IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > IDN Discussions > New gTLDs

New gTLDs IDN or ascii, use this forum to discuss the new gTLDs

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 02:20 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2216
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Seems the consensus is we have two turds in the punchbowl.

Anyone have any better suggestions that "perhaps" could be suggested to Verisign to ammend their application to?

Seems at very least the first letter of both .com and .net should be the "same" as they did with Korean for a bit of uniformity to match the word "dot".

In retrospect, a big oversight Verisign didn't bother to consult their customers, or even see what the community view and expectation was at wikipedia....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN.IDN
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 02:30 PM
Semi-retired
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,531
iTrader: (57)
Rep Power: 3455
alpha has disabled reputation
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc View Post
Anyone have any better suggestions that "perhaps" could be suggested to Verisign to ammend their application to?..
I'm pretty sure that they can't just amend their application.. that would be like the applicant for .cars deciding now that actually he'd rather have .automobiles

the way the process has been run, with making sure that the list is private until reveal.. I can't exactly see icann saying, "sure of course you can change your application"... there is an argument for correcting a typo, but not for swapping out a poor choice for something else.

I'd rather it be different, but lets face it, this is it. They've made their bed, now they sleep in it. There is no process for allowing a poor decision to be corrected, other than wait until next time and apply again
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 02:45 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4524
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha View Post
There is no process for allowing a poor decision to be corrected, other than wait until next time and apply again
Well, at least somebody has got it.

You either dump your domains cheap or wait it out.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 03:12 PM
Semi-retired
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,531
iTrader: (57)
Rep Power: 3455
alpha has disabled reputation
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
Well, at least somebody has got it.

You either dump your domains cheap or wait it out.
But I can't see a scenario where verisign would apply again for a better choice. Let's say it is 5 years away until it opens up again, what will they do until then with the current choices, just let them gather dust, and wait 5 yrs to apply for something still-not-as-good-as-gongsi?

The alternative is to promote and market the hell out of them now for 5 yrs and then cannibalize all that work with a replacement extn in 5 yrs time. Remember, ironically, this replacement extn will probably then break the "too similar to existing gTLD" and then not be allowed anyway.

It is a fuck up of epic proportions, and worse than that, I really don't see a way back from this, other than to abandon the current choices, write it off as a bad day at the office, then try again in 5 yrs time. To do that will take some balls, it will be far easier to just continue down this path and take them live.. but doing so will commit them to a place with no return and no opportunity to come back another day with a better choice.

If I was mainly into Chinese IDNs, I'd be crying into my beer right now, but as it happens I actively avoided chinese on the grounds I don't trust the govt to do the right thing for the registrants. My spidey-sense was spot-on albeit I mis-identified the villains.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 03:13 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2216
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha View Post
There is no process for allowing a poor decision to be corrected, other than wait until next time and apply again
Perhaps not, but doesn't hurt to investigate all possiblities, especially when you have near 100% of your customers crying "foul".

Might be a mute point if there are no "better" translations anyway....so still asking: Are there any better choices?

Last edited by bwhhisc; 16th June 2012 at 03:20 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 03:22 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4524
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha View Post
If I was mainly into Chinese IDNs, I'd be crying into my beer right now, but as it happens I actively avoided chinese on the grounds I don't trust the govt to do the right thing for the registrants. My spidey-sense was spot-on albeit I mis-identified the villains.
We have a shed load, but are also well spread in other areas.

Russian - Big Win
Arabic - Big Win
Hindi - Bloody Miracles
Japanese - Big Win
China - Still think most will use ASCII dot com, but the process is underway and I for one am happy to sit it out and wait.
Hebrew - Nada
Korean - Nada
Thai - Nice but really only a bit of bling.

On the plus side Verisign know they have a fight on in China, so they will hit it hard with their advertising budget. That might actually work out to be more important than the extension itself.
__________________
All offers to sell are void.

Last edited by Rubber Duck; 16th June 2012 at 03:23 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 03:31 PM
Veteran
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 7,495
iTrader: (65)
Rep Power: 2693
blastfromthepast will become famous soon enoughblastfromthepast will become famous soon enoughblastfromthepast will become famous soon enoughblastfromthepast will become famous soon enoughblastfromthepast will become famous soon enoughblastfromthepast will become famous soon enoughblastfromthepast will become famous soon enoughblastfromthepast will become famous soon enoughblastfromthepast will become famous soon enough
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Clearly the Chinese government pressured everyone involved, and won. That's all folks.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 03:36 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2216
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
Clearly the Chinese government pressured everyone involved, and won. That's all folks.
+1
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 03:55 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2216
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Took a look over at the Chinese domain forum...they are baffled by Verisign choices, especially .net.

http://translate.google.com/translat...com%2F&act=url


Unlike Mr Seng calling them "creative", at IDNClub the native speaker calls them "unintelligible" if translation is correct.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:03 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 993
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha View Post
I really don't see a way back from this, other than to abandon the current choices, write it off as a bad day at the office, then try again in 5 yrs time.
I agree. I think it was a bad decision for Verisign to apply anything that starts with transliterations of the "dot" part instead of the "com" bit. If Verisign applied for ".ドットコム" (.dotcom) in Japanese, I would have been quite disappointed. I just can't see that would appeal the local population.

If they couldn't apply for one char IDN gtlds in Chinese and Korean, I think it would have been wise for Verisign just to wait and spend whatever money they've got to influence ICANN to make the change for the next round, so that they can apply for the 1 char IDN gtlds in 4-5 years.

.看 should have so much better chance than .点看 to be adopted by the Chinese people.

Right now, I think the best chance they have is to get ICANN change the rule over the next few years and apply for .看 in the next round as the replacement of .点看. The same probably applies for Korean IDN .com and .net.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:17 PM
squirrel's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 2,940
iTrader: (11)
Rep Power: 7097
squirrel is a name known to all
squirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to allsquirrel is a name known to all
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

The dotAsia guys worked hard to bring a compelling case for single char CJK tlds. Verisign didnt seem much involved in that. No fast track, typo app, no variant in any of the apps..the big picture is puzzling
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:19 PM
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 7,864
iTrader: (60)
Rep Power: 2216
bwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enoughbwhhisc will become famous soon enough
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
I think it would have been wise for Verisign just to wait and spend whatever money they've got to influence ICANN to make the change for the next round, so that they can apply for the 1 char IDN gtlds in 4-5 years.

.看 should have so much better chance than .点看 to be adopted by the Chinese people.

Right now, I think the best chance they have is to get ICANN change the rule over the next few years and apply for .看 in the next round as the replacement of .点看. The same probably applies for Korean IDN .com and .net.
Good thoughts Ryu. And maybe push for application of single character 网 for .net.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:27 PM
TrafficDomainer's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,070
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 833
TrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Is there a possibility for a class action lawsuit against Verisign for not acting in the best interest of registrants and forcing them legally to challenge ccnic? I think it is far fetched, but thought I will ask any way.
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:27 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 993
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc View Post
Good thoughts Ryu. And maybe push for application of single character 网 for .net.
Well, Verisign didn't go for .点网 and I think it was not without reason. Basically I think they have decided to avoid all possible conflicts with Chinese governments.

I discussed about .公司 and .网 about three years ago that China would block Verigin from claiming their right over .公司 or .网 as the equivalents of .com and .net. I think that's exactly what happened behind the scenes.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:41 PM
mgrohan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,205
iTrader: (25)
Rep Power: 1355
mgrohan will become famous soon enoughmgrohan will become famous soon enoughmgrohan will become famous soon enoughmgrohan will become famous soon enoughmgrohan will become famous soon enoughmgrohan will become famous soon enoughmgrohan will become famous soon enough
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
Well, Verisign didn't go for .点网 and I think it was not without reason. Basically I think they have decided to avoid all possible conflicts with Chinese governments.

I discussed about .公司 and .网 about three years ago that China would block Verigin from claiming their right over .公司 or .网 as the equivalents of .com and .net. I think that's exactly what happened behind the scenes.
Would you be happy with .会社 for .com in Japanese?

Don't see why people are talking about using company/network (公司 & .网). Verisign applied for transliterations of .com/.net in all languages.
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:49 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 993
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgrohan View Post
Would you be happy with .会社 for .com in Japanese?[/U].
Nope.

However, given that .com.cn has been aliased to .公司.cn, I think it would not have been bad for registrants of current IDN.com to get .公司 as one of the .IDN options to activate in addition to .看, etc.
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:52 PM
Semi-retired
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,531
iTrader: (57)
Rep Power: 3455
alpha has disabled reputation
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
Nope.

However, given that .com.cn has been aliased to .公司.cn, I think it would not have been bad for registrants of current IDN.com to get .公司 as one of the .IDN options to activate in addition to .看, etc.
If life was fair, and logic dictated the decision then yes you'd expect that outcome.
But sometimes the bully wins

Last edited by alpha; 16th June 2012 at 04:55 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 04:58 PM
Ryu's Avatar
Ryu Ryu is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,158
iTrader: (14)
Rep Power: 993
Ryu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished roadRyu is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
The dotAsia guys worked hard to bring a compelling case for single char CJK tlds. Verisign didnt seem much involved in that. No fast track, typo app, no variant in any of the apps..the big picture is puzzling
Not allowing 1 char IDN gtlds for CJK (excluding Japanese Hiragana and Katakana) is pure ignorance or arrogance of the non-CJK world.

In fact, I believe that's the biggest cause of the current Chinese/Korean .com/.net tragedy. Not Verisign's "poor" choices, imho.

Last edited by Ryu; 16th June 2012 at 04:59 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #19 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 05:01 PM
TrafficDomainer's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,070
iTrader: (10)
Rep Power: 833
TrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished roadTrafficDomainer is on a distinguished road
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
Nope.

However, given that .com.cn has been aliased to .公司.cn, I think it would not have been bad for registrants of current IDN.com to get .公司 as one of the .IDN options to activate in addition to .看, etc.
+1

As mentioned before, the fact that CCNIC maps.公司.cn to .com.cn should make a very strong case that .公司 is the best equivalence for .com (and it should be Verisign's IP by default) given that there are no real transliterations for .com/.net in Chinese available anyway.

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 16th June 2012 at 05:02 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #20 (permalink)  
Old 16th June 2012, 05:04 PM
Semi-retired
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,531
iTrader: (57)
Rep Power: 3455
alpha has disabled reputation
Re: Is there a better choice for .com and .net in Chinese?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryu View Post
Not allowing 1 char IDN gtlds for CJK (excluding Japanese Hiragana and Katakana) is pure ignorance or arrogance of the non-CJK world.

In fact, I believe that's the biggest cause of the current Chinese/Korean .com/.net tragedy. Not Verisign's "poor" choices, imho.
Wait. So korean com/net choices are a "lose" too.. I though we had that down as a "win" ?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:58 AM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54