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日本語ドメイン Discussion for Japan IDN Domain names. Japanese IDNs are available in .com .net & .jp

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Old 18th July 2006, 12:54 AM
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The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

I firmly believe that domains that get traffic are all indexed in search engines. As users do searches time to time these domains show up in search results.

When we park at NameDrive, Sedo etc. Only IP addresses in Japan will show ads in Japanese (usually)

The huge problem I see is. The crawlers (spiders) from Google, MSN, & Yahoo (Japan) all have non Japan IPs.

The search engines are picking up the pages with English ads!!!

This means that the Japanese search engines are getting cached pages with English text (mainly)...

I've just gone over to see some of my domains, to see what was cachedd in the search engines (on the Japanese search engines). It's the English ad pages...

One of my IDNs that have high OVT, listed in Yahoo & has just 4 pages not really optimized still gets about 15 unique viewers a day from just Yahoo Japan.

If the crawlers picked up pages with Japanese ads & content it would severly increase traffic....

Perhaps we should inform Sedo & NameDrive about this.
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:00 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Olney, that is a brilliant find and I have been challenged by just this problem. Now I understand why I'm not getting indexed as my english domains are. Now can Namedrive address this problem. Is it difficult to provide crawlers with content based on country of origin of the crawler?

Would seem like the hardware solution to that is cost-prohibitive right now.
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:00 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney

Perhaps we should inform Sedo & NameDrive about this.
Withought a Doubt ! I predict NameDriver will be signing in any minute Now
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:03 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Thinking about it.
China has Baidu, which has it's own crawlers. These crawlers might have China based IPs.
They are probably caching Chinese pages with ads (someone in China can confirm this).

With Japan traffic should come from Yahoo first then Google, then Goo, or MSN.
All are Japan extension of US search engines...
All the technology is US based for search.
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:04 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
Thinking about it.
China has Baidu, which has it's own crawlers. These crawlers might have China based IPs.
They are probably caching Chinese pages with ads (someone in China can confirm this).

With Japan traffic should come from Yahoo first then Google, then Goo, or MSN.
All are Japan extension of US search engines...
All the technology is US based for search.
Is that true for Goo too? I thought Goo was Japan-based, no?
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:07 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

No Goo is owned by NTT but search results are just provided by Google.
Biglobe also
Ask.jp is independent but I believe the crawlers would be US based too.

There is no major Japan based search engine.
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:08 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
Is that true for Goo too? I thought Goo was Japan-based, no?
Goo is Japan based and owned by NTT.

I don't think they have a significant market share compared to the other heavy weights.
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:10 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
No Goo is owned by NTT but search results are just provided by Google.
Biglobe also
Ask.jp is independent but I believe the crawlers would be US based too.

There is no major Japan based search engine.
In that case, the best solution seems to be for Namedrive to allow people to set their parked domains content to only a single country. In the case of Japanese domains, to show "Japanese content" regardless of the IP of the crawler. Does that seem feasible?
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:11 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

The crawlers SHOULD be telling the web server what language they want to see, and the parking sites SHOULD be bringing up content and adverts based on the language requested.

Clearly, this isn't happening.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
In that case, the best solution seems to be for Namedrive to allow people to set their parked domains content to only a single country. In the case of Japanese domains, to show "Japanese content" regardless of the IP of the crawler. Does that seem feasible?
That would be great, for most domains. Especially if you could quickly set it per-folder at ND.
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Last edited by Drewbert; 18th July 2006 at 01:13 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:13 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Goo shouldn't be underestimated.
NTT has major funds & power.
Goo is still used by many.
I still use it too for the services.
When Goo was launched they did major advertising in Japan.

Most things owned by NTT are major projects in Japan. NTT also bought Verio...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Goo is Japan based and owned by NTT.

I don't think they have a significant market share compared to the other heavy weights.
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Old 18th July 2006, 01:19 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Those solutions should be good.
I think that since this is new & international SEO is not what most companies are familiar with.
I mean I could care less if crawlers crawled the Enghlish ads. They should be able to tell crawlers what ads to see. (theoretically)

All my significant clicks are coming from Japan anyway.
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Old 18th July 2006, 04:23 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Hmm, a very good observation. This is a very significant issue. I would also like to hear NameDrive's reply.

I know that I asked in an earlier thread about forcing Japanese ads to show in all regions regardless of IP. (I gave the example of a Japanese person living in Paris, but typing in a Japanese term. They would expect a Japanese result, not French.) I think NameDrive originally replied that this is an issue they have to work out with the company that is feeding the ads, so it's not entirely or directly under NameDrive's control.

I just tested some of my parked domains in Yahoo Japan and found that the pages were indexed when I did a full web search ( ウェブ全体 ), but they are NOT indexed when I do a search limited to Japanese pages ( 日本語のページのみ ).

Another thing about Yahoo Japan is that some of my parked IDN listings show up in Japanese, while others only show the ASCII Punycode URLs.
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Last edited by alex; 18th July 2006 at 04:32 AM..
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Old 18th July 2006, 04:39 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Well it's not actually just a NameDrive Issue
It's A Google & adsense/adwords issue

Japanese advertisers usually have ads show up in Japan.

The crawlers being US or nonJapan based is the problem.

The way I realized this was because when I searched for my domain with the extension
This came up

このページを和訳

which means translate into Japanese.
& realized that all the parked pages say that because the spiders are crawling only the English based ads..

Could you image the increase in traffic overall or revenue if we clear this up?
If this can be addressed & corrected IDN traffic should be comparable to ASCII traffic even before IE7 comes out.

For some reason you don't necessarily need the IE7 if the domain is clicked from a search engine.
One of my IDNs that I put up a small site has all traffic from Yahoo (It's on the first page) it's almost last on the page but that's 15 to 20 uniques a day. Surprisingly most are using IE6...
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Old 18th July 2006, 05:08 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
Could you image the increase in traffic overall or revenue if we clear this up? If this can be addressed & corrected IDN traffic should be comparable to ASCII traffic even before IE7 comes out.
Yes, this is definitely something that needs to be solved as soon as possible.

If NameDrive is having trouble working this out with the ad supplier and cannot force Japanese ads on all regions/IPs, maybe a there is a workaround so that visitors from other regions would see a cache of the Japan region Preview pages that we use to test and preview keyword results.

Or as a temporary measure, maybe there is some other way to prevent the display of non-Japanese ads, such as adding a text field for each domain which we could use to paste in a few paragraphs of Japanese text related to the keywords. That text could be displayed instead of the non-Japanese ads, so that crawlers would properly index the links as Japanese pages. I know this a poor solution even if only temporary, but it would help with indexing.

I really do hope NameDrive can make progess convincing the advertisers on this issue. The current situation means lost revenue for them as well.
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Old 18th July 2006, 05:42 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

SE spiders have specific "signatures" in terms of IP address ranges and HTTP headers, so it should be possible to serve them with specific content. That content should be the same as what visitors from the preferred country would see, so that there is no chance of being penalized for "cloaking".

Another option, perhaps, would be for Sedo, ND etc. to secure additional IPs in the main countries of interest (Japan, China etc.) and to use one of those IPs for domains explicitly designated as being Japanese, Chinese etc. since the ways SEs determine the language/milieu of a site include...

- HTTP language header
- domain extension
- IP address location
- (to a very limited extent) actual on-page language
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Old 18th July 2006, 07:13 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

There isn't enough evidence to attribute search engine to low traffic for Japanese names, although we have proven that search engine traffic does exist for Chinese names from our experience with SC when it was banned by Baidu for a period, traffic fell like anything (not even considering traffic from Google.cn and Yahoo.cn). http://www.idnforums.com/forums/3233...ighlight=baidu

Last edited by touchring; 18th July 2006 at 07:32 AM..
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Old 18th July 2006, 09:05 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Hi everyone,

This certainly is an interesting theory and it seems to bear a good deal of weight. Especially as many of you own such good keyword IDNs, it is clear that the search engines will play an important role in traffic generation.
This is something which seems pretty easy to solve by simply forcing any Japanese page to show in Japanese at all times. I think it does make a lot of sense that if somebody types in 'loans' in Japanese characters, they would rather see a page entirely in Japanese than a page with geo-targeted ads in, say, French.
The problem that I can see on first thinking about the problem is how to know which language to fix the domains in. Say we have loans.jp, in our system, it would be down as xn--...., which, to our system, would look exactly the same as the Russian version of loans.ru, i.e. xn--.... . As far as I understand, it would be difficult for our system to determine which language should be forced for which domain. As far as I see it, it would require an extra setting to stipulate "all pages should be shown in X language". Am I right on this or am I overlooking something.
You guys are the pros, so I'm happy to listen to any ideas you have on fixing this.

Ed
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Old 18th July 2006, 09:12 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

1. The only way to do this correctly would be to allow people to set it themselves. I hope you guys implement this as an option, but not a requirement.

2. The complicated and unsatisfactory way to attempt to do this in an automated way is: convert punycode xn-- to Unicode. Run through a program which recognizes the 'character script range' in Unicode and makes an educated guess. However, since Unicode defines scripts, and not languages, this is not perfect and can't show us what language is being used, only the script. There is no way to sense which language is being used for scripts that are shared by multiple languages, Chinese or Japanese, Russian or Bulgarian, by script alone. Only in a few cases is one script used for one language: ie. Lao Script for Lao. Even using complex dictionary searching tools some words are exactly same in Chinese and Japanese, etc. So, the best an automated system can do is make a guess. Therefore, it is technically impossible to determine language by domain name alone. There is nothing in the punycode that defines a particular language.

Last edited by blastfromthepast; 18th July 2006 at 09:22 AM..
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Old 18th July 2006, 09:19 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
1. The only way to do this would be to allow people to set it themselves.

2. One complicated and unsatisfactory way to do this is: convert punycode xn-- to Unicode. Run through a program which recognizes the 'character script range' in Unicode and make an educated guess. Unicode defines scripts, and not languages. However, this is not perfect and can't show us what language is being used, only the script. There is no way to sense which language is being used, Chinese or Japanese, Russian or Bulgarian, by script alone. Only in a few cases is one script used for one language: ie. Lao Script for Lao. Even using complex dictionary searching tools some words are exactly same in Chinese and Japanese, etc. So, the best an automated system can do is make a guess. Therefore, it is technically impossible to determine language by domain name alone.

So, please let us be able to force a language.
These are hugely valid points with far reaching implications. This is the reason that it is wholly inappropriate to even consider giving Nations control over dot com Aliases. IDN is all about scripts, nothing to do with nationalities, and is only vaguely to do with languages.
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Old 18th July 2006, 09:23 AM
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Re: The reason why Japanese Traffic is low - theory

Quote:
Originally Posted by NameDriver
far as I see it, it would require an extra setting to stipulate "all pages should be shown in X language". Am I right on this or am I overlooking something.
You are right on this.
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