new big IDN sale, Moscow.com in Russian 16.000$

[Muhammad Mustafa]

minutes ago while am reading dnjournal report I found in the 16th position an IDN sale through afternic.
Moscow.com in Russian
puny code: xn--80adxhks.com

I think its get better every day, this sale well "as before" help to increase the IDNs value.
share your thoughts guys :)

[xxbossmanxx]

Alot of my IDN's are russian .com so yay!

[Muhammad Mustafa]

Alot of my IDN's are russian .com so yay!

then the next sale over 10k will be yours ;)
* miss writing in the thread title BIG instead of BIF, what the meaning of bif :p

[xxbossmanxx]

then the next sale over 10k will be yours ;)
* miss writing in the thread title BIG instead of BIF, what the meaning of bif :p

Meh, tx M but most of my names are 2nd level, I used to own a bunch of stuff like moscow.com back in 2003 but now all I have is late 2006 scraps.

It's still exciting though because I do own quite a few decent ones that would prob. be worth 1-5k compared to that sale.

[Olney]

Thread name Changed...
OK who sold it? was it someone here?

[Wot]

Am I the only one who thinks that is WAY too cheap , particularly after Turkey at $10K?

[mulligan]

I believe the seller is Korean

[bwhhisc]

Am I the only one who thinks that is WAY too cheap , particularly after Turkey at $10K?

I also think it was sold very cheap for this point in time.

As it was registered in 2003 someones $35 investment went to $16,000- not too shabby.

And I imagine they did not "only" register moscow.com back then.

[blastfromthepast]

Same Korean domainer owns 中國.com

[Giant]

Same Korean domainer owns 中國.com

Probably not, [Moscow].com was owned by

byon myong sob

[Drewbert]

Well, whoever he is, he's probably just funded renewals on all his other IDN's for another year or more, which means he can sit back and wait for the market to mature.

[touchring]

Is this a record breaking sale?

Nonetheless, i think it was sold too cheap, considering how much tokyo and moscow.net were sold for. :)

[glow]

As I remember this korean seller wanted $250k for москва.com

[Olney]

Times got hard, perhaps...

As I remember this korean seller wanted $250k for москва.com

[touchring]

Times got hard, perhaps...


Well, they always say, buy on news (after IE7) and sell on rumor (before IE7).

So, now is the right time to buy. ;)

[Olney]

There's a lot members with great Russian portfolios this will just increase interest...

Still I wonder who bought it, & what will they do with it later.

[Giant]

Well, they always say, buy on news (after IE7) and sell on rumor (before IE7).

So, now is the right time to buy. ;)

You're right, now is time to buy.

In the last 7 years, this is the first time IDN has cleared all obstacles in its path:

1. The core technology --- Puny Code works perfectly well.
2. The need for IDN is undisputable.
3. IDN does not cause any security or instability problem to the Root.
4. No any real tech difficulty in implementing IDN (including IDN.IDN).
5. All governments have come to the same conclusion: IDN is here to stay and prosper....

[alpha]

... considering how much tokyo and moscow.net were sold for
How much did moscow.net sell for? If I remember correctly the terms were never publicised



Am I the only one who thinks that is WAY too cheap , particularly after Turkey at $10K?
No you're not alone. I was negotiating with this guy and we were at around that number at one point but I bailed, let's just say the guy was rather unique to deal with. [cue Michael] :)

[thefabfive]

How much did moscow.net sell for?
Is that a trick question?

[touchring]

How much did moscow.net sell for? If I remember correctly the terms were never publicised



Oops, correction: ... considering how much tokyo.net was sold for :)

Am I the only one who thinks that is WAY too cheap , particularly after Turkey at $10K?


Was it $10k? I saw it recorded on Idntools.

I remembered that Turkey.com was a steal, especially when .com is popular extension for turkish sites (the cctld is .com.tr). It's a no-brainer buy. The seller got scrwed big time. :(

[bramiozo]

Nice one.

Turkey.com in Turkish went for $6,600 :) .

[touchring]

Nice one.

Turkey.com in Turkish went for $6,600 :) .


:o Broaddaylight robbery!

[alpha]

Tell you what though folks..

It is good to see a big IDN .com sell not on this forum. I mean where the buyer and seller are not from here.. i was beginning to get the feeling we had created our own little self contained market where the only buyers and sellers are here - and we just keep selling to one another.

Although the price is *low* and it has no doubt temporarily devalued others in the process - a sale outside of here for this sum and being a .com is a vote of confidence in IDN from non-moonies.

This is good news IMO

[Olney]

The number of IDNs on Afternic double by the weekend?

[touchring]

Tell you what though folks..

It is good to see a big IDN .com sell not on this forum. I mean where the buyer and seller are not from here.. i was beginning to get the feeling we had created our own little self contained market where the only buyers and sellers are here - and we just keep selling to one another.

Although the price is *low* and it has no doubt temporarily devalued others in the process - a sale outside of here for this sum and being a .com is a vote of confidence in IDN from non-moonies.

This is good news IMO


There is currently a "risk" associated with idns if you notice just a while ago, a swedish ascii.se and idn.se were reported at the same time on DNjournal, and i find it ridiculous that the ascii cost many times the idn - when the ascii is a typo, and not the other way round.

So, if you are smart, and you got an extra house in US or even the UK that you don't need, you sell your house, and go around offering a fraction of price of ascii equivalent for all the best idns around.

4-5 years later, the money you invest can buy at least 8 houses - Why?

Inflation and high interest rates would have slashed the value of houses in the Western world by half (Europe will come later than US, but it will still happen - interest rates goes up, house price comes down, it might not happen in a straightline, but it will happen eventually), and the IDNs you invested have at least quadripled.

Is this an exaggeration? Erm no?


Meanwhile, here's an interesting roller coastal ride video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUldGc06S3U - take note of the last part of the video. :)

[Rubber Duck]

I believe the seller is Korean

The original owner was indeed Korean.

I think he must have a good Korean Portfolio and probably justs wants a bit of cash to develop.

Am I the only one who thinks that is WAY too cheap , particularly after Turkey at $10K?

Yes, by a factor of ten at least!

The number of IDNs on Afternic double by the weekend?

I wonder if Sedo have figured out yet how they lost out on this sale!

[Giant]

It is good to see a big IDN .com sell not on this forum. I mean where the buyer and seller are not from here.. i was beginning to get the feeling we had created our own little self contained market where the only buyers and sellers are here - and we just keep selling to one another.


I don't think IDN sales have only happened on this forum. I have sold to non-members and end users more than I sold on this forum since 2005.

[Rubber Duck]

I don't think IDN sales have only happened on this forum. I have sold to non-members and end users more than I sold on this forum since 2005.

Absolutely right, Western forums such as IDNFs will rapidly become a side show in terms of the overall market, even if they do assists outsiders to understand what is happening.

It is a terrible shame that more has not been achieved in building forums which reach out to local markets. There is no doubt that those who rely entirely on Western oriented forums are going to seem increasingly isolated from the real action, but whilst people consider the crowd at TRAFFICS to be the be and end of all the domaining world, then this problem will persists.

What is actually happening, is that TRAFFICS is becoming increasingly focused on a single economy, which although still by far the largest in conventional measurements is approaching a period of massive relative decline. This reality is being masked by the ineffective ways in which Western Economists actually evaluate the problem.

In my view the Yuan is undervalued by as much as a factor of anything between 2 and 5 times its current rating. It is also likely that in many way the US dollar is rated at least double what it is really worth in terms of currencies such as the Euro, Yen and Rouble. These discrepancies will unravel over the next couple of years. American military might will be undermined by the fact that much of their equipment will be mothballed because is too expensive to maintain, and it will be left to rust in much the same way as the pride of the Soviet Fleet.

In "The Day after Tomorrow", the US evacuated half its population to Mexico. The reality is that they could not evacuate New Orleans or clear up properly after the hurricane. The US's own perception of itself has been created by Hollywood and is consequently largely a myth. It is I am afraid time to wake up and smell the coffee.

[alpha]

I don't think IDN sales have only happened on this forum. I have sold to non-members and end users more than I sold on this forum since 2005.

I meant the very public sales reported on DNJ.

[Rubber Duck]

I meant the very public sales reported on DNJ.

I think neither buyer or seller would have made any effort to publicise this sale. I think it has only been reported because Afternic have taken the trouble to do so.

Although Afternic is not really a major force in the aftermarket it is still the only established venue that seems to be competant to sell domains of this nature.

Things should start moving forward when Sedo actually move away from the position of promoting IDN as spoofing Typos and Moniker realises that it not ecumbent on their sellers to find their own buyers.

[Muhammad Mustafa]

Although Afternic is not really a major force in the aftermarket it is still the only established venue that seems to be competant to sell domains of this nature.

Things should start moving forward when Sedo actually move away from the position of promoting IDN as spoofing Typos and Moniker realises that it not ecumbent on their sellers to find their own buyers.

if am not wrong and understood this point well, I think Sedo too accept IDNs for sale.
NOT supporting all languages yet (arabic for example) but supporting some.
hope I get your mean, and sure if Sedo supports all IDNs it will be greater and Greater for IDNers


* although some people saw the price too low but its some kind pretty to the trade itself .. when we saw such IDNs breaks 10k is better than see 95% of sales lower than 1k.
this means the market goes over and over every day for IDNs, just an opinion

[Rubber Duck]

if am not wrong and understood this point well, I think Sedo too accept IDNs for sale.
NOT supporting all languages yet (arabic for example) but supporting some.
hope I get your mean, and sure if Sedo supports all IDNs it will be greater and Greater for IDNers


* although some people saw the price too low but its some kind pretty to the trade itself .. when we saw such IDNs breaks 10k is better than see 95% of sales lower than 1k.
this means the market goes over and over every day for IDNs, just an opinion

Yes, SEDO does support IDN as long as they are predominantly in ASCII characters.

SEDO have totally missed the main point of IDN, and the small concession they have made to IDN has done little more than make a mockery of the whole project.

The final laugh, however, will very much be ours and it will be be very much at their expense. The launch of DNLocal Elite Auction will only serve to add injury to insult.

[ctc]

Tell you what though folks..

It is good to see a big IDN .com sell not on this forum. I mean where the buyer and seller are not from here.. i was beginning to get the feeling we had created our own little self contained market where the only buyers and sellers are here - and we just keep selling to one another.

Although the price is *low* and it has no doubt temporarily devalued others in the process - a sale outside of here for this sum and being a .com is a vote of confidence in IDN from non-moonies.

This is good news IMO

My thoughts exactly :)

SEDO have totally missed the main point of IDN, and the small concession they have made to IDN has done little more than make a mockery of the whole project.


Yes..they are completly inthe dark when it comes to IDNs... all they are doing is helping the phishes get their 2cents

[filmlion]

I am also glad for this news since all IDNs i have are Russian. :) Since I made a couple of good sales recently and covered all my expenses for the next year or two for my portfolio, I am relaxed now and waiting for the IDN market to improve. Meanwhile I am planning to develop one of my Russian IDNs and promote it in the Russian Internet space but I haven't chosen the project yet. :) Again, great news.

[Rubber Duck]

I am also glad for this news since all IDNs i have are Russian. :) Since I made a couple of good sales recently and covered all my expenses for the next year or two for my portfolio, I am relaxed now and waiting for the IDN market to improve. Meanwhile I am planning to develop one of my Russian IDNs and promote it in the Russian Internet space but I haven't chosen the project yet. :) Again, great news.

Well congratulations. We went cashflow negative for several years. I think if you look at the history of ASCII most of the big winners there went cashflow negative for extended periods of time, and negative bigtime. I guess there is nothing wrong with buying and flipping, in fact it may be the only solution. However, just as it sensible to not to be over amibitions, I think you need to be sure your not being underly ambitious, either.

Am I the only one who thinks that is WAY too cheap , particularly after Turkey at $10K?

The real irony here is the one above it sold by Sedo, Actualite.com is a bloody Typo, but why was that so cheap. If that was the top term for NEWS it should have gone for an awful lot more than than. Perhaps Actualité.com would have fetched more!

[blastfromthepast]

Meh, tx M but most of my names are 2nd level, I used to own a bunch of stuff like moscow.com back in 2003 but now all I have is late 2006 scraps.

We've heard that sob story quite a few times too many. Its time to get over it, wipe the last tear up, and move on. As others that dropped names have wisely done.

[burnsinternet]

I am also glad for this news since all IDNs i have are Russian. :) Since I made a couple of good sales recently and covered all my expenses for the next year or two for my portfolio, I am relaxed now and waiting for the IDN market to improve. Meanwhile I am planning to develop one of my Russian IDNs and promote it in the Russian Internet space but I haven't chosen the project yet. :) Again, great news.

How do you get it indexed on Yandex?

[blastfromthepast]

How do you get it indexed on Yandex?

You pay them. The add site to Yandex page gives you a few options. They do take credit cards.

Otherwise, you risk arbitrary deletion and banning from their indexing, until you pay up.

[filmlion]

Well congratulations. We went cashflow negative for several years. I think if you look at the history of ASCII most of the big winners there went cashflow negative for extended periods of time, and negative bigtime. I guess there is nothing wrong with buying and flipping, in fact it may be the only solution. However, just as it sensible to not to be over amibitions, I think you need to be sure your not being underly ambitious, either.

Thanks, RD (it also stands for Russian Domains :) I guess, my personal solution for that so far is that i don't want to be a big winner (or have big risks) but just a winner. :) and also just in case i keep a list of second-to-premium names when the boom starts to make sure i will get into that train no matter what. I am talking about idn.idn, which i think would be a real winner if there won't be any national aliases for .com names.

[filmlion]

How do you get it indexed on Yandex?

there are several ways for that. :) long story short: be creative. basically, it's simple and free. yandex is much less powerful SE than google, so that's why it has both advantages and disadvantages, some little tricks can help to be indexed fast, but for the same reason, sometimes you do everything what's needed, and it just doesn't go through... some of my friends got this problem with their russian .com domains but others got russian .coms indexed in less than a month. if you need to get indexed fast, pm me and i'll give you a couple of hints. :)

[bwhhisc]

Inflation and high interest rates would have slashed the value of houses in the Western world by half (Europe will come later than US, but it will still happen - interest rates goes up, house price comes down, it might not happen in a straightline, but it will happen eventually), and the IDNs you invested have at least quadripled. Is this an exaggeration? Erm no?

Where do you get these theories?
And how about a link to a credible source for this information?
Or...put in a disclaimer that this is your personal analysis.

[blastfromthepast]

Real estate. Value is down 5%. Rent is up 25%.

IDNs. Value is growing. PPC is still low.

[thegenius1]

Real estate. Value is down 5%. Rent is up 25%.

IDNs. Value is growing. PPC is still low.

What do you consider low ppc ? We have been avg approx 20 cents per click

[touchring]

Where do you get these theories?
And how about a link to a credible source for this information?
Or...put in a disclaimer that this is your personal analysis.


Yes, a personal analysis conclusion drawn from countless news reports i read the past few months, and also from what i saw during and the aftermath of the Asian financial crisis - the result of real estate speculation and uncurtailed mortgage and bank lending.

When real asset price falls, and interest rates go up, people can't refinance, and with receding valuation, up to some point, finance companies will may even ask for loan redemption - i mean, someone must pay for the shortfall? Real estate cycles have always been up and then down, flat out, and then up again for as long as people traded houses.

Another point is, even with the best opportunities that can be found in IDNs today, reckless and blind investing will never work. Make sure you know what you are buying, have holding power to sit out, and don't over pay. :)

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, a personal analysis conclusion drawn from countless news reports i read the past few months, and also from what i saw during and the aftermath of the Asian financial crisis - the result of real estate speculation and uncurtailed mortgage and bank lending.

When real asset price falls, and interest rates go up, people can't refinance, and with receding valuation, up to some point, finance companies will may even ask for loan redemption - i mean, someone must pay for the shortfall? Real estate cycles have always been up and then down, flat out, and then up again for as long as people traded houses.

Another point is, even with the best opportunities that can be found in IDNs today, reckless and blind investing will never work. Make sure you know what you are buying, have holding power to sit out, and don't over pay. :)

I think it is clear that there is a problem in the Real Estate market in the US, but it is far too early to tell, how serious it might be. There may be similar problems elsewhere, particularly in the UK, but here it is much more difficult to call as there is a huge shortage of property around London and migrant workers have greatly increased the demand for rental property. The situation, however, remains very fragile in my view.

I don't believe that the situtation in the Euro zone is anything like critical at the moment.

[touchring]

I think it is clear that there is a problem in the Real Estate market in the US, but it is far too early to tell, how serious it might be. There may be similar problems elsewhere, particularly in the UK, but here it is much more difficult to call as there is a huge shortage of property around London and migrant workers have greatly increased the demand for rental property. The situation, however, remains very fragile in my view.

I don't believe that the situtation in the Euro zone is anything like critical at the moment.


Selling a home for a good price might take a year or more. One can't wait till it's the peak to decide to sell.

[Rubber Duck]

Selling a home for a good price might take a year or more. One can't wait till it's the peak to decide to sell.

Not in the Western World they don't normally. Six weeks is more typical.

Long delays in selling houses normally only comes after a crash, when sellers are not prepared to accept the new reality of the markets or simply are in a Catch 22 situation, as selling would leave them with outstanding debt to pay off, which is a situation some lenders prevent from happening anyway, as the terms of the loan often prevent you selling for less than the outstanding loan.

[bwhhisc]

Yes, a personal analysis conclusion drawn from countless news reports i read the past few months, and also from what i saw during and the aftermath of the Asian financial crisis - the result of real estate speculation and uncurtailed mortgage and bank lending.

When real asset price falls, and interest rates go up, people can't refinance, and with receding valuation, up to some point, finance companies will may even ask for loan redemption - i mean, someone must pay for the shortfall? Real estate cycles have always been up and then down, flat out, and then up again for as long as people traded houses.

Another point is, even with the best opportunities that can be found in IDNs today, reckless and blind investing will never work. Make sure you know what you are buying, have holding power to sit out, and don't over pay. :)

You have stated here that housing prices in the USA will fall by 50% in the future.
And this is your personal analysis. Thanks for clearing that part up.

[burnsinternet]

US home prices rise and fall by market, not as a monolithic standard rate. Our united states are more like independent countries in that respect. Prices drop in some places, stabilize in others, and rise in other markets. My house, for example, just appraised at 20% over last year (the amount rose 20%).

[tee1]

US home prices rise and fall by market, not as a monolithic standard rate. Our united states are more like independent countries in that respect. Prices drop in some places, stabilize in others, and rise in other markets. My house, for example, just appraised at 20% over last year (the amount rose 20%).

Same here as Burns on appreciation. I am not sure we could afford to buy our house today or one in our subdivision, the prices have gone out of site, we bought our house 2.5 year ago. Alot can attributed to growth in the area, it is booming (also no state income tax) and on a micro level a new elementary school is opening in the fall within a few blocks, its amazing what drives housing prices.

On a sad note, I have heard of a few foreclosures, I think the zero down option and interest only loans are catching people.

on a point related to the thread maybe it will help me with москва.TK & москва.cc :)


tee1

[burnsinternet]

It was actually bad news. I am not planning to sell. It only means more taxes. When I bought, one bedroom and bathroom were unfinished (but permitted). Now that they are finished, I am afraid of what the appraisal will be if the County ever finds out!

[tee1]

I am with you on the property tax issue, we will probably be re-assessed again in a year or so. At least we don't have to pay a state income tax, but the other taxes bite.

tee1

[xxbossmanxx]

We've heard that sob story quite a few times too many. Its time to get over it, wipe the last tear up, and move on. As others that dropped names have wisely done.

Blast, Stop wasting your time, why do you feel you have to butt ur fat head into everything. He said I must have some killer stuff so I explained I dont. There was no crying there. did I say wah wah Im crying? No.

You are a menace to every god damn thread which makes you a waste of time.

Look at the chain of posts #1-4 it makes perfect sense. I respond to what a guy says. Then 48 posts later you have to bring this bs up. This is non productive. Any member here can review them and clearly see I am not crying about anything. If there is anything we have heard one too many times is your mouth.

[blastfromthepast]

There was no crying there. did I say wah wah Im crying? No.

Well, you said you used to own names like Moscow.com. Since it was registered in 2003, it must have dropped back then, because thats a name someone would have since day 1.

As for the nostaligic information, I've just counted 8 different threads where you've brought this up. Ever notice how when you like, hear someone repeat a story about their life over and over again it gets really annoying about the 3rd time you hear it told?

[Rubber Duck]

US home prices rise and fall by market, not as a monolithic standard rate. Our united states are more like independent countries in that respect. Prices drop in some places, stabilize in others, and rise in other markets. My house, for example, just appraised at 20% over last year (the amount rose 20%).

This is very true and utter nonsense at the same time.

In the UK the property market in London is totally different than other parts of the country. That is because the economy is very different. London is the World Financial and Trade Centre probably to a greater extent now than it is has have been. The rest of the country relies on supply London but has to compete with Eastern Europe and the Far East and elsewhere. Consequently property prices in London are at least double most regions most of the time. When property prices boom the start in London and the effect ripples out getting weaker the further you are away, and the crash comes it happens there first as well.

We are, however, one country, we have the same currency, interest rates and government spending. When the credit crunch comes everyone is affected and the weakest probably more than most.

The situation in the US will reflect this experience. Some areas will be more affluent with higher prices and more subject to speculative booms, other will always follow. You do all have one currency, and one federal government. Your fortunes are therefore inextricably linked together. Don't forget the great depression was triggered by the burst of a real estate bubble in Florida, and that was a global phenomenon.

[touchring]

This is very true and utter nonsense at the same time.

In the UK the property market in London is totally different than other parts of the country. That is because the economy is very different. London is the World Financial and Trade Centre probably to a greater extent now than it is has have been. The rest of the country relies on supply London but has to compete with Eastern Europe and the Far East and elsewhere. Consequently property prices in London are at least double most regions most of the time. When property prices boom the start in London and the effect ripples out getting weaker the further you are away, and the crash comes it happens there first as well.

We are, however, one country, we have the same currency, interest rates and government spending. When the credit crunch comes everyone is affected and the weakest probably more than most.

The situation in the US will reflect this experience. Some areas will be more affluent with higher prices and more subject to speculative booms, other will always follow. You do all have one currency, and one federal government. Your fortunes are therefore inextricably linked together. Don't forget the great depression was triggered by the burst of a real estate bubble in Florida, and that was a global phenomenon.


There's a big credit bubble going on, some cities took off first, some slower, some faster. Speculative money is fleeing Florida and California into previous laggards, and maybe the UK because of the rising pound.

But if there were to be a financial shock of some kind, e.g. sudden US devalue by 15% - say caused by central banks dumping the US treasury/reserves, and the Feds must raise interest rates to 10% like what the British back then to support the dollar, and overnight all will standstill. The yen carry trade of one trillion will also unwind at rapid speed, leading to further shocks.

Just before the Baht sudden devaluation that triggered the asian financial crisis, everything seemed impossibly good - new apartments everywhere in Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur, new factories being built - America was busily importing, lots of people found jobs in factories, poverty was reducing - all seemed too good and an economic set back looked impossible.

Few suspected what is to come - unlike the current dollar and US real estate woes, a lot of people were caught completely unaware! :)

Bottomline - when it collapses, it really collapses. Now, we're only trying to hope that it won't collapse, but go into "soft-landing". And Iran is betting that the US is too concerned about ensuring a soft landing to do anything about it's nuclear weapons program. Smarty Persians. ;)

[Rubber Duck]

You are having a laugh! The British has 15% interest rates for more than 12 months as recently as 1992.

The US problem is the dollar is currently the World's main reserve currency. To some extent it for a long time it has been the World's only reserve currency. That priveledged situation is now coming to an end. If the dollar was judge merely on the financial performance of the US economy rather than just on its shear size then a 15% devaluation might be fairly modest. And of course much of the shear size thing is grossly over-exaggerated due to the exchange rate.

It won't belong before the US economy is not much bigger than the EU or China or Russia or eventually India or Brazil either. It is just going to have to find its place in the World like everyone else. It is also going to have to get a lot less dependent on Oil Imports and jobs created by the Federal Government through defence spending. To be a World Class Military power, you have to have a World Class Economy independent of the defence sector to finance it all. If you could simply underpin an economy with a defence sector then the Soviet Union will still be thriving.

It will be interesting to see what happens when much of the World starts pegging their currency to Yuan!

No joke year now? :(




There's a big credit bubble going on, some cities took off first, some slower, some faster. Speculative money is fleeing Florida and California into previous laggards, and maybe the UK because of the rising pound.

But if there were to be a financial shock of some kind, e.g. sudden US devalue by 15% - say caused by central banks dumping the US treasury/reserves, and the Feds must raise interest rates to 10% like what the British back then to support the dollar, and overnight all will standstill.

Basically, what everyone is waiting for is the big one. Will it happen? God knows. :)

[alpha]

you make it sound like everyone loses out with high interest rates.

not always the case.

I got a London property for example on a great long term fixed rate interest.

When the rates goes up it doesnt affect me, but it does mean that new entrants to the property market can't get a mortgage, so they rent instead - and the rental property market heats up. This is exactly what has happened in London.

Those landlords that have to adjust their rental rates to compensate for the higher mortgage payments will find that the competition is greater in the rental market - those that don't have to adjust their rates, either they do increase and reap the extra income, or keep low so they can beat of the competition.

as with everything in live, there are winners and losers. It just depends which side you are on.

[Rubber Duck]

Of course there are huge winners and losers, but if your one of them it is very marginal.

The big winners are the Banks. It is a common misconception that they only lend out the same amount of money as they borrow. They don't. They actually lend out up to ten times that amount.

So when Interest Rates their profits go through the roof. Of course they go to very great lengths to disguise that fact, so they take the opportunity to clear bad debts off the books that have probably been kicking around forever. Some of them probably aren't bad debts at all.

What happens to the economy, well of course huge amounts are being sucked out. We are all kidded into the fact that pensioners nest egg income will compensate for the money being taken in higher interest rates. The reality is that it doesn't even come close.

Totally ignoring the affordability aspect of things, liquidity in the economy dries up and just about everyone is very much poorer. If you want to be a winner. Get some Bank shares. And of course the cherry on the cake is that acquire a whole load of real estate assets from defaulters for the square root of bugger all.

[touchring]

It will be interesting to see what happens when much of the World starts pegging their currency to Yuan!


I know there are quite a few people who would think that the Yuan might be the upcoming currency. However bullish i am on China, i still can't see how such a restricted currency can be one. Of cos, you never know what's up in the sleaves of the chinese monetary officials.

The economic dominance of China is inevitable in the long term. The British in the 19th Century only managed to maintain a balanced trade through the use of opium and naval force, but possible only because China then was controlled by Mongols/Manchu rulers that are only good at riding horses and archery and knew nothing about business.

[Rubber Duck]

I know there are quite a few people who would think that the Yuan might be the upcoming currency. However bullish i am on China, i still can't see how such a restricted currency can be one. Of cos, you never know what's up in the sleaves of the chinese monetary officials.

The economic dominance of China is inevitable in the long term. The British in the 19th Century only managed to maintain a balanced trade through the use of opium and naval force, but possible only because China then was controlled by Mongols/Manchu rulers that are only good at riding horses and archery and knew nothing about business.

I don't think that economically the British ever actually exceeded the size of the Chinese Economy before the Americans took over as the World's number one.

Ok, for a 100 years or so America has been the largest economy, for nearly 2000 years before that it was unquestionably China. I am not sure that either the Romans or the Egyptians were actually bigger, so it could have been a lot longer than that!

The loss of World economic leadership has only ever been a temporary factor due to rapid technological change and restrictive ideology. The only thing that would prevent China becoming dominant would be disintegration, and even then the sum of the parts is still going to worth an awful lot and frankly, I don't really believe that it is in the Chines psyche to split.

[touchring]

I don't think that economically the British ever actually exceeded the size of the Chinese Economy before the Americans took over as the World's number one.

Ok, for a 100 years or so America has been the largest economy, for nearly 2000 years before that it was unquestionably China. I am not sure that either the Romans or the Egyptians were actually bigger, so it could have been a lot longer than that!

The loss of World economic leadership has only ever been a temporary factor due to rapid technological change and restrictive ideology. The only thing that would prevent China becoming dominant would be disintegration, and even then the sum of the parts is still going to worth an awful lot and frankly, I don't really believe that it is in the Chines psyche to split.


Well, the British exported Opium to balance the trade deficit from imports of Tea, Silk and chinaware whereas now the Americans are printing money on a runway train manner to finance its debt with the rest of the world.

It doesn't take a genius to know that this can't last forever and sooner or later, people will start to lose confidence and dump the dollar like toilet paper - which i think is what the American government wants - to devalue the debt it owns so it doesn't have to pay back.

But at what cost? The cost of American economic dominance and credibility. And if you think inflation is high now, think about the hyperinflation that comes when dollar becomes toilet paper.

The economic transformation which you have talked about last year is starting to unravel before our eyes!





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