Fair Play: are you here to help or to copycat other members IDNs?

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by touchring

Looks like the first come first served law are common in both Japan and China - it doesn't matter if your trademark is McDonalds'. If Mr ABC registers that trademark first in China or Japan, it's his trademark.

Quality generics cannot be threatened by trademarking in any civilised society. I somehow doubt that Japanese system is so corrupt that it would allow this happen. However, if that is the case it will only serve to drastically increase the value of dot com to the detriment of dot jp.

[touchring]

Looks like the first come first served law are common in both Japan and China - it doesn't matter if your trademark is McDonalds'. If Mr ABC registers that trademark first in China or Japan, it's his trademark.

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by touchring

Looks like the first come first served law are common in both Japan and China - it doesn't matter if your trademark is McDonalds'. If Mr ABC registers that trademark first in China or Japan, it's his trademark.

But "the company" that decides to challenge you and can afford to do it will just break financially and put you in the poorhouse with lawyer fees and court costs til you relent. And once you can't afford to fight (assuming ACLU type organizations are not providing your legal aid for free) they will often prevail. At least thats how it seems to works in the US.

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by bwhhisc

But "the company" that decides to challenge you and can afford to do it will just break financially and put you in the poorhouse with lawyer fees and court costs til you relent. And once you can't afford to fight (assuming ACLU type organizations are not providing your legal aid for free) they will often prevail. At least thats how it seems to works in the US.

Yes, except that if you have a copper bottomed case, you can keep you legal expenses to a minimum with a simple statement of the facts. If they want to drone of for weeks and months off the point, that is entirely their affair, but no relevence is no relevence. If you register a quality generic they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

Originally Posted by bwhhisc

Yes, they were obvious. And Huron is from S. America I believe, and I am sure anime is also known there, but not a "mainstream" word like in Japan. Anime is 10x more popular in Japan than in US, but the term is known to most. My point is that Olney published that this was one of his "favorite" IDNs, and I am sure that this had a "small" part in the spark for Huron registering anime.tv. So the forum may have provided some basis; is there something wrong with him registering this...no way!



DWC- I don't think any threats against any other forum member are approprate here. He is entitled to his opinion and you are to yours.

What exactly is the problem, the idea to register dot TV IDN seem to be exclusively those of Touchring and Huron. Perhaps they should argue that nobody else has the right to register dot TV.

This forum is for the exchange of ideas. In this case that is clearly what has happened. I cannot understand why any rational person would have a problem with that! I am pretty sure Olney doesn't!

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by Dwrixon

Yes, except that if you have a copper bottomed case, you can keep you legal expenses to a minimum with a simple statement of the facts. If they want to drone of for weeks and months off the point, that is entirely their affair, but no relevence is no relevence. If you register a quality generic they don't have a legal leg to stand on.

Our company got into a similar legal scrape and we found that they had attempted the same with others (over statuary design- www.propworld.com). First they start with a lawsuit in State Court, thats expensive, but nothing like when it gets appealed to Federal Court where the money to fight gets big, and typically you are fighting out of state which makes appearances expensive and frustrating. You show up with your attorney and they ask for continuance. Now you have to pay your attorney to reappear at the rescheduled date. Meanwhile the attorneys are "talking" and the $$$ is running up. Then they start filing motions for "discovery" and you have to pay your lawyer to respond. They just keep it up til they break you and you finally settle or relent. Unfair and frustrating, but "anyone can sue anyone for anything" unfortunately. Been there....

[Rubber Duck]

Originally Posted by bwhhisc

Our company got into a similar legal scrape and we found that they had attempted the same with others (over statuary design- www.propworld.com). First they start with a lawsuit in State Court, thats expensive, but nothing like when it gets appealed to Federal Court where the money to fight gets big, and typically you are fighting out of state which makes appearances expensive and frustrating. You show up with your attorney and they ask for continuance. Now you have to pay your attorney to reappear at the rescheduled date. Meanwhile the attorneys are "talking" and the $$$ is running up. Then they start filing motions for "discovery" and you have to pay your lawyer to respond. They just keep it up til they break you and you finally settle or relent. Unfair and frustrating, but "anyone can sue anyone for anything" unfortunately. Been there....

Yes, I think the British system is probably much better at filtering out and kicking into the long grass cases without merit. Furthermore, you can sue in the UK against maliceous prosecution, so US types actions would often end up with punative damages against the plaintive.

Unfortunately, the law is parasitic organism that is largely self-serving and written and enacted by those that stand to benefit most. It is sold to public on the basis of providing justice for all, but this is largely a cruel delusion.

[sarcle]

This whole thread just has nasty karma written all over it.

[donwebcorleone]

Originally Posted by sarcle

This whole thread just has nasty karma written all over it.

i completely agree. it seems there are too much greed around...

one thing is to inspire yourself from what others are registering to register something different based on what you learnt, another is just to go and register the extension that are left and possible variations. anyway i like fair game and for me fair game is not to copy registrations available or something similar. it was someone else research, not mine.

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by donwebcorleone

anyway i like fair game and for me fair game is not to copy registrations available or something similar. it was someone else research, not mine.

THEN YOUR ONLY SOLUTION- DON'T POST YOUR DOMAINS!!! There is nothing unfair about others registering anything that is open as voiced by the majority responding to this thread. Besides, I would much rather another Forum member gets the .net than anyone else.

We are sharing information here, publically and privately, and in the end helping each other to get a better portfolio. Are you suggesting that if someone posts a name NO ONE should be allowed to register behind them? Sooner or later all these ".nets" will be discovered and registered one way or another, so what's the big deal?? If you think you might want the .net, get private appraisals, or reg them outright. If they are even halfass decent you can always reg them to "protect", and sell them off if they aren't as good as you thought. Most will be worth at least $8 bucks on resale.

[donwebcorleone]

in regard to trademarks, im sorry about being mean to that guy. my apologies but he really pissed me off.

anyway a story about trademarks in Japan, several years ago a poor guy who was fan of the second most famous baseball team in Japan (something like New York Yankees) did his research and he found out the name of the team wasnt a registered trademark, so he thought i ll try to register, voila! he got the trademark from the Hanshin Tiger from Osaka -first come first served- and now everytime someone buys a t-shirt, baseball cap, or any souvenir from this super famous team is paying him royalties for his trademark. smart guy? corrupt system? who knows, the point is that he now mades a fortune on someone else work.

i did start registering several IDNs as trademarks in Japan, it doenst hurt me to be cautious after all u read my thread about legal issues regarding IDNs in Japan. the trademarks system in japan is quite strange, cases are taken on case per case basis. but as u read from the story of this japanese guys and this "japanese New York Yankees", a trademark is a trademark, he registered first, he got it and now he is a rich guy.

my guess is that in china trademarks will be even easier to register, more corruption or more legal loopholes to opportunistic guys. anyway i m trying always to play fair and share some information. but if u dont have something nice to say, dont say it. thats at least is the minimum we should expect from other members.

[sarcle]

Originally Posted by donwebcorleone

i completely agree. it seems there are too much greed around...

I guess I didn't make myself clear enough. We share information here. I know that the .net's will be registered and other variations as soon as I post them. This is part of the "tax" of sharing info. This is also why I don't list the ones in the areas I am trying to corner. It works both ways you know. Someone registering the .nets helps the value of mine. We are competing and working together. I personally would rather have my .net's go to people on this forum rather than the "jonny-come-lately's"

But the direct attacks of other people that have helped all of us by sharing info needs to stop.

[IDNCowboy]

Originally Posted by donwebcorleone

in regard to trademarks, im sorry about being mean to that guy. my apologies but he really pissed me off.

anyway a story about trademarks in Japan, several years ago a poor guy who was fan of the second most famous baseball team in Japan (something like New York Yankees) did his research and he found out the name of the team wasnt a registered trademark, so he thought i ll try to register, voila! he got the trademark from the Hanshin Tiger from Osaka -first come first served- and now everytime someone buys a t-shirt, baseball cap, or any souvenir from this super famous team is paying him royalties for his trademark. smart guy? corrupt system? who knows, the point is that he now mades a fortune on someone else work.

i did start registering several IDNs as trademarks in Japan, it doenst hurt me to be cautious after all u read my thread about legal issues regarding IDNs in Japan. the trademarks system in japan is quite strange, cases are taken on case per case basis. but as u read from the story of this japanese guys and this "japanese New York Yankees", a trademark is a trademark, he registered first, he got it and now he is a rich guy.

my guess is that in china trademarks will be even easier to register, more corruption or more legal loopholes to opportunistic guys. anyway i m trying always to play fair and share some information. but if u dont have something nice to say, dont say it. thats at least is the minimum we should expect from other members.

I am very confused.... I thought from reading these boards it was China that didn't give a hoopla about trademarks and Japan was a country not to mess with and they'd side with McDonalds etc?

[bwhhisc]

Originally Posted by donwebcorleone

i m trying always to play fair and share some information. but if u dont have something nice to say, dont say it. thats at least is the minimum we should expect from other members.

DonWebCorleone- a nice way to finish up this thread. I think your comment that if "u dont have something nice to say, dont say it" should be the golden rule of the forum. i gotta say, you certainly got a lot of wind on this thread! Now were all playing on the same field...

[Clotho]

Originally Posted by Dwrixon

Quality generics cannot be threatened by trademarking in any civilised society. I somehow doubt that Japanese system is so corrupt that it would allow this happen. However, if that is the case it will only serve to drastically increase the value of dot com to the detriment of dot jp.

While I agree with your opinion I would be more comfortable with greater proof that this is the case. I have been searching the WIPO files for any decisions that are associated with names that had the complaintant registering a trademark after the date that the name was registered. So far I haven't been able to find any even though I know examples exist.

Can anyone here point me to an example of this?

[kenne]

Don,

That case about Henshin Tiger is interesting. But I'd think that generics trademark is unregisterable or undefendable, like in the US.

[donwebcorleone]

Originally Posted by Jeff

I am very confused.... I thought from reading these boards it was China that didn't give a hoopla about trademarks and Japan was a country not to mess with and they'd side with McDonalds etc?

Jeff, what i meant is that in this case this famous baseball team didnt have a trademark so this guy went and registered the name as his trademark and now he is a rich guy.

the same with many domainers they have a great IDN, but they dont have the trademark, so if a guy goes through all the legal steps and register it as his trademark, and he will get it and later he can reclaim your IDN is his trademark! and well what cant u do? fight $$$$ against the owner of a trademark is an uphill battle.

now u dont register mcdonalds.jp because they do have trademarks. the problem is when u have a great domain but a guy goes first to register it as his trademark. u will have a hell of a battle to get it back. As u read on my story even the japanese New York Yankees with all their money and fame, they now have to pay to the guy who registered as a trademark their name! thats what i call screw someone big time! or being too smart, who knows...

[touchring]

Actually, that's fair game. Trademarks should not be international.

The first guy that pays money to register a trademark in a country should be the owner.

[IDNCowboy]

Originally Posted by donwebcorleone

Jeff, what i meant is that in this case this famous baseball team didnt have a trademark so this guy went and registered the name as his trademark and now he is a rich guy.

the same with many domainers they have a great IDN, but they dont have the trademark, so if a guy goes through all the legal steps and register it as his trademark, and he will get it and later he can reclaim your IDN is his trademark! and well what cant u do? fight $$$$ against the owner of a trademark is an uphill battle.

now u dont register mcdonalds.jp because they do have trademarks. the problem is when u have a great domain but a guy goes first to register it as his trademark. u will have a hell of a battle to get it back. As u read on my story even the japanese New York Yankees with all their money and fame, they now have to pay to the guy who registered as a trademark their name! thats what i call screw someone big time! or being too smart, who knows...

If I'm in America they can't do anything unless they pay extra and get an international trademark with the madrid accord... isn't that correct? Like I'd setup an American shop in japanese.

maybe that ISN't the case for .jp for for .com they can try

[Clotho]

I have been doing some research on this issue to see where WIPO stands on it. While I am not a lawyer and do not profess to offer advice I did find the following excerpt of interest.

1.4 Does the complainant have UDRP-relevant trademark rights in a mark that was registered/acquired unregistered trademark rights after the disputed domain name was registered?

Consensus view: Registration of a domain name before a complainant acquires trademark rights in a name does not prevent a finding of identity or confusing similarity. The UDRP makes no specific reference to the date of which the owner of the trade or service mark acquired rights. However it can be difficult to prove that the domain name was registered in bad faith as it is difficult to show that the domain name was registered with a future trademark in mind.

The original can be found here:
http://arbiter.wipo.int/domains/sear.../index.html#14

It is important to note that in UDRP cases Bad Faith must be proven by the claimant for a transfer to occur. It would appear that registering a trademark after the domain is registered would make this very difficult. I believe the .jp registry follows the UDRP as well.

This doesn't preclude a trademark holder from pursuing legal action in court but I believe chances are that if the claimant wouldn't win the case in the inexpensive UDRP dispute process ($1500) they won't have much better luck in the much much more expensive court system.

It should also be noted that the example presented (Baseball team name) is neither generic nor is it a domain name.

[blastfromthepast]