think i stumbled upon that article a year ago as well because it does ring a bell. I am curious however to know how much $ is cellphone(s) within any of the main five or six scripts earning at the moment per month.
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 21st April 2012, 06:18 PM
123 123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 844
iTrader: (5)
Rep Power: 502
123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road123 is on a distinguished road
Re: Question - Building a self sustaining portfolio

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
Another thing: there is a difference between a premium domain and a good parking performer. I doubt anyone here would want to develop a typo domain, yet lots of ascii typo names earn their fair share in parking revenues.
true. i heard somewhere that a really big portion from ascii parking revenue is from typo traffic sadly. I think typos are a way to get a lot of traffic for some domainers if the good ascii generics are no longer available.

some-typos can generate so much traffic because the real term is a large and developed website and has massive type-in traffic for that reason.

personally i would not want to follow such a strategy... would possibly lead to horrible CTRs and probably harm the income of genuine type-in generics by diluting overall traffic quality.

Last edited by 123; 21st April 2012 at 06:19 PM..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 07:28 AM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54