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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 30th November 2012, 09:09 PM
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Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

http://domainincite.com/11185-verisi...ian-registries

http://www.icann.org/en/news/corresp...ann-01oct12-en
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Old 30th November 2012, 11:06 PM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

interesting doc. Foot note 3 says VRSN confirmed to the registrar working group it would alias.
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Old 30th November 2012, 11:59 PM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
interesting doc. Foot note 3 says VRSN confirmed to the registrar working group it would alias.
Very interesting. A pleasant surprise, actually. Here is an excerpt from the doc:

In the case of the applications for transliterations of .com and .net, VeriSign Inc. helpfully and openly communicated to APTLD that its intent was to “partially”(see footnote 3) map the new gTLDs to the existing .com and .net registries.

Footnote 3: “Partially”, in the sense that not all registrations in the existing TLDs would be automatically created in the transliterated TLDs, but rather would be activated upon application by the existing registrant.

However, further in the main text:

Once again, while VeriSign Inc. helpfully and openly communicated its intentions to APTLD members prior to the establishment of the WG, it should be noted that the actual applications received by ICANN for transliterations of .com and .net do not expressly state the intention to bundle these transliterations to the existing TLDs.

So we aren't the only ones to notice that Verisign said nothing about aliasing in their applications.

I'm too lazy to dig through the archives, but it seems to me that this is the first time in more than a year that Verisign has confirmed their plans to alias.

So happy holidays!

Avtal
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Old 1st December 2012, 12:10 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Nothing but good news IMO.

If i understand verisign’s plans for these .com transliterations it is not clear how they can cause confusion.

From Chuck Gomes, Verisign VP of Policy and Compliance:


“Let me use our own plans for IDN versions of .com and .net as an example.

Our current plans that we have communicated to our customers and others is as follows:

Second level registrants for any .com or .net domain names will have the right to activate their second-level name for any IDN versions of the corresponding .com or .net name and no one else will be allowed to do that.

All second level registrations for IDN versions of .com or .net will be associated with their corresponding ASCII .com or .net as applicable.

In essence, the result will be that all active second level domain names for .com or .net (ASCII or IDN) will have the same registrant.

For any that are not activated, they will be unavailable to others.

I don’t think there should be any user confusion in the DNS in this approach. Do you?"

END

Last edited by bwhhisc; 1st December 2012 at 12:12 AM..
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Old 1st December 2012, 12:43 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc View Post
From Chuck Gomes, Verisign VP of Policy and Compliance:
...
I like the quote, but I haven't been able to figure out where it is from. Is it recent?

Avtal
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Old 1st December 2012, 12:53 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

That's Chuck in an email exchange during his time as the GNSO chair
http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-idng/msg00232.html
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Old 1st December 2012, 03:14 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
That's Chuck in an email exchange during his time as the GNSO chair
http://forum.icann.org/lists/gnso-idng/msg00232.html
Thanks! So the quote is from December 2009. The problem is, Verisign sometimes changes its mind. For instance, they said at one point that they planned to apply for .com and .net in all scripts, but then later they decided to apply for fewer than a dozen.

So I am trying to keep track of Verisign's latest statements on the subject of aliasing. The statement in the APTLD document seems to be the most recent, but even it is several months old (the APTLD Working Group was established in early July 2012, and they say that they received their information from Verisign prior to the WG's establishment). But the good news is that it seems to confirm Chuck Gomes' earlier statements.

Anyway, less important that what Verisign has said, is what they will say, and when. I assume they won't say anything publicly until they sign a contract with ICANN, and that this will be at about the time of the Beijing ICANN meeting. Does that sound right?

Avtal
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Old 1st December 2012, 04:22 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

All good.

For the most part APTLD have taken up the baton with concerns I was screaming about last summer but seemed to be falling on deaf ears.

Well done APTLD!!!
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Old 1st December 2012, 05:57 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

When I saw this:

-------
Verisign has applied for a dozen transliterations of .com and .net in scripts such as Hebrew, Cyrillic and Arabic. The strings themselves are meaningless, but they sound like “com” and “net”.
------

in the domaincite.com article, I just had to comment. "The strings themselves are meaningless" - that's just bs. Thais have been typing, searching for and putting .คอม on site logos for the last 10 years.

Jesus, the ignorance still out there man, it gets wearing
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Old 1st December 2012, 06:24 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Domaincite ignored all the most interesting bits, but frankly that is nothing new.


Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
When I saw this:

-------
Verisign has applied for a dozen transliterations of .com and .net in scripts such as Hebrew, Cyrillic and Arabic. The strings themselves are meaningless, but they sound like “com” and “net”.
------

in the domaincite.com article, I just had to comment. "The strings themselves are meaningless" - that's just bs. Thais have been typing, searching for and putting .คอม on site logos for the last 10 years.

Jesus, the ignorance still out there man, it gets wearing
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Old 1st December 2012, 09:59 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
So we aren't the only ones to notice that Verisign said nothing about aliasing in their applications.

I'm too lazy to dig through the archives, but it seems to me that this is the first time in more than a year that Verisign has confirmed their plans to alias.
I'm not sure where you get this from. The Verisign applications DO mention aliasing, and we have discussed this already

From http://www.idnforums.com/forums/3180...-com-arab.html (for instance)

Quote:
More specifically, the ARABIC_TRANSLITERATION_OF_.COM gTLD benefits the following groups:

Registrants: As discussed above, current .com registrants with second-level .com IDNs in Arabic can
greatly expand the functionality and reach of their existing registered addresses by the availability of
IDN.IDN domain names entirely in Arabic script.
and (spelling it out even better)...

Quote:
The initial target audience for ARABIC_TRANSLITERATION_OF_.COM is the registrants of the more
than 40,000 Arabic IDN second-level addresses in .com. These registrants will have the opportunity to
register their IDN.com addresses as IDN. ARABIC_TRANSLITERATION_OF_.COM addresses.
Discussed here http://www.idnforums.com/forums/3172...questions.html and in other threads too, IIRC.
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Old 1st December 2012, 01:07 PM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

To me, the Verisign application is ambiguous. It says that the owners of IDN.com would have the opportunity to register IDN.com-in-IDN, but it doesn't say that the owners would have the exclusive opportunity, or be first in line.

The APTLD also found the Verisign applications ambiguous:

Once again, while VeriSign Inc. helpfully and openly communicated its intentions to APTLD members prior to the establishment of the WG, it should be noted that the actual applications received by ICANN for transliterations of .com and .net do not expressly state the intention to bundle these transliterations to the existing TLDs.


Just to be clear: I do believe that Verisign will implement aliasing of IDN.com to IDN.com-in-IDN. My question is: When is the last time Verisign made this unambiguously clear? But more important is: When is the next time?

Avtal

Last edited by Avtal; 1st December 2012 at 01:33 PM..
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Old 1st December 2012, 05:55 PM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
I like the quote, but I haven't been able to figure out where it is from. Is it recent?

Avtal
I was hoping that Gomes was responding to Domain Incite, but at 2nd look appears that another person is quoting him:

http://domainincite.com/11185-verisi...ian-registries
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Old 1st December 2012, 06:27 PM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Absolutely, which is why I tried to get members to file comments at ICANN during the Public Consultation, but unfortunately they were mostly preoccuppied with another issues so trivial that frankly I have forgotten what it was.

However, the APTLD in a letter to ICANN as posted by 555, has now taken up the issue. So give us all a break and sit back and see what happens. The time to be proactive is pretty much long gone, but there are much bigger guns joining the battle, so all is not lost.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
To me, the Verisign application is ambiguous. It says that the owners of IDN.com would have the opportunity to register IDN.com-in-IDN, but it doesn't say that the owners would have the exclusive opportunity, or be first in line.

The APTLD also found the Verisign applications ambiguous:

Once again, while VeriSign Inc. helpfully and openly communicated its intentions to APTLD members prior to the establishment of the WG, it should be noted that the actual applications received by ICANN for transliterations of .com and .net do not expressly state the intention to bundle these transliterations to the existing TLDs.


Just to be clear: I do believe that Verisign will implement aliasing of IDN.com to IDN.com-in-IDN. My question is: When is the last time Verisign made this unambiguously clear? But more important is: When is the next time?

Avtal
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Old 1st December 2012, 06:29 PM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

It looks to me as if grandfathering is necessary but has downsides in VRSN's eyes. It's as if they don't want the domain base to grow until the full IDNs are out so as to not deal with too many registrants to grandfather. Perhaps it will be resource intensive or expensive (?) but that doesn't make much sense, why would grandfathering 2M domains be any more difficult than 1M ?? Perhaps then it's because under their pricing scheme, it will be more profitable to have new clients directly register .com-in-idn vs existing clients paying a lesser fee to unlock their .com alias ???

Perhaps the price to unlock .com aliases will not be subject to a markup by the registrars whereas direct .com-in-idn registrations will be, so it's a more interesting product to sell .. idk
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Old 1st December 2012, 06:50 PM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
It looks to me as if grandfathering is necessary but has downsides in VRSN's eyes. It's as if they don't want the domain base to grow until the full IDNs are out so as to not deal with too many registrants to grandfather. Perhaps it will be resource intensive or expensive (?) but that doesn't make much sense, why would grandfathering 2M domains be any more difficult than 1M ?? Perhaps then it's because under their pricing scheme, it will be more profitable to have new clients directly register .com-in-idn vs existing clients paying a lesser fee to unlock their .com alias ???

Perhaps the price to unlock .com aliases will not be subject to a markup by the registrars whereas direct .com-in-idn registrations will be, so it's a more interesting product to sell .. idk
Honestly this is twaddle, all they need to do is design a website to collect the money and turn on a software switch. They could do 1 Million by lunchtime.

The markup issue is also nonsense. Registries are not going to do anything for nothing, but they really don't take a very big cut. As registrants do not have a direct relationship with Verisign somebody has to collect the money.

The main reason registrations are unlikely, is that their contract will probably not permit them to do anything other than to alias the domains. If the domains do not actually exist as separate registrations then there can be no splitting of the ownership.
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 1st December 2012 at 07:03 PM..
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Old 26th March 2013, 12:51 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

I'm reviving this thread to add a comment that appeared in DomainIncite today:

Fahd A. Batayneh
March 25, 2013 at 7:12 pm
Kevin, from the discussions of the APTLD working group that commented on the .com transliterations, one of the group members tried to lobby the work of the WG away from the desired outcomes it was initially formed for, and he mentioned explicitly the following:

1. A registrant of a domain.tld will have the transliteration of the same domain name under all 12 idn.idn by default and at no additional cost. When the registrant decides on activating one, some payment will be involved.
2. A new registrant of a domain name must start with a domain.tld to obtain all 12 idn.idn transliterations, and cannot be done otherwise.


Avtal
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Old 26th March 2013, 01:00 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

I read that comment 4 times already and I don't understand the point Fahd is trying to make
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Old 26th March 2013, 01:08 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
I'm reviving this thread to add a comment that appeared in DomainIncite today:

Fahd A. Batayneh
March 25, 2013 at 7:12 pm
Kevin, from the discussions of the APTLD working group that commented on the .com transliterations, one of the group members tried to lobby the work of the WG away from the desired outcomes it was initially formed for, and he mentioned explicitly the following:

1. A registrant of a domain.tld will have the transliteration of the same domain name under all 12 idn.idn by default and at no additional cost. When the registrant decides on activating one, some payment will be involved.
2. A new registrant of a domain name must start with a domain.tld to obtain all 12 idn.idn transliterations, and cannot be done otherwise.


Avtal
one must start from a tld(ex:.com) to get all 12 translits Verisign applied for. The only point here I see is grandfathering.

Last edited by DktoInc; 26th March 2013 at 01:10 AM..
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Old 26th March 2013, 01:50 AM
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Re: Verisign’s IDN gTLDs “could increase phishing” say Asian registries

It's a bit difficult to parse, isn't it? Anyway, I see it as a somewhat garbled confirmation that as of last summer/fall, Verisign was still planning to grandfather existing IDN.com registrants.

And since Verisign still hasn't made any public announcements, this is what we have to work with.

Avtal
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