Korean IDN grabs the top slot in at Snapnames [Archive] - IDN Forums

alpha

23rd May 2007, 05:14 AM

already reported here, but good to see it in the "press"

http://dnjournal.com/domainsales.htm

also cropping up on Franks blog and at Jay's http://blog.domaintools.com/2007/05/korean-idn-domain-is-the-top-domain-at-auction-this-week/

Yes, you are reading it right, an IDN domain name takes the top sale this week at Snapnames.... English speaking bidders should hire contracts to go through IDN names that are going to auction. This is a prime example of a high quality domain that is worth several hundred thousand if not a few million. IE7 and Firefox both resolve IDNs now and this auction looks like a down right steal to me.

If someone wants to be a millionaire, it is not to late to start. Buy names like this and HOLD.

let the good times roll :)

Olney

23rd May 2007, 05:19 AM

I thought there were 2 Korean domains?

mulligan

23rd May 2007, 05:29 AM

Should have been 2 Koreans up there ... payment issues? non completion? mid completion?

thefabfive

23rd May 2007, 05:36 AM

Great exposure.

Maybe the other one will hit nearly as high on the list next week and help keep the momentum going.

Asiaplay

23rd May 2007, 05:46 AM

Olney,

As I understand it there are only four Korean domains which are open for public registration - namely:

.kr top level
.co.kr company
.pe.kr personal
.or.kr organisation

There is also .ne.kr - network (but unsure if is open for registration or not)

Aside from this there are a lot of closed for registration by members of the general public domains / IDNs...

e.g.
.go.kr
.mil.kr
.seoul.kr
etc. etc.

List goes on and on for the closed domains... see http://whois.co.kr/kr/index.asp

Also be careful of the ".kr.com" IDN offered at http://www.e3internet.com/shop/check.php if you are targeting Korea itself (it is not used in Korea and my best guess is that this is a USA based sub-com domain).

Cheers, Asiaplay

seamo

23rd May 2007, 05:57 AM

Awesome.

This news is a head-turner - it will give the IDN market a nice boost.

I imagine we'll also get a corresponding surge of new members here in the coming weeks.

domainguru

23rd May 2007, 06:03 AM

I imagine we'll also get a corresponding surge of new members here in the coming weeks.

Yeah, and most of 'em saying "How much annual PPC do IDNs go for?" - can't wait :rolleyes:

Funny how the ASCII blogosphere is now full of "hot IDN" comments, when 3 months ago they couldn't give a shit. Yeah, I know, it's all about the money, but its been so phreaking obvious to IDNF members for years the money would turn up once IE7 had started to work its "magic" and turn IDNs from good idea into working reality.

Bring on the ASCII deep pocket brigade - it will be good fun turning them down.

alpha

23rd May 2007, 06:17 AM

I imagine we'll also get a corresponding surge of new members here in the coming weeks.

yup and the flippers flipping TMs like McDonalds

or killer commercial terms such as deepfrieddogpopsicle

IDNCowboy

23rd May 2007, 06:37 AM

Should have been 2 Koreans up there ... payment issues? non completion? mid completion?
one doesn't look like its been paid for yet :(

clipper

23rd May 2007, 06:57 AM

also cropping up on Franks blog and at Jay's http://blog.domaintools.com/2007/05/korean-idn-domain-is-the-top-domain-at-auction-this-week/

Yes, you are reading it right, an IDN domain name takes the top sale this week at Snapnames.... English speaking bidders should hire contracts to go through IDN names that are going to auction. This is a prime example of a high quality domain that is worth several hundred thousand if not a few million. IE7 and Firefox both resolve IDNs now and this auction looks like a down right steal to me.

If someone wants to be a millionaire, it is not to late to start. Buy names like this and HOLD.
Nice.

thegenius1

23rd May 2007, 07:32 AM

This calls for more Champagne :)

Olney

23rd May 2007, 08:06 AM

I think the other factor is it seems like the registries are keeping the good English drops for themselves.
This weeks DNJournal looks like it went to the Global Domaining Fest.
None of the terms were generic English Dot coms in the top 10.

Perhaps some actually will hire consultants to bid on premium domains in Snap.
If it's based on getting stuff on Snap that I probably couldn't afford myself (now) why not.

Already a lot of members have some of the best premiums in multiple languages.
It's good that the negativity is fading & facts & cultural differences are being taken as the reason why we invest.

Wot

23rd May 2007, 09:03 AM

Yeah, and most of 'em saying "How much annual PPC do IDNs go for?" - can't wait :rolleyes:

Well, how much annual PPC do IDN'S go for. :p

Rubber Duck

23rd May 2007, 09:20 AM

Well, how much annual PPC do IDN'S go for. :p

I didn't know you could get dot coms on the aftermarket :confused:

Wot

23rd May 2007, 09:24 AM

I didn't know you could get dot coms on the aftermarket :confused:

Aftermarket ?

rhys

23rd May 2007, 09:44 AM

Yeah, and most of 'em saying "How much annual PPC do IDNs go for?" - can't wait :rolleyes:

.

How about responding in terms they can understand:

10 times 15% of relevant OVT assuming 20%-30% CTR multiplied by 50% median overture bid. So 携帯.jp with monthly ovt of 230,000 and median bid of 38 yen could be worth: 690,000*19yen*8 = 104,880,000 yen or $888,000

Rubber Duck

23rd May 2007, 09:47 AM

How about responding in terms they can understand:

10 times 15% of relevant OVT assuming 20%-30% CTR multiplied by 50% median overture bid. So 携帯.jp with monthly ovt of 230,000 and median bid of 38 yen could be worth: 690,000*19yen*8 = 104,880,000 yen or $888,000

That is a very auspicious number Rhys. You are obviously pitching at the local market there. :p

rhys

23rd May 2007, 10:00 AM

That is a very auspicious number Rhys. You are obviously pitching at the local market there. :p

;) I do mean to be a little provocative here because valuation method will become very important now in the days before type-in traffic is established. If I had 携帯, I don't think I would release it for anything less. You know I'm a buyer not a seller.

Clearly as an asset class that is growing rapidly, we have to come up with a common framework based on as much objective information as is available. That is, the prospective type-in traffic value of the search term ( local OVT results) and commercial potential measured as 50% of median bid on bidtool. Current PPC multiples is only useful for slow-growth ascii domains.
I would discount extensions .JP = 1 .COM = 1 .NET = .1 .TV = .001 .BIZ = .001

Thoughts?

Rubber Duck

23rd May 2007, 10:12 AM

seamo

23rd May 2007, 10:35 AM

Clearly as an asset class that is growing rapidly, we have to come up with a common framework based on as much objective information as is available....

Thoughts?
I haven't been domaining very long, nor am very learned, but this is my prophetic vision. Make of it what you will.

The market does not need to justify an IDN's value based on traffic stats to anyone yet. Appeals to ascii based formulas are premature by years. Why?

Because in the near future the market will be blown open by a rush of local language investors. And they sure as hell won't need convincing about the value of an internet address in their mother tounge that means 'mobile', or 'sex', or 'loan'.

I think that as much as speculation has driven this market in the past, it is not finished with us yet. In fact, a golden era of IDN specualtion may be about to dawn...

IMHO

Rubber Duck

23rd May 2007, 10:57 AM

Because in the near future the market will be blown open by a rush of local language investors. And they sure as hell won't need convincing about the value of an internet address in their mother tounge that means 'mobile', or 'sex', or 'loan'.

I think with regard to Korean that is already happening.

The Cat is now out the bag. The Chinese expatriate community will pick up on this soon enough. All hell is about to break loose.

I exceeded my monthly quota yesterday alone!

rhys

23rd May 2007, 11:07 AM

I haven't been domaining very long, nor am very learned, but this is my prophetic vision. Make of it what you will.

The market does not need to justify an IDN's value based on traffic stats to anyone yet. Appeals to ascii based formulas are premature by years. Why?

Because in the near future the market will be blown open by a rush of local language investors. And they sure as hell won't need convincing about the value of an internet address in their mother tounge that means 'mobile', or 'sex', or 'loan'.

I think that as much as speculation has driven this market in the past, it is not finished with us yet. In fact, a golden era of IDN specualtion may be about to dawn...

IMHO

I think I know what you are saying but I would emphasize that even in the scenario you paint, a valuation method will still need to be applied. Local langauge investers and current domain holders will need a common framework to discuss what is fair value for the domain. Valuation is necessary in all transactions by definition.

It isn't fair to judge IDNs based on current traffic and revenue. But in my framework, I judge the IDN on a reasonable objective measure of future traffic and current commercial potential. It gives us a way to think about the value we are parting with when we sell a domain. Ultimately, we must each make the call for ourselves of do I sell for $500 today what I think will be worth $500,000 5 years from now? But most of us cannot do that very well without any guidance.

Rubber Duck

23rd May 2007, 11:15 AM

The stock market equivalent of the Traffic Multiples is P/E.

Blue Chip Companies often trade around 10-15 depending on the state of the market.

Smaller more dynamic companies tend to trade on much higher multiples, because future earnings potential is factor in even if it is still being heavily discounted. Many will have P/E of a 100 or more.

No Stock Market investor is going to mix apples with pears, and no IDNer should accept such nonsense valuations either.

What Rhys is doing here is really very rational for Japan where there is plenty of data. It might not be so applicable elsewhere at the present time.

Whether buyers and sellers adopt these models is another matter. I suspect ultimately they will just attempt to benchmark. The benchmark for Korean domains jumped 10 fold in twenty four hours. Expect a few after tremors.

I think I know what you are saying but I would emphasize that even in the scenario you paint, a valuation method will still need to be applied. Local langauge investers and current domain holders will need a common framework to discuss what is fair value for the domain. Valuation is necessary in all transactions by definition.

It isn't fair to judge IDNs based on current traffic and revenue. But in my framework, I judge the IDN on a reasonable objective measure of future traffic and current commercial potential. It gives us a way to think about the value we are parting with when we sell a domain. Ultimately, we must each make the call for ourselves of do I sell for $500 today what I think will be worth $500,000 5 years from now? But most of us cannot do that very well without any guidance.

touchring

23rd May 2007, 12:40 PM

Rhys, I had long convoluted discussion with Touchring here many months ago. I dubbed his valuation method as Bottom Up, whilst putting forward my own Top Down approach. It is good to see you standing clearly in the Top Down camp. Those that have are adopting Bottom Up, I will dub Wanabees.

Since 8 mths ago, the situation has changed tremendously, especially for japanese with adsense monetization. Valuation has become more complex, and depends on whether you are an SEO whiz - for which a few tricks can multiply revenue a 100 folds.

Btw, i've started recently to experiment with japanese adsense, and i noticed that even without indexing, traffic has increased and adsense earns much more than parking. I guess this might have something to do with the serp result in english problem that olney pointed out.

Rubber Duck

23rd May 2007, 01:03 PM

touchring

23rd May 2007, 01:12 PM

I'll take the first paragraph as an admission that what you were previously saying was nonsense.

The second paragraph on the surface appears to be nonsense, but perhaps we should wait for a fuller explanation before passing judgement.

No, i still standby my multiples model (this is what works in the long run). Maybe for immediate flipping, it doesn't matter, i agree.

For the second paragraph, i'll provide more info once i get a mth's data.

jacksonm

23rd May 2007, 01:17 PM

Btw, i've started recently to experiment with japanese adsense, and i noticed that even without indexing, traffic has increased and adsense earns much more than parking. I guess this might have something to do with the serp result in english problem that olney pointed out.

You don't have a serp without indexing, I don't understand what you're talking about traffic increasing over parking for unindexed domains. I missed the logic in this one :-)

The system I have in pilot at the moment completely solves the "serp result in english" problem that olney pointed out. Feel free to join if you like for the Japanese language domains which you don't have time to do a mini-site. For as much as people stated in that thread that this problem needed solving, I'm surprised how few people have taken the chance to participate in the pilot phase for free (only 2 people, albeit quite large players).

.

touchring

23rd May 2007, 01:21 PM

You don't have a serp without indexing, I don't understand what you're talking about traffic increasing over parking for unindexed domains. I missed the logic in this one :-)

The system I have in pilot at the moment completely solves the "serp result in english" problem that olney pointed out. Feel free to join if you like for the Japanese language domains which you don't have time to do a mini-site. For as much as people stated in that thread that this problem needed solving, I'm surprised how few people have taken the chance to participate in the pilot phase for free (only 2 people, albeit quite large players).

.

Sorry, i ought to be more precise, namedrive parked names do get indexed (some are not), just that they don't come up high in SERP for the keyword. I got generic japanese names that get serp traffic from searches "with extension", and these do get to the front even with fastpark.

Rubber Duck

23rd May 2007, 01:28 PM

No, i still standby my multiples model (this is what works in the long run). Maybe for immediate flipping, it doesn't matter, i agree.

For the second paragraph, i'll provide more info once i get a mth's data.

Yes, it works in the long run. Nobody is disputing that. Where it all breaks down is when you turn around and try to apply it to current traffic data, as you did. Then it is a complete nonsense.

You don't have a serp without indexing, I don't understand what you're talking about traffic increasing over parking for unindexed domains. I missed the logic in this one :-)

The system I have in pilot at the moment completely solves the "serp result in english" problem that olney pointed out. Feel free to join if you like for the Japanese language domains which you don't have time to do a mini-site. For as much as people stated in that thread that this problem needed solving, I'm surprised how few people have taken the chance to participate in the pilot phase for free (only 2 people, albeit quite large players).

.

Mike you will soon realise a that hefty proportion of people on this forum are all mouth and no trousers. That is sometime why smart-arsed newbies get a bit of a rough ride from time to time. It takes sieving to work out who you are dealing with.

jacksonm

23rd May 2007, 04:02 PM

Mike you will soon realise a that hefty proportion of people on this forum are all mouth and no trousers.

Wake up people and put on your trousers!

.

alpha

23rd May 2007, 07:35 PM

Wake up people and put on your trousers!

.
For the record, MJ is operating a genuine transparent trial.

Both myself and RD have pointed names at it, I would encourage some of you to PM MJ and partake, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain - and at the end of the trial, the more data the better.

IMO it will be pretty sad if only RD and I carry this torch.

Rubber Duck

23rd May 2007, 09:57 PM

By the way, did anyone notice that this domain made the YTD Top 100?

Silhouette

24th May 2007, 04:53 PM

Great news for IDN :)

Besides these 2 gems, anybody keep track of the "another less popular variant" (? ??): 휴 대 전 화 . com (also meaning cellphone, 携帶電話), how much did it go thru' Snap?
Or was it even on Snap?

Seems like the drop was around the same period.

(Sorry if I've made a mistake on this one)

domainguru

24th May 2007, 05:02 PM

Anybody know just how many variants there are in Korean of "cellphone" - would really help establish just what sort of a deal they got at Snapnames.

burnsinternet

24th May 2007, 06:18 PM

The dearth of Korean speakers here puts us at a unique disadvantage.

I believe that, in time, the buyers will be quite happy with the deal. Not as happy as those of you who got a 'cell phone' variant for reg fee in various languages....

If the other sale is reported next week, will domainers think that this second one is a resale of the first? Will they understand the concept of subtle variants? I wonder...

Drewbert

24th May 2007, 07:03 PM

Great news for IDN :)

Besides these 2 gems, anybody keep track of the "another less popular variant" (? ??)

That one probably didn't even hit anyone's radar. Certainly not "snap worthy", as Elaine would say.

yanni

24th May 2007, 07:05 PM

will domainers think that this second one is a resale of the first? Will they understand the concept of subtle variants? I wonder...

Dunno, butsome will use it as another reason NOT to get involved in idn, due to the possible variations of words and meanings in foreign languages.
And, if you think about it, this might be a deterrent for plenty of folk. Too much trouble to deal with for many.

For the record, MJ is operating a genuine transparent trial.
Both myself and RD have pointed names at it

Must have missed that thread. Someone care to point us "skirt-wearin-losers" there?

Tx.

touchring

24th May 2007, 07:29 PM

Anyone notices that the 2nd name hasn't been paid yet?

burnsinternet

24th May 2007, 08:17 PM

Dunno, butsome will use it as another reason NOT to get involved in idn, due to the possible variations of words and meanings in foreign languages. And, if you think about it, this might be a deterrent for plenty of folk. Too much trouble to deal with for many.

That was my thought. In a way, that might help keep the bad regs out of the auctions. For example, if an ascii domainer thinks Korean IDN is hot, goes to an online translator and regs all the big names from that translator.... Maybe that won't happen as often now?

The learning curve and cultural sensitivity needed for this IDNing thing will probably knock several mid-range domainers out of the running, many noobs will press on and learn, and the rich will get richer.

Anyway, I just thought it was a little strange that two Korean IDNs with the same translation Snapped at the same time. And how must that look to the traditional ascii domainer...? Hmmm...

Explorer

24th May 2007, 09:07 PM

Anyway, I just thought it was a little strange that two Korean IDNs with the same translation Snapped at the same time. And how must that look to the traditional ascii domainer...? Hmmm...

An IDNer gets in early and regs 2 great names.
Time goes by and he forgets to renew/misses renewal emails.
Two names expire at the same time, as they were regged at the same time.
Two expired names work their way into snapnames at the same time.

Nothing strange at all.

alpha

24th May 2007, 09:09 PM

Must have missed that thread. Someone care to point us "skirt-wearin-losers" there?

Tx.

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/11028-dns-hosting-for-location-based-parking.html

touchring

24th May 2007, 09:10 PM

Anyone knows who is the 2nd buyer, not one of us? hopefully.

Neptune

25th May 2007, 01:58 AM

domainguru

25th May 2007, 04:05 AM

there are variants in any language, you just have to be familiar with the language to understand, and realize which ones hold the most value.

ie. cell phone, cell phones, cellular phone, cellular phones, mobile phone, mobile phones, etc. etc.

i think because of the plural issue with ascii names, in some instances there are less variants in the asian scripts adding more value.

Yes, I realize the are "variants in any language". That's why I was asking specifically about the number of variations in Korean. But then again, we have constantly proved at IDNF, there aren't any Korean speakers here.

It would be good fun to find out for other major languages how many variants there are for the word "cellphone" in mainstream use.

I'll start off with Thai:

Main Term : มือถือ - 7399 daily searches, 4,620,000 google mentions.
Secondary Term : โทรศัพท์มือถือ - 5365 daily searches, 1,950,000 google mentions.

That's about it for Thais. Anyone care to join in with other languages?

Neptune

25th May 2007, 06:53 AM

jacksonm

25th May 2007, 12:40 PM

Must have missed that thread. Someone care to point us "skirt-wearin-losers" there?Tx.

LOL!

I have setup a system for the optimization of Japanese SERPs. It is simply meant to solve the problem of US-based spiders indexing your parked pages with english text from the templates. The system is limited to Japanese optimization at the moment, extension doesn't matter.

Contact me if you want to participate in the free 2-month pilot. You can send as many or few domains as you wish, the names and extensions do not matter.

The service will become a paid service after the pilot is over, assuming that I can prove that the pilot was successful.

.

touchring

25th May 2007, 12:43 PM

U might want to contact TDC. they got most of the dual language chinese and japanese names.

jacksonm

25th May 2007, 12:51 PM

At this point, I am not even implementing the original plan of dual-language names. This is strictly for Japanese names.

But yes, I could contact them in the event that I do implement the original plan.

.

Rubber Duck

25th May 2007, 01:06 PM

U might want to contact TDC. they got most of the dual language chinese and japanese names.

As TDC apparently own their own registrar, it would seem most likely that they have not already made their own hosting arrangements. Do you think they use Dreamhost?

jacksonm

25th May 2007, 01:18 PM

As TDC apparently own their own registrar, it would seem most likely that they have not already made their own hosting arrangements. Do you think they use Dreamhost?

Exactly. A competent network engineer should be able to figure out this traffic splitting stuff. However, there does seem to be quite a shortage the of competent ones working for registrars, hosting, and parking providers. It's really unbelievable.

.

touchring

25th May 2007, 01:24 PM

Exactly. A competent network engineer should be able to figure out this traffic splitting stuff. However, there does seem to be quite a shortage the of competent ones working for registrars, hosting, and parking providers. It's really unbelievable.

.

I shouldhave been more precise. Was referring to your dual language plan - what i wanted to say, most of the dual language keywords with traffic are really top stuff, which only an exclusive few here own.

jacksonm

25th May 2007, 01:33 PM

I shouldhave been more precise. Was referring to your dual language plan - what i wanted to say, most of the dual language keywords with traffic are really top stuff, which only an exclusive few here own.

Yes, I understood.

Anyhow, I also understand that while it is a brilliant plan, there isn't very much demand for it here. There seems to be much more demand for getting pages indexed in the correct language, which is what I have decided to focus on for now.

I would assume that TDC could figure this out for themselves if they had a need.

.

Rubber Duck

25th May 2007, 01:34 PM

I shouldhave been more precise. Was referring to your dual language plan - what i wanted to say, most of the dual language keywords with traffic are really top stuff, which only an exclusive few here own.

If precision was your goal you should have noted that we don't yet know whether this will work for SERP in Yahoo Japan, let alone Baidu in China which is a totally different case. If you wanted to do both the splitting would need to point the traffic probably at another proxy in a "home" territory. We don't know whether this would include Hongkong and Taiwan as opposed to having to set it up on the mainland which might entail all sorts or licensing problems. The other issue is of course is that if Chinese traffic is going out through the firewall and then coming back in again after having been split, how much of it is going to have stayed the course long enough for you to land those all important clicks. The firewall doesn't half slow down access times from outside China.

jacksonm

25th May 2007, 02:07 PM

The other issue is of course is that if Chinese traffic is going out through the firewall and then coming back in again after having been split, how much of it is going to have stayed the course long enough for you to land those all important clicks. The firewall doesn't half slow down access times from outside China.

This is the end-user case, so it is not slow at all. The end-user traffic doesn't go through any proxy.

.

Rubber Duck

25th May 2007, 02:16 PM

It might be worth bearing in mind that Singapore also uses Simplified Chinese.

chinainvest

28th May 2007, 02:41 PM

Good stuff... glad hear IDN's coming up the world..

alpha

16th June 2007, 04:28 PM

interesting, 2 weeks ago I read this:

핸드폰.com
(xn--hy1bj30dt7a.com)
("hand phone" in Korean)

selling for $42,250

then yesterday I read this:

.. North Korea has increased its public executions of people caught owning a mobile phone. :eek:

http://www.cellular-news.com/story/24361.php

IDNCowboy

16th June 2007, 04:34 PM

16th June 2007, 05:14 PM

Lmg67

18th June 2007, 02:55 AM

Anyone knows who is the 2nd buyer, not one of us? hopefully.

Are you all talking about the $2K sale to me last week for a Korean name? If so, the buyer absolutely paid. Just to show how we, me - all people, everyone in the world - shouldn't be too quick to draw conclusions:

I sent the DNJournal guy the info and he needed a screen shot. I sent him a screen shot and a few days later he wrote me back that his computer doesn't open up WordPerfect. (I was using my cousin's computer who believe it or not does NOT have MSWord).

It was close to deadline and - no big deal - but I got into a car accident last week with some moderate injuries and just was too tired to deal with it. My whole life has been doctor appointments and I just haven't had time to go back and take another screen shot, but seeing this thread motivates me to do it.

So, nobody has done anything wrong except the a**hole who tried to beat me thru an intersection when I had a green and he had a yellow. And I've filed the first lawsuit ever in my life. Hey, maybe I'll get rich from the lawsuit AND IDNs!

Anyway I'm basically okay just a lot of physical therapy and chiropractic treatment and the worst for me is I've had to postpone going to Israel for 3 more weeks.

So, isn't there an IDNForum policy that when someone gets injured and it's not because they did something dumb, that everyone who's a member buys at least one IDN from this person at a decent price, in lieu of flowers? I thought I read that somewhere....

Olney

18th June 2007, 03:07 AM

Let's hope you go through a quick recovery.
Take care...

touchring

18th June 2007, 03:39 AM

Are you all talking about the $2K sale to me last week for a Korean name? If so, the buyer absolutely paid. Just to show how we, me - all people, everyone in the world - shouldn't be too quick to draw conclusions:

No, we're talking about the $40k names. Btw, the accident report doesn't sound right, yellow + green? I don't know how the lights work in america, but it sounds impossible, i think the other driver is lying - he beat the red light, not yellow.

Lmg67

18th June 2007, 05:42 AM

Which country do you live in? Just curious.

No he's right. Real quick: I was going west w/ a solid green light. He was going east and moved into the left turn lane with a blinking yellow arrow. Meaning, YIELD to oncoming traffic. But he didn't, he turned left into the intersection just as I was going thru the intersection. So I slammed into him, but I veered left which lessened the damage and injuries.

Do you see now what happened?

BTW I turned the screenshot in so it should be in this week's DNJournal.