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Old 1st September 2006, 09:56 AM
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IE 7 Cripples IDN..

.. so says Mozilla *sigh*

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/gerv/...pples_idn.html
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:05 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Why would this be an issue in the first place? Security is more important than having to stare at punycode.

This is a non-issue.

We should be concerned about whether Verisign plugin or CNNIC plugin works after upgrading to IE7.
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:09 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

If you peel away the obvious Mozilla propaganda, it really boils down to this:

If you navigate to an IDN site and don't have that language installed you get Punycode in the address bar and a yellow warning "error".

the point being made is, this is fine to surf in your own language, but what about an international company who has links to other country specific sites, users that navigate there will be "nagged".

Mozilla propoganda or real concern?
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:10 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
If you peel away the obvious Mozilla propaganda, it really boils down to this:

If you navigate to an IDN site and don't have that language installed you get Punycode in the address bar and a yellow warning "error".

the point being made is, this is fine to surf in your own language, but what about an international company who has links to other country specific sites, users that navigate there will be "nagged".

Mozilla propoganda or real concern?

Well, an international company won't use idn as it's corporate URL.
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:13 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
Mozilla have got a nerve. They were the ones that reset the default on Firefox to Punycode because they lost their bottle.

Frankly, the whole argument about phishing is peverse. Microsoft have done the whole of Asia a huge disservice by forcing them to use unfamiliar foreign characters, thereby subjecting them to a real risk of phishing. They have done this by keeping IE 6 on a ventillator for 3 years after it was clinically brain dead, thereby making Asians vulnerable to phishing, to protect a more Internet savvy US, from almost totally phoney risk, which ICANN have been addressing. If it was such a massive problem, why have not all the mixed script domains that present a theoretical risk not simply been cancelled?
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:13 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Well, an international company won't use idn as it's corporate URL.
eh?

so you think an International corporate won't have a site map off to their "local" companies and use the idn as the home page?
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:17 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
eh?

so you think an International corporate won't have a site map off to their "local" companies and use the idn as the home page?
I think someone has kidnapped the real Touchring and stolen his identity to put out anti-IDN propaganda!
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:19 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
eh?

so you think an International corporate won't have a site map off to their "local" companies and use the idn as the home page?

Let's say one of those international Japanese car makers like Toyota - they are going to use toyota.com as their corporate URL, and not the Japanese version.

Taking a Chinese example, Lenovo Computer (联想) is going to use Lenovo.com. Take a look at www.lenovo.com -> it leads to a page where you can choose dozens of countries. Germany is http://www.lenovo.com/de/de/

Last edited by touchring; 1st September 2006 at 10:27 AM..
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:25 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

If they've got any brains (which I'm sure they have) they'll find a way of using/marketing both...
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:26 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Let's say one of those international Japanese car makers like Toyota - they are going to use toyota.com as their corporate URL, and not the Japanese version.

Taking a Chinese example, Lenovo Computer is going to use Lenovo.com.
yes Toyoto.com as Global page.

with links off to idn.com (china)

toyoto.co.uk (uk)

idn.com (germany)
.
.
.


I aree with RD, touch: i think your belief is wobbling
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:28 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
Let's say one of those Japanese car makers like Toyota = they are going to use toyota.com as their corporate URL, and not the Japanese version.
Toyota already use a rangle of ccTLD such as Toyota.co.uk and Toyota.fr to target local markets in the most effective way possible, and this policy will continue. Yes Toyota.com will still be used for the US, but in Asia where Toyota is more commonly represented in local characters that is what will be used. The same logic will apply to every company of course many will use all the alternatives. If you go to the toyota.co.jp, it is clear that the Romanji version is highly accepted, so usage may continue. Seaching deeper though you will see that they also use this form:

トヨタ
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:31 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamo
If they've got any brains (which I'm sure they have) they'll find a way of using/marketing both...

I'm sure they will forward their idn to the correct site, but why would someone in say Australia visit Toyota Germany site?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
yes Toyoto.com as Global page.

with links off to idn.com (china)

toyoto.co.uk (uk)

idn.com (germany)
.
.
.


I aree with RD, touch: i think your belief is wobbling

Not wobbling, you have to put yourself in the shoes of these international companies.

They are going to want a single identity - one color, one name, one culture, one URL that the whole world can access.

Is an international company like toyota that operates in more than 50 countries, going to market and advertise 50 domains in 50 different languages? Maybe Yes, maybe No, that will be their company's policy.

Last edited by touchring; 1st September 2006 at 10:40 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:37 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
I'm sure they will forward their idn to the correct site, but why would someone in say Australia visit Toyota Germany site?




Not wobbling, you have to put yourself in the shoes of these international companies.

They are going to want a single identity - one color, one name, one culture, one URL that the whole world can access.
Yes, that is certainly the US approach, which is why their current account is f*cked!
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:39 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
... you have to put yourself in the shoes of these international companies.

They are going to want a single identity - one color, one name, one culture, etc.
I 100% disagree.

I've done a lot of commercial work in this area, that is NOT what international corporates aspire to.

example:

take a big corporate US company that also has stores in the UK.

If I read their news page, and it just waffles on about the $ and USA stories or white papers/studies - I get turned off.

Internationals know this, thats why most these days put "local" content on their sites; and the way to do this is to be able to branch off from the global site and into the "regional" site and read stuff that is related to you.
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:40 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
I'm sure they will forward their idn to the correct site, but why would someone in say Australia visit Toyota Germany site?
No you're right - and I'm not saying I would.

I'm just saying that hopefully the IT guys at Toyota have the nouse to make the most of IDN...and I'm sure they do.
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:43 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by seamo
No you're right - and I'm not saying I would.

I'm just saying that hopefully the IT guys at Toyota have the nouse to make the most of IDN...and I'm sure they do.
Well, actually they might if their first language was German and they wanted to find out details relating to specs on the latest models, there are also lots of Arabs and Chinese in Australia.
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:46 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Ikea already has lots of IDNs, イケア.com, 宜家.com, ايكيا.com, etc.
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:47 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Well, actually they might if their first language was German and they wanted to find out details relating to specs on the latest models, there are also lots of Arabs and Chinese in Australia.
Quite true!

Ahh...the beauty of IDN's, eh?

Last edited by seamo; 1st September 2006 at 11:39 AM..
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:53 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rubber Duck
Well, actually they might if their first language was German and they wanted to find out details relating to specs on the latest models, there are also lots of Arabs and Chinese in Australia.

Then, they will get the warning sign the Mozilla guy said.

But i won't be worried, it will be in the small minority, like Arabic or Chinese tourists or students in Australia.
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Old 1st September 2006, 10:53 AM
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Re: IE 7 Cripples IDN..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphamale
I 100% disagree.

I've done a lot of commercial work in this area, that is NOT what international corporates aspire to.

example:

take a big corporate US company that also has stores in the UK.

If I read their news page, and it just waffles on about the $ and USA stories or white papers/studies - I get turned off.

Internationals know this, thats why most these days put "local" content on their sites; and the way to do this is to be able to branch off from the global site and into the "regional" site and read stuff that is related to you.
check out http://www.gucci.com/

they could just have put up one global site and have a language toggle.
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