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Old 24th December 2012, 05:32 PM
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Grandfather clause

Here's a bit of historical trivia.

You have probably seen posts that say something like "when IDN.com-in-IDN goes live, owners of IDN.com will be grandfathered in". And you have probably figured out from the context that "grandfathered in" means you have some sort of pre-existing rights.

What you may not know is that "grandfathered in" comes from the term "grandfather clause", and that it dates back to one of the more ugly periods in US history.

After the US Civil War in the 1860s, the US Constitution was modified to ensure that people of all races (including former slaves and their descendants) would have the right to vote. However, the white majorities in the former slave-holding states wanted to find a way to prevent this from happening.

So they took a fairly devious approach. First, they required that everyone pass a literacy test in order to have the right to vote. Then (and this is the devious part) they exempted from the test everyone whose grandfather had had the right to vote (the "grandfather clause"). So if your grandfather had been a white slave-owner, you didn't need to take the test. But if your grandfather had been a black slave, you had to take the test, and of course the test was designed to be impossible to pass.

Something to remember whenever you see the phrase "grandfathered in".

Avtal

P.S. Wikipedia of course has a long article on the subject: Grandfather_clause.
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Old 24th December 2012, 09:51 PM
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Re: Grandfather clause

So what's the Santa Clause?
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Old 25th December 2012, 06:49 AM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Yet to be President, Financial Illiteracy is a prerequisite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
Here's a bit of historical trivia.

You have probably seen posts that say something like "when IDN.com-in-IDN goes live, owners of IDN.com will be grandfathered in". And you have probably figured out from the context that "grandfathered in" means you have some sort of pre-existing rights.

What you may not know is that "grandfathered in" comes from the term "grandfather clause", and that it dates back to one of the more ugly periods in US history.

After the US Civil War in the 1860s, the US Constitution was modified to ensure that people of all races (including former slaves and their descendants) would have the right to vote. However, the white majorities in the former slave-holding states wanted to find a way to prevent this from happening.

So they took a fairly devious approach. First, they required that everyone pass a literacy test in order to have the right to vote. Then (and this is the devious part) they exempted from the test everyone whose grandfather had had the right to vote (the "grandfather clause"). So if your grandfather had been a white slave-owner, you didn't need to take the test. But if your grandfather had been a black slave, you had to take the test, and of course the test was designed to be impossible to pass.

Something to remember whenever you see the phrase "grandfathered in".

Avtal

P.S. Wikipedia of course has a long article on the subject: Grandfather_clause.
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Old 25th December 2012, 09:24 AM
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Re: Grandfather clause

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Originally Posted by JamesD View Post
So what's the Santa Clause?
Groan.
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Old 25th December 2012, 10:00 PM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Yet to be President, Financial Illiteracy is a prerequisite.
------------------
Lend/Lease was a major screw up on FDR's part ....????
anti-america trolling on xmas ?
I would have thought the India -Pakistan T20 would have distracted you for a day.
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Old 25th December 2012, 10:14 PM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
Here's a bit of historical trivia.

You have probably seen posts that say something like "when IDN.com-in-IDN goes live, owners of IDN.com will be grandfathered in". And you have probably figured out from the context that "grandfathered in" means you have some sort of pre-existing rights.

What you may not know is that "grandfathered in" comes from the term "grandfather clause", and that it dates back to one of the more ugly periods in US history.

After the US Civil War in the 1860s, the US Constitution was modified to ensure that people of all races (including former slaves and their descendants) would have the right to vote. However, the white majorities in the former slave-holding states wanted to find a way to prevent this from happening.

So they took a fairly devious approach. First, they required that everyone pass a literacy test in order to have the right to vote. Then (and this is the devious part) they exempted from the test everyone whose grandfather had had the right to vote (the "grandfather clause"). So if your grandfather had been a white slave-owner, you didn't need to take the test. But if your grandfather had been a black slave, you had to take the test, and of course the test was designed to be impossible to pass.

Something to remember whenever you see the phrase "grandfathered in".

Avtal

P.S. Wikipedia of course has a long article on the subject: Grandfather_clause.
And why aliasing is important, anyway?
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Old 25th December 2012, 10:14 PM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbe18 View Post
Yet to be President, Financial Illiteracy is a prerequisite.
Lend/Lease was a major screw up on FDR's part ....????
anti-america trolling on xmas ?
I would have thought the India -Pakistan T20 would have distracted you for a day.
But he is a darn good basketball player.
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Old 25th December 2012, 11:49 PM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbe18 View Post
anti-america trolling on xmas ?
Why not? Isn't this the traditional day for family squabbles?

Avtal
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Old 26th December 2012, 01:38 AM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbe18 View Post
Yet to be President, Financial Illiteracy is a prerequisite.
------------------
Lend/Lease was a major screw up on FDR's part ....????
anti-america trolling on xmas ?
I would have thought the India -Pakistan T20 would have distracted you for a day.
I think the fact that you have had to trawl back 80 years for one dubious counter argument pretty much seals the case.
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Old 26th December 2012, 02:54 AM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
I think the fact that you have had to trawl back 80 years for one dubious counter argument pretty much seals the case.
The US managed a balanced budget in the 90s, with a couple of caveats (it helped that tax revenues were up due to the dot-com boom, and problems beyond a ten-year horizon, such as the sky-rocketing cost of healthcare for the elderly, were not addressed). Anyway, pretty good by historical standards.

What happened next still makes me mad, but I'll spare you the rant.

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Old 26th December 2012, 06:49 AM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
The US managed a balanced budget in the 90s, with a couple of caveats (it helped that tax revenues were up due to the dot-com boom, and problems beyond a ten-year horizon, such as the sky-rocketing cost of healthcare for the elderly, were not addressed). Anyway, pretty good by historical standards.

What happened next still makes me mad, but I'll spare you the rant.

Avtal
Yes, it is pretty serious when the two best examples of fiscal competence are in fact Democrats, who generally favour welfare spending.

To set the record straight, FDR did not get the US out of recession. The Germans and the Japanese did that. Even before the US joined the war it had a huge export boost to Britain and it consumed most of the Gold Reserves of a dying Empire in the process. The loss of competitiveness that it would have normally suffered from such a Boom was negated by the fact that World Production capacity was decimated leaving the US with most of the functionng factories. In addition to that, they picked up most of Britain and Germany's intellectual property rights and trade secrets for nothing.

No serious economist would give FDR all the credit. And no serious economist would draw the lessons the lesson that Ben Bernanke did.
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 26th December 2012 at 06:50 AM..
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Old 26th December 2012, 11:46 AM
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Re: Grandfather clause

80 years is not a small measure. Certainly not to Chinese, Japanese and Taiwanese...

HK, Belize, India, Pakistan, Rhodesia, Eqypt, Trans-jordan, Palestine, Mayasia, Burma, Kenya, Sudan, Iraq and Iran certainly would not be 'A's' on the UK or #10 Downing leaderboard.


on the US hegemon or benevelent dictator scale the UK has not had a robust 80 year span of its own.
Mostly rancid Middle East map making and rancid decolonization compared to the French, Belgians, Dutch, and Portuquese.
We basically screwed up the Phillipines and Cuba mostly.

When Castro dies, and US baseball recruiting returns ....the lovefest will resume.


So here are my 80 year grades for UK and US penultimate leadership since it was brought up....

Macdonald ...meh....B or C all 2 terms
Baldwin meh C's all 3 terms

Chamberlain....... D .... ( F but the paper waving off the plane was a nice touch)
Churchill A+ ( amazing leadership all the way to Sicily then C's...)
Atlee B or a C ( depends on your class, your school tie etc....)
Churchill C but a few B's during 1951 to 55 cold war stuff mostly
Eden C but Suez was a D/F
Macmillan B's decolonization D's and F's
Home meh.......mostly C's decolonization D's and F's
Wilson mostly B's
Heath mostly C's
Wilson B's and C'
Callaghan mostly B's ( at least had a Welsh sense of humor)
Thatcher depends one's POV A's and B's ... ( northern ireland...D/F)
Major mostly C's
Blair mostly B's .....A for Balkans
Brown mostly C's
Cameron mostly C's

US..

Coolidge...............B's mostly
Hoover D's
FDR A's mostly D/F Japanese internment
Truman mostly B's A berlin airlift marshall plan D- Korea
Eisenhower mostly B's A for highway system D --Cuba, Vietnam,
Kennedy mostly C's A cuba crisis D Vietnam C civil rights
Johnson mostly B's A civil rights F vietnam
Nixon mostly B' A open China F - watergate/domestic spying
Ford mostly C's
Carter mostly C's D/F Iran
Reagan mostly B's D - Iran/Contra
Bush I mostly C's A- Kuwait/Iraq
Clinton mostly B's F- Rwanda B - Balkans F- Discreet mistresses
Bush II mostly C's D/F war with tax cuts
Obama mostly C's B healthcare


The US is a broken federal republic.
I am so jealous of the UK 6 week election sprint. ( a $2 billion dollar savings jealousy)

28 Senators come from 14 states with less than 15% of the US population.
We can't even tax ourselves reasonably.

But I would take our perch sitting and our poorly managed global supremacy of the last 60 years over the UK's imperial decline and decolonization missteps of the last 60.

Our fiat currency and its poor management at least contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union, and basically bribed the Maoists in China to switch from bikes to BMW's.

Not one of the 20 to 30 nations in the line drawn from Nicosia to Singapore would applaud the UK's colonial period or its de-colonization.
Only football, cricket and single malt scotch are basically still heart warming for these
'white man's burdens'

At least we have bourbon and broadband porn for them to be thankful for on an ongoing basis as our US legacy....(grin0

Last edited by sbe18; 26th December 2012 at 11:54 AM..
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Old 26th December 2012, 01:05 PM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
And no serious economist would draw the lessons the lesson that Ben Bernanke did.
I somewhat agree about FDR (some nuanced differences, but I won't bore you with them now).

But to give Bernanke some credit: He would probably say that the best approach would be to run a budget deficit in the short term (to get us out of the slump) and to run a balanced budget in the long term (to keep our credit rating from plunging off a cliff).

But our fiscal policies are currently being held hostage by a group of people who believe the Earth is 7,000 years old; Bernanke is doing the best with the tools available to him.

Avtal

Last edited by Avtal; 26th December 2012 at 01:13 PM..
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Old 26th December 2012, 01:28 PM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Bourbon???

sheesh! you cannot even make Whiskey without fucking it up by adding sugar syrup!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbe18 View Post
80 years is not a small measure. Certainly not to Chinese, Japanese and Taiwanese...

HK, Belize, India, Pakistan, Rhodesia, Eqypt, Trans-jordan, Palestine, Mayasia, Burma, Kenya, Sudan, Iraq and Iran certainly would not be 'A's' on the UK or #10 Downing leaderboard.


on the US hegemon or benevelent dictator scale the UK has not had a robust 80 year span of its own.
Mostly rancid Middle East map making and rancid decolonization compared to the French, Belgians, Dutch, and Portuquese.
We basically screwed up the Phillipines and Cuba mostly.

When Castro dies, and US baseball recruiting returns ....the lovefest will resume.


So here are my 80 year grades for UK and US penultimate leadership since it was brought up....

Macdonald ...meh....B or C all 2 terms
Baldwin meh C's all 3 terms

Chamberlain....... D .... ( F but the paper waving off the plane was a nice touch)
Churchill A+ ( amazing leadership all the way to Sicily then C's...)
Atlee B or a C ( depends on your class, your school tie etc....)
Churchill C but a few B's during 1951 to 55 cold war stuff mostly
Eden C but Suez was a D/F
Macmillan B's decolonization D's and F's
Home meh.......mostly C's decolonization D's and F's
Wilson mostly B's
Heath mostly C's
Wilson B's and C'
Callaghan mostly B's ( at least had a Welsh sense of humor)
Thatcher depends one's POV A's and B's ... ( northern ireland...D/F)
Major mostly C's
Blair mostly B's .....A for Balkans
Brown mostly C's
Cameron mostly C's

US..

Coolidge...............B's mostly
Hoover D's
FDR A's mostly D/F Japanese internment
Truman mostly B's A berlin airlift marshall plan D- Korea
Eisenhower mostly B's A for highway system D --Cuba, Vietnam,
Kennedy mostly C's A cuba crisis D Vietnam C civil rights
Johnson mostly B's A civil rights F vietnam
Nixon mostly B' A open China F - watergate/domestic spying
Ford mostly C's
Carter mostly C's D/F Iran
Reagan mostly B's D - Iran/Contra
Bush I mostly C's A- Kuwait/Iraq
Clinton mostly B's F- Rwanda B - Balkans F- Discreet mistresses
Bush II mostly C's D/F war with tax cuts
Obama mostly C's B healthcare


The US is a broken federal republic.
I am so jealous of the UK 6 week election sprint. ( a $2 billion dollar savings jealousy)

28 Senators come from 14 states with less than 15% of the US population.
We can't even tax ourselves reasonably.

But I would take our perch sitting and our poorly managed global supremacy of the last 60 years over the UK's imperial decline and decolonization missteps of the last 60.

Our fiat currency and its poor management at least contributed to the collapse of the Soviet Union, and basically bribed the Maoists in China to switch from bikes to BMW's.

Not one of the 20 to 30 nations in the line drawn from Nicosia to Singapore would applaud the UK's colonial period or its de-colonization.
Only football, cricket and single malt scotch are basically still heart warming for these
'white man's burdens'

At least we have bourbon and broadband porn for them to be thankful for on an ongoing basis as our US legacy....(grin0
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Old 26th December 2012, 01:36 PM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Yes, we are all familiar with the economic theory but the US has a long track record of doing the expedient thing whilst almost never doing the difficult or unpopular things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
I somewhat agree about FDR (some nuanced differences, but I won't bore you with them now).

But to give Bernanke some credit: He would probably say that the best approach would be to run a budget deficit in the short term (to get us out of the slump) and to run a balanced budget in the long term (to keep our credit rating from plunging off a cliff).

But our fiscal policies are currently being held hostage by a group of people who believe the Earth is 7,000 years old; Bernanke is doing the best with the tools available to him.

Avtal
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Old 27th December 2012, 12:22 AM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
Yes, we are all familiar with the economic theory
...
You are, I am, and for a brief period in the 90s, so was the US government. No more, though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
...
but the US has a long track record of doing the expedient thing whilst almost never doing the difficult or unpopular things.
Yep, that's our government. Unlike all other governments, I'm sure.

Avtal
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Old 28th December 2012, 11:31 AM
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Re: Grandfather clause

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesD View Post
So what's the Santa Clause?
Apparently it's when you accept money for a domain and don't transfer or have an auth code at the ready for three weeks.

Please check your PM.
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