IDN Disaster!!

[drbiohealth]

Can IDNs fail?

What might go wrong on the policy/implementation/usage front that would make our IDNs totally useless? And, with how much chance? I was just trying to think from a contrarian angle. Though I could not think of any such think, let's see what you guys say?

Cheers!
Raj

[Giant]

Don't worry! IDN is doing fine. From all the news I got, IDN is moving forward smoothly.

[IDNCowboy]

My IDNs are doing fine....

It's hard for japanese /chinese to register a name without looking up the correct translation.

They should be able to find domains in their native language.

[thegenius1]

Geez edit the title, you almost gave me a heart attack,,, LOL From what im reading everything is a go, and on the other side, this seems to be a No Brainer :)

[touchring]

I'm still not discounting an IE7 screw-up. It is better for the beta to be as long as possible so as to iron out more issues like the conflict with verisign plugin that trashes IDN support.

Anyone has the contact to the microsoft developer for the plugin? It will be good if he can be introduced to this forum.

[IDNCowboy]

Geez edit the title, you almost gave me a heart attack,,, LOL From what im reading everything is a go, and on the other side, this seems to be a No Brainer :)
There are a few disasters going on right now


.tv - Will it be a hit or not? I have alot invested in .tv . Many domainers said it would hit and i see them advertised on tv now but its being typed in by the masses yet.

.in/.co.in - ascii names - some ppl have claimed to sell over $100k in them. I also have invested in .in/.co.in


.eu ?? ... I have invested nothing in this.....

[drbiohealth]

Perhaps it would be worthwhile not investing in them.

There are a few disasters going on right now

.eu ?? ... I have invested nothing in this.....

[drbiohealth]

I totally agree with you that Microsoft should not release the final version untill most known problems have been ironed out. Ofcourse, it would a good idea to contact the person in charge of IDNs there.

I'm still not discounting an IE7 screw-up. It is better for the beta to be as long as possible so as to iron out more issues like the conflict with verisign plugin that trashes IDN support.

Anyone has the contact to the microsoft developer for the plugin? It will be good if he can be introduced to this forum.

[thegenius1]

There are a few disasters going on right now


.tv - Will it be a hit or not? I have alot invested in .tv . Many domainers said it would hit and i see them advertised on tv now but its being typed in by the masses yet.

.in/.co.in - ascii names - some ppl have claimed to sell over $100k in them. I also have invested in .in/.co.in


.eu ?? ... I have invested nothing in this.....


I vote .tv will be a hit, just isnt ripe enough yet.... It will be more so when Tvoip hits the mainstreem, and you can see we are just seing Voip.... But those others where kinda " Fency " but this is a Absolute No brainer IMHO, Unless something political gets in the way, i see us Scoring BigTime, Its like 1990 all over again in Different Languages.... But With the upside of The Internet as we Know it Already Being Paved, and not only that We are Aquiring these names @ 6.99.... Back in the Days they didnt know what the Upside was gonna be, and they had to shell out a Small Fortune to Reg the Names.... I fully agree when they say this may be the Last Gold Rush to hit the Net ..... I Rather loose Several thousand Dollars getting on the boat, Than missing out on the Potential of Small PowerBall Jackpot payouts, or long Term Residuals of good Quality developed Generics...

[IDNCowboy]

I vote .tv will be a hit, just isnt ripe enough yet.... It will be more so when Tvoip hits the mainstreem, and you can see we are just seing Voip.... But those others where kinda " Fency " but this is a Absolute No brainer IMHO, Unless something political gets in the way, i see us Scoring BigTime, Its like 1990 all over again in Different Languages.... But With the upside of The Internet as we Know it Already Being Paved, and not only that We are Aquiring these names @ 6.99.... Back in the Days they didnt know what the Upside was gonna be, and they had to shell out a Small Fortune to Reg the Names.... I fully agree when they say this may be the Last Gold Rush to hit the Net ..... I Rather loose Several thousand Dollars getting on the boat, Than missing out on the Potential of Small PowerBall Jackpot payouts, or long Term Residuals of good Quality developed Generics...
I'm buying alot of .jp and .com's

I have a ton of .co.in /.in / .tv etc so thats where i spent my thousands and thats why my budget is now slacking for IDNs :P

oh well :(

[Rubber Duck]

I vote .tv will be a hit, just isnt ripe enough yet.... It will be more so when Tvoip hits the mainstreem, and you can see we are just seing Voip.... But those others where kinda " Fency " but this is a Absolute No brainer IMHO, Unless something political gets in the way, i see us Scoring BigTime, Its like 1990 all over again in Different Languages.... But With the upside of The Internet as we Know it Already Being Paved, and not only that We are Aquiring these names @ 6.99.... Back in the Days they didnt know what the Upside was gonna be, and they had to shell out a Small Fortune to Reg the Names.... I fully agree when they say this may be the Last Gold Rush to hit the Net ..... I Rather loose Several thousand Dollars getting on the boat, Than missing out on the Potential of Small PowerBall Jackpot payouts, or long Term Residuals of good Quality developed Generics...

Well from where I am sitting it is starting to look like a Lottery Jackpot Rollover, put on an 7 horse accumulator. It would seem that my last is horse is just about to negociate the last fence, and it is a long way ahead of the field.

[touchring]

I've offloaded two thirds of my latin.com over the past 3 mths to raise money for idns.

The logic is simple, i do not expect my .com to increase in value more than two or three times over the medium term even in the most bullish market situation, while the IDNs i buy from existing holders can appreciate 20-100 times.

Let's go back to the article that announced the 150k purchase (highest of it's time) for business.com - http://news.com.com/2100-1023-200256.html. Well, from this article, we know that CNET paid $15,000 for tv.com in 1996, and the owner of 'television.com' got mocked at by his friends when he rejected the 50K offer. I think that guy who sold tv.com would cry if he knows that his domain is worth a couple million today at the minimum, and possibly tens of millions in the future when tvoip takes off.

With companies rushing to buy up pieces of virtual real estate, the market for Internet domain names has become as wildly unpredictable as the art market in the 1980s. Domain names based on ordinary, easy-to-remember words, such as "tv.com" and "internet.com," fetch astronomical sums considering their original owners paid nothing or next to nothing to register them.

For example: Last year, the publishers of this site, CNET: The Computer Network, paid $15,000 for "tv.com." Before buying that address, however, CNET tentatively offered Mike O'Connor, cofounder of Internet access company Gofast.net, $50,000 for a similar domain name, "television.com."

O'Connor rejected the offer, thinking he could get more for the address. But new buyers never materialized. "I'm the dumbest guy on the planet for turning down that deal," he said. "That's why friends pour beer over my head and call me a nitwit."

What compels someone to buy a domain name for the cost of a decent one-bedroom condominium in San Francisco?

[drbiohealth]

Dave,

You must be the largest IDN porfolio holder around, I guess. Edwin must be second. Haven't heard of any other guy with that size! Raj

Nice logic!

I've offloaded two thirds of my .com over the past 3 mths to raise money for idns.

The logic is simple, i do not expect my .com to increase in value more than two or three times over the medium term even in the most bullish market situation, while the IDNs i buy from existing holders can appreciate 20-100 times.

[Rubber Duck]

Dave,

You must be the largest IDN porfolio holder around, I guess. Edwin must be second. Haven't heard of any other guy with that size! Raj

Nice logic!

I think you'll find there are much bigger than me, but perhaps not as diversely spread.

Edwin has a nice portfolio, but I don't know whether he ranks that highly in terms of numbers or value even on here. I think you'll find that there are a few dark horses out there. There a members on here that virtually never post but email me on a regular basis. I also now that they are serious from past purchases that they have made.

I've offloaded two thirds of my latin.com over the past 3 mths to raise money for idns.

The logic is simple, i do not expect my .com to increase in value more than two or three times over the medium term even in the most bullish market situation, while the IDNs i buy from existing holders can appreciate 20-100 times.

Let's go back to the article that announced the 150k purchase (highest of it's time) for business.com - http://news.com.com/2100-1023-200256.html. Well, from this article, we know that CNET paid $15,000 for tv.com in 1996, and the owner of 'television.com' got mocked at by his friends when he rejected the 50K offer. I think that guy who sold tv.com would cry if he knows that his domain is worth a couple million today at the minimum, and possibly tens of millions in the future when tvoip takes off.

I would think that 20-100 times would be reasonable for those that are buying in the secondary market. I am expecting some of mine to add 5 or 6 maybe even 7 Zeros!

[touchring]

Yes, more pre-boom sale prices:

http://www.igoldrush.com/feat2.htm

CNET bought these names for:

SEARCH.COM for $7,000
DOWNLOAD.COM for $20,000
TV.COM for $15,000

OTOH, CNET could have registered 500 $70 names instead of buying those using the same amount of money.


Dave,

You must be the largest IDN porfolio holder around, I guess. Edwin must be second. Haven't heard of any other guy with that size! Raj

Nice logic!

[thegenius1]

I think you'll find there are much bigger than me, but perhaps not as diversely spread.

.

Hey dave when you get that Nice PowerBall payout can you adopt me ? lol im dead serious lol..... im laughing but im serious... After doing alot of searching you will find there are some other big dogs out there, but its great to be in the presence of one so you know this guys is a visionary

[Olney]

Just imagine when the market opens wide & we think of all the negative comments of "WHY" these domains are just worth reg fee....
Alot of you guys missed all that.

[Rubber Duck]

Just imagine when the market opens wide & we think of all the negative comments of "WHY" these domains are just worth reg fee....
Alot of you guys missed all that.

The difference between a Genius and a Fool, is the ability to change ones opinion when confronted with a logical argument.

The fools only try to emulate models of proven success. They are like sheep. When I am too senile to make any sense any more, they will seek my opinion, simply because in financial terms I will have a proven track record.

Olney you are a genius, but it was some argument we had back then, huh!

[thegenius1]

The difference between a Genius and a Fool, is the ability to change ones opinion when confronted with a logical argument.

!


I like this quote " Some People Just L@@k for the EXCEPTION in things that are EXCEPTIONAL " that is a very sad thing, But somebody in life gotta win :)

[touchring]

I like this quote " Some People Just L@@k for the EXCEPTION in things that are EXCEPTIONAL " that is a very sad thing, But somebody in life gotta win :)

Sorry, can't catch your meaning.

[drbiohealth]

That's so true, Dave!


The difference between a Genius and a Fool, is the ability to change ones opinion when confronted with a logical argument.

The fools only try to emulate models of proven success. They are like sheep. When I am too senile to make any sense any more, they will seek my opinion, simply because in financial terms I will have a proven track record.

Olney you are a genius, but it was some argument we had back then, huh!

[thegenius1]

I like this quote " Some People Just L@@k for the EXCEPTION in things that are EXCEPTIONAL " that is a very sad thing, But somebody in life gotta win :)

Sorry, can't catch your meaning.


Meaning that when things are " Exceptional " people would rather Look for the Exception... Meaning that they over look what is good to Have a " But " or something negative to say. ig: we all agree that IDNS are Phenomenol, Exceptional ect.... But the naysayers rather look for the Exception, than to acknowlegde that we are onto something very Major and be apart of somthing that is Beyond Exceptional !! to sum it all up Some People Rather Be Right than Rich




I would think that 20-100 times would be reasonable for those that are buying in the secondary market. I am expecting some of mine to add 5 or 6 maybe even 7 Zeros!


I think the if you own sex.com in Japanese and sex.com in English is Fetching 14 million dollars, Being that the standard is already set i see absoluty no reason to sell for under 30-50% of that unless you are funding other purchases... I think somewhere we have to make idn's in some sense have some sort of standard against Ascii

[Rubber Duck]

I think the if you own sex.com in Japanese and sex.com in English is Fetching 14 million dollars, Being that the standard is already set i see absoluty no reason to sell for under 30-50% of that unless you are funding other purchases... I think somewhere we have to make idn's in some sense have some sort of standard against Ascii


Yes, there has to be a correlation assuming that you can find terms of exact equivalence which will often not be the case. Span of meaning varies in languages. Even in ASCII the span varies as some terms are just English wheras others are internationally accepted.

The correlation has to be based on the commerical return that can be made from a domain, which will primarily be a factor of relative economic clouts of the target markets. Chinese terms though are inherently worth more than English terms becauese of the structure of the written language. A lack of tenses, cases and plurals makes a big difference.

The other thing from the economic perspective is that you cannot just measure economies in static way in dollar terms. Percentages of disposable income are important, the dollar exchange rate greatly flatters the American postion and future trends are important. Furthermore, marketing to an rapidly expanding economy is likely to allow a much greater level of penetration, so you get much more bang for your buck!

[hanidn]

The difference between a Genius and a Fool, is the ability to change ones opinion when confronted with a logical argument.



wise words for the good life....

[IDNCowboy]

Meaning that when things are " Exceptional " people would rather Look for the Exception... Meaning that they over look what is good to Have a " But " or something negative to say. ig: we all agree that IDNS are Phenomenol, Exceptional ect.... But the naysayers rather look for the Exception, than to acknowlegde that we are onto something very Major and be apart of somthing that is Beyond Exceptional !! to sum it all up Some People Rather Be Right than Rich




I think the if you own sex.com in Japanese and sex.com in English is Fetching 14 million dollars, Being that the standard is already set i see absoluty no reason to sell for under 30-50% of that unless you are funding other purchases... I think somewhere we have to make idn's in some sense have some sort of standard against Ascii
Most of the domains now in asciii are going "up" to 100k on dnjournal.com As the japanese population is smaller, prices will probably be less until those ascii prices go up.

[touchring]

Latin domains that go up to 100K or more are valued based on PPC earnings, that goes as far as commercial keywords are concerned. If IDNs do take off, major cities and country names may command 5-6 figure valuations by intrinsic value alone.

[OldIDNer]

I think it's best to always diversify, with domains and everything else. Who knows what lies ahead. Best to have as many options as possible.

[jose]

I think that guy who sold tv.com would cry if he knows that his domain is worth a couple million

I own tv.com (serious) in greek. Look exactly the same. (xn--yxan.com)
Opinions?

I don't trust Chinese domains. They don't obey "our" rules. Everything can change overnight.

[Giant]

I own tv.com (serious) in greek. Look exactly the same. (xn--yxan.com)
Opinions?

I don't trust Chinese domains. They don't obey "our" rules. Everything can change overnight.

Wow, tv.com looks so cool. Thanks! I just got my first Greek tv.net :-)

What do you mean you don't trust Chinese domains? If Chinese domains die, Greek domains die too. No one can afford not to obey "our" rules, no matter how powerful they are.

There's only one world, there should be only one set of rules. You can fight and follow the procedure to change certain rules, but you cannot not to obey these rules.

[touchring]

I own tv.com (serious) in greek. Look exactly the same. (xn--yxan.com)
Opinions?

I don't trust Chinese domains. They don't obey "our" rules. Everything can change overnight.


τν has no OVT?

Chinese officials do not play by any rule - everything is decentralized - the same with CNNIC, they set their own policy and what is best for internet growth and e-commerce - IE7 had the plugin because of them.

You'll be surprised, how many ethnic chinese idners are on this forum....and on the internet.

[Rubber Duck]

Chinese market has uncertainties as do others. By all means diversify and be opportunistic at the same time. But don't compare the Greek market with China. It is like regging .org.uk in preference to dot.com!

[yanni]

I own tv.com (serious) in greek. Look exactly the same. (xn--yxan.com)
Opinions?


The letter "v" in Greek is the equivalent of "N" in English.
Furthermore, Greeks very rarely do they use the term "tv" for television and when they do it's spelled differently. And, both com and net are available.

PM me if you want the correct version, but personally I wouldn't spend the $7

Optically, it looks good :)

[Giant]

The letter "v" in Greek is the equivalent of "N" in English.
Furthermore, Greeks very rarely do they use the term "tv" for television and when they do it's spelled differently. And, both com and net are available.

PM me if you want the correct version, but personally I wouldn't spend the $7

Optically, it looks good :)

Gee, I thought I could make at least $5,000 on tv.net :-) Well, this is my worst record in regging domain names. I just wanted to have some fun with Greek, it turned out it's really all Greek to me.

[yanni]

Gee, I thought I could make at least $5,000 on tv.net :-) Well, this is my worst record in regging domain names. I just wanted to have some fun with Greek, it turned out it's really all Greek to me.

You can always sell it as a novelty domain :)

You never know.

BTW, if you need help with Greek translations, I'm your man. Send me a pm before you reg. so you won't make costly mistakes.

[Giant]

You can always sell it as a novelty domain :)

You never know.

BTW, if you need help with Greek translations, I'm your man. Send me a pm before you reg. so you won't make costly mistakes.

Thank you for your advice. If I see any good Greek domains I like, I will consult you first.

But I don't really want to get in Greek domains, because I am not smart enough to handle the language. I focus on Englidh, Chinese, Japanese, and a few French domains. I can do better on the languages I understand.

[yanni]

Thank you for your advice. If I see any good Greek domains I like, I will consult you first.

But I don't really want to get in Greek domains, because I am not smart enough to handle the language. I focus on Englidh, Chinese, Japanese, and a few French domains. I can do better on the languages I understand.

Yea, I know what you mean. That's the reason why I don't dabble in the Japanese, Chinese or Arabic names.

Plus the Greek domain market will probably take a looong time to mature.

[bwhhisc]

Yea, I know what you mean. That's the reason why I don't dabble in the Japanese, Chinese or Arabic names. Plus the Greek domain market will probably take a looong time to mature.

China = 1.3 Billion population
India= 1.1 Billion population
Total Arabic Countries- must be 300 million?
USA- 295 Million population
Russia 140 million population
Japan 130 million population
Germany 83 million
England 50 million
Greece 11 million population

Japan, China, Russia, Arabic, and India are going to be the big shows in IDN's. DON'T MISS OUT! These, by far provide the best overall opportunties, even if you just grab a dozen of each! There are plenty of people in the forum that can help with translations so don't be afraid to ask.
.

[touchring]

It's better to compare broadband user base:

http://www.c-i-a.com/pr1105.htm

Top 15 Countries in Broadband Subscribers
Year-end 2005: Broadband Subscribers (#M) Share %
1. USA 46.9 21.6
2. China 35.9 16.5
3. Japan 26.4 12.2
4. South Korea 13.1 6.04
5. France 9.6 4.42
6. Germany 9.5 4.40
7. UK 8.9 4.35
8. Canada 6.7 4.09
9. Italy 6.6 3.05
10. Spain 4.6 2.12
11. Netherlands 4.4 2.00
12. Taiwan 4.3 1.97
13. Brazil 3.0 1.39
14. Australia 2.6 1.21
15. Belgium 2.1 0.97
Top 15 Countries 185.2 85.25
Worldwide Total 217.2 100


China's broadband user base grows 90-100% a year, this is a 2004 article, when subscriber base was 13 million versus 35 million a year later. I bet it wouldn't take more than 3-4 years before the number of subscribers reaches 100 million.

*China leads world on broadband - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3699820.stm


China is leading the world in the number of subscribers to high-speed net through phone lines, says a report.
The number of broadband subscribers via DSL (Digital Subscriber Line) has doubled in a year to 13 million.

Industry analyst David Greggains said it was "amazing growth," but was still only 6% of China's total phone lines.

The DSL Forum, an international broadband consortium, said high-speed DSL net grew globally with 30 million new subscribers over the last year.

"Worldwide, the number of subscriptions has grown amazingly," Mr Greggains, a vice president of the DSL Forum, told BBC News Online.

"By the end of June 2004, there were 78 million subscriptions worldwide.

"At this current growth rate, we confidently expect that around December this year, it will hit 100 million."

Net contradiction

The massive growth in China has partly been down to the growing community of online gamers, but also because the authorities have pushed towards using broadband in education.

"Video over DSL is a very big hit and the vast majority is local content for entertainment and education," said Mr Greggains.

"Another thing which is big is interactive learning, group learning where kids will get together and do homework jointly using the internet."


Where you have very dense populations in blocks, it is relatively cheap to provide

David Greggains, DSL Forum
Just as in South Korea, gaming and gambling is also big, particuarly interactive multiplayer games.

But there is still a long way to go, said Mr Greggains, until China matches South Korea's broadband penetration. There, 29% of all phone lines carry broadband net.

Although China has more DSL lines than any other country it is still only reached 1% of its massive population.

China's rate of growth is set to pass 20 million subscribers by the end of the year, though.

Ironically, China is believed to extend greater censorship over the net than any other country in the world.

Recent legislation required that all 110,000 net cafes in the country use software to control access to websites considered harmful or subversive.

In June, the Chinese authorities also set up a committee to oversee and ban imported games that "could threaten national unity".

But like many countries, explained Mr Greggains, China believes ubiquitous high-speed net access will drive the economy.

High-rise advantage

Locally-developed content, building on the skills of a computer-literate population, is seen as vital to growth.

Installing the DSL infrastructure and equipment required has proved to be economic in China because of the size of its population, as well as the geography of the state and how housing is organised.


Broadband net access is seen as a vital building block
In many areas, phone lines are being installed from scratch, so it is easier to make them DSL enabled from the start, said Mr Greggains.

"People tend to live in large blocks of flats, so it is relatively easy to put DSL provision in basements.

"Where you have very dense populations in blocks, it is relatively cheap to provide," he explained.

In countries with older phone infrastructure, like the UK, many areas have had to wait until their phone exchanges have been upgraded in order to carry broadband.

Typically, Chinese DSL is eight times faster than in the UK, which usually varies from 512Kbps to 1mbps.

But because metropolitan areas in China tend to be densely populated, even faster technology can provide broadband 40 times faster.

This is because the lines only need to travel relatively short distances from basements to service hundreds in a block of flats.

Global spurt

The global growth of DSL has been "truly exponential", said Mr Greggains. Four years ago, there were about one million subscribers, and that is approaching 100 million, he added.

Driving the take-up is the demand for video, online gaming, peer-to-peer file-swapping, and other multimedia activities.

"Everyone is hungry for better and more content," explained Mr Greggains.

"In the UK and Europe, it is very much about net access, while in the Far East, there is a phenomenal amount of gaming and video on demand."

DSL is the most common way to access the net and uses standard copper phone lines. Only in the USA is high-speed net through cable modems dominant.

There are many flavours of DSL, but the UK predominantly uses ADSL - Asymmetrical Digital Subscriber Line.

[Rubber Duck]

Yea, I know what you mean. That's the reason why I don't dabble in the Japanese, Chinese or Arabic names.

Plus the Greek domain market will probably take a looong time to mature.

Well, I only dabble in languages that I don't understand. Although it has its problems, I think sometimes it makes you more objective. It certainly increases your scope if you can free yourself from the shackles of familiarity. I think the total number of languages we are into in some way now is about 20!

[Giant]

Well, I only dabble in languages that I don't understand. Although it has its problems, I think sometimes it makes you more objective. It certainly increases your scope if you can free yourself from the shackles of familiarity. I think the total number of languages we are into in some way now is about 20!

Your brain power is amazing Dave, mine is slowing down a lot now.

[touchring]

Your brain power is amazing Dave, mine is slowing down a lot now.

What's more amazing is that Dave is from the mainframe and minicomputer era, but he sure uses the Internet and PC better than most of us. :-)

[Edwin]

Yes, more pre-boom sale prices:

http://www.igoldrush.com/feat2.htm

CNET bought these names for:

SEARCH.COM for $7,000
DOWNLOAD.COM for $20,000
TV.COM for $15,000

OTOH, CNET could have registered 500 $70 names instead of buying those using the same amount of money.

Wow, what a blast from the past (I just noticed this post)... I used to own igoldrush (since sold) and I was the one who interviewed Matthew Barzun. Oh, the nostalgia - happy days!

[Drewbert]

Careful there Edwin, your wisdom errrr age is showing!