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Old 24th June 2006, 01:42 AM
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Will China be the premier market for domains?

Found this surfing around DNJournal, still in their archives. None the less, interesting reading (written by sedo 2003).

http://www.dnjournal.com/columns/china.htm
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Old 24th June 2006, 01:58 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Found this surfing around DNJournal, still in their archives. None the less, interesting reading (written by sedo 2003).

http://www.dnjournal.com/columns/china.htm
Its a great Read and shows awesome potential in that market place , I say they have the population But Japan has the Big Money ,,, Just my opinion , But they are both Awesome Markets to be vested in , I was just reading this article 20 minutes ago
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Old 24th June 2006, 02:08 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

The data quoted in this article is more than 1 year old:

Quote:
According to statistics released by the China Internet Network Information Center, China, with nearly 80 million Internet users
Current Chinese internet users: more than 112 M.

Quote:
Currently, experts estimate that less than 800.000 generic (.com/.net) plus a few hundred thousand .cn domain names have been registered by Chinese people.
Dotcom and Dotnet registration is over 1M now.
Dot CN registration is over 1M now.

A lot of improvements have been done to the internet in the last year.
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Old 24th June 2006, 02:13 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
The data quoted in this article is more than 1 year old:
Current Chinese internet users: more than 112 M.
Dotcom and Dotnet registration is over 1M now.
Dot CN registration is over 1M now.
A lot of improvements have been done to the internet in the last year.
The article is well over 2 years old, maybe closer to 3. I noted that at beginning, but was a good read.

30,000,000 new Chinese internet users in that space of time is an amazing number, thats at least 10- 12 million per year, the size of the entire population of the country of Greece (using that as an example of population size).

Last edited by bwhhisc; 24th June 2006 at 02:16 AM..
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Old 24th June 2006, 03:15 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegenius1
Its a great Read and shows awesome potential in that market place , I say they have the population But Japan has the Big Money ,,, Just my opinion , But they are both Awesome Markets to be vested in , I was just reading this article 20 minutes ago
China's internet market will be much bigger than Japan's.

My estimate, Chinese IDN domain market will be 4 times larger than Japanese IDN.

Let's do some comparison:

-Japan is a very small (in terms of land) country with about 130M people, all live concentrating in Tokyo area. Overseas Japanese don't have a tight connection with Japan and won't be using Japanese IDNs.

-China has a large boundery, population of 10 times of Japan spread quite evenly in many large cities. Besides China, Chinese in Taiwan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Southeast Asia, Indonesia, Malaysia, the Phillipines, North America, Europe... all will use Chinese IDN.

-1% of the Japanese companies (like Toyota, Sony ...) accounted for more than 50% of manufactured products in Japan and they don't need a lot of domains because the company's own domains are what they need.

-Japanese know their neighbourhood well, and like to choose what they already know. If they are looking for a hybrid car, they just go directly to Toyota or Honda sites. You have less chance to sell them your Japanese IDN [hybridcar].com domain. If they are looking for hybrid car out side of Japan, they would go to Ascii domain website.

-The real estate company in Tokyo is probably the same company in a XX smaller city.

-China has very few nation wide large companies. Because different province speak different dialect, local people want to support their own companies. We have less chance to see a company doing business in many other cities. Consequently, the demand for IDN domains is larger.

So, the characteristics of too much concentration makes the demand for Japanese IDN domains less.

Here, look at the Google trends for the term Real Estate VS CityRealEstate between Japan and China.

不動産, 東京不動産, 大阪不動産, 京都不動産

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E4%B...eo=JP&date=all

房地产, 上海房地产, 北京房地产, 深圳房地产

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E6%8...eo=CN&date=all

We can see, the use of the less important terms 上海房地产, 北京房地产, 深圳房地产 is quite a lot, but of 東京不動産, 大阪不動産 is little. So the need for average IDN domains in China is bigger.
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Last edited by Giant; 24th June 2006 at 04:51 AM..
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Old 24th June 2006, 03:30 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
China's internet market will be much bigger than Japan's.

My estimate, Chinese IDN domain market will be 4 times larger than Japanese IDN.

Let's do some comparison:

.
I agree with you that the search volume will be alot more because ofcourse they have what 1.9 billion more people , but my Point was, to my Knowledge Japan will spend more money ateast in the short-run,
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Old 24th June 2006, 03:42 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegenius1
I agree with you that the search volume will be alot more because ofcourse they have what 1.9 billion more people , but my Point was, to my Knowledge Japan will spend more money ateast in the short-run,
No doubt, if you have a good Japanese IDN, you will earn a lot of ppc revenue.

But my point is rather on the strategy of regging Japanese IDNs. Because Japanese IDN will be used on some islands with the population concentrating in Tokyo area, they don't need a lot of domain names. But any one that is chosen to be used will become very expensive. 不動産.com or 不動産.jp will worth not less than ASCII RealEstate.com.

In other words, an average Chinese IDN will worth some money but an average Japanese IDN could worth nothing.

Note: I use real estate City domain to give examples, but I don't mean they are worthless, Google trends do not have all the data yet. Real estate terms are important in both China and Japan, they are good for comparison purpose.

At this time, the number of registrations of Japanese IDN is probably greater than that of Chinese IDN, because everybody thinks Japan is the second largest economy of the world.
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Last edited by Giant; 24th June 2006 at 05:08 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 24th June 2006, 04:50 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Giant there a few things that's not too obvious.

Many foreign companies do not let the Japanese companies have an official Japan site that the Japan office controls... So they create campaign sites.

Many companies at first had co.jp but switched to .jp when it became available & they did register related domains. IDNs are the final step to good domains.

Overture Japan has rules & regulations they make advertisers go through in Japan for certain markets. Making campaign sites really benefits online strategies.

Many companies in Japan already do spend on making campaign sites for users for added brand awareness.

This is certainly not about PPC. The online market in Japan is still developing too. The SEO value of IDN Domains also make it a too valuable asset.

But you are right there is no close connection with Japanese after they leave Japan. So/So IDNs I'm not sure but after the aftermarket is developped in Japan it's anyones guess. I personally try to keep people focusing on commercial registrations. These should certainly do well on the aftermarket.
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Old 24th June 2006, 05:22 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
I personally try to keep people focusing on commercial registrations. These should certainly do well on the aftermarket.
Actually, I agree with you, and my view is no different from yours.

You choose domains base on the commercial market, and that's the real need.

Some people using ASCII domain strategy for Japanese domains is a mistake, because Japanese will not consume that many domains.
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Old 24th June 2006, 05:53 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

China will be the premier market for Chinese idns.
Japan will be the premier market for Japanese idns.

When I live in China, I think China is the centre of the world.
When I live in Japan, I think that Japan is no doubt the world centre.

Comparing Chinese and Japanese idns is like comapring house price and demanding between a large populated poor city and a big super rich city.

Last edited by markits; 24th June 2006 at 06:10 AM..
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Old 24th June 2006, 06:48 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by markits
China will be the premier market for Chinese idns.
Japan will be the premier market for Japanese idns.

When I live in China, I think China is the centre of the world.
When I live in Japan, I think that Japan is no doubt the world centre.

Comparing Chinese and Japanese idns is like comapring house price and demanding between a large populated poor city and a big super rich city.
Markits missed the point. I meant the number of Chinese IDN domains to be used will be larger than Japanese IDN.

Exalple:

[NationalMuseum].com

In Japan, Japanese see a Japanese IDN [NationalMuseum].com, they have no doubt it means the museum in Japan.

But in China, that's not the case, Chinese IDN [NationalMuseum].com can mean a museum in Taiwan (by a Taiwanese). You will have no problem seeing a lot of names in China start with "中国", "China Natianal Museum", "China ...", this is very different from what you see in other countries.

Why? Because 1.3 billion Chinese in mainland China are always aware that there are another 100 million Chinese living overseas, and they are the quite influential ones. And there's also such need to clearly indicate the museum in China or the one in Taiwan or the one in U.S.. When a US Chinese says [NationalMuseum] he means the museum in US, not the one in China.

So, in a very near future, you will see these Chinese IDN registered:

ChinaNationalMuseum.com (used in China)
TaiwanNationalMuseum.com (used in Taiwan)
ThailandNationalMuseum.com (used in Thailand)
SingaporeNationalMuseum.com (used in Singapore)
VietnamNationalMuseum.com (used in Vietnam)
USNationalMuseum.com (used in US)
CanadianNationalMuseum.com (used in Canada)

...

BUT only one Japanese IDN [NationalMuseum].com is enough.
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Last edited by Giant; 24th June 2006 at 06:58 AM..
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Old 24th June 2006, 09:20 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

I tend to agree with Giant's comments but feel they need to be combined with arguments relating to language structure. The Chinese people are going to need a lot of domains, but the language does not lend itself to the generation of a lot of derivatives, as English does. For this this reason it is clear that the Chinese can support many different extensions. The Chinese are launching one for each Province. This will have two effects, I believe. It will greatly increase the value of dot com and it will mean that Chinese Province domains will be very valuable.
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Last edited by Rubber Duck; 24th June 2006 at 09:24 AM..
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Old 24th June 2006, 09:43 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
I tend to agree with Giant's comments but feel they need to be combined with arguments relating to language structure. The Chinese people are going to need a lot of domains, but the language does not lend itself to the generation of a lot of derivatives, as English does. For this this reason it is clear that the Chinese can support many different extensions. The Chinese are launching one for each Province. This will have two effects, I believe. It will greatly increase the value of dot com and it will mean that Chinese Province domains will be very valuable.

I feel a 'Chinese Province' auction coming up
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Old 24th June 2006, 09:54 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
I feel a 'Chinese Province' auction coming up
Sorry, I am afraid I am going to have to disappoint you there.
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Old 24th June 2006, 10:38 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
Because different province speak different dialect, local people want to support their own companies. We have less chance to see a company doing business in many other cities. Consequently, the demand for IDN domains is larger.
Giant, when you say different provinces speak different dialects, how different are these in terms of everyday reading, or being able to understand each others way of writing or speaking. Is this why there are many different ways to say- for instance "hotel"
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Old 24th June 2006, 10:40 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

That will be a long term thing, maybe 6-8 years from now.

IMO, still too early to talk about it.

Last edited by touchring; 24th June 2006 at 10:45 AM..
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Old 24th June 2006, 10:49 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Giant, when you say different provinces speak different dialects, how different are these in terms of everyday reading, or being able to understand each others way of writing or speaking. Is this why there are many different ways to say- for instance "hotel"
As I understand it, written Chinese was almost universal before the Simplification in the PRC. Although different dialects and indeed Japanese are linguistically quite different, the graphical representations are more less universally understood. Of course there is some local vocabulary, just as there is in English, and words are more or less popular in some regions than others.
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Old 24th June 2006, 10:58 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
As I understand it, written Chinese was almost universal before the Simplification in the PRC. Although different dialects and indeed Japanese are linguistically quite different, the graphical representations are more less universally understood. Of course there is some local vocabulary, just as there is in English, and words are more or less popular in some regions than others.
Are you referring to the "basic" 3000-5000 Chinese symbols (amounts I remember from earlier IDNF threads) that are the basis for everyday communication and building blocks of majority of used words, with the other 95,000 plus symbols being shared or used in different dialects? Wondering about the effect on idns or website content, providing an opportunity to being somewhat customized to each dialect? This supports the points Giant was making about way more use of idns.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 24th June 2006 at 11:06 AM..
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Old 24th June 2006, 11:03 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhhisc
Are you referring to the "basic" 3000-5000 Chinese symbols (amounts I remember from earlier IDNF threads) that are the basis for everyday communication and building blocks of majority of used words, with the other 95,000 plus symbols being shared or used in different dialects? Wondering about the effect on idns or website content, or the point Giant was making about way more use of idns.
Yes, I thing you can consider that the top 5000 symbols will be universally understood, with a large part of the remainder being attributable to local dialects. Obviously, this is massive generalisation, but I think it is useful model to help understanding of the overall picture.
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Old 24th June 2006, 11:15 AM
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Re: Will China be the premier market for domains?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Yes, I thing you can consider that the top 5000 symbols will be universally understood, with a large part of the remainder being attributable to local dialects. Obviously, this is massive generalisation, but I think it is useful model to help understanding of the overall picture.
Reminded me of the "almost Fraudulent idn transaction" thread where native Chinese speakers could not agree on the word "Moonlight". Many from here, were there...they were referrring to an idn I had purchased that Nameslave, a native Chinese speaker felt was fraudulent. Other native speakers had opposite opinions of translation and value.
http://www.dnforum.com/showthread.ph...ight=moonlight

Last edited by bwhhisc; 24th June 2006 at 11:39 AM..
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