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IDN Newbies IDN domain newbie questions like What is an IDN domain, what are idners, how do you use punycode, is there a Japanese sedo etc. Since this is a new market please don't hesitate to ask questions...

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Old 27th February 2013, 06:47 AM
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New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Hi guys,

I'm considering moving away from English domains and moving into the IDN market. I've spent a few days doing my research so as to narrow down the niche I'd like to target, but I have a few questions that I haven't found the answers to yet that might help me find the direction I'd like to move in.

Firstly, what is a decent exact search volume for a Bengali or Tamil search term? Or rather, what is the volume of the top terms? I know the internet has very low penetration in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but all I'm trying to do is get a referential point so I can evaluate how people are currently using the internet, and how that might change in the future.

Would you advise against two or three word Arabic terms on account of needing to use the hyphen? For example, I am aware of one available term with 368,000 exact matches and $0.97 CPC, and another with 47,000 exact matches and $12 CPC, but they are both three words. How does this affect type in traffic? Are hyphens the norm for those using the internet in this language?

Which IDN's are worth considering in the .net extension?

How are you monetizing your IDN domains? Are you developing or just parking and waiting for type in traffic?

Thank you in advance for your time and guidance!
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Old 27th February 2013, 11:34 AM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Welcome to the forum.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
Firstly, what is a decent exact search volume for a Bengali or Tamil search term? Or rather, what is the volume of the top terms? I know the internet has very low penetration in Bangladesh and Sri Lanka, but all I'm trying to do is get a referential point so I can evaluate how people are currently using the internet, and how that might change in the future.
You probably won't find many Bengali and Tamil terms with 5 figure search volume so 4 figures should be pretty good. If you are targetting those languages prepare for a long wait though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
Would you advise against two or three word Arabic terms on account of needing to use the hyphen? For example, I am aware of one available term with 368,000 exact matches and $0.97 CPC, and another with 47,000 exact matches and $12 CPC, but they are both three words. How does this affect type in traffic? Are hyphens the norm for those using the internet in this language?
Sometimes the hyphen is needed as a word separator because without it the words would stick together and become unreadable. Here's a list with the exceptions. That doesn't mean that the hyphen is heavily used however.

$12 CPC sounds pretty impressive for an Arabic name. Could be great for development but I wouldn't expect much parking traffic. Traffic wise you'd probably be better off with a 10k [exact] single word.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
Which IDN's are worth considering in the .net extension?
Some time ago I would have said Arabic. Unfortunately those are fucked now because Verisign was stupid enouth not to apply for .net in Arabic. So if you're interested in IDN.IDN go for Chinese, Hindi and Korean.

In general I'd say: only top terms in major languages.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
How are you monetizing your IDN domains? Are you developing or just parking and waiting for type in traffic?
Due to lack of development skills I'm holding out for end user sales while staying cost neutral with parking income and occasional sales.

Some more advice:

1) Do the research. You will find a lot of helpful information when you know where to look for it. The best ressources:

- This forum. Many questions you might ask yourself have be asked and answered before. You'll find them using the search function or by searching site:idnforums.com on Google.

- Native dictionaries. For accurate translations it's better to use dictionaries created by natives rather than Google translate. Chinese: http://www.mdbg.net/chindict/chindict.php
There's a few more for other languages.

- Search stats. GAKT is the most universal tool but for markets where they don't dominate other tools can be helpful.
For Russian: http://wordstat.yandex.ru/
For Chinese: http://index.baidu.com/
Naver (Korean) doesn't share numbers but trends: http://trend.naver.com/

2) If you want to build up a good portfolio consider drop catching and / or buying rather than hand regging stuff that's available.

- For buying decent names at reseller prices this is the place.

- For watching drops the best idea would be signing up at http://expiringidns.com/
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Old 27th February 2013, 11:45 AM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post

Which IDN's are worth considering in the .net extension?

How are you monetizing your IDN domains? Are you developing or just parking and waiting for type in traffic?

Thank you in advance for your time and guidance!
.net: Chinese, japanese, only if excellent terms. maybe arabic, russian in some cases but i wouldn't do that too often if possible.

stick to .com if possible.

development = waste of time at this point IMO.

parking sometimes can cover cost depending on the terms. sometimes it can make money but most revenue terms seem to be taken already.

at this stage this is more like investing for future gains, so you spend money that you MAY get back at one point in time (and much more hopefully)

i would try to find a revenue source that can finance your IDN purchases and renewal fees and invest that money for the long term.

Last edited by 123; 27th February 2013 at 11:46 AM..
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Old 27th February 2013, 12:31 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Money isn't really an issue. I can afford to invent long term no problem - That was always my goal. It's also why Bengali and Tamil interested me to begin with.

I've had a look at some Hindi names. It seems like the other major languages, I'll have to dip into the aftermarket to find quality. However, I'm not seeing huge search volume. From what I've gleamed from my reading, this is a market that is expected to take off sooner than some of the other languages that aren't quite there yet. Correct?
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Old 27th February 2013, 12:58 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
I've had a look at some Hindi names. It seems like the other major languages, I'll have to dip into the aftermarket to find quality. However, I'm not seeing huge search volume. From what I've gleamed from my reading, this is a market that is expected to take off sooner than some of the other languages that aren't quite there yet. Correct?
You will face the problem that everyone has faced since entering this area since 2006 - all the good terms are taken. Two strategies to get in the game. 1. Monitor the aftermarket. 2. Splash some cash.

With the aftermarket, I highly recommend using Squirrel's drop service (expiringidns.com), because it gives exact GAKT which is hands-down the best indicator for obtaining a revenue-name. Mind you, the aftermarket has been a bit quiet of late in terms of good catches.

With buying IDNs from old-hands, I'd suggest playing around with IDNs for a while before you spend too much. It's easy to waste your money in this area if you don't know 100% what you are doing.
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Old 27th February 2013, 02:03 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

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Originally Posted by Jay View Post
It's easy to waste your money in this area if you don't know 100% what you are doing.
True. We all have made several hundreds, in some cases thousands of dollars worth of mistakes. If I were you I'd start with some handregs and 70$ drops, and post them here to know if you did good. Also, most people here will gladly help you and give you some advice before you actually buy something.

Do you know about Aliasing ? If you don't, you should spend some time reading about the policy side of things, etc. Learn what is aliasing, what is a variant at the top level, what is a variant at the second level, what is IDNA2008, which IDN TLDs were applied for etc.

Familiarize yourself with the language you're about to invest in. If you're eyeing Russian, learn about declensions, learn how to use Yandex Wordstat etc., if it's Arabic, learn about the hamza, short letters, why the hyphen is sometimes necessary, etc.

In the case of Bengali and Tamil, the top terms are 60K exact to my knowledge. However, you must know that for Indian languages (Bengali much more than Tamil), many top searched terms are actually typos because the people searching them are likely to use virtual keyboards that transliterate the input into an indian language, or simply because they write phonetically. So for example, "seks" might have twice as much searches than "sex". Same for "vidiyo" vs "video" etc.


good luck
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Old 27th February 2013, 02:31 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
From what I've gleamed from my reading, this is a market that is expected to take off sooner than some of the other languages that aren't quite there yet. Correct?
I think you need to read up about the different cultures and countries to really understand what you're buying.

Start with this:
-A language is something you speak
-A script is like an alphabet, it's the letters and symbols used to represent one or many languages in the written form.
-Many languages can use the same script. One language can use many scripts.
-Some people on earth speak/understand several languages. Understanding a language, doesn't mean using it in the written form. (or generally, be careful when you interpret language statistics)
-Not all scripts have had the same exposure and support when it comes to technology (software and hardware). (i.e. Japanese hardware keyboards have existed for a long time, Bengali keyboard not so much. Some languages have had unicode fonts for less than a decade.)
-Countries close to one another geographically are not necessarily similar markets. Vietnam & Thailand are much different markets to invest in.
-A premium domain in english is not necessarily a premium word in other languages. Understand how the domains you acquire fit in the culture of the target market. Vodka.com in any language that is predominantly spoken by people of Islamic belief is a questionable investment.
-The money you make parking is function of 3 things : traffic, click through rate and cpc. You must know what drives all 3 and why it varies between markets. It does vary a lot between markets.
-Don't always think Desktop. Think Mobile.
-Things change.

Last edited by squirrel; 27th February 2013 at 02:40 PM..
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Old 1st March 2013, 02:27 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Thanks for all the advice. Definitely doing my homework! I've picked up my first two IDN's. I don't know that they're stellar, but I think I could have done much worse..

консультант.org (consultant)
Иран.net (iran)

Thoughts?
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Old 1st March 2013, 02:35 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Do you know if .org is getting aliased "soon" in Cyrillic, what about .net ?
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Old 1st March 2013, 04:56 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
консультант.org (consultant)
Иран.net (iran)

Thoughts?
консультант.org (consultant) - Don't expect to see traffic, but I think it has potential going forward for either development or sale to an end user down the track.

Иран.net (iran) - This is a good geo term, but keep in mind that Cyrillic.net isn't being aliased (not in the near future at least), and in Russian it basically reads as 'Iran.No'

Last edited by Jay; 1st March 2013 at 05:29 PM..
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Old 1st March 2013, 06:27 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

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in Russian it basically reads as 'Iran.No'
More suited to US than to Russia
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Old 1st March 2013, 06:43 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
Hey guys,

Thanks for the replies.

Money isn't really an issue. I can afford to invent long term no problem - That was always my goal. It's also why Bengali and Tamil interested me to begin with.

I've had a look at some Hindi names. It seems like the other major languages, I'll have to dip into the aftermarket to find quality. However, I'm not seeing huge search volume. From what I've gleamed from my reading, this is a market that is expected to take off sooner than some of the other languages that aren't quite there yet. Correct?
Great advice from all, especially Squirrel. The IDN market has been going since 2000, almost as long as the ASCII market, so it makes sense you will have to dip into the aftermarket for the quality terms

Hindi has a huge potential market in the future, but the search volumes aren't really there yet, nor the CPC. There will be no sudden change for the good, just slow and steady, but slow and steady can win the race no doubts.

Bengali / Tamil are similar but several years behind Hindi even.

If you want to know why I've invested heavily in Thai, its all explained here:

http://www.thaidomains.com/ten-reaso...main-names-now

Overall, my advice is (a) if you know any foreign languages, research them first. If you don't, learn everything you can about the risks / rewards of the languages you are looking at and then pick a "basket" to try and acquire in.

I don't really know what "money is not an issue" means, but whatever it means, try and strike a balance between low and high risk names. What you don't want to end up with is 500 non-earning hand-reg names that you'll end up paying renewal costs for the next 10 years. People here have done that and regretted it i.e. dumped most of them.

The IDN game has proven time and time again that huge patience is required. Things happen at a snails pace. You don't want to exasperate that by investing solely in names that will take 10 years to mature even after all the other IDN pieces of the puzzle are in place.

By being late to the game, you have the advantage in not having the 13 year wait some people on this forum have had. Use that to your advantage, don't let it use you.
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Old 1st March 2013, 11:52 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

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New to IDN'S - Need help deciding where to start
Porn terms in any language. Cultural differences aside the one thing all humans have in common is our love with sex.
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Old 1st March 2013, 11:54 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

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Originally Posted by TheFifty9Sound View Post
Иран.net (iran)
Nice, I have the .com. How much you pay for it?
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Old 2nd March 2013, 06:28 AM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

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Originally Posted by sarcle View Post
Porn terms in any language. Cultural differences aside the one thing all humans have in common is our love with sex.
I agree people want to search for porn, that's natural, human nature. What isn't natural are governments and how they try to control their populations.

Thailand currently blocks as many western porn sites as it can at a government level. When you try and access one, you get redirected to a government "ban" site.

It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to think they will block all Thai IDN porn names in the future, making them pretty much worthless.

Many Muslim / Hindu / Sikh governments may well do the same.

So sure, the demand is guaranteed, supply much less certain. If you are going to invest in adult terms, choose your market. If the country already bans / censors adult sites, I would suggest its a very risky investment.

(And yes, I have heard of proxies, but 99% of people don't know a proxy from a pound of bananas. They certainly aren't going to use a proxy to visit parking pages )

Last edited by domainguru; 2nd March 2013 at 06:29 AM..
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Old 2nd March 2013, 11:12 AM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

You can flip консультант.org and sell it to me;
I offer $20 for your first sale.
As far as what domains to chose, go for expensive markets.
In portuguese I focus on Real Estate and financial terms,
in Russian I would also go for Real Estate plus construction area
an exemple of expensive would be
солярий.org
Tanning beds are very expensive and since russia does not have much sun...
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Old 2nd March 2013, 12:17 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

Quote:
I agree people want to search for porn, that's natural, human nature. What isn't natural are governments and how they try to control their populations.

Thailand currently blocks as many western porn sites as it can at a government level. When you try and access one, you get redirected to a government "ban" site.

It doesn't take a great leap of imagination to think they will block all Thai IDN porn names in the future, making them pretty much worthless.
That is a good point. Gambling and Forex domains can be problematic too in some markets for this reason
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Old 2nd March 2013, 01:34 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

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Originally Posted by 123 View Post
That is a good point. Gambling and Forex domains can be problematic too in some markets for this reason
Yeah I was pretty shocked when I researched gambling. Its illegal in a huge block of countries (Thailand included again), but many many others. Online gambling seems to be getting banned more and more .... trend is not your friend there.
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Old 2nd March 2013, 01:51 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

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Originally Posted by domainguru View Post
Yeah I was pretty shocked when I researched gambling. Its illegal in a huge block of countries (Thailand included again), but many many others. Online gambling seems to be getting banned more and more .... trend is not your friend there.
Some of the biggest operators are looking at "join the Poker Club" $20- $50 a month, and "play for fun".....motto "never lose a penny".

Of course that doesn't satisfy the addicted gambler, but I guess there are enough takers to make it worthwhile.

I am sure there is more to it....and guessing after you are addicted to playing and perhaps winning "for free", they have a way to have a way to hook you up with one of their "partner" sites, maybe overseas where they skin you alive.

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Old 2nd March 2013, 02:15 PM
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Re: New to IDN's - Need help deciding where to start

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Originally Posted by bwhhisc View Post
Some of the biggest operators are looking at "join the Poker Club" $20- $50 a month, and "play for fun".....motto "never lose a penny".

Of course that doesn't satisfy the addicted gambler, but I guess there are enough takers to make it worthwhile.

I am sure there is more to it....and guessing after you are addicted to playing and perhaps winning "for free", they have a way to have a way to hook you up with one of their "partner" sites, maybe overseas where they skin you alive.
My one foray into online gambling (IDNs aside) was in the UK about 15 years ago when I was bored. Got one of those free offers, "we'll give you £50 to get going", and I played Blackjack for about 3 days, and cashed out at £1000, and said thank you very much. Of course I was on the verge of losing it all a couple of times, but since it wasn't my money, I didn't really care, got lucky and got out.

I tried poker but found it zombifying. Blackjack is the same really. I've no idea why anyone would want to play cards online for a living. Its the most mind-numbing thing I can think of. Its a buzz for about 48 hrs and then just trails off into the most tedious thing imaginable ... boring as f**k

Only downside is to this day, I still get emails from "Captain Casino" and a thousand other "casinos" .... spam city.

But I'd rather watch grass grow then play cards online.
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