SEO value of subdomains to domains

[rhys]

Japanese blogosphere is alight this week with comments about IE7, Japanese Domain Names, the Yahoo SEO factor, and also about creating Japanese language subdomains on top of ASCII.extension.

Can anyone tell me whether using a Japanese keyword in the subdomain of an ascii.extension has equal SEO value as holding the keyword Japanese.extension? I think that this is an important question for valuation purposes. For example as below:

さて、今度は、その仕組みを逆手にとってURLを作る。

日本語の文字列をPUNYコードに変換するサイトを開く
VeriSign IDN Conversion Tool
ブラウザの文字のエンコードを「UTF-8」に変更する
例）　IEの場合
　　「表示」クリック→「エンコード」→「Unicode　(UTF-8)」を選択
Input枠に、変換したい日本語を入れる
例）　ＣＭ検索ぽち
　　Type　は「Native Charactors」を選択
「convert」ボタンをクリックすると「PUNYCODE」が得られる
例）　　xn--cm-x93atey462a0dza
この「PUNYCODE」でサブドメインをとる
しばらくしてアクセスすると、日本語サブドメインでアクセスが出来る
いくつか契約している、安いレンタルサーバーで試してみたところ、ロリポップ ではムームードメインでドメイン契約をしていれば作成可能で、さくらインターネットではスタンダード以上の契約（＋さくらのドメイン取得）でサブドメインの設定が可能。さらに設定確認画面でPUNYコードが日本語に変換されて画面上で確認が出来る。

そうなると、通常のドメイン(aiueo.comなど）を取得するとき、最初からPUNYコードでとったら良さそうな気がするが、残念ながらロリポップでは取得できないと明記されていた。 （日本語ドメインは対応していないらしい）

これからは、日本語サブドメインの活用もSEOの重要な要素になるかもしれない。

[thefabfive]

Over the past month or so I have seen a dramatic increase in unicode subdomains occupying some very lucrative search positions. Check out the first 2 or 3 pages of search results for アダルト (adult). Two of the top ten results are unicode subdomains. I recall seeing more not too long ago.

It is a very interesting phenomenon. The Japanese search culture latched on to the SEO advantages of IDN in a very interesting way. Curious to see how far this goes.

[mdw]

Very interesting stuff Rhys, I had no idea people were doing this! And it looks like it works just fine.

Looks like the days of having an easy way to the first page of results by virtue of a generic keyword IDN are gonna be threatened by a lot more competition. Hopefully the SEs consider terms in the domain to trump terms in a subdomain, all other things being equal. Otherwise I may experiment with IDN.IDN.com

[rhys]

Anyone have any reference points as to how subdomains work from an SEO point of view in ascii-land? For instance how does Yahoo us treat "water.damage.com" or "waterdamage.zeus.com" versus "waterdamage.com"? Again because this is Japan, I am more interested in learning how Yahoo prioritizes for ASCII rather than Google - though learning about that would be nice too.

[jacksonm]

Anyone have any reference points as to how subdomains work from an SEO point of view in ascii-land? For instance how does Yahoo us treat "water.damage.com" or "waterdamage.zeus.com" versus "waterdamage.com"? Again because this is Japan, I am more interested in learning how Yahoo prioritizes for ASCII rather than Google - though learning about that would be nice too.


I personally believe that the domain name has next to zero to do with google rankings. I have brought several domains to number one spot for the search term I targeted where the domain name wasn't even a real word, wasn't the targeted search term, and had nothing to do with the content of the page. I have also seen many examples of this from 3rd party domains.

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[Rubber Duck]

I personally believe that the domain name has next to zero to do with google rankings. I have brought several domains to number one spot for the search term I targeted where the domain name wasn't even a real word, wasn't the targeted search term, and had nothing to do with the content of the page. I have also seen many examples of this from 3rd party domains.

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Difficult to accept that perspective when even parking pages get ranked.

[jose]

I personally believe that the domain name has next to zero to do with google rankings. I have brought several domains to number one spot for the search term I targeted where the domain name wasn't even a real word, wasn't the targeted search term, and had nothing to do with the content of the page. I have also seen many examples of this from 3rd party domains.

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Actually it’s quite the opposite. And it's not my words. One of the longest and most active discussions on a very well known SEO forum this week was discussing precisely that and most of them agree on the importance of the domain name, WHEN properly promoted. Do a search for Baby, Viagra or other high competitive keywords.

[alpha]

Can anyone tell me whether using a Japanese keyword in the subdomain of an ascii.extension has equal SEO value as holding the keyword Japanese.extension?

cue Olney..

[domainguru]

Best SEO article I have ever read:

http://www.seomoz.org/article/search-ranking-factors

Showing that:
(a) There are a large number of factors Google take into account when giving rankings, and
(b) Even experts cannot entirely agree which are most important

[Rubber Duck]

Did it occur to anyone that an SEO expert is not highly likely to rank an exact match domain as being highly important because it is the one thing he least likely to be able to offer you? Why hype something you are not in a position to sell?

[domainguru]

Did it occur to anyone that an SEO expert is not highly likely to rank an exact match domain as being highly important because it is the one thing he least likely to be able to offer you? Why hype something you are not in a position to sell?

Well if you consider this a sales document, then indeed, you probably shouldn't bother reading it. But actually, they rank domain names as fairly important.

[rhys]

From the article here is the relevant conversation. The general theme - yes keyword matches makes a difference for Yahoo regardless of whether it is the domain itself or merely part of the domain URL. More controversial for Google how exactly it accounts for it.

Keyword Use in Domain Name. Including the targeted term/phrase in the registered domain name, i.e. keyword.com

3
Moderate Importance
1.2 Average Agreement
Jonah SteinIf your nicesly aged, non-hyphenated domain name contains your primary keyword, your 25% of the way to the top...10.
Scottie ClaiborneUsing a keyword in the domain name is only helpful if you separate the words with hyphens. General speculation is that too many hyphens might trigger a trust issue with the domain, so more than one or two hyphens is not recommended. A good brand name is always better than a keyword-filled domain.
Aaron WallIf the domain name is an exact match I believe it is strongly weighted because it might be a sign of a navigational query. Plus having an exact match domain means their were either early to their topic (and thus perhaps a topical leader), or they may have paid a domainer nosebleed prices for the domain.
Mike McDonaldI don't see how having a domain consisting of (or containing) one of your primary keywords could be a bad thing. One of the precious few consensus opinions in SEO is the importance of link text. That said, I don't think there is much (if any) value if the keyword is one of 50 hyphenated keywords stuck in front of a .net.
Show the rest of the comments

Barry SchwartzBut the key is that people will link to you by your domain name. So if you sell Blue Widgets and your domain is www.bluewidgets.com, people are more likely to link to you as "Blue Widgets" than if you had the name rustybrick.com. :)
EGOLThat domain name will be used for a lot of your backlinks. Having your KW as your biz name will get you great anchor text links. Not using a domain with your KW will cost you a lot of relevant anchor text. Outside of the algo here is an example why you should buy the KW.com for your turf if you can get your hands on it. Makes you an authority even if undeserved - how valuable is that when you are asking for a link? It makes you THE MAN for that turf - how valuable is that when a customer is on your site. And can provide enormous psychological energy and you should never underrate that! Also looks great in the SERPs and might get you a few extra clicks.
Andy HagansThis is only of importance when the domain name is an exact match for the keyword phrase; i.e., it's very easy to rank keywordphrase.com or keywordphrase.org for [keyword phrase], however it won't necessarily give keywordphrase.com a bonus for [keyword phrase + modifier]
Eric WardOnce upon a time, maybe, and for certain types of content maybe still. It depends on the content, the source, and the trust earned previously.
Eric EngeThe influence of this one is microscopic. Main value is to help the use understand what your site is about.
Neil PatelThis doesn't prove that it is important, but if you do a search on Google you will notice domains with keywords bolded.
Russ JonesNot much weight except in nascent, untapped niches. Does play a good role in CTR from the SERP, though. (keyword highlighting in the title, snippet, and url are great boosts) It can have value when the keyword is a copyrighted term, however. (ie: the only domain with the keyword in it is yours)
Thomas BindlImportance is mainly due to the keyword in links when people use the domain name as anchor text.
Michael GrayHaving an exact match for a domain name and keyword is important. Having a partial match isn't. http://www.bluewidgets.com - good http://www.cheapbluewidgets.com - bad
Ben PfeifferMakes a hell of a website to have your target keywords in the domain. Acts as an overall contributor to rankings by means of other rankings factors. Keywords in domain are used extensively in linking, titles, urls, etc..
GuillaumeBeing a fairly new SEO'er, I'd say that from all the stories I've heard compared to my actual experimentations, I'd say this has little value if you try to do white-hat, but could be more effective with massive link campaign / spamming (while getting you flagged!)
Lucas Ng (aka shor)Not from Google itself, but you will get some pages linking to you using your domain's keywords, so there is that benefit.
Marcus TandlerThe only advantage of a keyword in a domain name is, that when you get linked at just with your URL, you have the keyword in the anchortext.
Jill WhalenMuch less weight than many people believe, it's more of an indirect weighting due to the URL sometimes being used as the anchor text. Definitely not the key to high rankings as some seem to think.
Ani KortikarAdvantage is having natural links reflect positively for keyword rankings, but it is becoming more difficult to get right keywords.
Natasha RobinsonSeems to be more important in Yahoo however guess this should be Google focused, no?
Chris BoggsCoupled with use in the page Title and on-page content, this is a factor. Having the word in the URL alone will likely not help without some support.
CavemanNot very important in terms of algo weighting. Factor in backlink anchor text and SERP click-through's, etc., and it is clearly important. I would probably not launch a new brand today without owning the brand name as a domain.
Todd MalicoatKeywords in domains has come full circle to play an increased role in rankings. My speculative side says that it's to counteract the problems caused by increased trust filters to assist sites in ranking for their brand names. The consequence is that exact match keyword domains do exceptionally well assuming they have no dashes in them.
Rae HoffmanI think this also depends on the engine. You'll see a lot more benefit from a domain using keywords in MSN than you will in Google.
Roger Montti aka martinibusterI belive there is some advantage in having the non-hyphenated version of the domain, especially in conjunction with trust factors such as age, quality of links, and other factors. That said, a look at the SERPs makes it abundantly clear there are far more importanct factors at play. So don't expect a good domain to be a shortcut. It's not. You still have to do the grunt work.


Keyword Use in Page URL. Including target terms in the webpage URL, i.e. seomoz.org/keyword-phrase

2.8
Moderate Importance
1 Average Agreement
Barry SchwartzHaving them bolded in the search results are worth a lot in my opinion.
Aaron WallNot weighted anywhere near as much as an exact match domain name, but helps improve CTR (and thus relevancy if CTR factors into relevancy scores) and some people will link to pages using the URL as anchor text.
Ben PfeifferWorks very well in Yahoo. Great for user navigation and still worth while to do as a basic SEO methodology. Use hyphens.

[alex]

Over the past month or so I have seen a dramatic increase in unicode subdomains occupying some very lucrative search positions.

I have been noticing the same thing when looking at search results to see how IDNs are placed.

Unicode domains, subdomains and file names (.html) seem to be placed very well. In fact, they may be placing too well. I'm afraid SEs might eventually adjust their algorithms to lessen this effect as IDN usage grows. It shouldn't hurt long term value though, since premium generics will still be stronger than the alternatives and a scarce commodity. It just means IDN sites will need proper development for good placement, since more and more IDNs will be competing with each other. In other words, as IDNs become commonplace, the "IDN effect" boost will disappear since they will be as widely used as ASCII domains are today.

[Rubber Duck]

Well if you consider this a sales document, then indeed, you probably shouldn't bother reading it. But actually, they rank domain names as fairly important.

Yes, I actually had noticed and my argument makes the significance of that even greater.

Exact match domains are in fact the most significant factor, because it the one factor that is in restricted supply. Virtually anything else is just a a matter of a bit of SEO.

[rhys]

I think an adjustment will probably be necessary down the road. Hopefully this will clearly favor the domain name (of which there are limited instances) over just the subdomain (of which the supply is unlimited).

[Rubber Duck]

I think an adjustment will probably be necessary down the road. Hopefully this will clearly favor the domain name (of which there are limited instances) over just the subdomain (of which the supply is unlimited).

I think with the Japanese market there has been a tendency to weight parts of the URL other than the domain simply because a match of the Domain up until now has been pretty pointless. If you have Japanese character content and search but ASCII domains, matching the domain is about as likely as pollinating apple trees with pig's semen.

[gammascalper]

The beauty is that Japanese developers will come up with real, useful sites on subdomains, but a large % of visitors will only remember the subdomain keyword and end up navigating to the generic domain.

I think we're witnessing in fast forward, some sort of IDN and navigation evolution.

[Rubber Duck]

The beauty is that Japanese developers will come up with real, useful sites on subdomains, but a large % of visitors will only remember the subdomain keyword and end up navigating to the generic domain.

I think we're witnessing in fast forward, some sort of IDN and navigation evolution.

Yes, and same pattern is evident in Russia as well.