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日本語ドメイン Discussion for Japan IDN Domain names. Japanese IDNs are available in .com .net & .jp

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Old 21st July 2006, 02:53 AM
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Japanese IDN performance question

I have a TM-free Japanese domain that is receiving about 50 uniques and $35+ rev monthly. Is this stats typical for good Japanese IDNs?

Thanks
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Old 21st July 2006, 02:58 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

It's not exactly typical for "now" I think after they straighten out indexing on the Parking Programs there should be many domains like this.

There's plenty of domains according to OVT bids that generally get over $1 bids.

1. Did you optimize it?
2. Is the domain indexed in the search engines?
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Old 21st July 2006, 03:00 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Assuming you have a 30% CTR, that's 15 clicks at over $2.00 each.

That's an outperformer I would say and better than any of my generic Japanese names.
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Old 21st July 2006, 03:02 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Am I the only one here not getting that much $ and traffic to my idns?
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Old 21st July 2006, 03:09 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

The CTR is amazingly 60%. The domain is creditcard dot com, which has 81 ovt score (domain term). I presume traffic is purely type-ins.
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Old 21st July 2006, 03:23 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

If your CTR is 60% then you receive 30 clicks at a little over $1 a click. The max ovt bid is 400 Yen.

On the other hand, I got a click for a pet term for $2 today and the max ovt bid is 81 Yen!

If ND uses the Google Japan feed and not Yahoo, that could explain the discrepancy.
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Old 21st July 2006, 03:39 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

OK I can explain to you why you get so many clicks...

1st

Good domains in Japanese didn't really exist before. People used to use any domain.

So some people ACTUALLY named their site with IDN.com even though their URL wasn't anything remotely close to this domain name.

There is a site claiming to be CC.com in Japanese even though the domain doesn't reflect it.

It's the same with my Haken dot com (career term) there is some company naming themselves haken dot com but their URL is not even remotely close.

For some reason the domain optimization reset but I think it will make $5 on a good day itself. It gets about 60% to 75% CTR when optimized...
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Old 21st July 2006, 05:13 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

The same for me with "nakata.net" "nyugan.com", "fuzoku.tv", "kusuriya.com", "sefure.com", and "rabuho.com" - to name just a few generic terms I discovered have websites using the Japanese equivalents as their brand. Only 2 of them are indexed right now, but once IE7 is released and people adapt to typing in domain names - watch out - the traffic train is headed my way.

As to your original question - I think your site is a clear outlyer, most of us would love to have a single site earning $35 bucks a month.
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Old 21st July 2006, 06:32 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

But Rhys I assume yours at least ARE the domains in romaji.

The one for Haken & CC are NOT EVEN CLOSE to the domain in romaji

More like

0007fc.com/job/

Really...
Users have no choice but to search or try to type it in.
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Old 21st July 2006, 07:29 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
But Rhys I assume yours at least ARE the domains in romaji.

The one for Haken & CC are NOT EVEN CLOSE to the domain in romaji

More like

0007fc.com/job/

Really...
Users have no choice but to search or try to type it in.

It's a bonus, but if they can prove using archive.org that they have started branding the site that way BEFORE you registered the name, i wonder if they would have the right of claim since the name is getting traffic as a result of their branding efforts? There have been precedent WIPO cases where generics are recognized as trademarks.

Knowing that common law can be extremely unpredictable - as compared to super rigid European laws, i think this area is a cause of concern.

Last edited by touchring; 21st July 2006 at 07:54 AM..
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:07 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
It's a bonus, but if they can prove using archive.org that they have started branding the site that way BEFORE you registered the name, i wonder if they would have the right of claim since the name is getting traffic as a result of their branding efforts? There have been precedent WIPO cases where generics are recognized as trademarks.

Knowing that common law can be extremely unpredictable - as compared to super rigid European laws, i think this area is a cause of concern.
It is a good question. I note that in some cases for my domains, more than one site is branding using that domain name. I think here it is hard to claim TM.

In the US, I think the law is clear that an extension cannot be used within a TM claim. So Fuuzoku.tv may try to claim ownership over my 風俗.tv with the argument that "Fuuzoku" is their established trademark (uh...yeah..goodluck) but according to u.s. law anyway they could not claim "fuuzoku.tv" as a trademark because it contains the extension. Of course, I'm not sure where the jurisdiction for a case would fall. Any lawyers in the house?
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:12 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
It is a good question. I note that in some cases for my domains, more than one site is branding using that domain name. I think here it is hard to claim TM.

In the US, I think the law is clear that an extension cannot be used within a TM claim. So Fuuzoku.tv may try to claim ownership over my 風俗.tv with the argument that "Fuuzoku" is their established trademark (uh...yeah..goodluck) but according to u.s. law anyway they could not claim "fuuzoku.tv" as a trademark because it contains the extension. Of course, I'm not sure where the jurisdiction for a case would fall. Any lawyers in the house?
You can TM your name and extension (.com etc). A major company goes by this...... "Hotels.com" .

A few have offered the service to me but I have trademarked my websites as Two Words so I can go after who I feel is violating my TM.
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:15 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

That's like saying you own the URL

http : www. 88777hippo.com / userflex/08

& you call it Anime.com

& they give you Anime.com

It doesn't even coincide with the Romaji at all. They had a chance to get IDNs...
What about whoever owns the romaji?

What if I register ha-ken.com still the same in Japanese...

This is one of the reasons why the IDN has to be seperate from Romaji. In ever instance of a term in Romaji I can amost guarantee more than 50% of the time there's another way to write the IDN in Romaji.

If they owned the actually correct romaji, there's a minute slim chance. Their url has no resemblance to haken dot com or CC. These are pure Japanese premium generics.

I mean ccdot.com or hakendot.com would be better than what they have...
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:19 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Olney
That's like saying you own the URL

http : www. 88777hippo.com / userflex/08

& you call it Anime.com

& they give you Anime.com

It doesn't even coincide with the Romaji at all. They had a chance to get IDNs...
What about whoever owns the romaji?

What if I register ha-ken.com still the same in Japanese...

This is one of the reasons why the IDN has to be seperate from Romaji. In ever instance of a term in Romaji I can amost guarantee more than 50% of the time there's another way to write the IDN in Romaji.

If they owned the actually correct romaji, there's a minute slim chance. Their url has no resemblance to haken dot com or CC. These are pure Japanese premium generics.

I mean ccdot.com or hakendot.com would be better than what they have...
Olney

I'm not making this up. It's possible. You can scan the USPTO database ;-). Plenty of names with extensions. I've consulted with a lawyer many times to trademark many of my established website businesses. He does it regularly for some of his other clients.

Is one of the reasons why I totally avoided spanish and french.
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Last edited by IDNCowboy; 21st July 2006 at 08:24 AM..
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:27 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
It is a good question. I note that in some cases for my domains, more than one site is branding using that domain name. I think here it is hard to claim TM.

In the US, I think the law is clear that an extension cannot be used within a TM claim. So Fuuzoku.tv may try to claim ownership over my 風俗.tv with the argument that "Fuuzoku" is their established trademark (uh...yeah..goodluck) but according to u.s. law anyway they could not claim "fuuzoku.tv" as a trademark because it contains the extension. Of course, I'm not sure where the jurisdiction for a case would fall. Any lawyers in the house?


But anyway, if Fuuzoku.tv engages a lawyer to fight the case, they are likely to win (money wins cases). So are you also going to engage a lawyer? Either way, the domainer loses. The moment someone tries to contest a domain, the domainer loses.
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:29 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
You can TM your name and extension (.com etc). A major company goes by this...... "Hotels.com" .

A few have offered the service to me but I have trademarked my websites as Two Words so I can go after who I feel is violating my TM.
I am referring to US trademark law:

http://www.uspto.gov/web/offices/tac...s/guide299.htm

"If a mark is composed of a generic term(s) for applicant’s goods or services and a TLD, the examining attorney must refuse registration on the ground that the mark is generic and the TLD has no trademark significance. See TMEP §1209.01(b)(12) regarding marks comprised in part of "1-800" or other telephone numbers. Marks comprised of generic terms combined with TLDs are not eligible for registration on the Supplemental Register, or on the Principal Register under Trademark Act §2(f), 15 U.S.C. §1052(f). This applies to trademarks, service marks, collective marks and certification marks.


Example: TURKEY.COM for frozen turkeys is unregistrable on either the
Principal or Supplemental Register.
Example: BANK.COM for banking services is unregistrable on either the
Principal or Supplemental Register"
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:29 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Olney gives very good points.
A few extra thoughts I have:

1. The ascii creditcard dot com owner won't automatically claim ownership to my Jap cc com.

2. My domain (cc.com) was registered way before the other domains/sites that are using my domain name as titles. I can accuse them for abusing my internet property.

3. I believe rhys' domains are safe too since they are generic, unless other people have filed TMs on these term before rhys regged these domains, which is unlikely.
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:34 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
But anyway, if Fuuzoku.tv engages a lawyer to fight the case, they are likely to win (money wins cases). So are you also going to engage a lawyer? Either way, the domainer loses. The moment someone tries to contest a domain, the domainer loses.
I guess in my case it is good that I'm the only one of 4 college roommates not to become a lawyer.

But seriously, one would have to make a bet that the Japanese would rather find accomodation if necessary than call a lawyer. With only a couple of thousand of them in the country, they are scarce and expensive.
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:35 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Olney

I'm not making this up. It's possible. You can scan the USPTO database ;-). Plenty of names with extensions. I've consulted with a lawyer many times to trademark many of my established website businesses. He does it regularly for some of his other clients.

Is one of the reasons why I totally avoided spanish and french.

Yes, previously, i mentioned once about pre-emptive trademark registration. Is there any online trademark service in the US? Those of sort that costs maybe $300 to register a trademark?

So, say if Rhys trademarks his "風俗.tv" , so if Fuuzoku.tv wants to play, he got a "closer" trademark and a triumph card to defend his domain in court. :p

Guys, let's talk about this, if we are going to pre-empt, we have to do it quick!
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Old 21st July 2006, 08:37 AM
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Re: Japanese IDN performance question

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhys
I guess in my case it is good that I'm the only one of 4 college roommates not to become a lawyer.

But seriously, one would have to make a bet that the Japanese would rather find accomodation if necessary than call a lawyer. With only a couple of thousand of them in the country, they are scarce and expensive.

That's very good news indeed!
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