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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 9th August 2006, 12:21 AM
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IDN Site building

I thought I'd start a thread to see what program/s the resident coders here recommend for building IDN sites.

I also welcome feedback or links to any site building resouces that are a 'must' for a newbie.

As Olney (and others) have mentioned many times, we need to encourage the IDN community to move from the IDN speculation phase to IDN site explosion via development.

There is a lot of info on our forum, but it seems to be scattered and quite hard to find (at least for me!) I'm hoping a dedicated thread for this may get a sticky and will become easy for all to access.

I hope the experienced on our forum will give a little encouragement for the coding noob's here, and support our collective interests

I am making my first attempt to build a site, and have downloaded Textpad. Looks reasonable enough, though I have already run into a hitch in getting pasted Japanese text to display correctly I'm sure I'll work it out, but any tips are most appreciated!
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Old 12th August 2006, 04:18 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

http://www.unipad.org

"What is SC UniPad?

SC UniPad is a Unicode™ plain text editor for the Windows NT®, Windows 9x®, Windows ME®, Windows XP® and Windows 200X® operating systems.

+++ Displays about 54500 Unicode characters instantly without installing extra fonts + On-screen soft keyboard + Over 60 built-in keyboard layouts + Character map for easy selection of any Unicode character + Import / export of over 60 codepages, encodings + Unicode formats UTF-8, UTF-16, UTF-32, UTF-7, Compression Scheme, \u + supports Unicode standard 4.1.0 + and more... +++

Download your free version now.
"

I don't know how many forum members know about this, but I thought I'd post it.

I am an English speaking mono-linguist (?), so it's not much good to me (though if I have enough beer, I speak blah-blah fluently).

Hope this can help someone!
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Old 12th August 2006, 04:21 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

I use SuperEdi, downloadable from here:

http://www.wolosoft.com/en/superedi/

Probably similar feature set, though if anyone tries out both, great to find which is better.
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Old 12th August 2006, 04:40 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

When uploading the UTF pages, we have a choice of ASCII or Binary and sometimes the ASCII upload messes up the HTML or PHP page. Binary upload does no good either.

I have seen other IDN sites with this problem. It happens sometimes, not always. The first load is OK, but the next time the site is loaded in a browser, it is not the same as it should be.

Does anyone know how to consistently defeat this problem?
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Old 12th August 2006, 04:47 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
I use SuperEdi, downloadable from here:

http://www.wolosoft.com/en/superedi/

Probably similar feature set, though if anyone tries out both, great to find which is better.
Haven't found which is better yet, but only similar problem I have with SuperEdi as with Textpad.

Different options are available for Japanese encoding, but I cannot paste Japanese straight into document. it is returned as 'llllll'

Any ideas why domainguru?
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Old 12th August 2006, 04:51 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

I would recommend Context, I use it for everything...GUI's are for p*ssy's :=) .

http://www.context.cx/

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsinternet
When uploading the UTF pages, we have a choice of ASCII or Binary and sometimes the ASCII upload messes up the HTML or PHP page. Binary upload does no good either.

I have seen other IDN sites with this problem. It happens sometimes, not always. The first load is OK, but the next time the site is loaded in a browser, it is not the same as it should be.

Does anyone know how to consistently defeat this problem?
I never have problems with this because all utf-8 is directly extracted from a database or it is converted to utf-8 from another format.

If you want any easily changeable website it would be wise to put all your content in a db.

Last edited by bramiozo; 12th August 2006 at 04:55 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12th August 2006, 05:06 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamo
Haven't found which is better yet, but only similar problem I have with SuperEdi as with Textpad.

Different options are available for Japanese encoding, but I cannot paste Japanese straight into document. it is returned as 'llllll'

Any ideas why domainguru?
It's mainly a matter of matching encodings. When you paste text into a program, the program doesn't "know" what encoding it is. So the program should be set to be the same encoding as the text you are pasting in. Then, theoretically, and if you have the correct fonts installed for the encoding, everything should be ok.

There may also be issues caused by "copying/pasting" messing around with the characters i.e. the clipboard might attempt to "interpret" the characters (wrongly) and hence mess around when it shouldn't be doing.

Like bramiozo suggests, the best way to work is in a standard format i.e. UTF-8. That way, you can store and display text in all languages stored in the Unicode standard.

This is a great intro to Unicode / text encoding (thanks Jase)

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/Unicode.html
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Old 12th August 2006, 05:07 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
It's mainly a matter of matching encodings. When you paste text into a program, the program doesn't "know" what encoding it is. So the program should be set to be the same encoding as the text you are pasting in. Then, theoretically, and if you have the correct fonts installed for the encoding, everything should be ok.

There may also be issues caused by "copying/pasting" messing around with the characters i.e. the clipboard might attempt to "interpret" the characters (wrongly) and hence mess around when it shouldn't be doing.

Like bramiozo suggests, the best way to work is in a standard format i.e. UTF-8. That way, you can store and display text in all languages stored in the Unicode standard.
Thanks domaniguru...I knew I was doing something wrong, and it wasn't as straight forward as I imagined it would be.
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Old 12th August 2006, 05:08 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamo
Again, this editor doesn't seem to support Japanese?

(I am a complete noob - forgive my ignorance if I am missing something!)
The key is that UTF supports *every* language. Read that article first

As an example, take a look at the source code for IDNForums.com:

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />

The encoding is utf-8. This is what allows people to display characters from any number of languages on the *same page*.

Last edited by domainguru; 12th August 2006 at 05:12 PM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 12th August 2006, 05:40 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Quote:
Originally Posted by domainguru
The key is that UTF supports *every* language. Read that article first

As an example, take a look at the source code for IDNForums.com:

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8" />

The encoding is utf-8. This is what allows people to display characters from any number of languages on the *same page*.
Cheers!

That was a great article. I have learnt more in 15 minutes of reading than I normally do in a whole week!

It has left me with a new question though...

If I want to add Japanese text to the body of my page (and am not fluent so I must source it from a translator), do I need to convert it to utf-8 first, and then paste it in?

I'm just a bit confused about this!

Last edited by seamo; 12th August 2006 at 05:51 PM..
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Old 12th August 2006, 05:51 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamo
Cheers!

That was a great article. I have learnt more in 15 minutes of reading than I normally do in a whole week!

It has left me with a new question though...

If I want to add Japanese text to the body of my page, and I happen to source it from a translator, do I need to convert it to utf-8 first, and then paste it in?
If the translator produces a document using a Japanese encoding, and you want to paste into a page in UTF-8, the answer must be yes.

I'm sure one of the Japanese experts on this forum will be able to tell you a convenient way to do the conversion.
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Old 12th August 2006, 06:21 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Maybe I was unclear?

I can create the UTF & save the file just fine. Readability is not a problem. It is the FTP upload that messes it up half the time. Anyone have any suggestions?
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Old 12th August 2006, 07:10 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsinternet
Maybe I was unclear?

I can create the UTF & save the file just fine. Readability is not a problem. It is the FTP upload that messes it up half the time. Anyone have any suggestions?
It sounds like it has something to do with the file interface, a pure file upload won't change a thing, try and use fireftp for firefox, this shouldn't give any problems.
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Old 12th August 2006, 07:20 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsinternet
Maybe I was unclear?

I can create the UTF & save the file just fine. Readability is not a problem. It is the FTP upload that messes it up half the time. Anyone have any suggestions?
You should be able to upload as either ASCII or binary. Something else must be causing the issue. How exactly is it "messed up"?
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Old 12th August 2006, 09:47 PM
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Re: IDN Site building

EmEditor also supports UTF-8.

FileZilla is an FTP/SFTP client that works for me.

You might try setting your FTP client to Passive Mode if you're having problems uploading.
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Old 18th August 2006, 10:51 AM
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Re: IDN Site building

Well, a big thanks to those who have contributed to this thread

Cheers especially to domainguru - I am now using SuperEdi, and so far it has been excellent. You also set me on the right path and I changed my font to MS Mincho. Now Japanese displays correctly in my HTML, and I am well on my way to coding my first site.

In case anyone finds this thread who has been looking for site building info, a better thread has been started by RD.

It's the 'Idiots Guide to Development'

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/6066...velopment.html

There has been some excellent contributions by our forum members, and I would recommend it for getting all newbies started.

Cheers

Last edited by seamo; 18th August 2006 at 01:10 PM..
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