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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 26th July 2015, 03:27 PM
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Re: Verisign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post

But the biggy will be strict time limit on registration of TMs to srop gaming. Conceivably back as far as 2008. The may also be able to exclude generic terms.
that would be the only sane way to do it. But do you believe they manage to do it properly?
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Old 26th July 2015, 07:48 PM
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Re: Verisign

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Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
But the biggy will be strict time limit on registration of TMs to srop gaming. Conceivably back as far as 2008. The may also be able to exclude generic terms.
You are both right; that would be the only sane way to do things.

But as we have seen many times before, the sane way is not the ICANN way.

Verisign has agreed, under pressure, to sign ICANN's standard new gTLD contract. This means that during the Sunrise period, anyone with a valid entry in ICANN's Trademark Clearing House (TMCH) will be able to register the corresponding domain in Verisign's new IDN gTLDs.

The TMCH is fairly easily gamed. I'm not sure whether there are any time limits at all, and there is no prohibition against generic terms. If you have trademarked a word anywhere in the world, and can provide proof that it has been used in commerce (not too difficult), then you can put it into the TMCH.

So the question is not whether the Verisign Sunrise can be gamed; it can be. The question is whether anyone will bother.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 27th July 2015, 07:15 AM
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Re: Verisign

I think you have missed understood TMCH. I don't think it gives you automatic rights to anything apart from the right to apply for you own name during Sunrise. All applications have to go through adjudication and approval, and there was definitely something written in about a cut off date to avoid gaming.

The other thing is it appear that Verisign has caved in after long negotiation. However, the normal outcome of negotiations is some kind of quid pro quo. It is unlikely, however, that any deal is going to be discussed publicly, and that is very much the ICANN way, Transparency through SMOG.

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Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
You are both right; that would be the only sane way to do things.

But as we have seen many ties before, the sane way is not the ICANN way.

Verisign has agreed, under pressure, to sign ICANN's standard new gTLD contract. This means that during the Sunrise period, anyone with a valid entry in ICANN's Trademark Clearing House (TMCH) will be able to register the corresponding domain in Verisign's new IDN gTLDs.

The TMCH is fairly easily gamed. I'm not sure whether there are any time limits at all, and there is no prohibition against generic terms. If you have trademarked a word anywhere in the world, and can provide proof that it has been used in commerce (not too difficult), then you can put it into the TMCH.

So the question is not whether the Verisign Sunrise can be gamed; it can be. The question is whether anyone will bother.

Avtal
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Old 27th July 2015, 06:25 PM
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Re: Verisign

i think one thing, at least to me, is clear - IDNs are dead.

it doesnt matter if you own idn.com or will at some point own idn.idn or both - its dead! my guess is if you want to own idn.idn version you will get it pretty cheaply after its launched and that will be best proof of my point here that IDNs are dead. At mimimum anyone with half a brain will think 2x before committing any serious money to idn.idn given potential law suits and everthing that may stem from current idn.com holders (at least those who will still care to sue and not drop everything they own already).

some leasons in life are cheap, some are expensive - this one was a very expensive lesson, at least for me. i just hope i am better off after this not to make same dumb mistake 2x.

good luck to everyone
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Old 27th July 2015, 07:25 PM
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Re: Verisign

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Originally Posted by Emil View Post
i think one thing, at least to me, is clear - IDNs are dead.
I'm not hoping for much. I'd be happy with growth of 25X current revenue at this point.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 27th July 2015, 08:17 PM
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AW: Verisign

Quote:
domainnamewire.com Given that the IDN-as-transliteration sounds like “com”, it will create a lot of confusion if two different parties owned IDN.com and IDN.IDN-as-transliteration.
agree! its too confusing and the worst of all ideas! as 123 already said... it can not be undone

Quote:
domainnamewire.com [...]is designed to provide end users and businesses with the greatest flexibility[...]
lol! its designed to generate more fees - nothing more!

Quote:
domainnamewire.com Reading this discussion, it seems that perhaps Verisign is just letting a normal sunrise take place before offering a sort of matching opportunity to IDN.com owners.
wow, great! if no fake trademark owner wants your domain, then you are allowed to pay some premium price for your 10 years old name. if you can not afford it, who cares...



whose fault is all of this?

ICANNs!!!

these inflexible bureaucrats did not understand what they're doing!

i said this before... sticking to this trademark owner bullshit makes no sence in this case. trademark owners are already able to register their names. they also have a tool (UDRP) to get names back.

thanks to ICANNs stupidity, trademark owners now have to work through the TCMH process and have to pay more for all their names/trademarks!
but lets face it, most small and normal businesses didnt even know the nGtld programm, especially verisigns plans. they will have to deal with cybersquatters after sunrise. a circumstance which could have been avoided.


verisigns decision? i totally understand them...
they are sick of talking with these morons and from a business perspective its the more profitable way, but i still hope they remain fair and consider the following...

- no premium prices for existing .com/.net owners
- i think its not allows, but a grandfathering system like .UK would be great

Last edited by AWS; 27th July 2015 at 08:22 PM..
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Old 28th July 2015, 03:38 AM
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Re: Verisign

Well, I must say the .xxx situation makes me feel more comfortable that things may turn out OK. Apart from the trademark vultures circling about my head eyeing up my generics.
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Old 28th July 2015, 12:28 PM
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Re: Verisign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emil View Post
i think one thing, at least to me, is clear - IDNs are dead.
good luck to everyone
IDN.coms have been moving last 2-3 years. at least in Korean.


Last edited by hanidn; 28th July 2015 at 01:05 PM..
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 30th July 2015, 05:20 PM
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Re: Verisign

Reading between the lines, it sounds like the "secondary sunrise" may be our only opportunity to convert our IDN.com domains to IDN.com-in-IDN.

I say "only opportunigy" because Verisign's ambiguous conference call statements could imply that Verisign has given up on the idea of permanently locking each IDN.com domain to the corresponding IDN.com-in-IDN domain.

If this is the case, then once the Trademark Sunrise is over, Versign will (if we are lucky) hold a "secondary sunrise" for IDN.com registrants to register the corresponding IDN.com-in-IDN. Once the secondary sunrise is over, then (reading between the lines) all remaining IDN.com-in-IDN domains may be made available for registration by the general public. Including IDN.com-in-IDN domains for which someone else holds the corresponding IDN.com domain.

This means that when/if the secondary sunrise takes place, probably near the end of this year, you will need to have enough cash on hand to register all the IDN.com-in-IDN domains that correspond to your IDN.com domains, or at least the ones you want to keep. And over the following year you will have to decide whether to renew or drop the obsolete IDN.com domains, knowing that someone else might pick them up.

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Old 30th July 2015, 07:57 PM
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Re: Verisign

I think you need to stop hypothesising and study what Pat Kane said.
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Old 31st July 2015, 12:47 AM
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Re: Verisign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
I think you need to stop hypothesising and study what Pat Kane said.
It's also worth studying what James Bidzos, the CEO, said (I'm quoting from the domainnamewire article):

Quote:
Based primarily on feedback from domain name community stakeholders, we have revised our IDN launch strategy. We will offer these new IDN top-level domains as standalone domain names, subject to normal introductory availability and rights protection mechanisms, available to all new gTLDs. This revised approach will not require ICANN approval and is designed to provide end users and businesses with the greatest flexibility and, for registrars, a simple and straightforward framework to serve the market.
The phrase "We will offer these new IDN top-level domains as standalone domain names" could be significant; it sounds as though Verisign is moving away from the idea of bundling .com with .com-in-IDN. Or perhaps I am reading too much into Bidzos's CEO-speak.

In the transcript, besides the quotes that domainnamewire published, was another exchange that I found interesting:

Quote:
Sterling Auty - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Thanks. Hi, guys. Wondering first on the IDNs, will all of your IDNs roll out simultaneously? Or will it be a phased rollout beginning at the end of the year?

D. James Bidzos - Executive Chairman, President & CEO:
The rollout will be phased. We're not going to roll out all 11 at once. You shouldn't expect that we're going to sequentially space out 11 either. It'll be phased. It'll be based on a number of different considerations. Certainly, the size of each market, the complexity of each market, the opportunity as it exists will all be factors. But we can say that the rollout will begin before the end of the year.

Sterling Auty - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Is there any update on pricing that you're willing to give us at this point?

D. James Bidzos - Executive Chairman, President & CEO:
Only that we're still working on it. And that, as you know, we do have complete flexibility by each individual IDN and by each region. So, we also have the flexibility to utilize premium pricing. There are a number of different – of course, it's very different from the provisions of the dot-com registry agreements. So, we have tremendous flexibility. So, we are working through that. But I don't expect that to slow down the rollout. And it is a bit early for us to describe to you what that pricing will be.
So a phased rollout, starting before the end of the year. And possibly premium pricing.

I'm hypothesizing that there are interesting times ahead.

Avtal

Last edited by Avtal; 31st July 2015 at 12:48 AM..
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Old 31st July 2015, 02:37 AM
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Would a chinese simplified variant that has been blocked by the traditional chinese version, now be available when this proposed roll out is finished ?
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Old 31st July 2015, 02:42 AM
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Re: Verisign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
This means that when/if the secondary sunrise takes place, probably near the end of this year, you will need to have enough cash on hand to register all the IDN.com-in-IDN domains that correspond to your IDN.com domains, or at least the ones you want to keep. And over the following year you will have to decide whether to renew or drop the obsolete IDN.com domains, knowing that someone else might pick them up.
Avtal
.com may very well remain top dog, and the 'matching' new gtlds the second string for a long time to come.
If you have a great generic name, keeping both .com and acquiring the .comgtld may be the only good option to protect value of the name and keep all the traffic to your site, especially for names with significant type in.

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Old 31st July 2015, 04:35 AM
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Re: Verisign

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck View Post
I think you need to stop hypothesising and study what Pat Kane said.
Shit. Game over. What was it? $95 million in reg fees over the past 15 years?

Quote:
Patrick S. Kane - Senior Vice President, Naming and Directory Services

Well, definitely we would contemplate changing is to not hold a reservation for grandfathered dot-com registrations during the sunrise. And that's the modification that we were trying to get approval from ICANN on. And we've taken that out, so we can move forward.
I still have to re-read that first "sentence" a hundred more times... Is he saying... What is he saying?

Is Pat Kane a native English speaker?
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2015, 06:33 AM
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Re: Verisign

What he actually said, is that relunctantly they are going to have to switch off the link between the two registries during Sunrise, which implies that it will be switched back on afterwards. Of course, there may be things that are going to happen which he has not said, but then we down to Rumsfelds Unknown Unknowns, which in his case was just about everything apart from stuffing his own pockets.
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Old 31st July 2015, 06:34 AM
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Re: Verisign

Quote:
Originally Posted by sbe18 View Post
Would a chinese simplified variant that has been blocked by the traditional chinese version, now be available when this proposed roll out is finished ?
Posted via Mobile Device
No.
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Old 31st July 2015, 06:38 AM
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Re: Verisign

Yes, Bidzos phraseology was more worrying, but if he is anything like any CEO I have every worked for then he has not a clue what he is talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Avtal View Post
It's also worth studying what James Bidzos, the CEO, said (I'm quoting from the domainnamewire article):



The phrase "We will offer these new IDN top-level domains as standalone domain names" could be significant; it sounds as though Verisign is moving away from the idea of bundling .com with .com-in-IDN. Or perhaps I am reading too much into Bidzos's CEO-speak.

In the transcript, besides the quotes that domainnamewire published, was another exchange that I found interesting:



So a phased rollout, starting before the end of the year. And possibly premium pricing.

I'm hypothesizing that there are interesting times ahead.

Avtal
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 31st July 2015, 06:42 AM
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Re: Verisign

"And I would like Pat to comment further on that part of the process."

In other words " I am out of my depth and would like to hand over to somebody that knows what the fuck he is talking about."

Talk about premium pricing is worrying, but perhaps the strategy is going to be to completely price everyone out of the market during Sunrise.

He also states they are not all launching together. Gives us an opportunity to adjust our strategies, and perhaps them as well.
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Old 31st July 2015, 07:37 AM
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Re: Verisign

Thank you.

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Old 31st July 2015, 07:54 AM
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Re: Verisign

I have to agree with blast here, it's game over.

never mind what we individually might or might not get after all this sunrise BS... the bottom line is that we need traction and mass adoption and trust in these new gtlds. That will never happen when different owners have the potential to own the exact same sounding domain.ext.

This latest move by Verisign is nothing more than commercial damage limitation to recoup their outlay
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