Is anyone interested in $15 backorders for IDNs?

[ThisDot]

I'm currently operating a $15 backorder service. I don't offer IDNs at this point, but would like to gauge the interest level. Please let me know if you would be interested in this. Also let me know if you would like to backorder any non IDNs for $15 as this service is currently available.

Thanks,
David

IDN Backorders are now available!!!

Place orders in puny code and include the language for the lang. tag.

PM me or for more details check this thread:

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/10700-risk-free-backorders-%2415-each-no-money-up-front-idns-available.html#post67949

Thanks,
David

[dnnames]

Greatly interested, however how does it operate?

[jacksonm]

Greatly interested, however how does it operate?

As in $15 *if* you get the name for me, or $15 just for trying?

.

[ThisDot]

As in $15 *if* you get the name for me, or $15 just for trying?

.

The service is not yet operational for IDN names. It is ready to go for non-IDNs. It is $15 only if successful. If enough people express an interest I will get it setup for IDNs. If you would be interested, please post here. Also it is only available for .com .net .org .biz .info and .us domains.

Thanks,
David

[alpha]

The service is not yet operational for IDN names. It is ready to go for non-IDNs. It is $15 only if successful. If enough people express an interest I will get it setup for IDNs. If you would be interested, please post here. Also it is only available for .com .net .org .biz .info and .us domains.

Thanks,
David

and you have the firepower to beat SnapNames to the catch?

[Rubber Duck]

and you have the firepower to beat SnapNames to the catch?

He would need the firepower to get names that Snaps have already secured before they "drop"! Snaps has the main IDN outlets in its pockets. I am not even sure they do competitive dropping anymore. I think they just mothballed the equipment when they signed up the registrars.

[ThisDot]

and you have the firepower to beat SnapNames to the catch?

I do occasionally catch names that snapnames is going after. I can also catch many names that you may not want to pay $60 each for, but would like to have for $15. Let me know if you would have any interest in my expanding into IDNs.

Thanks,
David

[kleszcz]

Hi ThisDot. I've recently bought several good names from him and definitely worth trying. :)

[alpha]

excuse my cynicism, but

a) if it's not worth $60, it's not worth anything

b) if it is worth something and you catch it, why would you sell it at $15

[touchring]

I do occasionally catch names that snapnames is going after. I can also catch many names that you may not want to pay $60 each for, but would like to have for $15. Let me know if you would have any interest in my expanding into IDNs.

Thanks,
David


Question: What happens if 2 person ordered the name from you?

Everyday, there are so few idns worth catching in the first place, probably a handful a day, at $15, there will probably be a dozen guys going after each name, how are you going to handle this?

This is not like ASCII where there are tens of thousands of names and people catch junk.

[Rubber Duck]

It could be the old problem of not charging enough so people don't value you properly, but my only experience of a very cheap catching service was Godaddy.

What did they catch? Not a bloody cold!

[ThisDot]

Question: What happens if 2 person ordered the name from you?

Everyday, there are so few idns worth catching in the first place, probably a handful a day, at $15, there will probably be a dozen guys going after each name, how are you going to handle this?

This is not like ASCII where there are tens of thousands of names and people catch junk.

It is handled on a first come, first served basis. If someone has already ordered a name I would respond to the second person and let them know that the name is already taken. This happens with ASCII domains as well.

[ThisDot]

excuse my cynicism, but

a) if it's not worth $60, it's not worth anything

b) if it is worth something and you catch it, why would you sell it at $15


a) I understand that everyone has a different prospective on what is valuable and what is not. If you don't like dealing with low profit domains, that is fine, but if you can buy domains for $15 and sell them for $30 you are doubling your money which is worth alot to many people.

b) The reason I am willing to sell domains for $15 is because you are the one doing the research to find the valuable names and I am focusing on catching them. I make a little bit of profit of each name without having to spend time researching them.

Maybe you should look at areas where there is a gap in the market, and not already dominated by major monolopolies. ie. the .JP market - from what I understand it is wide open and is the playground of a handful of manual catchers.

Thanks for the tip. I am planning on expanding into country code domains, but am spending alot of time catching domains in the major extensions at the moment. IDNs in the main ext. will be an easier transition first due to pricing, etc. I will be sure to let everyone know if and when I do begin offering services in other extensions. What extensions would everyone be interested in? The obvious first choices would be .co.uk .de and .jp, any others?

[grubstaker]

When do you suspect this service to start?

[ThisDot]

When do you suspect this service to start?

It is currently available for ASCII domains. If the interest is strong, it could be operational for IDNs by the begining of next month. Anyone that is interested, be sure and post here so I can gauge the level of interest.

[alpha]

What extensions would everyone be interested in? The obvious first choices would be .co.uk .de and .jp, any others?

far be it from me to lecture you, but it sounds like you are happy dealing in scraps that are only available because no one else wanted them.

You would be far better moving into a market with little competition, where there is demand for such a service.

I can tell you that .co.uk is monopolised by scripters - you will need some hefty firepower to compete there.

I don't know the .de market

[Muhammad Mustafa]

b) if it is worth something and you catch it, why would you sell it at $15
as am really interseted in this service, but a q. in my mind want to have answer forand I found it posted by alpha. I have a couple of question may be very important to be answered here:
1- as I didn't see a website for the service posted here, I suppose you will provide this service through mails or so .. what if I did a search to found a name and asked you to snap it and you told me its being backordered by some one else, while nobody did .. then I made the search you snapped the name and sell it as you like and nothing to prove in this case.
2- lets suppose a great name like (realestate.com) for example will drop and I backordered it from you and name snaped by you .. why you have to give it for me for 15$ while you can sell it for more $$$??
just a little of thing to think in before trying such a service, I may try your service soon with ascii names to see :)

*alpha, congrats on new nice avatar ;)

[Rubber Duck]

So you don't believe in Santa Claus, but you do did believe in the Tooth Fairy, or did I get that the wrong way around?

[Giant]

I will place 100 orders each day at $15 per name if you are willing to pay me $1 for each name you fail to catch. This way, I would not waste my time for nothing and the $1 compensation will force you to improve your catch power. Deal?

[Rubber Duck]

I will place 100 orders each day at $15 per name if you are willing to pay me $1 for each name you fail to catch. This way, I would not waste my time for nothing and the $1 compensation will force you to improve your catch power. Deal?

Now you really do believe in the Tooth Fairy!

[ThisDot]

as am really interseted in this service, but a q. in my mind want to have answer forand I found it posted by alpha. I have a couple of question may be very important to be answered here:
1- as I didn't see a website for the service posted here, I suppose you will provide this service through mails or so .. what if I did a search to found a name and asked you to snap it and you told me its being backordered by some one else, while nobody did .. then I made the search you snapped the name and sell it as you like and nothing to prove in this case.
2- lets suppose a great name like (realestate.com) for example will drop and I backordered it from you and name snaped by you .. why you have to give it for me for 15$ while you can sell it for more $$$??
just a little of thing to think in before trying such a service, I may try your service soon with ascii names to see :)

*alpha, congrats on new nice avatar ;)

I have not gotten a website setup yet. I have plans for that in the future, but finding time is getting increasingly difficult. I do catch names for myself as well as for others, however if you find the name first it will be your name if successfully captured. You can check my trader rating/feedback at the major domain forums for references. I have captured some very good names for customers and they always get the name, including names easily sold for $xxx or more and names generating $x.xx revenue per day (domains are temp. parked with my parking service until you change the nameservers.) You do the work to find the domains, you get the reward. I am making enough catching many domains at a small profit per name and don't wish to ruin that to make a few hundred bucks at someone elses expense. I don't take any orders for 3char.com, NNNN .com/.net or LLL/NNN domains in any extension as I attempt to catch all of those for myself. I also catch most decent LLLL.com for resale and a few other types of domains. No matter how good the name is, if you find it first then you will get it if I am successful. I am aware that I am new to this forum, but I have been around a while at DNF, NP etc. and am in this business for the long haul. PM me if you would like to try it out with some ASCII domains. Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

P.S. I use the same username at all of the forums.

[Giant]

Now you really do believe in the Tooth Fairy!

No, I believe in Santa Claus :-)

[Rubber Duck]

I have not gotten a website setup yet. I have plans for that in the future, but finding time is getting increasingly difficult. I do catch names for myself as well as for others, however if you find the name first it will be your name if successfully captured. You can check my trader rating/feedback at the major domain forums for references. I have captured some very good names for customers and they always get the name, including names easily sold for $xxx or more and names generating $x.xx revenue per day (domains are temp. parked with my parking service until you change the nameservers.) You do the work to find the domains, you get the reward. I am making enough catching many domains at a small profit per name and don't wish to ruin that to make a few hundred bucks at someone elses expense. I don't take any orders for 3char.com, NNNN .com/.net or LLL/NNN domains in any extension as I attempt to catch all of those for myself. I also catch most decent LLLL.com for resale and a few other types of domains. No matter how good the name is, if you find it first then you will get it if I am successful. I am aware that I am new to this forum, but I have been around a while at DNF, NP etc. and am in this business for the long haul. PM me if you would like to try it out with some ASCII domains. Hope this helps clear things up a bit.

P.S. I use the same username at all of the forums.

Well maybe if you make enough, I might be able to interest you in some single characters!

[Giant]

Well maybe if you make enough, I might be able to interest you in some single characters!

No, I believe he kept and he will keep single characters for himself.

[IDNer]

I guess that ThisDot don't have any IDN in hand, and he won't think that the single character's IDN is SINGLE character Domain

[Rubber Duck]

No, I believe he kept and he will keep single characters for himself.

I think Alpha hit it square on the head this time.

You can have anything you want as long as nobody else is interested!

[ThisDot]

I guess that ThisDot don't have any IDN in hand, and he won't think that the single character's IDN is SINGLE character Domain

That's correct. I don't have any IDNs of my own, and I haven't even checked to make sure that all the single character IDN .coms are taken yet. I'm sure someone else has checked it out though. I am not talking about investing in IDNs, I am wondering if anyone that is investing in them is interested in catching them on the drop for $15 each. Thanks for all the comments, but I think this thread is starting to get off topic.

[bwhhisc]

I will place 100 orders each day at $15 per name if you are willing to pay me $1 for each name you fail to catch. This way, I would not waste my time for nothing and the $1 compensation will force you to improve your catch power. Deal?
This is a tough crowd here at IDNF.
Hardened speculators and many degrees of risk takers.

[Giant]

I guess that ThisDot don't have any IDN in hand, and he won't think that the single character's IDN is SINGLE character Domain
You failed to understand the humour IDNer. "Single characters" here are Ascii single characters.

[Rubber Duck]

You failed to understand the humour IDNer. "Single characters" here are Ascii single characters.

No, actually you are ahead of me, but if he reckons he can get those I would put up $15 myself!

[Giant]

No, actually you are ahead of me, but if he reckons he can get those I would put up $15 myself!

Now you really do believe in the Tooth Fairy!

[rhys]

ThisDot. The answer is, "yes", this is interesting to me. Especially at $15 for each success.
Please let me know when you are ready with IDNs

[ThisDot]

ThisDot. The answer is, "yes", this is interesting to me. Especially at $15 for each success.
Please let me know when you are ready with IDNs

Thanks, I will let you know when it is up and running.

[IDNer]

Thanks, I will let you know when it is up and running.


Let me know too, I'd like to give it a trial.

[Muhammad Mustafa]

RD, I believe in you ;)

I taked a fast check at ThisDot profile at DNF and NP and thats is the results:
http://www.dnforum.com/itrader.php?u=65132
http://www.namepros.com/traderratings.php?u=33696
DNF: 51 positive commenet, 1 natural, 0 Negative, Verfied member
NP: 45 positive commenet, 0 natural, 0 Negative
Good comments (in most)
I think this worthing try in ascii, in IDNs when published :)
good luck ThisDot, every body

[Fka200]

Dot, let me know as well. I would be interested in trying something new.

[touchring]

ThisDot. The answer is, "yes", this is interesting to me. Especially at $15 for each success.
Please let me know when you are ready with IDNs


With japanese names, you're going to get 20 backorders per name. And most days, there are only 1-2 japanese names to backorder, i can't see how it wouldn't end up as an auction for japanese names with so many fighting over just one or two. :)

[ThisDot]

Dot, let me know as well. I would be interested in trying something new.

ASCII domains are currently available. I am going to get everything IDN compatible and I will let everyone know when it is operational for IDNs.

[rhys]

With japanese names, you're going to get 20 backorders per name. And most days, there are only 1-2 japanese names to backorder, i can't see how it wouldn't end up as an auction for japanese names with so many fighting over just one or two. :)

Probably, but I'll try it. As long as it is pay for performance, why not? I don't have any better alternative.

[Muhammad Mustafa]

I just being verfied via PM that
ThisDot at DF and NP is the same one here :)
it will be very interested to try :)

[jacksonm]

ASCII domains are currently available. I am going to get everything IDN compatible and I will let everyone know when it is operational for IDNs.


IDNs _are_ ascii domains. DNS does not function with other than ascii domain names.

The only place where IDNs are translated to the representation of multi-byte characters is locally on your computer, via the use of idn libraries (libidn for linux, similar for windows). When you type pää.com into your web browser, the browser will convert it to "xn--p-0faa.com" before sending the name over the wire to your DNS server to do an IP address lookup.

For all intents and purposes, there is zero difference between catching foobar.com and xn--wba.com.

Getting "set up" for IDN catching means nothing more than figuring out the list of prime words which you want to keep for yourself... Honestly...

.

[Fka200]

Getting "set up" for IDN catching means nothing more than figuring out the list of prime words which you want to keep for yourself... Honestly...

.


Exactly.

[Rubber Duck]

Wrong, there is the little matter of setting up the drop registration software to input the Language Tag into the Registry, otherwise the whole thing goes belly up.

IDNs _are_ ascii domains. DNS does not function with other than ascii domain names.

The only place where IDNs are translated to the representation of multi-byte characters is locally on your computer, via the use of idn libraries (libidn for linux, similar for windows). When you type pää.com into your web browser, the browser will convert it to "xn--p-0faa.com" before sending the name over the wire to your DNS server to do an IP address lookup.

For all intents and purposes, there is zero difference between catching foobar.com and xn--wba.com.

Getting "set up" for IDN catching means nothing more than figuring out the list of prime words which you want to keep for yourself... Honestly...

.

[jacksonm]

Wrong, there is the little matter of setting up the drop registration software to input the Language Tag into the Registry, otherwise the whole thing goes belly up.

I hear you, but I really doubt this matters. I believe that there are hundreds of thousands of xn-- domains registered without any language tags, they are still unique, and they will still show the same characters in your browser's address bar.

.

[Rubber Duck]

I hear you, but I really doubt this matters. I believe that there are hundreds of thousands of xn-- domains registered without any language tags, they are still unique, and they will still show the same characters in your browser's address bar.

.

Look I have sort of been through this process. Trust me you will need for the script to input the language tag.

[jacksonm]

Look I have sort of been through this process. Trust me you will need for the script to input the language tag.

Yes, I agree that a tag should be there. But I'm saying that it doesn't matter which tag you input. The language tag is completely useless. There are no punycode collisions. The browser does not query the language tag from a registry to determine which script to render. You can register chinese punycode with an arabic tag, and it still renders as chinese characters in your browser...

Or can you explain in concrete detail why you believe the language tag matters? I'm interested in hearing.

.

[alpha]

Yes, I agree that a tag should be there. But I'm saying that it doesn't matter which tag you input. The language tag is completely useless. There are no punycode collisions. The browser does not query the language tag from a registry to determine which script to render. You can register chinese punycode with an arabic tag, and it still renders as chinese characters in your browser...

Or can you explain in concrete detail why you believe the language tag matters? I'm interested in hearing.

.

i think i registered all of my idns at Domainsite with the Afrikaans tag - i think thats the default.

[jacksonm]

i think i registered all of my idns at Domainsite with the Afrikaans tag - i think thats the default.

Same here. When I'm not lazy, I'll drop down the list, but for the most part, Afrikaans...

.

[Rubber Duck]

I agree that the registry will not generally distinguish between languages, but it does check things like mixed Latin and Cyrillic Scripts, and there then there is the complexity of the Chinese Block. But you are correct in general it makes no difference which code you input, as long as you do input one.

ASCII scripts don't input any language tag. For ASCII domains you don't need to do this, there is effectively no field to fill in. With IDN it is different. If your script doesn't fill in the field then the registration fails. It may well be that you can input random rubbish and get away with it most of the time. If you input nothing, that is precisely what will happen.

Don't ask me how to code it. I don't know. I worked with Dan Ruby when he was converting his script for IDN last year. In the end we basically abandoned the whole thing as we got out gunned, even after upping the anti a couple of times.
Eventually Snap came in and the game was up. Fighting them is a bit like squaring up in the street, stubbing your cigar and throwing your pancho over your shoulder to reveal your pistols only to be lassoed from behind and dragged down the street. Basically it not about drops it about contractual tie ups with the registrars.

i think i registered all of my idns at Domainsite with the Afrikaans tag - i think thats the default.

The Tag is not recorded, but it is essential for the process.

All registered domains have no tag as far as I am aware, but you cannot register one without a valid tag.

[blastfromthepast]

ASCII domains are currently available. I am going to get everything IDN compatible and I will let everyone know when it is operational for IDNs.

From a technical point of view, IDNs are ascii domains so I don't see what your problem is.

[Rubber Duck]

From a technical point of view, IDNs are ascii domains so I don't see what your problem is.

His problem is that his script won't snag them because it is not putting in the language tag.

There is a technical difference between ASCII and IDN. The xn-- hack flags to the Registry that they are distinct. Only registrars that approved for IDN can sell IDN. Go to a non-approved registry and you should not be able to register them even as punycode.

[ThisDot]

Wrong, there is the little matter of setting up the drop registration software to input the Language Tag into the Registry, otherwise the whole thing goes belly up.

That is correct Duck, and if I am going to be registering domains for other users, I would prefer to enter the correct language tag and not just take the lazy way out. It should be implemented very shortly as there are just a few changes that need to be made to get this right and not interfere with the standard ascii domains that I am currently catching. I will post here when it is all setup and operational.

Thanks,
David

[jacksonm]

That is correct Duck, and if I am going to be registering domains for other users, I would prefer to enter the correct language tag and not just take the lazy way out. It should be implemented very shortly as there are just a few changes that need to be made to get this right and not interfere with the standard ascii domains that I am currently catching. I will post here when it is all setup and operational.

Thanks,
David

This is impossible. Japanese use chinese characters. Persian use arabic characters. On and on. There is no reliable way to detect the language a name belongs to.

.

[blastfromthepast]

This is impossible. Japanese use chinese characters. Persian use arabic characters. On and on. There is no reliable way to detect the language a name belongs to.

But it is not necessary to be so precise, as long as you get a valid tag to register with.

[Rubber Duck]

This is impossible. Japanese use chinese characters. Persian use arabic characters. On and on. There is no reliable way to detect the language a name belongs to.

.

It doesn't. All it does is check that the domain conforms to rules set for the selected language. Each language is limited to sets of Unicode characters. ICANN have the facility to make these more or less restrictive according to their needs. There is a test run at registration to see if the domain complies with the rules for that the requested language, if it passes the name is registered. The tag that was used to check conformance is not recorded.

But it is not necessary to be so precise, as long as you get a valid tag to register with.

That is correct. If you put Arabic in as Persian it would probably pass, but not necessarily the other way around.

I had problems with Azeri, so I registered them as Turkish which uses the same scripts.

[ThisDot]

This is impossible. Japanese use chinese characters. Persian use arabic characters. On and on. There is no reliable way to detect the language a name belongs to.

.

That is probably one very good reason that the language tag is required.

[alpha]

That is probably one very good reason that the language tag is required.

that is certainly why it was devised, but it was soon realised to be imperfect and redundant.

yes it is required, but it serves no purpose. It's a historical hangup

[mulligan]

As long as you can recognise which language it is when you load it up and apply the relevant tag then you should be good to go. I doubt you will need every language tag anyway as most IDNs people are looking for fall into a fairly small group of languages

[Rubber Duck]

that is certainly why it was devised, but it was soon realised to be imperfect and redundant.

yes it is required, but it serves no purpose. It's a historical hangup

Sorry but that is simply not true.

Language tags are used to detemine which mixtures of scripts are permitted and which are not. If you put in Russian, all Latin characters are automatically blocked. Cyrillics are blocked for all Latin Languages. At one time Latin was blocked for Japanese but that has been corrected at Verisign. I think there may still be an outstanding issue with Thai, where Latin was also blocked for no apparent reason.

[ThisDot]

that is certainly why it was devised, but it was soon realised to be imperfect and redundant.

yes it is required, but it serves no purpose. It's a historical hangup

It may be imperfect, but it is required. I could easily be wrong here, but I am under the impression that it is also something that can't be changed once it is entered, so if they do start using it in the future there could be some issues. Anyway, as I said, when registering names for others, I would prefer to do it correctly. You should see this as a good thing, not bad. In any case the lang. tag does need to be entered for IDNs and not for ASCII. I should have everything operational very shortly, so stay tuned here and I will let everyone know when it is ready.

Thanks,
David

[Rubber Duck]

It may be imperfect, but it is required. I could easily be wrong here, but I am under the impression that it is also something that can't be changed once it is entered, so if they do start using it in the future there could be some issues. Anyway, as I said, when registering names for others, I would prefer to do it correctly. You should see this as a good thing, not bad. In any case the lang. tag does need to be entered for IDNs and not for ASCII. I should have everything operational very shortly, so stay tuned here and I will let everyone know when it is ready.

Thanks,
David

It cannot be changed because it doesn't exist. It is like a ticket you surrender on entry. It is checked and binned.

[jose]

I'm currently operating a $15 backorder service. I don't offer IDNs at this point, but would like to gauge the interest level. Please let me know if you would be interested in this. Also let me know if you would like to backorder any non IDNs for $15 as this service is currently available.

Thanks,
David


David, can you disclose with which registrars do you have agreements with?

[ThisDot]

David, can you disclose with which registrars do you have agreements with?

I have relationships with several major registrars and am continuing to establish relationships with more registrars as time passes. I am only limiting it to ICANN accredited registrars or those where I am the reseller for an ICANN registrar. In addition all registrar partners must have reasonable pricing, free pushes/internal account changes, and english language control panel.

[jose]

I have relationships with several major registrars and am continuing to establish relationships with more registrars as time passes. I am only limiting it to ICANN accredited registrars or those where I am the reseller for an ICANN registrar. In addition all registrar partners must have reasonable pricing, free pushes/internal account changes, and english language control panel.


I was talking about "other kind" of agreements. You know about them don't you? :confused:

[Drewbert]

i think i registered all of my idns at Domainsite with the Afrikaans tag - i think thats the default.

Well, if that's the case, then domainsite's nameprep is configured wrong.

No surprise there.

[clipper]

I have relationships with several major registrars and am continuing to establish relationships with more registrars as time passes. I am only limiting it to ICANN accredited registrars or those where I am the reseller for an ICANN registrar. In addition all registrar partners must have reasonable pricing, free pushes/internal account changes, and english language control panel.

Please PM details, as I am interested in working with you. In particular, I would like to see a list of recent drop-catches you've made, as well as a list of registrars you work with.

Thanks.

[ThisDot]

IDN Backorders are now available!!!

Check this thread for details or PM me:

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/10700-risk-free-backorders-%2415-each-no-money-up-front-idns-available.html#post67949