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Old 10th March 2014, 10:31 AM
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PIR New gTLDs

Public Interest Registry's http://pir.org New gTLDs .机构, .组织机构 & .संगठन are now in DNS Root

André 小山 Schappo
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Old 10th March 2014, 03:56 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

http://domainincite.com/16010-pir-go...comment-page-1

Quote:
[...] there’s no grandfathering for existing .org registrants
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Old 10th March 2014, 05:52 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

From Domainincite referenced above:

"The gTLDs were .संगठन, which means “organization” in Hindi, and the Chinese .机构 and .组织机构, which seem to be two ways of saying “organization” too."

So in other words, PIR applied for "translations" of .orgs (and hence no grandfathering needed) while Verisign applied for "transliterations" of .coms and .nets and hence the grandfathering proposal from Verisign for existing registrants? If that is the case then things might be ok for us?

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 10th March 2014 at 05:55 PM..
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Old 10th March 2014, 08:33 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Got some questions:

1) how is .ком a translit and .орг is a translation?

2) in they application they did put
Quote:
These second-level IDNs, where the name (left of the dot) is in a Non-English language and the gTLD (right of the dot) remains in English, have been available for a number of years but only offer a partial solution for the language communities. Some languages, like Arabic, are written from right to left. IDNs at the second level are not very useful for the communities that use these languages because users would need to change both the type direction and script in the middle of entering a domain name. With this IDN gTLD application, we wish to provide a complete in-language domain name recognized as related to .ORG and a more elegant experience for the Internet user.
3) http://domainnamewire.com/2013/08/23...sliteration/1/
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Old 10th March 2014, 09:15 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by DktoInc View Post
Got some questions:

1) how is .ком a translit and .орг is a translation?

2) in they application they did put

3) http://domainnamewire.com/2013/08/23...sliteration/1/
Yeah I see your point on (1) for .орг which is a translit from .org but based on what you quoted it appears there was no explicit plan for PIR to give the IDN.IDN equivalents to existing registrants on their applications but Verisign did put that in theirs which is still being negotiated with other stakeholders.
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Old 10th March 2014, 09:51 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer View Post
Yeah I see your point on (1) for .орг which is a translit from .org but based on what you quoted it appears there was no explicit plan for PIR to give the IDN.IDN equivalents to existing registrants on their applications but Verisign did put that in theirs which is still being negotiated with other stakeholders.
Seems pretty dumb to expose yourself to endless litigation in implementing a business plan that is preordained to fail.
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Old 10th March 2014, 10:23 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer View Post
From Domainincite referenced above:

"The gTLDs were .संगठन, which means “organization” in Hindi, and the Chinese .机构 and .组织机构, which seem to be two ways of saying “organization” too."

So in other words, PIR applied for "translations" of .orgs (and hence no grandfathering needed) while Verisign applied for "transliterations" of .coms and .nets and hence the grandfathering proposal from Verisign for existing registrants? If that is the case then things might be ok for us?
in this way, i will only increase the language power of Chinese. i dont think the US government would approve it.

and it would be strange, when input the same .com or .net domain, when fly to China from USA, it changes in the address blank, which might be quite a shock. and even for the companies, do they need more trademarks?

anyway,keep it as what it always to be.
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Old 10th March 2014, 10:40 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer View Post
Yeah I see your point on (1) for .орг which is a translit from .org but based on what you quoted it appears there was no explicit plan for PIR to give the IDN.IDN equivalents to existing registrants on their applications but Verisign did put that in theirs which is still being negotiated with other stakeholders.

but the issue here is about translations.

as you see in point #3 they seem to be translits and all the sudden they became translations.
Quote:
Verisign and Public Interest Registry have successfully defended applications for internationalized domain names that are transliterations of existing top level domain names.
http://domainnamewire.com/2013/08/23...sliteration/1/

Last edited by DktoInc; 10th March 2014 at 11:06 PM..
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Old 10th March 2014, 11:53 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

http://www.wipo.int/export/sites/www...o2013-0067.pdf


even the WIPO panel is considering this as a transliteration

Quote:
The Panel finds that
the <
.орг
> gTLD is likely to be regarded as the Cyrillic transliteration of
the
<.
org
>
gTLD
.
The <.
org
> gTLD has been operated in good faith by the Respondent since
2003
.
In light of this, the
Panel is of the opinion that the offer by the Respondent to the public of the
<
.орг
>
gTLD
would be consistent
with the Respondent’s offering of services
under the
<.org> gTLD.


Last edited by DktoInc; 11th March 2014 at 12:27 AM..
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Old 11th March 2014, 12:53 AM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

That WIPO panel finding could be a useful tool for existing IDN.org owners who fail to get their legacy from PIR. Would make for an interesting UDRP case.
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Old 11th March 2014, 08:51 AM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Looks like a signed admission of guilt to me, which is usually pretty conclusive in legal cases unless coercion can be proven.

PIR would need to show that ICANN applied lighted splints to finger nails to get out of that one.

Of course ICANN could do the naughty child routine and plead that IPC made them do it, which show that publicly that this is a disreputable organisation based soley on self interest.
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Old 11th March 2014, 03:46 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
That WIPO panel finding could be a useful tool for existing IDN.org owners who fail to get their legacy from PIR. Would make for an interesting UDRP case.
Looks like PIR is opening themselves up to a possibility of a class action lawsuit from existing idn.org registrants by denying them their rights to corresponding idn.idn equivalents.

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 11th March 2014 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 11th March 2014, 05:22 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 11th March 2014 at 05:24 PM..
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Old 11th March 2014, 05:37 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer View Post
Looks like PIR is opening themselves up to a possibility of a class action lawsuit from existing idn.org registrants by denying them their rights to corresponding idn.idn equivalents.
Very possibly, but it will be limited to those of you that have invested in Dot Org. I am afraid I am not in your number.
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Old 11th March 2014, 08:52 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrafficDomainer View Post
Looks like PIR is opening themselves up to a possibility of a class action lawsuit from existing idn.org registrants by denying them their rights to corresponding idn.idn equivalents.
I think this is a simple case of the prize not being big enough.

VRSN know there is a large number of IDN.coms registered, therefore it is worth fighting for a grandfather clause, as they know they will ultimately end up having more IDNs registered if they maintain the integrity of matching "pairs" (ascii-com & idn-com). and of course fighting for the grandfather clause appeases the "class masses" you refer to.

PIR on the other hand.. the number of registered IDN.org is so small in comparison, they probably figured it's not worth fighting anyone for a grandfather clause - and besides, this also means very few people will lose out.

does anyone know exactly how many idn.org are registered in the applied for languages?

me.. I have just 2.
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Old 11th March 2014, 10:11 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
Very possibly, but it will be limited to those of you that have invested in Dot Org. I am afraid I am not in your number.
I don't have any idn.org domain either. But was just saying that's what current idn.org registrants with quality keywords could be contemplating if they feel it's worth the effort.

Last edited by TrafficDomainer; 11th March 2014 at 10:12 PM..
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Old 11th March 2014, 10:13 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha View Post
I think this is a simple case of the prize not being big enough.

VRSN know there is a large number of IDN.coms registered, therefore it is worth fighting for a grandfather clause, as they know they will ultimately end up having more IDNs registered if they maintain the integrity of matching "pairs" (ascii-com & idn-com). and of course fighting for the grandfather clause appeases the "class masses" you refer to.

PIR on the other hand.. the number of registered IDN.org is so small in comparison, they probably figured it's not worth fighting anyone for a grandfather clause - and besides, this also means very few people will lose out.

does anyone know exactly how many idn.org are registered in the applied for languages?

me.. I have just 2.
I agree.
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Old 12th March 2014, 02:59 AM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Probably easier for them to arrange for them to be quickly "registered" at the moment they go live and then offer them to the legacy registrants later.
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Old 12th March 2014, 03:19 PM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewbert View Post
Probably easier for them to arrange for them to be quickly "registered" at the moment they go live and then offer them to the legacy registrants later.
Date? Time?
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Old 13th March 2014, 03:51 AM
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Re: PIR New gTLDs

Date/time would be irrelevant, if registrars organised with PIR for some sort of special registration access for their existing customers with [IDN].org domains.

Since we can't approach registries directly as we are not their clients (and given PIR ignore us - so much for "public interest") our best option is probably contacting the registrars we use (maybe as a group) and asking them for help/suggestions.

Only other option that Icann think of would be an application to district court in Virginia freezing the process until PIR recognise registrants's right?
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