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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 27th August 2006, 04:07 AM
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劵 and 券

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/6243...ions%29-a.html

The above thread contain a mistake by someone saying that 劵 and 券 are both Chinese and that 劵 is the trad and 券 is the simp. This is wrong. In fact, both the trad and simp form of this char is same in Chinese -- 券. The another char, 劵, is a Japanese Kanji char, not in Chinese dictionary and can't be processed by a Chinese processing system.

I feel guilty if I saw someone made mistake and do not take time to correct it. I have seen people gave wrong Chinese translation or interpretaion in the past and as a consequence a few members here made big waste from these Chinese translations and explationations. Please don't take this personally. As I said, everyone makes mistake.

I have to open a new thread because the orginal thread was closed before I find the mistake.
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Old 27th August 2006, 05:56 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

For the benefit of everyone, i got this magnified. :p

versus

If you noticed, the chinese version is written this way "\ /", whereas the Japanese version is written this way "/ \".

Anyone who is familiar with how the top is written will notice the error.

Last edited by touchring; 27th August 2006 at 06:02 AM..
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Old 27th August 2006, 06:01 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

You are really silly markits.

劵 is a Traditional Chinese, it is pronounced "juan". It looks very much like 券 "quan", so somebody used it to spoof the word "stocks". But it doesn't matter which "juan" you use, Simplified "juan" 卷 or Traditional "juan" 劵, they are all wrong. The correct one is "quan" 券.

There is nothing to do with Japanese, these are all Chinese characters.

When touchring spotted something funny, he tried to point it out but he pronounced the word "券"="quan" wrong, he pronounced it "juan"="卷". That's why ca191s was so quick to tell him the difference between "quan" and "juan".

When I read touchring's post "this juan looks strange, am i seeing wrongly?", I noticed he said "juan" instead of "quan", just as more than 20% of Singaporeans would make such mistake. This is not a secret, I am a Cantonese myself, I know what language mistakes Cantonese would tend to make.

Although the domain was dicovered by you that it was spoofed with a Traditional "juan" instead of the real "quan", it did not negate anything I said. The truth is still the same: "STOCKS" IS "ZHENG QUAN", NOT "zheng juan".

My eyes can be deceived, but the truth cannot.

Let me help you with one more example:

If a small boy showed me an English word "cake" with a Cyrrilic "a" in it, and asked me to explain the word to him. I explained it as English word "cake", but he told me I was wrong because that was not an English word .

It's true, I did not spot the Cyrrilic "a" in it, but I was still right about the English word CAKE.

Now, how come ca191s registered such a domain that looks so similar to the real one? You ask him.
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Last edited by Giant; 27th August 2006 at 06:11 AM..
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Old 27th August 2006, 06:04 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

I maybe pronoucing the cantonese way, but nonetheless, i was noticing the TOP, which doesn't look like any chinese character.

Markits: Welcome to the "silly club".

It's alright to be silly, as long as you are speaking the truth, and not all out to get at people - retribution awaits these when they meet their maker. The majority of people here might not be aware, but heaven has eyes and is LOOKING, no point risking over a few domain bucks.

Last edited by touchring; 27th August 2006 at 06:20 AM..
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Old 27th August 2006, 06:41 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
I maybe pronoucing the cantonese way...
No, you are wrong again. you are pronouncing the wrong way, not the Cantonese way.



Mandarin pronunciation : QUAN (or Pinyin)

Cantonese pronunciation: HYN
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Old 27th August 2006, 06:46 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

As I said, everyone makes mistake.
But not everyone has the courage to admit it.

Directly calling other people silly is ok only when himself has the truth, even though it is not the best way to discuss thing.

Directly calling other people silly is really silly when himself has no clue on what he is talking about.
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Old 27th August 2006, 06:57 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Quote:
Originally Posted by markits
As I said, everyone makes mistake.
But not everyone has the courage to admit it.

Directly calling other people silly is ok only when himself has the truth, even though it is not the best way to discuss thing.

Directly calling other people silly is really silly when himself has no clue on what he is talking about.

Whatever, but i hate it when "forum bullies" start directing at me, or even other people. Come, i'll take you on. (*pointing at signature*) :p

Or should i be more understanding? I know there is something known as the "mid-life crisis"....hmmm........

Notice, i didn't try to spoil Ca161's sale, i just asked a question to clarify things out as i know i maybe wrong. Had it been someone else, he will be "caught red handed and trashed". Ah...ha!! One competitor out, more monies for my names...

And as you said, people do make mistake, especially most of us are busy people, we got other business to do. If that name was a drop, it is very likely Ca191s just caught it as it is, without typing in to check and compare. Just mere speculation, best is if Ca191s explains himself.

Last edited by touchring; 27th August 2006 at 07:10 AM..
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Old 27th August 2006, 07:05 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Quote:
Originally Posted by markits
As I said, everyone makes mistake.
But not everyone has the courage to admit it.

Directly calling other people silly is ok only when himself has the truth, even though it is not the best way to discuss thing.

Directly calling other people silly is really silly when himself has no clue on what he is talking about.
Why you are silly?

"The another char, 劵, is a Japanese Kanji char, not in Chinese dictionary and can't be processed by a Chinese processing system."

You are silly because you don't even know your own Chinese characters. You can't find 劵 in your Simplified Input System, but if you switch it to Traditional Chinese Pinyin Input System using "juan", 劵 is right there.

If you couldn't find this character in your dictionary, ask your friend in Taiwan to send you one. 劵 has been a Traditional Chinese character for at least a few hundred years.

After you confirm this is a Chinese character from your ancestors, then tell me why I am wrong.
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Old 27th August 2006, 07:11 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

The fact that his can be entered in Chinese is easily proven: Google 795 for "证劵交易", including a page from www.etax.nat.gov.tw, col.njtu.edu.cn, www.gzaudit.gov.cn, etc.
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Old 27th August 2006, 07:19 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
The fact that his can be entered in Chinese is easily proven: Google 795 for "证劵交易", including a page from www.etax.nat.gov.tw, col.njtu.edu.cn, www.gzaudit.gov.cn, etc.

I think we should end all this "whose chinese is better" fight, and let Ca191s explain why he made that mistake. :p
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Old 27th August 2006, 07:44 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
I think we should end all this "whose chinese is better" fight, and let Ca191s explain why he made that mistake. :p
I 〒#ǀ|\|к #℮ |\/||_|5〒 #4\/℮ 6☺〒〒℮|\| ☺|\|℮ ☺|= 〒#☺5℮ |\|℮\/\/ IDN к℮j8☺4rδ5 〒#4〒 6☺〒 #ǀ|\/| 4しし く☺|\/||=|_|5℮δ∙
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Old 27th August 2006, 08:01 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Putting this into emotional won't do any help.

Switching to traditional pinyin input method has no 劵 coming out by typing "JUAN". I use the most popular Chinese processing system -- NJStarWP.

Tell me which system you are using.

Add this new post:
I have read through everyone's post here, and found that it gets too emotional and personal that is not my intention. I'd better call a stop to this thread. My apology to everyone particularly to giant as I really shouldn't have opened this thread since it easily made people think I was against "giant" in fact it is not. I do have respect to both giant and touchring. Sorry to giant and touch if I have messed things up.

Also, non-native Chinese really shouldn't make any comments here.

Last edited by markits; 27th August 2006 at 09:20 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 27th August 2006, 09:42 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

You didn't do anything wrong. I thought we were discussing about the name itself, but it always ends up with people pointing at people.

I dunno why it always happen that way when we are discussing about Chinese names - this doesn't happen for Japanese or Russian names - there are just as many russian and american russian speakers here.

Doesn't make a good impression on others, no wonder Blast said: I 〒#ǀ|\|к #℮ |\/||_|5〒 #4\/℮ 6☺〒〒℮|\| ☺|\|℮ ☺|= 〒#☺5℮ |\|℮\/\/ IDN к℮j8☺4rδ5 〒#4〒 6☺〒 #ǀ|\/| 4しし く☺|\/||=|_|5℮δ∙

There's a Chinese idiom - 小题大作 - small matter, big hooha.

Last edited by touchring; 27th August 2006 at 09:56 AM..
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Old 27th August 2006, 10:17 AM
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Re: 劵 and 券

interesting debate guys, but I agree it doesnt have to degenerate into personal slurs.
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Old 27th August 2006, 04:18 PM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Quote:
Originally Posted by markits
Putting this into emotional won't do any help.

Switching to traditional pinyin input method has no 劵 coming out by typing "JUAN". I use the most popular Chinese processing system -- NJStarWP.

Tell me which system you are using.
Microsoft Pinyin Input Method, but switch to Traditional input.

markits, I am very calm because I have been using Traditional Chinese all my life and I know 劵 is a Traditional Chinese. It's you talking emotionally and starting this thread to argue it's Japanese.

My friend from England just visited me last week, we hadn't seen each other for 20 years. When I ordered some good foods to welcome him, he said let him take care of the bill. I said to him, "don't be silly".

"silly" is a friendly word.
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Last edited by Giant; 27th August 2006 at 04:31 PM..
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Old 27th August 2006, 05:15 PM
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Re: 劵 and 券

The whole issue is not about this Japanese or Chinese if you can recall. It is not right either to think that I opened this thread for the purpose to argue with you, I did say that don't take it personally. When I saw a mistake, I simply thought I need to correct it. I didn't think in a way that this is you giant's mistake so I need to correct it.

In the original thread you said: ["证劵" pronounced "zheng quan". Close to 100% of Mandarin speakers would write and pronounce this word correctly.] This is clearly not correct.

After I pointed out the difference between 劵 and 券, you then said: [I believe ca191s meant "zheng quan" as I did, he just picked up the drop without knowing that the domain was mixed with a Traditional character in it. 劵 is a Traditional character, if you type "zheng quan jiao yi" you will get 证券交易 (the right form), 劵 does not belong to the Simplified Set of characters.]. This is again not correct as you were saying 劵 is the traditional char of 券. In fact both simp and trad forms of this char is the same.

As whether 劵 is a Chinese or Japanese, it certainly can be said that you are right. But this char is not even in the most popular Chinese processing system. I actually checked few online Chinese dictionaries too before I post the thread, and none of them contains this char in the trad char set. As I understand that all Japanese Kanji char are essentially chinese char too (Hanzi) but a few of them are unique in the two langusages. I apology if you think this has offended you.

As to the silly thingy, thanks for comparing me to one of your good friends.

Calm is good so that we can discuss things in a rational way.
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Old 27th August 2006, 05:48 PM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Quote:
Originally Posted by markits
In the original thread you said: ["证劵" pronounced "zheng quan". Close to 100% of Mandarin speakers would write and pronounce this word correctly.] This is clearly not correct.
I copied the word directly from ca191s without knowing it's a spoof, but I said it's pronounced "zheng quan" you should know I was quoting the realy "stocks". As I said earlier, my eyes can be deceived but anything I said about "zheng quan" is still true.

I can mistaken "cake" that the little child spoofed it with a Cyrrilic "a" in it, but my knowledge about the real CAKE remains the same -- RIGHT.


Quote:
Originally Posted by markits
... This is again not correct as you were saying 劵 is the traditional char of 券. In fact both simp and trad forms of this char is the same.
It's funny, where did I say "劵 is the traditional char of 券"?

I said: "劵 is a Traditional character, ". Did you notice the comma? Where is "of 券"?

I also said: 劵 pronounced "juan", how can it be the Traditional form of "quan"? No one with a logical mind would say that!

A very good proof is handy here: Traditional version "stocks" 證券.com owned by me. Did I write it wrong as you claim? Obviously NOT.

If you failed to find a mistake by me this time, be patient, I will still be talking, you still have a chance
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Last edited by Giant; 27th August 2006 at 06:00 PM..
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Old 27th August 2006, 05:54 PM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Add,
If I did not open this thread, I am sure some members here will register wrong domains such as x劵.xxx etc and waste money. I have seen similar things happened before and personally will feel guilty if I do not take time to stop it. This is all my initial purpose. I now regret for having done so and think I should approach this in a better way.

Last edited by markits; 27th August 2006 at 06:07 PM..
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Old 27th August 2006, 06:11 PM
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Re: 劵 and 券

Quote:
Originally Posted by markits
Add,
If I did not open this thread, I am sure some members here will register wrong domains such as x劵.xxx etc and waste money. I have seen similar things happened before and personally will feel guilty if I do not take time to stop it. This is all my initial purpose. I now regret for having done so and think I should approach this in a better way.
You are right on this. This type of spoofing is very dangerous to all Chinese, it's extremely hard to spot such "trick".
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