A French Lesson

[brianluedke]

Despite my persistant efforts to help everyone understand French domain names, there are still some difficult students. Some people do not understand that in French, nouns mean nothing without the article. You would never see a book, for example, with the title "Afrique". It would have to be "L'Afrique". Similarly, domain names should include the article to make sense in the French context, especially if it is a single word noun being used, and not multiple word combinations.

Other people confuse France with certain other countries, where the national domain dominates. Although the French do use the ".fr", the .com is also huge, especially for companies seeking a wider market than just their own region. Since Francophonie includes dozens of countries on five continents, that is usually the case.

Still others insist -- apparently without any evidence to back their case -- that an apostrophe is terribly confusing. "Le" is masculine "the", "La" is "feminine" -- but if the noun starts with a vowel, you simply combine the article with the noun with an apostrophe. Far from creating confusion (everyone knows apostrophes cannot be included in domain names, so where is the confusion?), this actually makes the noun and article even more inseparable.

In five minutes of browsing, I came across five major Web sites -- sites Francophones use on an hourly basis -- that combine the .com, plus the article, not to mention a would-be accent. I could easily include hundreds more that include one or two of these attributes, if not all three. (Part of the problem in finding these sites with ideal domain names is that I already have half of them locked up.)

lentreprise.com -- L'Entreprise
("Company" or "The Company")

lavion.com -- L'Avion
("Plane" or "The Plane")

lexpansion.com -- L'expansion
("Expansion" or "The Expansion", an economic newspaper with "l'économie au quotidien" as their motto, or "The Economy day by day". See leconomie.com below.)

leconomiste.com - L'Economiste
("Economist" or "The Economist")

lactualite.com - L'Actualité
("News" or "The News")

leurope.com - L'Europe
("Europe")

lafrique.com - L'Afrique
("Africa")

leconomie.com - L'Economie
("Economy" or "The Economy")

Oops. Those last three were a self-promotion -- sorry!

To earn my rights here at the IdnForums, let me add this one...

léconomie.com

[yanni]

you must've missed:

avion.fr (first on 39 MIL results)
lavion.fr (first on 67K results)

only a three second search.

Lesson learned.

Thanks!

[domainguru]

Oops. Those last three were a self-promotion -- sorry!

To earn my rights here at the IdnForums, let me add this one...

léconomie.com

Self-promotion - what a huge shock to everyone here that will be ....

Funny, for lafrique.com it says at the bottom:

"lafrique.com TM Lorna Nicole Kayitesi"

So its official, Brian, you are actually a girl?

And btw, checked out http://sénégal.com/ hoping for a bit of cultural enlightment, but all I got was titty pics. Shame on you if that is the best promotion you can do for a country.

[brianluedke]

On Google.fr, both names are currently in the top six for a search for <avion>. A search for <"l'avion"> yields lavion.com as the top result, and avion.fr is no where to be found. What was your point again?

you must've missed:

avion.fr (first on 39 MIL results)
lavion.fr (first on 67K results)

only a three second search.

Lesson learned.

Thanks!

Well, technically, a husband and wife are legally considered as a unit in certain circumstances, so you're not terribly far from the mark.

Self-promotion - what a huge shock to everyone here that will be ....

Funny, for lafrique.com it says at the bottom:

"lafrique.com TM Lorna Nicole Kayitesi"

So its official, Brian, you are actually a girl?

And btw, checked out http://sénégal.com/ hoping for a bit of cultural enlightment, but all I got was titty pics. Shame on you if that is the best promotion you can do for a country.

[L@@K]

You will not earn anything faking members...

[yanni]

On Google.fr, both names are currently in the top six for a search for <avion>. A search for <"l'avion"> yields lavion.com as the top result, and avion.fr is no where to be found. What was your point again?


Funny because the search for l'avion brings up no advertisers on my end on two mil results while a search for avion has 36 million results Loaded with ads.

THAT was my point.

What was yours?

[brianluedke]

What are you talking about? To whom are you speaking?

You will not earn anything faking members...

What was my point? Did you read my initial post?

I love it how I discuss a topic, e.g., the French affinity for domain names that include articles and the .com, and you apparently try to disprove my point by zooming in on a meaningless comparison of two major French Web sites.

You just run past the entire discussion and seize hold of some tiny point of interest, presumably trying to steer clear of the real discussion. Is it because you have nothing to say about the thrust of my argument?

http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&q=%22l%27avion%22&btnG=Rechercher&meta=

Funny because the search for l'avion brings up no advertisers on my end on two mil results while a search for avion has 36 million results Loaded with ads.

THAT was my point.

What was yours?

[L@@K]

(...bla bla nonsens and errors...)To earn my rights here at the IdnForums, let me add this one... (blabla again...)

You will not earn anything telling wrong comments here.

There's several possibilities:
1. you're talking about a subject you don't know
or
2. you are stupid
or
3. you try to fake everybody

In all case, for your credibility if you have any, i would suggest to stop to try to convince members about your theorie.

[brianluedke]

Oh, I just saw this. You're taking this completely out of context, but then, you can't understand the text, can you?

So how could you possibly understand the context?

And btw, checked out http://sénégal.com/ hoping for a bit of cultural enlightment, but all I got was titty pics. Shame on you if that is the best promotion you can do for a country.

Very impressive evidence you've presented to back up your case.

In future, remember that people get emotional when they get desperate.

You will not earn anything telling wrong comments here.

There's several possibilities:
1. you're talking about a subject you don't know
or
2. you are stupid
or
3. you try to fake everybody

In all case, for your credibility if you have any, i would suggest to stop to try to convince members about your theorie.

[domainguru]

So why all the titty pics on the home page of http://sénégal.com/ ?

Its a very simple question. Even you should be able to answer it. Is that all you see good about sénégal.com? Aren't there any men in sénégal you want to show pics of, or scenery, or landmarks, or anything else? Just tits? What the heck is wrong with you ....

[brianluedke]

There are already dozens of photos and articles about Sénégal at lafrique.com, and of course Sénégal.com is still (and permanently) under development.

Thank you for your interest. I'm glad to see that I'm already sparking discussion.

Is there anyone here interested in discussing the merits of the argument I presented in the original post above?

So why all the titty pics on the home page of http://sénégal.com/ ?

Its a very simple question. Even you should be able to answer it. Is that all you see good about sénégal.com? Aren't there any men in sénégal you want to show pics of, or scenery, or landmarks, or anything else? Just tits? What the heck is wrong with you ....

[555]

Dear Brian,

Do you have the email address for the lady on the top left photo (http://sénégal.com/ ) ? the one in the middle.

TIA and keep up the good work, you should go work with the UN

[L@@K]

Amazing to see a guy spreading french lessons while its websites are FULL of misspelling !

"un journalist rwandais"
un journaliste rwandais !
In lafrique

"Le Sénégal ne devrait pas éprouver de la fièrté"
Le Sénégal ne devrait pas éprouver de la fierté !
in Sénégal

I didn't search a long time...

[bwhhisc]

found a mention of you on the internet: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=brian+luedke&btnG=Google+Search

Burundi on the Internet Launched by a Rwandan university student, Mukaruginiza Tessa,
and her American boyfriend, Brian Luedke, who teaches English in Kigali. ...
www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/ssrg/africa/burundi.html - 50k - Cached - Similar pages

Are you an American pretending to be French? lol

[L@@K]

Did you take LaVérité.com as well ?? (thetruth.com)

Au revoir Brian !
I don't know a french whose name is Brian...

[seamo]

To earn my rights here at the IdnForums, let me add this one...

Sorry Brian - to earn your rights here at IDNF takes more than having a one-eyed opinion about the value of your own domains. There is a lot more to belonging to any community of people than having arrogance in bucket loads.

This is your second thread in the last few days that could be construed as trolling for fights.

It's fine to have a drum to bang, but if you want to be accepted and hopefully repair a rep that you have shredded with your incessant ranting on this subject, you had better put this particular drum down.

You will never earn your rights at IDNF like this - and you are skirting dangerously close to losing your rights altogether.

Nuf' said.

[Olney]

Brian take this as a last piece of advice
if people can't see what you see leave it be.
last piece of advice...
keep it at discussion level...
You thread title will also be changed.

[brianluedke]

You mean the girl in the swim suit? The color photo?

What does "TIA" mean? I forgot.

Anyway, if you need to contact me, use the email address available at my Web site.

Dear Brian,

Do you have the email address for the lady on the top left photo (http://sénégal.com/ ) ? the one in the middle.

TIA and keep up the good work, you should go work with the UN

What is your purpose here? I appreciate that if you meant it as a favor, but you seem more interested in attacking me than in having a discussion about domain names.. Anyway, I guess I should start ignoring you at this point.


Amazing to see a guy spreading french lessons while its websites are FULL of misspelling !

"un journalist rwandais"
un journaliste rwandais !
In lafrique

"Le Sénégal ne devrait pas éprouver de la fièrté"
Le Sénégal ne devrait pas éprouver de la fierté !
in Sénégal

I didn't search a long time...

Where did I say I was French???? Are you actually blaming me for your own assumptions?

Again, this forum has let me down.... no one wants to talk about domain names.... it's more fun to try to tear apart the leader, I guess.

found a mention of you on the internet: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=brian+luedke&btnG=Google+Search

Burundi on the Internet Launched by a Rwandan university student, Mukaruginiza Tessa,
and her American boyfriend, Brian Luedke, who teaches English in Kigali. ...
www-sul.stanford.edu/depts/ssrg/africa/burundi.html - 50k - Cached - Similar pages

Are you an American pretending to be French? lol

Are you in high school? I'm not worried about a "rep". I was only hoping for some intelligent conversation, but everyone here has let me down.

I can't say for sure that this is the last time I will ever give it a try here. But it is possible.

Sorry Brian - to earn your rights here at IDNF takes more than having a one-eyed opinion about the value of your own domains. There is a lot more to belonging to any community of people than having arrogance in bucket loads.

This is your second thread in the last few days that could be construed as trolling for fights.

It's fine to have a drum to bang, but if you want to be accepted and hopefully repair a rep that you have shredded with your incessant ranting on this subject, you had better put this particular drum down.

You will never earn your rights at IDNF like this - and you are skirting dangerously close to losing your rights altogether.

Nuf' said.

Olney, I have a last piece of advice for you... instead of acting as a censor, stifling vigorous debate, and thus lending credence to my critique that this forum has the air of a cult, you should allow open, free, fresh, and strident debate; debate which is not centered on attacking the "outsider" with a different perspective, but debate in which ideas compete on an equal plane, for the enlightenment and benefit of all.

Brian take this as a last piece of advice
if people can't see what you see leave it be.
last piece of advice...
keep it at discussion level...
You thread title will also be changed.

[blastfromthepast]

Are you in high school?

While there may be one or two people on this forum who are in high school, bwhhisc is not one of them.

[Edwin]

There's a difference between "avion" and "l'avion". One means "plane" and the other means "the plane". That's unarguable - it's just French grammar - although you seem to be trying anyway...

As for whether "avion" is used on its own, well it depends on the context, but it can be used in other ways than with the l', for example in the expressions "billet d'avion" (plane ticket). Not a l' in sight in that rather crucial expression!

In fact, looking down the top 100 Overture results for "avion", I can't immediately see any that would require the l'. Of course, Overture makes it that bit harder by throwing away linkwords (so you have to mentally add them back again), but if you can read French you'll see that most of the highest Overture keyphrases used either d' (of) i.e. literally "ticket of plane" or "avion" alone, with no linkword.

It may be that the apostrophied domain forms you have still "work" for SEO and other purposes, and that's a separate discussion, but it's patently false that they are "equivalent" to the non-apostrophied forms.

[bwhhisc]

I was only hoping for some intelligent conversation, but everyone here has let me down.

WE have let you down? Look at your thread title...you are insulting to others over, and over and over.
Your portfolio is decent, but I hate to break it to you but "yours" does not even stand in the same class,
quality and value as that of 90% of the members here.

Another example of your continued non welcome behavior...you barged in on Edwins sales thread (which is
against forum policy much less good manners) and berated him in an insulting and obnoxious manner.
Most members here know Edwin by long standing reputation in the domain community, and most here
would stake their reputation that what he is selling is indeed an excellent list. You need to change your attitude
if you want to participate here, I think comments on the thread from members, Olney etc. make that pretty clear.
You should heed the advice.

[L@@K]

To be more constructive, here's my point of view about articles.

There are several reasons why I was advicing you to avoid Le, La, Les, and L:

1. For subdomains
For example you can not do voyage.lafrique (travel), nor meteo.lafrique (weather).
It sounds awfull. Better voyage.afrique and meteo.afrique, it's obvious.

2. Difficulties for a non native speaker
Sometimes, it can be great with les or le for example, because, with them, you generalize to entire market as I said in a previous post.
BUT, it's very difficult for a non native speaker because you had to hear it.
Does it sound great or not ?
I was reading the posts about french domains and a french member said that he like letravail instead of travail. For him, it sounds better (for me as well).
You see it's all personal opinions, and most important, how it sounds to your ears.

It's why, again, i would advice all members to avoid le, la, les, because of these difficulties or simply ask. There's several native here, and they don't lie.

Hope it can help.

[burnsinternet]

I am no French teacher, but I would happily trade my leFrançais.com for Français.com in a New York minute.

Call me crazy, Brian, but the invitation is open to the owner(s) of Français.com down in Florida!

[yanni]

What was my point? Did you read my initial post?

You just run past the entire discussion and seize hold of some tiny point of interest, presumably trying to steer clear of the real discussion. Is it because you have nothing to say about the thrust of my argument?

http://www.google.fr/search?hl=fr&q=%22l%27avion%22&btnG=Rechercher&meta=


That tiny point of interest as you refer to it, is what makes a world of difference as to the future income stream and/or resale value of a domain.

You just don't wanna see it due to your obsession with trying to teach members here proper French Grammar.
Internet search dynamics don't always follow "proper" procedure.

Would a Francophone looking to buy air-tickets or an aircraft search for L'avion or avion? That is the question you should ask yourself and proceed accordingly.

Personally, after seeing the SE results (both free listings and paid adverts), I would say the latter.

[bwhhisc]

You just don't wanna see it due to your obsession with trying to teach members here proper French Grammar. Internet search dynamics don't always follow "proper" procedure.

I don't believe Brian is native French speaker, and also guessing all he was able to register were the domain
versions with "articles". He wishes to think of them as more valuable, and is trying to convince others of the
same, perhaps in hopes this thread would bolster his sales pitches. Yanni and L@@K are correct that the
internet does not always follow textbook grammer.

[nicb5]

To be more constructive, here's my point of view about articles.

There are several reasons why I was advicing you to avoid Le, La, Les, and L:

1. For subdomains
For example you can not do voyage.lafrique (travel), nor meteo.lafrique (weather).
It sounds awfull. Better voyage.afrique and meteo.afrique, it's obvious.

2. Difficulties for a non native speaker
Sometimes, it can be great with les or le for example, because, with them, you generalize to entire market as I said in a previous post.
BUT, it's very difficult for a non native speaker because you had to hear it.
Does it sound great or not ?
I was reading the posts about french domains and a french member said that he like letravail instead of travail. For him, it sounds better (for me as well).
You see it's all personal opinions, and most important, how it sounds to your ears.

It's why, again, i would advice all members to avoid le, la, les, because of these difficulties or simply ask. There's several native here, and they don't lie.

Hope it can help.

Word. And that's from another french native.

----

Mr leader ...I think you need to add 1 and 1, take a step back and call off that pityful so called lesson of yours. I think for the number of times it's been discussed, people have made up their mind about articles in french domains and there is just no way we need to "debate" this all over again.

Oh and Brian, I am curious as for what you have to say about this. I have about 100 french IDNs and haven't registered a single one with an article. Am I an "ignoramuse" considering the fact that I am a native french speaking person from Quebec and that I have spoken french for every single day in my life? Should I delete all my domains? Are they worth more than regfee? I really look forward to your answer. You ARE the french leader after all...

Edit: Clarified my post.

[blastfromthepast]

Should I delete all my domains? Are they worth more than regfee? I really look forward to your answer. You ARE the french leader after all...

Please do not delete your domains. Please push your domains to my account. PM for details.

[nicb5]

Please do not delete your domains. Please push your domains to my account. PM for details.

:p