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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 5th July 2006, 10:19 AM
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Re: Extensions, Type-ins, Value

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
Interesting, but are you actually saying you *know* Chinese people use Ctrl-Enter frequently, or just your research suggest that is likely? Because there is always more than one explanation for everything

Seems strange to me anyone would type an ASCII domain name, and then have "difficulty" typing .com ... surely that is the easy part?

Also, even if it is true that the Chinese use Ctrl-Enter, it sounds like a Chinese-only
thing to me. I've never seen a Thai use Ctrl-Enter, and like others, I had never even heard of this "shortcut" until I came to this forum.

I personally find it faster to type .com than press some alt or ctrl key, but Giant brought up a point no one else brought up to date - that is the transition from .com.cn to .cn. .com.cn came about first, and most people still have the habit of typing .com.cn. It's like sina.com.cn, most people are used to typing that .com.cn. The same case for .co.jp versus .jp.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 5th July 2006, 10:37 AM
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Re: Extensions, Type-ins, Value

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
I personally find it faster to type .com than press some alt or ctrl key, but Giant brought up a point no one else brought up to date - that is the transition from .com.cn to .cn. .com.cn came about first, and most people still have the habit of typing .com.cn. It's like sina.com.cn, most people are used to typing that .com.cn. The same case for .co.jp versus .jp.
I am asking a very simple question here. Does Giant "know" that Chinese people use Ctrl-Enter extensively, or is it an educated guess? The two are not the same.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 5th July 2006, 10:48 AM
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Re: Extensions, Type-ins, Value

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
I am asking a very simple question here. Does Giant "know" that Chinese people use Ctrl-Enter extensively, or is it an educated guess? The two are not the same.

Yes, and do we know that he knows or are we just making an educated guess that his is making an educated guess? Only Giant can answer that one!
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 5th July 2006, 05:10 PM
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Re: Extensions, Type-ins, Value

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
Interesting, but are you actually saying you *know* Chinese people use Ctrl-Enter frequently, or just your research suggest that is likely? Because there is always more than one explanation for everything

Seems strange to me anyone would type an ASCII domain name, and then have "difficulty" typing .com ... surely that is the easy part?

Also, even if it is true that the Chinese use Ctrl-Enter, it sounds like a Chinese-only
thing to me. I've never seen a Thai use Ctrl-Enter, and like others, I had never even heard of this "shortcut" until I came to this forum.
Ctrl-Enter is a hot topic among Chinese IE users, you can find a lot of posts in Chinese forums talking about this feature. I also saw the Chinese use this feature often when I was in China 2001 - 2002.

That's what I saw, but what's the number of people that use it, I tried to find out. And the traffic from my domains ASCII.cn, ASCII.com.cn, and IDN.com in the last 3 years as I stated above show Chinese do use Ctrl-Enter frequently.

2 more supports for my conclusion:

-Google started using google.cn for Chinese Google site since last year, most Chinese know that. But Google still doesn't get much traffic from google.cn, most of its traffic is still from google.com. Reason --> people are used to Ctrl-Enter, and google.com.cn is redirected to google.com (NOT .cn).

-For finding out this, I purposely regged a popular US telecom company name xxxxx.com.cn in 2003. This company didn't have business in China, but some Chinese are familiar with its name. I got more than 100 hits per month on xxxxx.com.cn, about half of the hits were from North America and another half from China. Now how to explain this? Actually, the hits were all accidental by pressing Ctrl-Enter from 2 groups of people. 1) Some people in China tried to access this company at xxxxx.com. 2) Some Chinese in North America (from China) still using that copy of Chinese Windows 2000.

If it's not by pressing Ctrl-Enter, it's hard to explain why people would type .com.cn extention for a US telephone company (in US). You may try to argue that most Chinese are too used to TYPING .COM.CN extention, but in fact, .COM is more popular in China.

As long as that copy of Chinese Windows 2000 is still being popular (it IS right now), .COM.CN will still get most of the traffic.
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Last edited by Giant; 5th July 2006 at 05:15 PM..
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 6th July 2006, 03:01 AM
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Re: Extensions, Type-ins, Value

This perhaps supports your argument in a way.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=googl...eo=CN&date=all

And if that (Ctrl-Enter) were the case, the stakes are extremely high on what IE7 would resolve to. I suspect the results would be extreme - if IE7 is favorable, .com chinese IDNs would sky rocket else there is a danger that it might lose out to other extensions.

Another (Ctrl-Enter) thingy that reflects here is that .com chinese IDNs would not then depend on the outcome of IDN.IDN. However at the same time, one question that arises here is, if DNAME is NOT preferred over the OTHER stuff, then the situation might be totally screwed. Where will the browser land then????


Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
Ctrl-Enter is a hot topic among Chinese IE users, you can find a lot of posts in Chinese forums talking about this feature. I also saw the Chinese use this feature often when I was in China 2001 - 2002.

That's what I saw, but what's the number of people that use it, I tried to find out. And the traffic from my domains ASCII.cn, ASCII.com.cn, and IDN.com in the last 3 years as I stated above show Chinese do use Ctrl-Enter frequently.

2 more supports for my conclusion:

-Google started using google.cn for Chinese Google site since last year, most Chinese know that. But Google still doesn't get much traffic from google.cn, most of its traffic is still from google.com. Reason --> people are used to Ctrl-Enter, and google.com.cn is redirected to google.com (NOT .cn).

-For finding out this, I purposely regged a popular US telecom company name xxxxx.com.cn in 2003. This company didn't have business in China, but some Chinese are familiar with its name. I got more than 100 hits per month on xxxxx.com.cn, about half of the hits were from North America and another half from China. Now how to explain this? Actually, the hits were all accidental by pressing Ctrl-Enter from 2 groups of people. 1) Some people in China tried to access this company at xxxxx.com. 2) Some Chinese in North America (from China) still using that copy of Chinese Windows 2000.

If it's not by pressing Ctrl-Enter, it's hard to explain why people would type .com.cn extention for a US telephone company (in US). You may try to argue that most Chinese are too used to TYPING .COM.CN extention, but in fact, .COM is more popular in China.

As long as that copy of Chinese Windows 2000 is still being popular (it IS right now), .COM.CN will still get most of the traffic.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 6th July 2006, 05:52 AM
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Re: Extensions, Type-ins, Value

Quote:
Originally Posted by drbiohealth
And if that (Ctrl-Enter) were the case, the stakes are extremely high on what IE7 would resolve to. I suspect the results would be extreme - if IE7 is favorable, .com chinese IDNs would sky rocket else there is a danger that it might lose out to other extensions.
Yes, the stakes are extreme, that's why I am a bit careful in regging IDN.coms. I started collecting traffic revenue from Chinese IDN.coms 3 years ago. At first it's not much, but I got about $1,000 - $2,000 around the end of 2004, and more in 2005. SilverClicks started in September 2005, and IDN traffic revenue is getting even better. In July 2005, I prepare a list of 2000 names but did not reg them because I was not sure where Ctrl-Enter would point to. This is the only problem I care, I don't worry about China would split the internet, they won't. Now 95% of names in that list are taken (not by me).

I started using Ctrl-Enter in 1997, I know very well why Chinese like to use this feature but not good typers in English speaking world, but it's too long a story to tell

Quote:
... if DNAME is NOT preferred over the OTHER stuff, then the situation might be totally screwed. Where will the browser land then????
If DNAME is not doable, then 2 possibilities:

1) People will try to set up hundreds "XN--" TLDs as we heard last week. Obviously, there will be no technical problem with this option if the Root can take long name domains. BUT US DOC will not approve it at the final moment, I can tell by the tones of some people at ICANN.

2) People will set up hundreds of "XN--" TLDs just to resolve and redirect IDNs. Technically, these TLDs are no different from .NET or .INFO..., but legally, they are not legal registries and they don't take registration for names. The only job they do is to forward traffics, so they don't need the "approval" from DOC.

If option 2) is what we will get, then no need to worry where the browser will land.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 6th July 2006, 06:06 AM
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Re: Extensions, Type-ins, Value

Quote:
Originally Posted by Giant
Yes, the stakes are extreme, that's why I am a bit careful in regging IDN.coms. I started collecting traffic revenue from Chinese IDN.coms 3 years ago. At first it's not much, but I got about $1,000 - $2,000 around the end of 2004, and more in 2005. SilverClicks started in September 2005, and IDN traffic revenue is getting even better. In July 2005, I prepare a list of 2000 names but did not reg them because I was not sure where Ctrl-Enter would point to. This is the only problem I care, I don't worry about China would split the internet, they won't. Now 95% of names in that list are taken (not by me).

I started using Ctrl-Enter in 1997, I know very well why Chinese like to use this feature but not good typers in English speaking world, but it's too long a story to tell



If DNAME is not doable, then 2 possibilities:

1) People will try to set up hundreds "XN--" TLDs as we heard last week. Obviously, there will be no technical problem with this option if the Root can take long name domains. BUT US DOC will not approve it at the final moment, I can tell by the tones of some people at ICANN.

2) People will set up hundreds of "XN--" TLDs just to resolve and redirect IDNs. Technically, these TLDs are no different from .NET or .INFO..., but legally, they are not legal registries and they don't take registration for names. The only job they do is to forward traffics, so they don't need the "approval" from DOC.

If option 2) is what we will get, then no need to worry where the browser will land.


Ctrl-Enter is an interesting finding, and will make idn.idn for Chinese dispensable since there's no need to switch keys.

Here's an anonymous survey to find out what people are using, multiple selections allowed - http://www.idnforums.com/forums/4729...n-for-idn.html

Last edited by touchring; 6th July 2006 at 06:13 AM..
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