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[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by IDNCowboy

many aren't the primary term... I almost regged paper.jp ペーパー.jp but its not "paper" Same with your "nude" and your "mobile" term
IMO waste of money - You're going to have to hold on to these names for a while

Jeff, there are no doubt some duds in there and I don't speak Japanese.
They mostly had decent serp, overture, bids etc. but some are no doubt secondary terms. I also checked the .com on all before regging...

You take your best shot in this game and play the odds to some degree. If I am lucky with 25% when IDNs take off it will be a good investment. I think that number will be closer to 75% in reality.

At any rate, you can find IDNs any way you like. My time is valuable and buying lists suited my needs. NONE of the lists I bought were bullshit or worthless. Maybe a few names, but overall an extreme amount of work went into them.

BTW- It is paper. Jim Breem Monash Japanese Dictionary will confirm that.
Maybe not as good as the Kanji...but "Paper" ペーパー.com and .net were reg'd in 2000' so someone must think they are OK to pay on them for 8 years. How about a few stats...

GOOGLE has 457,000 images of paper stuff:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=e...-8&sa=N&tab=wi


MONASH JAPANESE DICTIONARY- has it at top of list with definition as "paper" so I gotta think that is correct...

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/c...wwwjdic.cgi?1C (put in ペーパー and hit curser to search)

[jacksonm]

Lists are nothing more than something which some here try to pass off to newbies in the attempt to get a few bucks to mitigate their hefty renewal fees since the resale market is currently non-existent.

Again, don't fall for it. When I signed up here, I must have been offered these lists by at least 10 different people, along with all sorts of other services (consulting, etc). It really was amusing to watch people, no names mentioned but there were several, keep trying and trying to squeeze the newbie tax out of me. Save your money for domains when they are posted for sale or auction; every now and then if you are fast you can pick up a real gem on the cheap.

I know that you who are trying to push lists and other bs will definitely not like it, but I will continue to alert newbies about the scam. I try to look out for my fellow man when I can, newbie or otherwise.

.

[Rubber Duck]

Selling of non-primary terms is not limited to lists.

Most of the Flippers here are comparatively new to the game. Many of the names that are offered are not primary terms. This is particularly true of Japanese where there are multiple scripts and many alternatives.

Use your common sense. Simply banging these terms into a search engine will tell whether the terms have a common usage. If you use the local version of a search engine you should also be able to gauge the advertising demand for the keyword.

I must admit I would probably have bought a list from Alpha, if I had felt the need. There are few professionals of his calibre in this game. The reputation of the person you are dealing with is not something to be lightly dismissed.

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

I must admit I would probably have bought a list from Alpha, if I had felt the need. There are few professionals of his calibre in this game. The reputation of the person you are dealing with is not something to be lightly dismissed.

To clarify, Alpha never offered to sell me a list!

.

[domainguru]

Originally Posted by jacksonm

Lists are nothing more than something which some here try to pass off to newbies in the attempt to get a few bucks to mitigate their hefty renewal fees since the resale market is currently non-existent.

Again, don't fall for it. When I signed up here, I must have been offered these lists by at least 10 different people, along with all sorts of other services (consulting, etc). It really was amusing to watch people, no names mentioned but there were several, keep trying and trying to squeeze the newbie tax out of me. Save your money for domains when they are posted for sale or auction; every now and then if you are fast you can pick up a real gem on the cheap.

I know that you who are trying to push lists and other bs will definitely not like it, but I will continue to alert newbies about the scam. I try to look out for my fellow man when I can, newbie or otherwise.

.

But of course since you haven't bought a list, you wouldn't really know whether they were valuable or not .... suck it and see as they say. And no, I haven't got a list to sell you

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by domainguru

But of course since you haven't bought a list, you wouldn't really know whether they were valuable or not .... suck it and see as they say. And no, I haven't got a list to sell you

You, of all people, understand that there are other ways of surveying the availability situation of valuable names than with someone else's list.

.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by jacksonm

You, of all people, understand that there are other ways of surveying the availability situation of valuable names than with someone else's list.

.

Yes, but not everyone shares the level of sophistication that Domainguru and yourself have with computer systems.

My sister-in-law was on the phone last night trying to get some Sega Hedgehog game to work. She need some download patches it would seem.

After spending sometime on the phone it became clear that my attempts to navigate her in the right direction were simply being typed into the Search Box.

[domainguru]

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

Yes, but not everyone shares the level of sophistication that Domainguru and yourself have with computer systems.

My sister-in-law was on the phone last night trying to get some Sega Hedgehog game to work. She need some download patches it would seem.

After spending sometime on the phone it became clear that my attempts to navigate her in the right direction where simply being typed into the Search Box.

Yeah, everyone brings something different to the game. Some specific skills, some bags of enthusiasm, some language skills, some just loads of free time.

I haven't ever bought a list but I thought about buying the Japanese list Edwin was offering a couple of months back. He supplied solid reasons why the list was valuable. In the end, just didn't have time, but I'm sure that particular list would have had some gems on.

I also don't want to see newbies ripped off, but the world is a dangerous place, and in the end the only person that can look after you is yourself. Caveat emptor and all that.

[thegenius1]

Originally Posted by jacksonm

When I signed up here, I must have been offered these lists by at least 10 different people, along with all sorts of other services (consulting, etc).
.

I see you clarified that alpha never attempted to sell you a list , but i cant help to notice you specifically mention consulting. So i can only assume you are referring to my consulting service again. You've been a member here since Feb. 2007 , IDNconsulting was just launched last month and never solicited you prior or after.

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

Yes, but not everyone shares the level of sophistication that Domainguru and yourself have with computer systems.

Exaclty

[mulligan]

I would say that someone who's new to IDNs would have a hard time figuring out whether a list was any good or not and by the time they have figured out it's junk it's too late.

There are very few I would buy a list from, besides .. I have multiple gigabytes of list's of my own.

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by mulligan

I would say that someone who's new to IDNs would have a hard time figuring out whether a list was any good or not and by the time they have figured out it's junk it's too late.

Precisely.

Besides, you never know who is coming here. If it's a potentially large investor just trying to feel the place out and he/she immediately starts getting barraged with scams from several senior members, how long do you think he/she is going to be sticking around? Attempting to scam newbies gives the whole place a bad name as well as IDNs in general. We don't want to be collectively referred to on other boards and blogs as a group of scammers.

Think about the collective damage you are doing in return for some very small short term personal gain.

.

[domainguru]

Originally Posted by jacksonm

Precisely.

Besides, you never know who is coming here. If it's a potentially large investor just trying to feel the place out and he/she immediately starts getting barraged with scams from several senior members, how long do you think he/she is going to be sticking around? Attempting to scam newbies gives the whole place a bad name as well as IDNs in general. We don't want to be collectively referred to on other boards and blogs as a group of scammers.

Think about the collective damage you are doing in return for some very small short term personal gain.

.

All this "scamming" (your word not mine) obviously didn't stop you from sticking around....

You talk like "potentially large investors" are in need of babysitting. Such people are just as capable as you as ignoring offers they don't want to pick up on. And if they decide to run off just because they get offered a few lists by keen members, they obviously weren't serious in the first place.

You obviously don't like the idea of "list selling", but I'm sure there are dozens of people on this forum that have bought lists and got some value from them.

[touchring]

I got "scammed" to buy a list the other day (nothing to do with this forum), and i found later out i could get it from the internet, but hack, it's just a few bucks, just treat it as a movie outing! Learning cost is part of doing business. Just don't make sure you paid too much.

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by jacksonm

Lists are nothing more than something which some here try to pass off to newbies in the attempt to get a few bucks to mitigate their hefty renewal fees since the resale market is currently non-existent.

Again, don't fall for it. When I signed up here, I must have been offered these lists by at least 10 different people, along with all sorts of other services (consulting, etc). It really was amusing to watch people, no names mentioned but there were several, keep trying and trying to squeeze the newbie tax out of me. Save your money for domains when they are posted for sale or auction; every now and then if you are fast you can pick up a real gem on the cheap.

QUOTE: Again, don't fall for it.

Just wondering how can you possibly critique lists you have never seen?

And just for full disclosure, I did offer Michael .jp lists at less than I paid for them...actually was just trying to do him a favor.
Never "hounded" him or anyone else and certainly wasn't doing it to pay renewal fees.

Sorry to say, but you missed a golden .jp opportunity. You never saw the lists...so you cannot adequately comment
or critique how good or bad they were. All I am going to say is they were compiled with the brain power of 2 or 3 senior
members here who will remain anonymous!

In the end my "list" buying added $1 to the cost of each name registered. Overall the list purchases are about 1/2 of
my IDN portfolio and some of my best names. It worked great for me, but guess its not for everyone.

[Rubber Duck]

Sounds like an expensive pass.

The problem with selling lists it is all inherently done blind. Very difficult call to make either way.

Anyway, if anyone here thinks Bill would have worked one over them, now is the time to put that notion to bed. If I were looking to new register, I would have taken the list, except I would have access to it higher up the food chain, probably. That is where making the right contacts comes in.

Having said that dot JP was about the only game left in town and that is getting pretty much played out as well. If you all waiting for the new extensions to emerge, then that is a sad place to be, because you will get next to squat, and they will probably be worthless anyway.

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by jacksonm

You, of all people, understand that there are other ways of surveying the availability situation of valuable names than with someone else's list. .

Care to show us the quality of what you found on your own?

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

Anyway, if anyone here thinks Bill would have worked one over them, now is the time to put that
notion to bed. If I was looking to new register, I would have taken the list, except I would have access to it higher up
the food chain probably. That is where making the right contacts come in.

Thanks for that Dave, but I didn't make up the lists. They were done up by the likes of guys like Bram, Alpha, Genius,
Chinastar, Jose, BurnsInternet and you (the latter two...RD and Burns I might add generously gave me lead and lists
for free). There are more names I could add to the list...but you know who you and please accept my thanks as well.

There you go...I have named the names. No second stringers in that group I assure you and no bullsh*t lists from this
set of minds I can doubly assure you. Any lists you would have got from me were the initial work of the above members
here, with in many cases dozens of hours of additional statistics and scoring by college students we hired at this end.

So now I will publically credit these guys for being at the top of this game, knowing how to run scripts, breaking down
complex dictionaries and scoring tens of thousands of terms for ovt, serp, bids etc. Each of them no doubt have absolutely
sh*t kicking IDN portfolios because the lists were truly inspiring in some cases. So to each of you please accept my
sincere thanks and appreciation to all. So for you newbies that want quality lists, now you know who to call

[Rubber Duck]

I remember talking to Alpha at length about this and the drop scene. There was some really clever stuff going down, but you can only gorge for so long, and we were out of the game.

The other aspect to this is that these guys had overheads. It wasn't just all for nothing. Why should they pass on list for free?

[jacksonm]

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

I remember talking to Alpha at length about this and the drop scene. There was some really clever stuff going down, but you can only gorge for so long, and we were out of the game.

The other aspect to this is that these guys had overheads. It wasn't just all for nothing. Why should they pass on list for free?

Oddly enough, it was Alpha who gave me a big Japanese list for free early on (via PM). He had posted it publicly, and edited his post after enough many people got pissed off at him for sharing. The guy just doesn't seem to get any appreciation for trying to help others.

.

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by Rubber Duck

The other aspect to this is that these guys had overheads. It wasn't just all for nothing. Why should they pass on list for free?

The lists cost because they all had lots of labor, manhours and TIME associated with them.
In some cases hundreds of hours I am sure. I know that I paid college kids for well over 100 hours
of work to further refine lists I paid for, do physical check on google pages, wikipedia, compile the bids
for each term, etc. It was all a game of hours and time and that simply costs money.

Most sold lists to me at their cost of recouping their out of pocket costs. All in all it was the best money I have spent.
Especially now as things get thin, lists are probably the only way to go to cut thru the massive amount of search.

[mulligan]

Originally Posted by bwhhisc

(the latter two...RD and Burns I might add generously gave me lead and lists for free).

Damn .. How come I didn't get any free lists ..