IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names  
Home | Advertise on idnforums | Premium Membership

Go Back   IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names > IDN Discussions > General Discussion

General Discussion Feel free to talk about anything and everything in this board.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 12:21 PM
mulligan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,253
iTrader: (78)
Rep Power: 2026
mulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enough
Strange Greek punycode?

Names taken from Namepros

Example:
ταινίες.net - films.net --> Punycode --> xn--kxadnou2bb (According to blue rider and domainsite)

Now, if you enter the punycode back into blue rider or domainsite it is returning the unicode as --> ταινίεσ.net.
It is changing the last letter ς to an σ

Essentially it is returning the same punycode for ταινίες.net and ταινίεσ.net

Same for
διακοπέσ.net --> Punycode is xn--ixahiug4ahz
διακοπές.net --> Punycode is xn--ixahiug4ahz

These return vastly different google results...

These two letters share the same punycode:
ς --> xn--4xa
σ --> xn--4xa

Whats up with that?

Last edited by mulligan; 21st June 2006 at 12:31 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 12:27 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4507
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Well as it the punycode you are registering, you would appear to be getting two for the price of one!

This doesn't seem to be a DS problem. If you try Verisign, same results:

http://mct.verisign-grs.com/conversi...F%82&type=UTF8
__________________
All offers to sell are void.

Last edited by Rubber Duck; 21st June 2006 at 12:34 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 12:36 PM
mulligan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,253
iTrader: (78)
Rep Power: 2026
mulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enough
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Only thing is it is showing up in my account as the least popular name!

xn--ixahiug4ahz is showing as διακοπέσ instead of διακοπές

Google for διακοπέσ --> 92
Google for διακοπές --> 1,303,000

Guess which one is showing up!
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 12:38 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4507
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan
Only thing is it is showing up in my account as the least popular name!

xn--ixahiug4ahz is showing as διακοπέσ instead of διακοπές

Google for διακοπέσ --> 92
Google for διακοπές --> 1,303,000

Guess which one is showing up!
Probably doesn't matter if the popular one resolves OK!
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 01:31 PM
yanni's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,220
iTrader: (34)
Rep Power: 1149
yanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to yanni Send a message via Skype™ to yanni
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Check the Namepros thread for answer.
It has been covered here in the past as well.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 01:41 PM
mulligan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,253
iTrader: (78)
Rep Power: 2026
mulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enough
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Thanks yanni
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 01:50 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4507
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

If there is something useful to share could you summarise it here?
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 02:09 PM
yanni's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,220
iTrader: (34)
Rep Power: 1149
yanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to yanni Send a message via Skype™ to yanni
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Yes, basically the "ς" is the sigma "σ" at the end of a word. When regging a Greek domain that ends in "s" you get both versions treated as the same, even though the correct spelling version is with the "ς".

The capital version of both s's is "Σ"

A Greek would never type the σ at the end of a word, except by mistake, since on the english keyboard the "σ" falls on the english "s", and someone switching back and forth could easily hit the key.

All in all, nothing to worry about even though Domaisite shows you having the incorrect version.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:16 PM
bramiozo's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Haarlem
Posts: 2,251
iTrader: (30)
Rep Power: 928
bramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to bramiozo Send a message via Skype™ to bramiozo
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

My punyconverter gives;

διακοπέσ.net -xn--ixahiug4ahz.net
διακοπές.net -xn--ixahiug4ahr.net

ς - xn--3xa
σ - xn--4xa

ταινίες.net - xn--kxadnou6ai.net

Last edited by bramiozo; 21st June 2006 at 03:18 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:20 PM
Rubber Duck's Avatar
Veteran
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Czech Republic (For those of you from USA = Chechnya)
Posts: 15,929
iTrader: (59)
Rep Power: 4507
Rubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura aboutRubber Duck has a spectacular aura about
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bramiozo
My punyconverter gives;

διακοπέσ.net -xn--ixahiug4ahz.net
διακοπές.net -xn--ixahiug4ahr.net

ς - xn--3xa
σ - xn--4xa

ταινίες.net - xn--kxadnou6ai.net
It maybe that you need to update Unicode Tables once in a while?
__________________
All offers to sell are void.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:45 PM
bramiozo's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Haarlem
Posts: 2,251
iTrader: (30)
Rep Power: 928
bramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to bramiozo Send a message via Skype™ to bramiozo
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
It maybe that you need to update Unicode Tables once in a while?
The standards haven't changed and I doubt that the several punyconverters I have tried are linked to a table that is regularly updated. It translates the punycodes into the correct unicode, but not vice versa so it seems.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 03:50 PM
mulligan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 4,253
iTrader: (78)
Rep Power: 2026
mulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enoughmulligan will become famous soon enough
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

I cant seem to find a whois for διακοπές.net -xn--ixahiug4ahr.net even though it is showing as 'Taken' (I have registered διακοπέσ.net -xn--ixahiug4ahz.net)
So is this a case similar to the Chinese variant or am I not using a decent whois tool?
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 04:16 PM
Armadillo's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 62
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 493
Armadillo is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

I ran into this with my term xn--qxaegecap4c9d.com (ελληνικόσ.com) : Greek
in Greek.

to get the punycode listed above I typed in ελληνικός:

Description Type Result
Input String UTF8 ελληνικός
Prepared String RACE bq--ao23xo5xxw43vtgd
Prepared String PUNYCODE xn--qxaegecap4c9d

What happens is that in the greek language the sigma character changes from ς to σ when another character follows the sigma, so when you add the .com it makes the sigma change from ς to the σ to be gramatically correct. The punycode is therefore mapped to both forms of the character and the word.

Armadillo
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 04:43 PM
yanni's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,220
iTrader: (34)
Rep Power: 1149
yanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished roadyanni is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to yanni Send a message via Skype™ to yanni
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo

What happens is that in the greek language the sigma character changes from ς to σ when another character follows the sigma, so when you add the .com it makes the sigma change from ς to the σ to be gramatically correct. The punycode is therefore mapped to both forms of the character and the word.

Armadillo
In Modern Greek the sigma is the σ.
This changes to ς when it appears at the end of a word. This is called the "ending sigma" or "τελικό σίγμα" which also happens to be the original Ancient Greek sigma.

Both sigma's capital is Σ, hence the mapping, I believe.
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 04:46 PM
bramiozo's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Haarlem
Posts: 2,251
iTrader: (30)
Rep Power: 928
bramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to bramiozo Send a message via Skype™ to bramiozo
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

That's probably correct but now I have to change the mapping in the puny-converter....
Reply With Quote
  #16 (permalink)  
Old 21st June 2006, 04:58 PM
Armadillo's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 62
iTrader: (1)
Rep Power: 493
Armadillo is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Yanni, that is correct. What I was trying to emphasize was that your idn will show the σ since you added the .com after it which will make it appear you have the less popular form of the word which is not the case since you have both forms mapped to the idn.


Armadillo
Reply With Quote
  #17 (permalink)  
Old 22nd June 2006, 06:18 PM
bramiozo's Avatar
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Haarlem
Posts: 2,251
iTrader: (30)
Rep Power: 928
bramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished roadbramiozo is on a distinguished road
Send a message via MSN to bramiozo Send a message via Skype™ to bramiozo
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

I updated my puny-converter, it seems to check out now.
Reply With Quote
  #18 (permalink)  
Old 30th June 2006, 04:38 AM
ctc ctc is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 35
iTrader: (0)
Rep Power: 484
ctc is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Strange Greek punycode?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligan
Names taken from Namepros

These two letters share the same punycode:
ς --> xn--4xa
σ --> xn--4xa

Whats up with that?
Yes Like Yannis explained ealier the "ς" is the sigma "σ" at the end of a word.

Both Resolve the same to domains . two in one

Goto www.σ.com and www.ς.com and www.Σ.com they all resolve the same (www.xn--4xa.com)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:09 PM.

Site Sponsors
Your ad here
buy t-shirt
מחיר הזהב

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0
Copyright idnforums.com 2005

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54