IE7 most used Browser

[Rubber Duck]

"We are extremely excited to work with Microsoft to bring Me.dium to the IE7 users," said Kimbal Musk, CEO of Me.dium. "IE7 is the most widely-used browser worldwide, and now Me.dium users will be able to add most of their friends to Me.dium quickly and easily."

http://sev.prnewswire.com/computer-software/20070806/NYM07006082007-1.html

I doubt the veracity of this claim, but it is clear that this about to become a working assumption. Once that is the case then we are home and dry, as end users will come on board!

[L@@K]

I've got less...

[rhys]

Obviously Asia hasn't undergone AU for IE7 yet so this claim is not locally valid (yet).

[jacksonm]

Japanese site analysis:

Total visits: 10431

Browser: IE (97.58%), Safari (1.28%), Mozilla Compatible (0.65%), Firefox (0.25%), Netscape (0.13%)

IE version breakdown: 6.0 (98.24%), 5.5 (1.05%), 5.01 (0.22%), 5.23 (0.13%), 7.0 (0.04%), 4.01 (0.03%), 5.17 (0.02%), 5.22 (0.02%)

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[Rubber Duck]

No, but we seem to have had confirmation that it works in Israel even if you already have the US version installed. It seems reasonable to assume that outside those countries that encountered the ActiveX anomoly, IE7 is being rolled out. Much depends on how much Microsoft are still not telling us!

So basically IE6 is at 95%!

Japanese site analysis:

Total visits: 10431

Browser: IE (97.58%), Safari (1.28%), Mozilla Compatible (0.65%), Firefox (0.25%), Netscape (0.13%)

IE version breakdown: 6.0 (98.24%), 5.5 (1.05%), 5.01 (0.22%), 5.23 (0.13%), 7.0 (0.04%), 4.01 (0.03%), 5.17 (0.02%), 5.22 (0.02%)

.

[jacksonm]

So basically IE6 is at 95%!

In Japan, it would seem so. But I doubt the st1ppy cr3w would believe it.

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[Rubber Duck]

Obviously Asia hasn't undergone AU for IE7 yet so this claim is not locally valid (yet).

I know you cannot release any new information, but is your latest understanding that we are still on for the Third Quarter, i.e. September at the latest, or is this likely to go fuzzy on us?

[rhys]

My understanding is that third quarter is still the plan. As with any such time ranges given by a large company, I assume they are talking about hitting the last possible date in that range.

[domainguru]

Japanese site analysis:

Total visits: 10431

Browser: IE (97.58%), Safari (1.28%), Mozilla Compatible (0.65%), Firefox (0.25%), Netscape (0.13%)

IE version breakdown: 6.0 (98.24%), 5.5 (1.05%), 5.01 (0.22%), 5.23 (0.13%), 7.0 (0.04%), 4.01 (0.03%), 5.17 (0.02%), 5.22 (0.02%)

.

If that is from Google Analytics, then don't believe it. It doesn't report IE7 users properly because of Unicode.

[jacksonm]

If that is from Google Analytics, then don't believe it. It doesn't report IE7 users properly because of Unicode.

Yes, it was from analytics.

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[domainguru]

Yes, it was from analytics.

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Analytics just doesn't report IE7 users properly. I believe it is users who access sites via Unicode rather than Punycode (something like that anyway). We reported it to Google six months but they have done nothing. There was the same issue with Truehits.net, Thailand's national stats reporting system. We reported it and they fixed it in a day. Now we can see that around 17% of our users are IE7.

So cheers to Truehits and boos to Google :)

[Rubber Duck]

Thanks Lee for the input.

[mdw]

Now we can see that around 17% of our users are IE7.
My numbers show just over 14% for all versions IE7 on Thai sites. The sites may not constitute a good statistical sample suitable for extrapolating to all Thai sites. This result is based on less data (traffic) than yours I believe. However it *is* accurate, as I always backup the suspect google analytics IE reporting with the server logfiles. If most of the data from you guys' sites is actually from the games site perhaps your numbers are skewed a bit due to the younger demographic represented there??

Lessons to take away from this:

Never trust third party results without occasional verification. Also always remember that even exact results are subject to interpretation, for example accounting for Opera's user-definable user-agent string (not a big deal in Thailand - more relevant in Europe), pages failing to load fully before HTTP Requests can be made to 3rd party tracking sites, etc. And finally, always make sure you host your sites somewhere that you have access to your server logs!

[xxbossmanxx]

IE has all the users, I dont worry much about the geeks crying about my site not being viewable on their linux system. What ever happened to this thread? I thought IE was done?

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/12076-firefox-now-a-serious-threat-to-ie-in-europe-report.html?highlight=mozilla

[jacksonm]

IE has all the users, I dont worry much about the geeks crying about my site not being viewable on their linux system. What ever happened to this thread? I thought IE was done?

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/12076-firefox-now-a-serious-threat-to-ie-in-europe-report.html?highlight=mozilla

How does Europe equate to Asia, Einstein?

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[Rubber Duck]

How does Europe equate to Asia, Einstein?

.

Well try to get George Bush to point them out on an Atlas and you will see!

[xxbossmanxx]

The other thread acts like IE is done. This one supports IE.

RD likes to see anything USA fall and you are a biased linux user but the fact is IE is #1 everywhere and the other browsers make up such small numbers that nobody cares.

[jacksonm]

The other thread acts like IE is done. This one supports IE.

RD likes to see anything USA fall and you are a biased linux user but the fact is IE is #1 everywhere and the other browsers make up such small numbers that nobody cares.


Let me break it down into pea-sized bites:

European Countries
-------------------------------
IE: 70-80%
FF: 20-30%

Japan
-------------------------------
IE: 97%


If you want to ignore 30% of the european community, a good number of which are governmental agencies, then by my guest.

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[xxbossmanxx]

Pea sized bites eh? Constantly you attack me and my intelligence, what is your problem? Just for the record I score genius on IQ tests loud mouth. you sit up on some high horse acting like you are superior, and you know all about everything. typical comic book guy personna. prob with the fat ass to boot.

[jacksonm]

Just for the record I score genius on IQ tests

Well then you should certainly be able to understand that 20-30% of the European market does not "make up such small numbers that nobody cares", and that Europe is not Asia!

.

[Rubber Duck]

Bloody Hell! Does anyone else on here score Genius on their daily IQ tests? I must be dipping out on life somewhere!

[xxbossmanxx]

I dont think ff is pulling anywhere near that in EU. Until I dev an idn for an EU country it's of no importance anyway. I am the flip side, I support IE and think FF sucks :p

lol bloody hell, thats a new one.

[jacksonm]

I dont think ff is pulling anywhere near that in EU.

It's of no importance what you think; these are collected statistics. Read the article in the first thread. They may not be 100% correct, but I'd say they're pretty much on the mark.

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[Rubber Duck]

To Think has many definitions.

The transitive definitions are:

1. To have or formulate in the mind.
2.
1. To reason about or reflect on; ponder: Think how complex language is. Think the matter through.
2. To decide by reasoning, reflection, or pondering: thinking what to do.
3. To judge or regard; look upon: I think it only fair.
4. To believe; suppose: always thought he was right.
5.
1. To expect; hope: They thought she'd arrive early.
2. To intend: They thought they'd take their time.
6. To call to mind; remember: I can't think what her name was.
7. To visualize; imagine: Think what a scene it will be at the reunion.
8. To devise or evolve; invent: thought up a plan to get rich quick.
9. To bring into a given condition by mental preoccupation: He thought himself into a panic over the impending examination.
10. To concentrate one's thoughts on: “Think languor” (Diana Vreeland).

Jackson is clearly inclined to use 2.1-2, others here obviously use 2.4 almost exclusively!

[domainguru]

My numbers show just over 14% for all versions IE7 on Thai sites. The sites may not constitute a good statistical sample suitable for extrapolating to all Thai sites. This result is based on less data (traffic) than yours I believe. However it *is* accurate, as I always backup the suspect google analytics IE reporting with the server logfiles. If most of the data from you guys' sites is actually from the games site perhaps your numbers are skewed a bit due to the younger demographic represented there??

Lessons to take away from this:

Never trust third party results without occasional verification. Also always remember that even exact results are subject to interpretation, for example accounting for Opera's user-definable user-agent string (not a big deal in Thailand - more relevant in Europe), pages failing to load fully before HTTP Requests can be made to 3rd party tracking sites, etc. And finally, always make sure you host your sites somewhere that you have access to your server logs!

Official Truehits stats http://truehits.net/graph/graph_stat.php#WEB show Thai IE7 use at 14.45% so your 14% figure is dead on the average. I'm hoping the adoption rate is accelerating, but need to wait at least another month to confirm the trend.

[bwhhisc]

Official Truehits stats http://truehits.net/graph/graph_stat.php#WEB show Thai IE7 use at 14.45% so your 14% figure is dead on the average. I'm hoping the adoption rate is accelerating, but need to wait at least another month to confirm the trend.
If the IE7 uptake continues at that rate it seems that market share could be around 40% - 50% a year from now.
That figures could increase a bit if IE7 auto update is strong. Notice how the graph angle parallels the old IE6 at this stage.

[domainguru]

If the IE7 uptake continues at that rate it seems that market share could be around 40% - 50% a year from now.
That figures could increase a bit if IE7 auto update is strong. Notice how the graph angle parallels the old IE6 at this stage.

I'm really relying on new machine purchases to boost the adoption rate. Not sure about auto-update in Thailand. Anyone got an idea?

[mdw]

I'm really relying on new machine purchases to boost the adoption rate. Not sure about auto-update in Thailand. Anyone got an idea?
Exactly right. Businesses will hopefully upgrade old computer systems this winter, but even a September IE7 update won't affect millions of unlicensed copies of windows.

There seems to be a pervasive skepticism about the viability of Thai IDNs in Bangkok, judging from the folks I talk to. Let's hope that changes as IE7 usage gains critical mass. You encountering any of that skepticism Lee?

[Rubber Duck]

That scepticism will evaporate when then get holed below the water-line by competition using the SEO advantages of the IDN.

[jacksonm]

There seems to be a pervasive skepticism about the viability of Thai IDNs in Bangkok

You know, people behaved the same way when the heard that the car was about to arrive - they couldn't imagine how a car could be better than a horse. Some of the stubborn people kept riding horses til they died, but not many.

The internet is currently in a sort of מגדל בבל state, about to fall apart and become what is known as the native web.

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[mdw]

True enough - IDN sites do seem to shoot right up in rank up on google.co.th just as Japanese IDN sites do in Yahoo. If the status quo remains then the doubters will surely be forced to reconsider.

[Rubber Duck]

You know, people behaved the same way when the heard that the car was about to arrive - they couldn't imagine how a car could be better than a horse. Some of the stubborn people kept riding horses til they died, but not many.

The internet is currently in a sort of מגדל בבל state, about to fall apart and become what is known as the native web.

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Can't imagine who you might be alluding to!

[jacksonm]

If the status quo remains then the doubters will surely be forced to reconsider.

And that will be the time when we start to have $ signs in our eyes!

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[Rubber Duck]

True enough - IDN sites do seem to shoot right up in rank up on google.co.th just as Japanese IDN sites do in Yahoo. If the status quo remains then the doubters will surely be forced to reconsider.

Why would it change unless some organised groups who fully understand the implications put huge pressure on the Search Engines to get things changed. Even then would their arguments be accepted?

To combat the IDN effect, they need to understand it. If they understand it, they will invest. If they invest they are not going to kick off.

[domainguru]

Exactly right. Businesses will hopefully upgrade old computer systems this winter, but even a September IE7 update won't affect millions of unlicensed copies of windows.

There seems to be a pervasive skepticism about the viability of Thai IDNs in Bangkok, judging from the folks I talk to. Let's hope that changes as IE7 usage gains critical mass. You encountering any of that skepticism Lee?

When we mention we are running IDN sites, we just get asked about the fact that IE6 users can't access them. We say "they can, via search" and most Thais are even surprised by that.

How can Thai language domains, long-term, not be "viable"? Using what criteria? Our Thai IDN site currently gets 1M monthly pageviews and climbing. Is that not viable?

In the end, all the doubt evaporates when IE7 is mainstream and Thais see the advantages, not the current big disadvantage. We just have to be patient, but at least another year, maybe up to three years.

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, and it is still only ranked around 70K in Alexa, which only proves what a complete and utter waste of time Alexa Rankings are!

[mdw]

I can't really say I completely understand the position of the naysayers. But the folks I talk to tend to be young-ish, educated people in Bangkok. They have no problem navigating the "english" web, and often (way too casually) dismiss the shortcomings of english domains being used to describe Thai resources. I don't know older folks there that use the Internet much.

They cite examples of words like "Suvarnabhumi" (new airport) and tell me there's an implicit understanding about the spelling. Here the "bh" and the silent "i" characters are misleading to westerners. But they are the common techniques used in anglicized spellings to indicate to Thais how the *real* word is spelled.

I should probably post websites like "suvarnaphum.com" and "suvarnapoom.com" to demonstrate the problem - transliteration by phonetic spelling, versus common forms created by those familiar with the source language.

[domainguru]

I can't really say I completely understand the position of the naysayers. But the folks I talk to tend to be young-ish, educated people in Bangkok. They have no problem navigating the "english" web, and often (way too casually) dismiss the shortcomings of english domains being used to describe Thai resources. I don't know older folks there that use the Internet much.

They cite examples of words like "Suvarnabhumi" (new airport) and tell me there's an implicit understanding about the spelling. Here the "bh" and the silent "i" characters are misleading to westerners. But they are the common techniques used in anglicized spellings to indicate to Thais how the *real* word is spelled.

I should probably post websites like "suvarnaphum.com" and "suvarnapoom.com" to demonstrate the problem - transliteration by phonetic spelling, versus common forms created by those familiar with the source language.

I think educated Thais often suffer from a lot of "snobbery" i.e. they claim they know English really well, and don't have any problems with using it on the web. Its often just a front to impress their friends. Even well educated Thais are typically very bad at English. You only have to look at the crappy spellings of real English words in shops etc.

The simple truth is there is no standard way of transliterating Thai into English. Everyone knows that. And there is no way of representing the 5 Thai tones in ASCII English. To be honest, I can't even be bothered with this type of argument. I'm not really bothered with the 0.5% of Thais that claim they know English well and probably went to International schools that cost 1M baht a year. I'm bothered with the real Thai population, the people that perform the vast majority of searches from within Thailand.

[blastfromthepast]

Once received an envelope with this on the address:

HARD WAD UNIVERSITY

From Thailand.

[mdw]

....And there is no way of representing the 5 Thai tones in ASCII English.
Yes many simple words have all 5 meanings depending on the tone as the sole distinguishing feature, like the 5 words transliterated as "cow"

And that's not even taking into consideration the hand-gestures :)

HARD WAD UNIVERSITY
recently accredited school in Patpong I think

[domainguru]

Yes many simple words have all 5 meanings depending on the tone as the sole distinguishing feature, like the 5 words transliterated as "cow"

And that's not even taking into consideration the hand-gestures :)


recently accredited school in Patpong I think

Not forgetting short and long vowels, which again have no standard way of converting to English.

I could give you endless examples of Thais terrible use of English, both written and spoken. The one that always stands out for me is on the toilet at Carrefour "Oon-nut" where it says "Cripples Only" .... well at least they got the spelling right :p

And remember, this is all in Bangkok, which is allegedly the centre of nearly all Thai "higher" education.

[jacksonm]

If that is from Google Analytics, then don't believe it. It doesn't report IE7 users properly because of Unicode.

OK, after what you said about the analytics bug I checked the stats from a sample of 19k visits on my server, and found that IE7 is at 17.48%:

[root@tokyo httpd]# grep "GET / HTTP" * | wc -l
19036

[root@tokyo httpd]# grep "MSIE 7.0" * | grep "GET / HTTP" | wc -l
3328

[root@tokyo httpd]# perl -wle 'print 3328 / 19035 * 100'
17.4835828736538

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[Rubber Duck]

I can't really say I completely understand the position of the naysayers. But the folks I talk to tend to be young-ish, educated people in Bangkok. They have no problem navigating the "english" web, and often (way too casually) dismiss the shortcomings of english domains being used to describe Thai resources. I don't know older folks there that use the Internet much.

They cite examples of words like "Suvarnabhumi" (new airport) and tell me there's an implicit understanding about the spelling. Here the "bh" and the silent "i" characters are misleading to westerners. But they are the common techniques used in anglicized spellings to indicate to Thais how the *real* word is spelled.

I should probably post websites like "suvarnaphum.com" and "suvarnapoom.com" to demonstrate the problem - transliteration by phonetic spelling, versus common forms created by those familiar with the source language.

Yes, and IDN are supposed to be a phishing problem.

IDN will greatly reduce the risk of phishing in Asia PERIOD!

[domainguru]

OK, after what you said about the analytics bug I checked the stats from a sample of 19k visits on my server, and found that IE7 is at 17.48%:

[root@tokyo httpd]# grep "GET / HTTP" * | wc -l
19036

[root@tokyo httpd]# grep "MSIE 7.0" * | grep "GET / HTTP" | wc -l
3328

[root@tokyo httpd]# perl -wle 'print 3328 / 19035 * 100'
17.4835828736538

.

Cool. Roughly same IE7 penetration as Thailand then.