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Old 25th May 2006, 11:24 AM
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The big unasked Real Estate Question

Everybody is going crackers over Real Estate and we all know that means money, but which terms are we getting and are they most valuable?

The Real Estate market is broken down into two main sectors, sales and rental. The term we use in English probably covers both adequately, but this may not be the case elsewhere.

Which market generates more commission, sale or rental? Well that is a tough question and the there is no straightforward answer. Much depends on whether people generally rent or buy their living accommodation. In Britain and American, there is a huge emphasis on buying, but in much of the world, the reality is that a large section of the population, often the majority, rent.

The commissions earnt from rental on a given property over an extended period are generally much higher than on sales. Sales occur infrequently and commissions are small in relation to sales value. Rental is an ongoing thing and commissions are very high in relation to turnover.

Rental will generally be much more significant in Urban Areas and may well be the norm in parts of Asia. If the proportion of rental properties is comparatively high, the fees generated will dwarf those of property sales.

This a question. I don't know the answer, but I am sure some of you can provide useful feedback.
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 25th May 2006 at 12:02 PM..
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:29 AM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
The Real Estate market is broken down into two main sectors, sales and rental. Which market generates more commission, sale or rental?
My feeling is that realestate "sales" is the big ticket. You generally see the full $$$ transaction when sale closes, (since there is usually some type of long term financing) and therefore room for lots of commission and fees to be paid out at that time.

In the world of rental, the best you see if first and last month rent/security deposit maybe, then just monthly rental fees. No big cash changing hands in one transaction, so no immediate large commissions or payouts possible. The winner is the apartment owner but he takes his money over the long haul, plus appreciation on real estate value, and tax benefits.

For domaining, the question really becomes will the customer do a computer search for apartments or rentals. And will real estate sales continue to be put up online. Answer to both I think is yes, but still think that the print media (newspapers and realestate magazines) are going to be stronger for the short term, especially where there is not the proliferation of computers and web availablity.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 25th May 2006 at 11:36 AM..
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:32 AM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Well I don't know the answer either, but for the sake of a few bucks a couple of months ago i did register:

Taipei House for Rent
Kaohsiung House for Rent
Taichung House for Rent
Tainan House for Rent

..just in case renting was a big earner.

I too would be interested in the situation in China, Japan & Russia
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:36 AM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
My feeling is that realestate "sales" is the big ticket. You generally see the full $$$ transaction when sale closes, (since there is usually some type of long term financing) and therefore room for lots of commission and fees to be paid out at that time.

In the world of rental, the best you see if first and last month rent/security deposit maybe, then just monthly rental fees. No big cash changing hands in one transaction, so no immediate money to be made.
Yes, but if rents are between 5 and 10% of property value and commissions are 10-15% on rents, over twenty years, on a given property over 20years those commission will be about 10-30% of the value of the property, wheras if the property is only sold once every twenty years, then commissions over the same period will only be 2-3%. Moreover, if there is a constant turnover over landlands and tenants the advertising effort is likely to be more intense.
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:48 AM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Yes, but if rents are between 5 and 10% of property value and commissions are 10-15% on rents, over twenty years, on a given property over 20years those commission will be about 10-30% of the value of the property, wheras if the property is only sold once every twenty years, then commissions over the same period will only be 2-3%. Moreover, if there is a constant turnover over landlands and tenants the advertising effort is likely to be more intense.
Like I said the property owner is the big winner. I think it is just sheer numbers, there are probably 20 real estate agents for every 1 apartment rental agent at least in the US.

Real Estate Agents need information daily. They also need to stay up with "everday" activity and current listings so the internet is more important to their personal business. A lot of real estate deals go down right at listing these days, particularly those that might erroneously priced a bit soft.
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:50 AM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
My feeling is that realestate "sales" is the big ticket. You generally see the full $$$ transaction when sale closes, (since there is usually some type of long term financing) and therefore room for lots of commission and fees to be paid out at that time.

In the world of rental, the best you see if first and last month rent/security deposit maybe, then just monthly rental fees. No big cash changing hands in one transaction, so no immediate large commissions or payouts possible. The winner is the apartment owner but he takes his money over the long haul, plus appreciation on real estate value, and tax benefits.

For domaining, the question really becomes will the customer do a computer search for apartments or rentals. And will real estate sales continue to be put up online. Answer to both I think is yes, but still think that the print media (newspapers and realestate magazines) are going to be stronger for the short term, especially where there is not the proliferation of computers and web availablity.
If major capital cities around the world are anything like London, then I can tell you that there are more people renting than owning, and there are more people looking for apartments than there are apartments.

When they come up for rent, they disappear in a matter of hours. This is where the web has the advantage and newspapers are utterly useless.
The sales cycle for a "sale" can be long and drawn out. But for rental, as I said it could be hours. You couldn't print money quicker.

As you move out of main cities, I'm sure the picture changes.

But, we're just guessing, lets wait for the natives to tell us we are wrong.

Last edited by alpha; 25th May 2006 at 11:53 AM..
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Old 25th May 2006, 11:57 AM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Make no mistake I believe the internet is the future of shopping and purchasing, way beyond what we can even imagine. Our company uses the internet for nearly 100% of shopping and comparitave pricing. We go online even to compare daily lumber prices at Lowes vs. Home Depot. At $1 a sheet of plywood, or .10 on a board foot of lumber, thats a lot of money on even a small truckload!

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Old 25th May 2006, 04:26 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Still waiting for some non-Anglosaxon perceptions of the Real Estate/Rental markets particularly in Asian Countries.

Further, I believe that Rent.com was, although not officially the biggest domain sale of all time. Ebay paid $415 million for the company, but in no way could that be justified on turnover or profits.

What large documented sales do we have for Real Estate domains or sites.
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Old 25th May 2006, 04:34 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Still waiting for some non-Anglosaxon perceptions of the Real Estate/Rental markets particularly in Asian Countries.



It's always 'OPEN HOUSE' as real estate goes online The Internet has become a powerful tool for people looking to buy or sell a home. Traffic on real estate websites jumped 8% in the past year - double the growth rate of Internet traffic overall. Here are the most popular sites and the number of visitors:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/indust...e-online_x.htm

Quote:
March 2006 (in millions) Pct. change from 2005
Homestore.com Network 9.6 -7%
HomeGain.com 4.8 NA
AOL Real Estate 4.0 17%
MSN Real Estate 3.7 NA
Rent.com 2.9 -13%
RealtyTrac 2.9 38%
Apartments.com 2.4 16%
Zillow.com 2.3 NA
ServiceMagic 2.1 40%
Yahoo Real Estate 1.8 -4%
HouseValues sites 1.8 11%
HPCInteractive (ApartmentGuide) 1.8 NA
Century 21 1.8 25%
ForRent.com sites 1.7 3%
Re/Max International 1.6 NA
All real estate sites 38.0 8%
Total Internet audience 171.4 4%
Source: ComScore Media Metrix


By Noelle Knox, USA TODAY
For six months, Nancy Teer-Sims tried selling her parents' home in Durham, N.C., with a real estate agent. The results: few showings, no bids. So when the agent's contract expired in December, Teer-Sims dumped the agent, cut the asking price and listed the home on five websites, including eBay, Craigslist and ForSaleByOwner.com.

"By selling it ourselves, we could lower the price by $50,000," she says, because she wouldn't have to pay the standard 6% commission. In four months, she's shown the house 10 times and had three offers.

Though the offers so far were too low, she's amazed by the flood of responses: 1,400 visitors to her website (www.43beverly.com) and dozens of e-mail inquiries from people interested in the property.

"It's been remarkable, the feedback," says Teer-Sims, 49, a manager of small online companies.

Her story illustrates how the breadth of information now available on the Internet is shifting the balance of power in the real estate industry, giving home buyers and sellers more control over the deal than ever before and fueling competition among agents.
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Old 25th May 2006, 04:48 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Yes, but one of the interesting things I noted when sifting through this, is the the seven Tokyo Wards that were booked out by a Real Estate company for 不動産 were actually booked out 住宅 for the same wards on the same day. Now isn't that a coincidence.

I have also noticed that there is something queer about Japanese Overture. I have terms that buckets full of it but no traffic and interesting nothing on Google Trends either. Yes, we all use it but frankly I am not sure we should trust it. If you look at the bid tools, the terms perform much the same, and this tool is much more reliable.

Ebay paid $415 Million for Rent.com whose annual turnover at the time was very small indeed cannot remember the exact figures, but I think probably half the worth of the company could be attributed to the domain. It is never given that accolade, but this was this highest value domain sale in history, by a very long way indeed!
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Old 25th May 2006, 04:54 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Yes, but one of the interesting things I noted when sifting through this, is the the seven Tokyo Wards that were booked out by a Real Estate company for 不動産 were actually booked out 住宅 for the same wards on the same day. Now isn't that a coincidence.

I have also noticed that there is something queer about Japanese Overture. I have terms that buckets full of it but no traffic and interesting nothing on Google Trends either. Yes, we all use it but frankly I am not sure we should trust it. If you look at the bid tools, the terms perform much the same, and this tool is much more reliable.

I have a quetion is this thread a attempt to suggest that 住宅 is better than 不動産 ?, because if it is i could have sworn 5 or 6 people have already spoke on this and you have even stated that 不動産 is the main term .

The coincidence is that the name of there company Ends with " Housing " so that would lead me to believe they are a " Housing " company , So it would be in there best interest to own both Terms

And i agree the bids are the way to go !! If companies are paying big bucks for the terms they will pay big bucks for the Name IMO
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Old 25th May 2006, 05:12 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegenius1
I have a quetion is this thread a attempt to suggest that 住宅 is better than 不動産 ?, because if it is i could have sworn 5 or 6 people have already spoke on this and you have even stated that 不動産 is the main term .

And i agree the bids are the way to go !! If companies are paying big bucks for the terms they will pay big bucks for the Name IMO
No, it is not. We have established that 不動産 is the term that relates to property sales. What we are trying to establish is what proportion of homes are actually owner occupied and what the relationship are between the Selling of Property, and the Rental of property. It may well be that you term covers both areas, I have to say that I do not know, but I would like more feedback from those that do.
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Old 25th May 2006, 05:13 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

I'll share my expertise in this market.

You won't get the bulk of the money. The landlord always makes the most.



Anyways:

You'll get listing fees for real estate however if you want a commission you'll have to get representatives in china/japan to show the property. Someone has to show them the property and get them to sign. It is the brokers job to do this. Thus, the job is not complete simply by listing them on a site.
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Old 25th May 2006, 05:24 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
I'll share my expertise in this market.

You won't get the bulk of the money. The landlord always makes the most.
That is the nature of commission. If you were selling a house on behalf of the owner you wouldn't end up with the bulk of the proceeds either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Anyways:

You'll get listing fees for real estate however if you want a commission you'll have to get representatives in china/japan to show the property. Someone has to show them the property and get them to sign. It is the brokers job to do this. Thus, the job is not complete simply by listing them on a site.
Not quite sure I have got this bit. If you are selling PPC then your Client is the Agent or Broker or whatever you would like to call him. It is difficult to understand how this differs from here except if you suggesting that you have to have an Agent and a third party broker as well?

The job was never going to be just complete by listing on a site. Whether, selling or renting references of one kind or another would have to be taken up and legal agreements entered into. I think it is generally recognised that many services cannot be fully delivered in a virtual environment. It is the same when you are getting your car repaired.
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Old 25th May 2006, 05:32 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

I'm in the business...

The job cannot be completed by you. Someone still has to be in china/japan to show the property and sign.
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Old 25th May 2006, 05:39 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Still waiting for some non-Anglosaxon perceptions of the Real Estate/Rental markets particularly in Asian Countries.

Further, I believe that Rent.com was, although not officially the biggest domain sale of all time. Ebay paid $415 million for the company, but in no way could that be justified on turnover or profits.

What large documented sales do we have for Real Estate domains or sites.
Real estate speculation in Hong Kong is a national pasttime. It's built-in to the DNA of residents and a way of life. You see an old friend and you talk about the property market. It's one of those things.

There've been frequent articles about the current speculation going on in the US, like in Las Vegas, but they can't hold a candle to what goes on in HK.

It's not uncommon to find people juggling 3-4 properties with barely enough cash flow left over to live. And during busts, many of these people lose their properties, only to build up cash and throw the dice again during the next boom.

Stand in line for the new Xbox or PSP? No way -- people line up for property lotteries held by developers.

Some even are specialists in flipping their place in queue while lining up for these lotteries.

There's no capital gains tax in Hong Kong and real estate brokerage fee is small and negotiable, so that's probably a driving force for this behavior.

In China there is a capital gains tax and a minimum holding period of 2 years to avoid another tax -- this is one of the 'cooling' measures the government has implemented to try to curb speculation. From what I see in Shanghai, it hasn't done that much...

And if they decide to relax these measures? BOOM -- it becomes HK on a much grander scale.
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Old 25th May 2006, 05:50 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Great info Gamma
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Old 25th May 2006, 06:18 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Over here, free or semi-free internet listing outfits like Craigslist have eliminated brokers almost entirely in rentals, and are well on their way to eliminating brokers for sales. That's the trend, and the trend does not look good for the useless middlemen that brokers are.
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Old 25th May 2006, 06:29 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

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Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
Over here, free or semi-free internet listing outfits like Craigslist have eliminated brokers almost entirely in rentals, and are well on their way to eliminating brokers for sales. That's the trend, and the trend does not look good for the useless middlemen that brokers are.
I was waiting for you to answer

His opinion is with mine and we both have expertise in this area.


The only way around it is to have your OWN BROKERS FOR YOUR REAL ESTATE SITE AND MAKE A COMPANY. However alot of landlords now just cut out the middleman. Landlords just list for free on craigslist. So the middleman is virtually eliminated.
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Old 25th May 2006, 06:37 PM
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Re: The big unasked Real Estate Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
The only way around it is to have your OWN BROKERS FOR YOUR REAL ESTATE SITE AND MAKE A COMPANY. However alot of landlords now just cut out the middleman. Landlords just list for free on craigslist. So the middleman is virtually eliminated.
That's correct.

You'd think that beyong Craigslist, at the high end, brokers would still be relevant. But no. Highend real estate developments are now taking out ads in glossy magazines themselves, and showing up with their own websites with videos and previews. In some cases their pocket brokers are in on it, but these are not your regular real estate brokers.

Example: http://www.50gramercyparknorth.com/residences.html

The internet has almost eliminated the stock broker as a profession, it will all but eliminate the real estate broker.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 25th May 2006 at 06:42 PM..
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