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Old 16th January 2013, 05:29 AM
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ccTLDs

The release of Dot.egypt(IDN) caught most of us by surprise. It's probably true to say that the forum hasn't taken as much notice of IDN ccTLDs as we perhaps should, and there are various reasons for that.

My own reason is that I've been put off by the restrictive registration requirements placed on ccTLDs, but it seems some ccTLDs aren't all that restrictive if you go through a local registrar (.egypt being such a case).

So what I think would be good is to compile all the information we know about IDN ccTLD releases (past and future) in this thread, including information about eligibility for foreign registrants. That way we can get a better handle on what opportunities are currently out there and not get caught out by future releases.
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Old 17th January 2013, 12:18 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Canada (.ca) now allows IDNs. Via TheDomains, from CIRA:

You can now register .CA domain names properly in both official languages - CIRA has introduced support for the full range of French characters, such as û, à, ç, ë, and œ.

The CIRA page is worth a visit; they explain how they have implemented what we have been calling "aliasing". For instance:

Every French character variant of a registered .CA domain name automatically becomes part of an administrative bundle. For example, the bundle for cira.ca would include variants such as cirà.ca, çira.ca, cîra.ca, çïrâ.ca, and all other combination of accented French and standard ASCII characters.

Once a domain name is registered, all the variants of that domain name in the administrative bundle are reserved, and cannot be registered by anyone except the existing Registrant for the domain name.


Let's hope Verisign takes note.

Avtal
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Old 17th January 2013, 06:46 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
Canada (.ca) now allows IDNs. Via TheDomains, from CIRA:

You can now register .CA domain names properly in both official languages - CIRA has introduced support for the full range of French characters, such as û, à, ç, ë, and œ.

The CIRA page is worth a visit; they explain how they have implemented what we have been calling "aliasing". For instance:

Every French character variant of a registered .CA domain name automatically becomes part of an administrative bundle. For example, the bundle for cira.ca would include variants such as cirà.ca, çira.ca, cîra.ca, çïrâ.ca, and all other combination of accented French and standard ASCII characters.

Once a domain name is registered, all the variants of that domain name in the administrative bundle are reserved, and cannot be registered by anyone except the existing Registrant for the domain name.


Let's hope Verisign takes note.

Avtal
You Dipstick!

First you tell me that Cira has reserved everything for the holders of ASCII domains.

Then you tell me you want Verisign to do the same?

Besides. Hasn't the Horse already bolted?
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Old 17th January 2013, 12:34 PM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
You Dipstick!

First you tell me that Cira has reserved everything for the holders of ASCII domains.

Then you tell me you want Verisign to do the same?

Besides. Hasn't the Horse already bolted?
Sorry I wasn't clear.

No, I do not want Verisign to give the IDN to the registrant of the equivalent ascii name (plus a one-to-one equivalent doesn't always exist, plus the IDN is probably already taken, maybe by me).

I meant that the idea of an "administrative bundle" seems like a good way of describing aliasing.

In CIRA's case, the registrant of cira.ca is the only one allowed to register cirà.ca, çira.ca, cîra.ca, çïrâ.ca, etc. This group of variants is called an "administrative bundle" by CIRA.

In the .com case, the registrant of IDN.com would be the only one allowed to register IDN.com-in-IDN. Just as Chuck Gomes discussed more than 3 years ago. The only thing I added was to suggest borrowing the term "administrative bundle" from CIRA, since DNAME, BNAME, etc seem off the table.

Avtal
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Old 17th January 2013, 12:49 PM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
DNAME, BNAME, etc seem off the table.
Aug 23, 2012: Mirroring Variants Feasibility Study:


One potential treatment of variants is mirroring, whereby two or more labels use some DNS technology (currently a choice between CNAME and DNAME DNS aliasing records) to ensure they provide the same result in the Domain Name System.


(Section 4.1 of the Integrated Issues Report discussed the current limitations of this approach). Due to the distributed nature of the DNS, using these approaches is a complex challenge, as it is difficult to ensure consistency (both vertically and horizontally) throughout the DNS tree. A study was proposed to establish whether it is technically feasible to implement mirroring. Community feedback, including technical feedback, suggested that the final Integrated Issues Report presented enough data to show that mirroring variants is not feasible with the currently available DNS technology.
As noted previously, even if the DNS issues could be solved, application protocols that use the DNS (e.g., the Web, e-mail) would not know of this special relationship between the names, making them fail to deliver the expected result. It also appears challenging to ensure appropriate software support for products which rely on the DNS but do not have proper understanding of the many-to-one domain name relationship that mirroring creates. In addition, it seems mirroring requires a number of actors (some of which are not in direct relation with the registrant/registrar/registry) to act appropriately and with knowledge of the variant relation of the names to obtain the expected result.
For these reasons it is being proposed to not do the feasibility study on mirroring variants and not to implement the mirroring state for IDN variant TLDs at this point.
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Old 17th January 2013, 01:29 PM
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Re: ccTLDs

That's right.

My main point is that CIRA and the registrars have managed, jointly, to implement a fairly complex process ("administrative bundles"). The Verisign .com/.com-in-IDN proposal is only slightly more complex (aliasing to the right of the dot instead of to the left). So the .ca example gives me more confidence that Verisign and the registries (who I see as a potential weak link) can implement Chuck Gomes' proposal.

Also, it's interesting to look at some of the .ca details to imagine how they might carry over to the .com aliasing. For instance: all variants are held in the same registrant account at the same registrar; each variant is paid for as a separate domain; each variant has its own expiration date; the registrant decides which variants to register. One thing that CIRA didn't make clear: if the registrant lets cira.ca expire, is he/she still allowed to keep the non-ascii variants?

Avtal
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Old 17th January 2013, 02:12 PM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
One thing that CIRA didn't make clear: if the registrant lets cira.ca expire, is he/she still allowed to keep the non-ascii variants?

Avtal

Quote:
Once a domain name is registered, all the variants of that domain name in the administrative bundle are reserved, and cannot be registered by anyone except the existing Registrant for the domain name.
Isn't the ASCII one also a variant of one of the idn versions? Then it's reserved, according to them.
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Old 18th January 2013, 03:44 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by yanni View Post
Isn't the ASCII one also a variant of one of the idn versions? Then it's reserved, according to them.
Hmm. Good point. I think you're right. Thanks!

Avtal
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Old 19th January 2013, 10:19 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
since DNAME, BNAME, etc seem off the table.
In TWNIC, the delegated
variant pairs (SC and TC) also resolve to the same name server. DNAME is used. More
information can be found in TWNIC’s policy document

http://www.icann.org/en/news/public-...18jan13-en.htm
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Old 2nd February 2013, 11:17 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Given that Korea didn't grandfather IDN.kr owners to IDN.한국, what do you think the chances are that Japan will grandfather IDN.jp owners to IDN.日本?

There was an interview with Hiro Hotta from JPRS who felt that grandfathering should occur, but the interview is from 2010 and it was only his personal opinion.
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Old 4th February 2013, 06:19 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Okay, let's put it this way, would you invest in IDN.jp with the hope that it will be aliased (one day, if and when they get around to it) to IDN.日本?
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Old 4th February 2013, 01:22 PM
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Re: ccTLDs

By the time they get around to it, I don't think anyone will care.

Japan has a shed load of problems as an economy and is not showing any great resourcefulness in resolving them.
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Old 4th February 2013, 02:27 PM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
Japan has a shed load of problems as an economy and is not showing any great resourcefulness in resolving them.
Given their apparent lack of interest in introducing .日本, I can't disagree.
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Old 5th February 2013, 03:41 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Given that Korea didn't grandfather IDN.kr owners to IDN.한국, what do you think the chances are that Japan will grandfather IDN.jp owners to IDN.日本?
I think the question is irrelevant, as .日本 is not considered equivalent of .JP in Japanese, which is why they haven't rushed to get it.
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Old 5th February 2013, 04:21 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

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Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
I think the question is irrelevant, as .日本 is not considered equivalent of .JP in Japanese, which is why they haven't rushed to get it.
What do you mean?
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Old 5th February 2013, 04:50 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Japanese language uses several writing systems together: Roman, Hiragana, Katakana, and Kanji. Writing Japan as 日本 has an entirely different nuance from writing the abbreviation JP.

Domains that are .JP have a different nuance and contextual meaning if they were in .日本, and the formal nuance if 日本 is not often one that is desired for a domain name.
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Old 5th February 2013, 05:23 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast View Post
Domains that are .JP have a different nuance and contextual meaning if they were in .日本, and the formal nuance if 日本 is not often one that is desired for a domain name.
I just want to know whether holding IDN.jp will give me first rights on IDN.日本 when they finally move on it. I expect IDN.jp will be irrelevant once .日本 comes online (even more so if there is little linguistic equivalence like you say).

But just to follow up on your point as an aside, would you say that .com and .コム are linguistically equivalent in terms of nuance and contextual meaning?
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Old 5th February 2013, 05:38 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
I just want to know whether holding IDN.jp will give me first rights on IDN.日本 when they finally move on it. I expect IDN.jp will be irrelevant once .日本 comes online (even more so if there is little linguistic equivalence like you say).

But just to follow up on your point as an aside, would you say that .com and .コム are linguistically equivalent in terms of nuance and contextual meaning?
.com and .コム are much more closely related than .日本 and .JP:

.com is often written as .コム
.JP is almost never written as .日本

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 5th February 2013 at 05:39 AM..
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Old 6th February 2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: ccTLDs

.рф failed so far in Russia
There are reasons for that, I don't like this ext myself. There were big sales in the beguinning but it never grew. I think, com and org will do better but this will depend of russian economy which is in horrible shape. The long use of foreign lang in adresses made from russia completely different market for domains. Top commercial names will do well but medium and crap ones are doomed imho. Russians don't mind to use any crappy extention if it's cheap. Russians do not type in. .Com is virtually not used (but I think will be well accepted if big companies start using it)
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Old 7th February 2013, 01:42 AM
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Re: ccTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackpower View Post
Top commercial names will do well but medium and crap ones are doomed imho.
Then I'm in trouble.

Avtal

Last edited by Avtal; 7th February 2013 at 01:50 AM..
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