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Русские Доменные Имена Discussion on native Russian IDN domain names

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Old 5th January 2007, 08:05 PM
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good news - my observations...

i am a professional seo guy, but mostly work in the american market, so not quite familiar with most current situation in russian SE world, however i dealt with it before.

with my new interest in IDNs i've made a research on the market and have not so bad news for you guys - those who deal with idn.coms.

there is a chance that .com will not only beat the idn.ru but also will beat the idn.newrussianidntld (say: idn.rf - both in russian: домен.рф)

while yandex is #1 se in russia (some stats say: over 54% together with mail.ru whose SERP also comes from yandex), google is heavily increasing it's presence there. some stats say it's already about 24% - which means 24% of russian internet users use google to search for something on the web. it's not so bad already (it is like yahoo in the USA).

knowing for sure that despite i personally don't like google - it has quite strong alorithm which makes its results more relevant and clearer. (i love yahoo more for the better and more relevant results, but that's not a point here). google also has so many additional cool features, plus it's famous adwords and adsense programs - the last one is a love of many russian webmasters and they will promote google that way... and a known name, almost as known as yandex (in russia.)

that's why yandex started to heavily advertise on TV, radio and other mediums - it knows that google is quite serious about taking over the lion's share in the russian SE market. many russian seo-s and webmasters are always complaining about yandex's SERP and it really has lots of problems to be solved.

any way, i can talk a lot about it - but to make the long story short - my point is that google said it would continue its growth in russia - i am sure it would! for those who don't know -google love .com (it loves .gov and .edu more but those are not our cases) - .com is the king - .com means a lot in the US and market and even in europe - the new .eu will eed really much time to beat .com.

now, u know my point - it's another argument in favor of idn.com domains - google wouldn't support .ru or a new russian idn tld - google would support .com.

all the stats are not 100% accurate but quite close to be true. hope my point makes sense for you. if you agree or disagree, let's discuss it here.

any thoughts?
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Old 5th January 2007, 09:07 PM
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Re: good news - my observations...

Do you think the google algorithm looking at extension (.com, .net), or measuring 'relevance' of the website name and content to the 'term' a person is searching for?
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Old 5th January 2007, 09:33 PM
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Re: good news - my observations...

of course it measures relevancy -but do you think there is only one website that is relevant to a certain keyword (searched term)? ) of course not - there are hundreds of factors that are important for seo (how your site is ranked for certain keywords on the SERP (search engine's results page) and domain's extention is just one of them. but due to my experience it's an important one keeping in mind that we are talking about the situation when the domain name equals its keyword. when all other facts are equal or very close (which happens) .com domain extension would place this website higher than the same with .net extension - it's easy to check by creating 2 identical domains with the same amount of inbound links from the same sites, etc - all the same - only .com will appear in the SERP as the other one would be eliminated as a duplicate site.

moreover, .net domains also send almost all traffic from offline world to the same .com domains - if someone mentioned the site in the dialogue, or someone saw a tv or radio ad, or a poster or anything with the domain name in it - he/she will automatically think it's a .com domain - this is how many .net domains advertized/mentioned offline send free traffic to their .com competitors.

the situation is not the same russia though - .ru is more popular and known in russia - but it's going to be much more expensive to buy and almost all good ones will be already taken from the sunrise period registrations as far as i know - but 1. google probably would keep the advantage of .com over all others in their google.ru - which i presume is different from the google.com's one - since it needs to consider the word forms (in russia there are too many of them) and many other local factors - but the .com domain advantage will stay the same - as it is logical not to give away the money to other countries (Russia and most CIS countries in this case.) and for other reasons. in Russia .com is also a known brand - if the domain is mentioned somewhere offline and a person doesn't remember the extension in some cases he/she will automatically assume it's .ru but in some that it's .com - but the situation will change in favor of .com domains with the increase of the idn.com sales and the high cost of idn.ru domains. of course, these all are just my thoughts.
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Old 5th January 2007, 09:46 PM
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Re: good news - my observations...

What i would like to find out is...since surely there are many factors that determine serp's placement ...and surely the fact the actual keyword searched for is THE domain and/or included in the domain is an advantage.

What i would like to get some opinions of:

a. the 2 competing sites are relatively 'same' as for seo work done on them,content etc...but 1 is a ascii .ru domain hence not including the searched term within the domain but is Hosted in Russia and the other is a Russian idn Including the searched term within the domain and hosted elsewhere.
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Old 5th January 2007, 10:53 PM
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Re: good news - my observations...

to the best of my knowledge it totally doesn't matter for seo where your site is hosted. sometimes google's algorithm checks IPs of the domains that link to you to make sure it's not a link network create by your own sites (some say it even looks at the whois) and degrades those links from the same IP or same whois info. this is not confirmed anywhere, hard to check with experiments, but quite logical to be true.

in your question: if there 2 sites: one is ascii.ru another is idn.com - with all else relatively equal - i am positive the idn.com would have higher ranking - maybe not just in google, but even in yandex (since they also take the keyword-in-domain seriously as a relativity factor.)

but what if the situation with our idn.com domain and idn.ru domain when all else is equal? - well, i think today .ru domain will prevail in yandex 100%, but in google most likely .com domain will prevail - but that's questionnable- in future with the huge increase of the number of idn.com domains the situation will be different in favor of idn.com. imho.

the same situation with idn.newrussianidntld (say idn.рф) and idn.com - it will depend on so many new decisions on idn extensions so it's really hard to say right now. we'll see.
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Old 5th January 2007, 11:08 PM
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Re: good news - my observations...

I am not sure that extension is going to be highly relevant, indeed I am not convinced that it ever has been in Google.

What is absolutely certain is that once IDN is established and algorithms have been adjusted and bedded in, that having relevant cyrillic keywords in the domain is going to blast ASCII.ru back to the Stone Age, where it belongs, along with a lot of Neanderthal domainers.

In the Russian scenario, much depends on how fast RU comes on line and who gets what. The latest rules appear to be non-sensical, and won't guarantee all companies getting what they want. Dot RU also appear to be going to be very expensive by comparison with dot Com.

I think traditionally Yandex has tried to deliver locally relevant material and may have favoured dot RU. Even Google in Local Search mode will probably have done this as extension has been one of the main determinants as to whether a site is local or not. In the future, it may well be that Cyrillic Script in the domain may be more important than extension.
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Old 6th January 2007, 02:56 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

Yandex often fails to index .com sites in Russian whatsoever, until you pay to be included.
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Old 6th January 2007, 03:45 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

blastfromthepast - you are right. yandex prefers .ru... so our hopes are with google.
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Old 6th January 2007, 04:07 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

Quote:
Originally Posted by blastfromthepast
Yandex often fails to index .com sites in Russian whatsoever, until you pay to be included.
Hey, if that's the case, I wonder how long they'll hang around in competition with big G?
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Old 6th January 2007, 04:26 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

right now they are twice stronger than google - and it will really too much efforts from g to beat yandex. ) but i hope someday they will.
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Old 6th January 2007, 04:44 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

google is a friend for idners

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Old 6th January 2007, 05:45 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

tried it, but it's not on the first page... strange... i guess it's somewhere very far from top? the great thing that the domain is in bold - which makes us be sure, they can read idn domains.
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Old 6th January 2007, 06:01 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

it's june 2006 screenshot
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Old 6th January 2007, 06:15 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

oh, i see. ) so, does it mean big g doesn't like idns anymore? )
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Old 6th January 2007, 08:09 AM
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Re: good news - my observations...

Newly indexed domains by Google are shown high up for a few weeks to a month or so, after which they are ranked accordingly.

Never base your investment decisions on Google alone, make sure you get real type-in.

Last edited by touchring; 6th January 2007 at 08:14 AM..
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