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Old 21st November 2006, 05:58 PM
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Please help a noob.

Hi

I have only recently learnt of IDN's and I am having great difficulty in understanding exactly how it works. I hope someone can clarify something for me?

If I were to register, for example, fruit.com in an IDN form, how many occurences of that IDN can I have.? For example can an IDN fruit.com exist in Chinese, another one in Arabic, another one in Czech, etc, etc. or does the Puny code apply to all these languages ? So if I were to type in fruit.com in Chinese it would take you to my site and a Russian who does likewise, in his language take you to the same site.

Also, since 99% of the Internet is in English, and IDN's are still in it's infancy, wouldn't it become a nuisance for the end user to keep changing language settings to browse between IDN and non-IDN sites. Or am I missing something there too?

Many Thanks
Purist
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Old 21st November 2006, 06:13 PM
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Re: Please help a noob.

The punycode merely represents unicode characters which fall outside the ascii-range of 37 characters. Xn--xxxx represents a series of unicode characters for which xxxx translates into the actual unicode locations of the characters, that's all you need to know.
So dependent on the mapping of the punycode characters each punycode represents a unique domain in unicode characters, each punycode is a unique domain.

You're probably confused with the idn-extensions all being mapped to the english gtld; xn--xxxxx.xn--xxx will in the future probably map onto xn--xxxxx.(com/net/org/info...) but xn--xxxxx.com in which xn--xxxxx transforms into "apple" in some language does not map onto xn--xxxxx2.com which also means "apple" but in some other language.
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Old 21st November 2006, 06:15 PM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purist
Hi

I have only recently learnt of IDN's and I am having great difficulty in understanding exactly how it works. I hope someone can clarify something for me?

If I were to register, for example, fruit.com in an IDN form, how many occurences of that IDN can I have.? For example can an IDN fruit.com exist in Chinese, another one in Arabic, another one in Czech, etc, etc. or does the Puny code apply to all these languages ? So if I were to type in fruit.com in Chinese it would take you to my site and a Russian who does likewise, in his language take you to the same site.

Also, since 99% of the Internet is in English, and IDN's are still in it's infancy, wouldn't it become a nuisance for the end user to keep changing language settings to browse between IDN and non-IDN sites. Or am I missing something there too?

Many Thanks
Purist
Actually 99% of the Internet is not in English. Search Google on 人 and you will see that the English Internet is just one segment.

Each language has it own script and domains registered in different scripts are totally independent of one another. Apple.com (English) is not Pomme.dot (French) com. Like wise Arabic and Chinese IDN are not the same.

The Punycode is a form of Machine Encodement that enable Unicode ( the funny writing) to resolve through the DNS. This extra level is not required for English domains as all the characters required for English are supported within the DNS. English is therefore a special case. Encodement, however, is nothing new. Everything ultimately is broken up into packets and sent as binary. Punycode is just an extra layer of encodement on top of whole load of other layers of encodement. It will always exist but in the future it will be much less evident. Most user won't even know what it is. For the time being, however, a lot of applications still do not support Unicode, so punycode crops up all over the place.
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Old 21st November 2006, 06:56 PM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Browser language settings are merely a preference indicator that the web server looks at to decide what language the surfer wants to see the website in. THy don't stop pages in other languages appearing properly - that's usually just a case of the computer not having the required fonts.

Only a minute portion of websites actually use browser language settings for what they're intended.
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Old 21st November 2006, 08:13 PM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Welcome to the forum , When you have fully got the grasp of IDN's check out http://IDNebook.com there is a free tutorial there to show you how to get started gold mining. Also there is alot of great information and people around here that will help you out.
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Last edited by thegenius1; 21st November 2006 at 09:11 PM..
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Old 21st November 2006, 09:03 PM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Welcome to the forum. There is some good information on IDNs and their development at Wikipedia.net. You can also read "old" threads here at IDNF which provide lots of information. Genius IDNEbook is informative, and it shows you some of the tricks to mining for some good IDNs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purist
If I were to register, for example, fruit.com in an IDN form, how many occurences of that IDN can I have.? For example can an IDN fruit.com exist in Chinese, another one in Arabic, another one in Czech, etc, etc. or does the Puny code apply to all these languages ?
Each language for most words has its native script- called "Unicode", which is then converted for internet purposes to "Punycode".

You recognize an IDN as it begins with xn-- + letters and numbers (+ .com, .net, jp etc.).
xn--i34tz67eo.com for example.

Punycode is made up of Latin letters A-Z, numbers 1-9 + 0, and - (hyphen).

On Registering: There are often many ways to say the same word in foreign languages. Check your total google scores, relevant word appearing as website titles, translate websites to check content, crosscheck spellings on translators, check ovt when possible, check bids or for paid ads, view google pics for relevancy, and above all check with a native speaker. Most here register at domainsite, but (also) use dynadot for the questionable reg's since they allow cancellation within a couple days for your "misses".
Happy IDN hunting, let us know what you find.

Last edited by bwhhisc; 22nd November 2006 at 12:26 AM.. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
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Old 21st November 2006, 09:49 PM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Thanks everyone for your help.

I will certainly check that URL out.
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Old 22nd November 2006, 01:01 AM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegenius1
Welcome to the forum , When you have fully got the grasp of IDN's check out http://IDNebook.com there is a free tutorial there to show you how to get started gold mining. Also there is alot of great information and people around here that will help you out.

It's only a demo??
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Old 22nd November 2006, 01:18 AM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by touchring
It's only a demo??
I'm not sure what you are asking ? , its the free version tutorial that teaches you how to find and reg idn's a-z , the tips and tricks cost 7.77 celebrating ie7 witch is 42.32 off the retail
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Old 22nd November 2006, 05:26 AM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thegenius1
I'm not sure what you are asking ? , its the free version tutorial that teaches you how to find and reg idn's a-z , the tips and tricks cost 7.77 celebrating ie7 witch is 42.32 off the retail

Meant to be a funny question.

Oops.

Last edited by touchring; 22nd November 2006 at 05:39 AM..
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Old 22nd November 2006, 08:00 AM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Purist
Hi

I have only recently learnt of IDN's and I am having great difficulty in understanding exactly how it works. I hope someone can clarify something for me?

If I were to register, for example, fruit.com in an IDN form, how many occurences of that IDN can I have.? For example can an IDN fruit.com exist in Chinese, another one in Arabic, another one in Czech, etc, etc. or does the Puny code apply to all these languages ? So if I were to type in fruit.com in Chinese it would take you to my site and a Russian who does likewise, in his language take you to the same site.

Also, since 99% of the Internet is in English, and IDN's are still in it's infancy, wouldn't it become a nuisance for the end user to keep changing language settings to browse between IDN and non-IDN sites. Or am I missing something there too?

Many Thanks
Purist
So let's take a different approach to answer your questions since I like to think that I understand this stuff but some of the explanations above went over my head.

IDN is just about how to allow for non-ASCII scripts like chinese, japanese, russian, etc in domain names - i.e. URLs. What you are asking is whether semantically a domain name is tied to multiple languages. Thus, I am not buying "apple" in french, I am buying "apple" in every language that exists with one domain purchase. This is not the case. If you think about this, you can easily see that such a semantic solution is extremely problematic. The real answer is that when buying IDNs, you pick the language you want first, then if the word you want is available in that language, you purchase it. If you want the word with the same meaning in another language, you have to go look it up and purchase it separately.

As for your other question, English is not really even close to 99% of the internet. Anyway, any IDN is really only valuable because of the native speakers of the target language. For example, a Japanese speaker only surfs the web in Japanese. His OS is even Japanese (mind blowing huh?). Therefore, he has no issue typing in and seeing Japanese IDNs. If he clicks on a google adsense ad in (you guessed it) Japanese, the payout is equivalent if not higher than what you can get paid for US traffic. So you see, users don't really have to "switch" between languages. The only users that matter for a given IDN already have the language in their computer and no switching back and forth is required.

Hope that helps.
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Old 22nd November 2006, 08:35 AM
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Re: Please help a noob.

Yes, RHYs said about just what i wanted to say.

IDN is about targeting - targeting towards local users. In terms of market reach, Japanese IDNs offer Japanese advertisers better targeting since it may screen out say surfers from China, India, USA, or elsewhere.

Currently, English ads get a lot of junk hits, unknown to many advertisers.
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