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Old 11th May 2013, 02:30 AM
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Question ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

What is being done to protect the rights of 300,000 registrants who have an
existing Internationalized Domain Names (IDNs) like dot com, dot org domain
where, unless treated properly, the New gTLD transliteration that is coming will
lead to widespread confusion and fraud?

Quote:
There is some confusion surrounding this particular question, but if the person who asked it wishes to afford some clarity and/or elaboration, then he is invited to contact Cyrus Namazi (cyrus.namazi@icann.org), ICANN’s Vice President, DNS Industry Engagement.
- from ICANN's "Responses to Questions/Comments from Public Forum Session"

Anyone trying to contact and share? Why ICANN's answer can not be published???
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Old 11th May 2013, 01:05 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Just sent them an email. Lets see if reply and what will it be
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Old 11th May 2013, 05:25 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by puyang View Post
What is being done to protect the rights of 300,000 registrants who have an existing Internationalized Domain Names (IDNs) like dot com, dot org domain where, unless treated properly, the New gTLD transliteration that is coming will lead to widespread confusion and fraud
You could interpret this question as suggesting aliasing is a bad idea. I don't quite understand the question myself.

Last edited by Jay; 11th May 2013 at 05:55 PM..
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Old 12th May 2013, 12:00 AM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Thanks for the head's up. Email sent.

Please stop mentioning the work "aliasing" as that is what is causing the confusion. The term to use is "grandfathering".

When you say "aliasing" to anyone in the ICANN process, they immediately think SimpChinese <-> TradChinese, and you lose them.
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Old 12th May 2013, 12:14 AM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Thank you all for the reply.
My personal view is that:

If IDN.IDN_COM_TRANSLITERATION [grandfathering] are given to IDN.com holders, there will be less confusion.

If not, when we pronounce "IDN.com" in certain language, people will tend to think of "IDN.IDN_COM_TRANSLITERATION" and confusion will rise.

However, IDN grandfathering vs. Trademark protection needs special attention.
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Old 12th May 2013, 08:06 AM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the latest ICANN position is to leave it up to the registrars to sort out their own arrangements in this regard. So if Verisign want to implement grandfathering, then that is up to them.

So are you saying you would like ICANN to step in to guarantee this right rather than leave it to the discretion of individual registrars?
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Old 12th May 2013, 08:48 AM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the latest ICANN position is to leave it up to the registrars to sort out their own arrangements in this regard. So if Verisign want to implement grandfathering, then that is up to them.

So are you saying you would like ICANN to step in to guarantee this right rather than leave it to the discretion of individual registrars?
Absolutely, refusal to sign up to this should prevent the gTLD being issued.

To allow this to go ahead without Grandfather is against everything that ICANN professes to ICANN stand for.
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Old 12th May 2013, 11:16 AM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Sorry about the sloppiness.

Not sure which is more difficult IOS or the Screaming Baby.
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Old 12th May 2013, 04:14 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
Thanks for the head's up. Email sent.

Please stop mentioning the work "aliasing" as that is what is causing the confusion. The term to use is "grandfathering".

When you say "aliasing" to anyone in the ICANN process, they immediately think SimpChinese <-> TradChinese, and you lose them.
Yes, ready the response, it seems they failed to understand the question.

Is this contrived stupidity or is just a natural talent?
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Old 13th May 2013, 07:47 AM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Okay but what is the case that new IDN gTLDs will cause user confusion? I thought ICANN defines user confusion by visual similarity not phonetic similarity? On those grounds, why would ICANN care?
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Old 13th May 2013, 11:32 AM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Okay but what is the case that new IDN gTLDs will cause user confusion? I thought ICANN defines user confusion by visual similarity not phonetic similarity? On those grounds, why would ICANN care?
Radio Test mean anything?

Initial Evaluation does not include Audible Similarity.

Trademarks are only about Visual Representations.

For ICANN Initial plus GAC equals Final.

But

http://forum.icann.org/lists/6gtld-guide/msg00062.html

Apparently Blind People also use the Internet. How are they going to distinguish between Audibly Identical Domains?

Or are the Blind one of the Communities that ICANN does not give a flying f*ck about?


Quoting Guide Book:

"In this Applicant Guidebook,
“similar” means strings so similar that they create a
probability of user confusion if more than one of the strings
is delegated into the root zone."


"For the likelihood of confusion
to exist, it must be probable, not merely possible that
confusion will arise in the mind of the average, reasonable
Internet user."


"Such category of objection is not limited to
visual similarity. Rather, confusion based on any type of
similarity (including visual, aural, or similarity of meaning)
may be claimed by an objector."

But to object you must have standing and ICANN stitched up so that only Registries could object. Registrants were left out in the cold as usual. And why? Because the whole bloody thing was drafted by the Registries. That's bloody why!
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 13th May 2013 at 11:45 AM..
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Old 13th May 2013, 01:36 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
But to object you must have standing and ICANN stitched up so that only Registries could object. Registrants were left out in the cold as usual. And why? Because the whole bloody thing was drafted by the Registries. That's bloody why!
Then the horse has already bolted on this one. What is the likelihood that ICANN would change their policy and allow registrants to object to new strings now?

Also, what can of worms might that open if they did? Would ASCII holders be able to claim that they hold the rights over IDNs because their translits are phonetically identical?
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Old 13th May 2013, 03:01 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Then the horse has already bolted on this one. What is the likelihood that ICANN would change their policy and allow registrants to object to new strings now?

Also, what can of worms might that open if they did? Would ASCII holders be able to claim that they hold the rights over IDNs because their translits are phonetically identical?
If ICANN have denied us a voice on this then the lose all credibility and would be wide open to litigation.

This is only about the Top Level. I have no objection to ASCIi owners having their strings in the new extensions. Indeed, it would make sense for Sony, Apple and the like to register their brands in the new extensions.
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Old 13th May 2013, 04:14 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
If ICANN have denied us a voice on this then the lose all credibility and would be wide open to litigation.
That will be nothing new for them.

ICANN have pushed the responsibility onto the registries, who will have to deal with any litigation that follows from their reservation practices. I doubt ICANN have the time, resources, understanding or interest to formulate a specific policy regarding the rights of existing registered IDNs, but I can't blame you for trying and good luck getting them to do something.

But what it looks like it will come down to is whether reserving new IDN TLDs for existing registrants makes good business sense for Verisign, and whether they have a sense of loyalty to those who have been renewing their IDN.coms for many years. Based on their various public comments, the answer seems to be yes. Or have they said something to the contrary that I'm not aware of?
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Old 13th May 2013, 08:02 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Okay but what is the case that new IDN gTLDs will cause user confusion? I thought ICANN defines user confusion by visual similarity not phonetic similarity? On those grounds, why would ICANN care?
I believe you are mixing up the String similarity part of the evaluation process with the objection system which allows for any type of confusion.
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Old 13th May 2013, 08:29 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
I believe you are mixing up the String similarity part of the evaluation process with the objection system which allows for any type of confusion.
Well I'm just saying that I don't think ICANN would care unless there was string confusion.

The problem here is that we are a small group of investors, probably cyber-squatters from ICANN's perspective. In fact we are the sort of people that ICANN wouldn't want to see monopolising the IDN space. They'd probably wish that existing registrars didn't have any prior rights. So my point is that it's probably a good thing that ICANN has left it to the registrars like Verisign to oversee any reservations, who are more likely to look after our rights than ICANN would.

I just can't see ICANN being in our corner, that's all.
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Old 13th May 2013, 08:38 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Well I'm just saying that I don't think ICANN would care unless there was string confusion.

The problem here is that we are a small group of investors, probably cyber-squatters from ICANN's perspective. In fact we are the sort of people that ICANN wouldn't want to see monopolising the IDN space. They'd probably wish that existing registrars?registrants? didn't have any prior rights. So my point is that it's probably a good thing that ICANN has left it to the registrars?registries? like Verisign to oversee any reservations, who are more likely to look after our rights than ICANN would.

I just can't see ICANN being in our corner, that's all.
There is more IDN registrants than the few of us around here. I'm pretty positive about that.

One other thing we must realize is that ICANN does not have to be with or against us as long as we put it to them in a way that they have to do something. .XXX was not an ICANN favorite yet they got through. The GAC currently has issued advice that a lot of ICANN consituencies are deeming unreasonable. I'm pretty sure ICANN will not reject GAC advice because otherwise GAC will have some of its member states go to the ITU.
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Old 15th May 2013, 05:56 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
Thanks for the head's up. Email sent.
Have you received a reply from Cyrus ?
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Old 15th May 2013, 06:09 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
Have you received a reply from Cyrus ?
Don't be silly, ICANN won't have received authorisation from Verisign yet!
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Old 16th May 2013, 01:12 PM
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Re: ICANN' response to "IDN alias or confusion"

Quote:
Originally Posted by squirrel View Post
Have you received a reply from Cyrus ?
Not a squeak, not even a confirmation of receipt or anything.
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