ICANN Tests IDN TLD (Live!)

[Rubber Duck]

that she was putting together a live IDN TLD test bed plan which includes translations of the string .test into eleven written languages (Arabic, Chinese-simplified, Chinese-traditional, Greek, Hindi, Japanese, Korean, Persian, Russian, Tamil and Yiddish) and ten scripts (Arabic, Cyrillic, Devanagari, Greek, Han, Hangul, Hebrew, Hiragana, Katakana, Tamil).

I was very excited to hear that and wanted to blog about it but there was much to catch up at work so I let it slide.

Two days ago, an update from ICANN on this project:


http://www.circleid.com/posts/782810_icann_tests_idn_tld_live/

[bwhhisc]

QUOTE:
We should take advantage of this test to file bugs for your favourite software vendors and get them to support IDNs! When was the last time IANA inserted a test TLD to the root? Tell them that if IANA agreed to putting these test strings in the root, this is not a default ignorable fringe technology alright.

So, help spread the word and test the Internationalized Internet!
END QUOTE

Nice article, good to see more positive press.

[jacksonm]

that she was putting together a live IDN TLD test bed plan which includes translations of the string .test into eleven written languages (Arabic, Chinese-simplified, Chinese-traditional, Greek, Hindi, Japanese, Korean, Persian, Russian, Tamil and Yiddish) and ten scripts (Arabic, Cyrillic, Devanagari, Greek, Han, Hangul, Hebrew, Hiragana, Katakana, Tamil).

I was very excited to hear that and wanted to blog about it but there was much to catch up at work so I let it slide.

Two days ago, an update from ICANN on this project:


http://www.circleid.com/posts/782810_icann_tests_idn_tld_live/


They are not live yet.

How can you know when they are?

1. download the root zone file (use your browser)

ftp://ftp.rs.internic.net/domain/root.zone.gz

2. open root.zone.gz with winzip and extract it to root.zone (it can handle .gz extensions)

3. open root.zone with notepad and do a search for "xn--"

When you find xn-- strings inside the zonefile, then you will know the test is live.


BTW, here are the test domains in case anyone is interested:


"Script" "Language" "SLD.TLD U-labels" "SLD A-label" " TLD A-label"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Arabic Arabic ﻢﺛﺎﻟ.ﺈﺨﺘﺑﺍﺭ xn--mgbh0fb xn--kgbechtv
Arabic Persian ﻢﺛﺎﻟ.ﺁﺰﻣﺍیﺵی xn--mgbh0fb xn--hgbk6aj7f53bba
Chinese, simplified Chinese 例子.测试 xn--fsqu00a xn--0zwm56d
Chinese, traditional Chinese 例子.測試 xn--fsqu00a xn--g6w251d
Cyrillic Russian пример.испытание xn--e1afmkfd xn--80akhbyknj4f
Devanagari Hindi उदाहरण.परीकाा xn--p1b6ci4b4b3a xn--11b5bs3a9aj6g
Greek Greek παράδειγμα.δοκιμή xn--hxajbheg2az3al xn--jxalpdlp
Hangul Korean 실례.테스트 xn--9n2bp8q xn--9t4b11yi5a
Hebrew Yiddish בײשפיל.טעסט xn--fdbk5d8ap9b8a8d xn--deba0ad
Kanji,Hirigana,Katakana Japanese 例え.テスト xn--r8jz45g xn--zckzah
Tamil Tamil உதாரணம.பரிடைை xn--zkc6cc5bi7f6e xn--hlcj6aya9esc7a

.

[blastfromthepast]

The test strings are now up for auction! http://www.idnforums.com/forums/13040-official-icann-test-auction.html#post82554

Greek is still available. Good luck!

[jacksonm]

The test strings are now up for auction! http://www.idnforums.com/forums/13040-official-icann-test-auction.html#post82554

Greek is still available. Good luck!

You ain't right, blast!

.

[blastfromthepast]

Just picked up the Greek with and without accents. Thank you!

Left the .nets free.

[burnsinternet]

Roger that. You just ain't right, Blast.

XN dash dash land gets pretty wacky sometimes. Take some time and help convert some ascii heathens, will ya?

[jacksonm]

It is currently anticipated that delegation of these TLDs and the evaluations, as described in the plan, will commence in September 2007.

Does this mean September 30th? One would think that ICANN would be a bit more specific about matters of such importance...

.

[blastfromthepast]

BTW, here are the test domains in case anyone is interested:

You ain't right, blast!

Not sure what you are finding not right. If you look at the past threads, I've always been one to share lists of available domains with people here, so when others share, it is natural to register them.
 

[jacksonm]

Not sure what you are finding not right. If you look at the past threads, I've always been one to share lists of available domains with people here, so when others share, it is natural to register them.


No, no, I didn't care about those names - go ahead and take them all :-)

"You ain't right" is just an expression to describe odd behavior (such as registering those names).

No worries!

.

[Rubber Duck]

Does this mean September 30th? One would think that ICANN would be a bit more specific about matters of such importance...

.

ICANN can get things in the press in a instance.

I am guessing that they are just going to sneak them initially and then hype them up a bit later on when they are convinced there is no problem.

Not sure what kinds of problems they are still anticipating seeing. The way they talk it is surprising they have not insisted that every domain that was ever registered be introduced in to a quarantine style test bed for about 2 years before you can use it.

I find it all very reminiscent of the kinds of attitudes that prevailed when people of different races had to travel on separate buses. Back then the perpetrators would have insisted they had legitimate rights that needed to be protected.

[blastfromthepast]

You have reached this web page by typing "example.com", "example.net", or "example.org" into your web browser.

These domain names are reserved for use in documentation and are not available for registration. See RFC 2606, Section 3.

[burnsinternet]

You have reached this web page by typing "example.com", "example.net", or "example.org" into your web browser.

These domain names are reserved for use in documentation and are not available for registration. See RFC 2606, Section 3.

What did you enter to get to those?

[blastfromthepast]

What did you enter to get to those?

http://example.com/

[burnsinternet]

I thought you were typing in idn.idn. Sorry.

[blastfromthepast]

I thought you were typing in idn.idn. Sorry.

Not yet, but I'll have to put some mini sites on the IDNs.

[jacksonm]

These are still not inserted...

.

[burnsinternet]

When will we hear the results?

[jacksonm]

Halfway through September and the test strings are still not inserted into the root.

.

[burnsinternet]

On a related note, I have been combing ICANN documents on IDN TLD. I see all kinds of interesting proposals regarding banning symbol/punctuation domains, banning single/double letter regs, etc.

I see absolutely nothing regarding the prospect that ascii & idn gTLDs would ever resolve to one gTLD. In other words, everything points to multiple IDN TLDs that would be treated as separate TLDs. No different than other extensions. In fact, it would seem that banning symbol/punctuation domains and single/double letter domains will apply to these new IDN gTLDs given that idn.ascii allowed these registrations.

Can anyone point to anything that will provide hope for those hoping for a single gTLD with IDN and ASCII equivalents?

[Giant]

On a related note, I have been combing ICANN documents on IDN TLD. I see all kinds of interesting proposals regarding banning symbol/punctuation domains, banning single/double letter regs, etc.

I see absolutely nothing regarding the prospect that ascii & idn gTLDs would ever resolve to one gTLD. In other words, everything points to multiple IDN TLDs that would be treated as separate TLDs. No different than other extensions. In fact, it would seem that banning symbol/punctuation domains and single/double letter domains will apply to these new IDN gTLDs given that idn.ascii allowed these registrations.

Can anyone point to anything that will provide hope for those hoping for a single gTLD with IDN and ASCII equivalents?

When we discuss policy, we talk about "public" issues, we leave private decisions to each individual country or organization.

For example, we discuss when，who, how and what can someone apply for an IDN TLD (policy), but we let China make its own decision whether resolve .cn and .中国 into one if China gets .中国.

[burnsinternet]

How does that work with .com, .net, etc.?

[Giant]

How does that work with .com, .net, etc.?

In the same way. VeriSign is the Registry for .com and .net, I wish they let us know their private decision sooner, but I believe they won't say anything until ICANN has a settled policy for IDN.IDN.

[burnsinternet]

I guess that is my point. I see a lot of speculation here, but no one can point to anything concrete. All I can find is:

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:08:56 -0700
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Jeff, thanks for your comment on the .test proposal.

I am afraid I cannot answer the question about whether or not DNAME will be
implemented - at least not at this time. The evaluation purpose strings are
proposed to be inserted in the root as NS-records (this is what the RSSAC
also have supported, see
http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-18jun07.htm for their
statement on this topic) and as such the evaluation will not be concerning
the DNAME RR. However, the concept of aliasing which is what I am guessing
your example is concerning, is currently a topic under discussion among the
participants in the ccNSO and GAC IDN working groups - and also have been
touched upon by the GNSO IDN working group. This latter group has not
reached an agreement on whether aliasing is wanted or not. The former group
is currently gathering issues before they are starting to answer them.

I hope this is helpful, please let me know if you have any additional
questions.

Kind regards,

Tina Dam
Director, IDN Program
ICANN

[Giant]

I guess that is my point. I see a lot of speculation here, but no one can point to anything concrete. All I can find is:

Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2007 06:08:56 -0700
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Jeff, thanks for your comment on the .test proposal.

I am afraid I cannot answer the question about whether or not DNAME will be
implemented - at least not at this time. The evaluation purpose strings are
proposed to be inserted in the root as NS-records (this is what the RSSAC
also have supported, see
http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-18jun07.htm for their
statement on this topic) and as such the evaluation will not be concerning
the DNAME RR. However, the concept of aliasing which is what I am guessing
your example is concerning, is currently a topic under discussion among the
participants in the ccNSO and GAC IDN working groups - and also have been
touched upon by the GNSO IDN working group. This latter group has not
reached an agreement on whether aliasing is wanted or not. The former group
is currently gathering issues before they are starting to answer them.

I hope this is helpful, please let me know if you have any additional
questions.

Kind regards,

Tina Dam
Director, IDN Program
ICANN

You need to distinguish "public" policy issues and "private" decisions. It's not surprised you can't find any VeriSign's private discussions in ICANN documentations

DNAME is "public" issue, it has been discussed very extensively in the last few years in the domain name community. If ICANN decides to adopt DNAME for mapping ISCII domain to IDN domain, then all Registries have a legal method to map their domains. BUT to map or not to map, each individual Registry has to decide for themselves. VeriSign can choose not to map anything to .com even when DNAME is available (if it's not mandatory by policy).

[burnsinternet]

And, now, I am firmly convinced that it will take many, many years before anything is decided and acted upon.

IDN.IDN ccTLDs will happen quickly, not gTLD.... If ever...

[Giant]

IDN.IDN ccTLDs will happen quickly, not gTLD.... If ever...

Yes, it will take time, maybe very long time, to happen. But I believe it will happen at the same time for ccTLD and gTLD.

If IDN.IDN comes late, this will help make IDN.ascii popular first --- China already started using IDN.ascii in a big scale.

If IDN.IDN comes earlier, IDN domains will have a better image.

[burnsinternet]

Aliasing vs non-aliased idn.idn is still in the discussion phase. It will take years before action. This makes idn.ascii stronger. We can build up our reserves to take on whatever happens.

[jacksonm]

Last day of September and the test strings are still not inserted into the root.

.

[mulligan]

And won't be until early october .. maybe

[Rubber Duck]

Last day of September and the test strings are still not inserted into the root.

.

Yes, I was thinking that.

I guess it is possible that somehow they have set it up in some parts but are filtering out general public access at this stage.

Anyway, they have set up the Taipei Meeting with the clear intent of launching IDN in the Far East. They will announce whatever they intend to announce whether this farcical testing has been exhaustively executed or not.

[mulligan]

Yes, I was thinking that.

I guess it is possible that somehow they have set it up in some parts but are filtering out general public access at this stage.

No, it is definetly not gonna happen in September, it's in October, but no guarantees ... I posted about this elsewhere

[Rubber Duck]

No, it is definetly not gonna happen in September, it's in October, but no guarantees ... I posted about this elsewhere

Possibly time to reconsider the issue of putting the Internet under the control of the UN! The US seems hell bent on f*cking it up for everyone else!

[Drewbert]

The US seems hell bent on f*cking it up for everyone else!

Par for the course for the current administration.

Everything they've done, they've got wrong.

The next lot get the unenviable task of putting the shit back into the horse.

[Rubber Duck]

Well, not to worry.

There are bigger issues afoot.

This is the week that the FED learns that they have no control over the direction of interest rates. Creditors set interest rates not Debtors.

The US needs lots of foreign money to finance just about everything including Federal Government. It is quite clear that the Arabs, the Chinese and the Japanese are getting pretty sick of buying low yielding Treasuries in a depreciating currency.

Up until now nobody has wanted to rock the boat too violently because that would depreciate their own investment. The problem is now that they are all watching to see who will be the first to flinch. If the Chinese think that the Japanese or the Arabs are trying to get their money out first, or if the Arabs or the Japanese have similar thoughts, it won't take much to trigger a stampede. Of course the hedge funds that have lost so much will be aiding and abetting, to recover much of their recent losses.

If that happens the Fed will be forced to raise interest rates sharply and the US gets plunged into a deep recession.

The Europeans will be similarly forced to cut their own interest rates to prevent continued uncontrolled appreciation of the Euro as these main lenders move their money to a better home. The European economy will then start to fire on all cylinders. Europe will therefore replace the US as the consumer of last resort, and temporarily at least become the new economic super-power.

[Drewbert]

We live in interesting times.

[Rubber Duck]

Well at least some of us can look forward to cheaper renewals.

[touchring]

Well, not to worry.

There are bigger issues afoot.

This is the week that the FED learns that they have no control over the direction of interest rates. Creditors set interest rates not Debtors.

The US needs lots of foreign money to finance just about everything including Federal Government. It is quite clear that the Arabs, the Chinese and the Japanese are getting pretty sick of buying low yielding Treasuries in a depreciating currency.



This is nothing new, the US Feds know what they are doing - they know that lowering interest rates 50 points will jeopardize mortgage rates, they lowered interest rates just to save Wallstreet.

This is an act of desperation. They can't save everyone, so they have to save the banks, and sacrifice the home owners.

[Rubber Duck]

This is nothing new, the US Feds know what they are doing - they know that lowering interest rates 50 points will jeopardize mortgage rates, they lowered interest rates just to save Wallstreet.

This is an act of desperation. They can't save everyone, so they have to save the banks, and sacrifice the home owners.

Frankly, it is like expecting a guy gagged and bound in the trunk to steer the car free of danger. They are all deluded. Use Britain in the 1970's as a case study and then tell me which US president is going to act the role of Thatcher.

The basic problem is that 80% of the US economy now relies on consumers squandering borrowed money. The big question is, who is going to be daft enough to lend it to them when interest rates are low and the dollar is crashing around their ears.

[touchring]

Frankly, it is like expecting a guy gagged and bound in the trunk to steer the car free of danger. They are all deluded. Use Britain in the 1970's as a case study and then tell me which US president is going to act the role of Thatcher.

The basic problem is that 80% of the US economy now relies on consumers squandering borrowed money. The big question is, who is going to be daft enough to lend it to them when interest rates are low and the dollar is crashing around their ears.



Since the debt is in dollars - they don't need people to lend them money, they will basically print so much dollars that their debt becomes meaningless.

In the meantime, oil and gold will rocket.

[Rubber Duck]

Since the debt is in dollars - they don't need people to lend them money, they will basically print so much dollars that their debt becomes meaningless.

In the meantime, oil and gold will rocket.

That is precisely the solution adopted by the Germans after World War One, which incidentally is the key reason that the Bundesbank and its successor are so cautious.

My advice would be to invest in wheelbarrows! :p

[Drewbert]

They're Live Folks!

[bwhhisc]

They're Live Folks!

OMG, how is that possible...no one has been issued the emergency icann phone number!! :p

QUOTE: "A 24-hour hot line is being established to allow ICANN to quickly suspend the test if any problems
might disrupt other domains such as “.com” and “.uk.”

http://www.circleid.com/posts/icann_sample_internationalized_domain_test/

[Drewbert]

http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement-2-09oct07.htm

[jose]

Seems to work on Opera with zero tweaks. Asking for pwds?

[Drewbert]

ICANN doing stuff backarsewards like usual.

Built the website THEN put it in DNS. Not the other way around!

Microsoft has got about 5 days to get IE7 on computers worldwide before all the IDN TLD PR gets out there and millions of IE6 users start asking why they can't get to these new fandangled websites.

[idnowner]

This could shake some sense into people cruising the DNforum.com site, when it gets posted there.

[Rubber Duck]

Timing iis impeccable with the clash with TRAFFICS. There will be lots of questions and nobody qualified to answer any of them! :p

[burnsinternet]

At the very least, another move forward. We probably won't see any problems. Next question is... DNAME? New extensions? Other?

Either way, don't expect forward movement for many, many months. Remember the stalled IE7 AU for Asia. Don't get too up or down.... Keep steady.

[Rubber Duck]

At the very least, another move forward. We probably won't see any problems. Next question is... DNAME? New extensions? Other?

Either way, don't expect forward movement for many, many months. Remember the stalled IE7 AU for Asia. Don't get too up or down.... Keep steady.

Expect limited aliasing of existing gTLDs and ccTLDs within six months possibly sooner. Maybe even for Delhi in February.

New registries using new extension? At least 2 years and probably nearer 5!

Can we confirm that IE7 is stalled for Asia and not just Japan?

[burnsinternet]

All I know is the IE7 penetration is nothing like what we hoped for.... This has been a long, frustrating haul.

Can someone list the URLs here? Can't seem to find them.

[Drewbert]

Arabic Arabic لاثم.رابتخإ xn--mgbh0fb xn--kgbechtv
Arabic Persian لاثم.یشیامزآ xn--mgbh0fb xn--hgbk6aj7f53bba
Chinese, simplified Chinese 例子.测试 xn--fsqu00a xn--0zwm56d
Chinese, traditional Chinese 例子.測試 xn--fsqu00a xn--g6w251d
Cyrillic Russian пример.испытание xn--e1afmkfd xn--80akhbyknj4f
Devanagari Hindi उदाहरण.परीकाा xn--p1b6ci4b4b3a xn--11b5bs3a9aj6g
Greek Greek παράδειγμα.δοκιμή xn--hxajbheg2az3al xn--jxalpdlp
Hangul Korean 실례.테스트 xn--9n2bp8q xn--9t4b11yi5a
Hebrew Yiddish ליפשײב.טסעט xn--fdbk5d8ap9b8a8d xn--deba0ad
Kanji Hirigana, and Katakana Japanese 例え.テスト xn--r8jz45g xn--zckzah
Tamil Tamil உதாரணம.பரிடைை xn--zkc6cc5bi7f6e xn--hlcj6aya9esc7a

I think that's the correct ones.

[Clotho]

I believe this is the list of proposed test domains:

Script Language SLD.TLD U-labels SLD A-label TLD A-label

Arabic Arabic مثال.إختبار xn--mgbh0fb xn--kgbechtv
Arabic Persian مثال.آزمایشی xn--mgbh0fb xn--hgbk6aj7f53bba
Chinese, simplified Chinese 例子.测试 xn--fsqu00a xn--0zwm56d
Chinese, traditional Chinese 例子.測試 xn--fsqu00a xn--g6w251d
Cyrillic Russian пример.испытание xn--e1afmkfd xn--80akhbyknj4f
Devanagari Hindi उदाहरण.परीकाा xn--p1b6ci4b4b3a xn--11b5bs3a9aj6g
Greek Greek παράδειγμα.δοκιμή xn--hxajbheg2az3al xn--jxalpdlp
Hangul Korean 실례.테스트 xn--9n2bp8q xn--9t4b11yi5a
Hebrew Yiddish בײשפיל.טעסט xn--fdbk5d8ap9b8a8d xn--deba0ad
Kanji Hirigana,
and Katakana
Japanese 例え.テスト xn--r8jz45g xn--zckzah
Tamil Tamil உதாரணம.பரிடைை xn--zkc6cc5bi7f6e xn--hlcj6aya9esc7a

Sorry, the formatting didn't seem to cut and paste very well. I found this list here:

http://www.icann.org/topics/idn/idn-evaluation-plan-v2-9-2-14aug07.pdf

[jacksonm]

Yes, they are definitely inserted in to the root zone file now:

ftp://ftp.internic.net/domain/root.zone.gz


.

[zenmarketing]

Burns, you need to read the article :)

The URL's are being released next week. There will be wiki's installed on them apparently.

They do seem to work now, but asking for a password.

[Drewbert]

>All I know is the IE7 penetration is nothing like what we hoped for...

Which will mean red faces at Redmond when people start asking why the big ICANN experiment isn't working for them.

And Mozilla will be bombarded with "why is xn--blah showing in my URL bar?"

Unless Mozilla has white listed these test domains already?

[jacksonm]

The URL's are being released next week.

The URLs are listed in the first page of this thread.

.

[zenmarketing]

The URLs are listed in the first page of this thread.

.

Yes, I meant access to the actual sites they're launching there (the wikis).

[Rubber Duck]

Tina has been talking about Mozilla rushing out an update! Perhaps at last they are going to stop acting like a bunch of prats over this issue.

>All I know is the IE7 penetration is nothing like what we hoped for...

Which will mean red faces at Redmond when people start asking why the big ICANN experiment isn't working for them.

And Mozilla will be bombarded with "why is xn--blah showing in my URL bar?"

Unless Mozilla has white listed these test domains already?

[jacksonm]

Tina has been talking about Mozilla rushing out an update! Perhaps at last they are going to stop acting like a bunch of prats over this issue.

They are making an update to understand punycode extensions.

There is absolutely no reason to believe that they will change their whitelisting policy. This is completely unrelated.

.

[Rubber Duck]

That's a NO then!

[mulligan]

Tina has been talking about Mozilla rushing out an update! Perhaps at last they are going to stop acting like a bunch of prats over this issue.

It's my understanding they are gonna tweak it so idn.idn will display correctly .. idn.ascii will stay as is ... FOREVER ...

[ala101]

http://xn--mgbh0fb.xn--kgbechtv/
is working .. its for Arabic (مثال.إختبار)

idn.ascii will stay as is ... FOREVER ...
if that becomes true then all our Arabic idns are rubbish..

[burnsinternet]

ccTLD will still show as unicode, right?

Don't sweat it. MS IE7 will be enough market share to make you some money.

[Drewbert]

Not necessarily.

Unfortunately too many people here don't understand DNAME or the other technical alternatives and discussion goes haywire.

Just sit back and enjoy the ride.

[g]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IDN.IDN

[555]

I am one of those that dont understand, bottom line...is it looking good? Or is it still under unknown?

[Rubber Duck]

I am one of those that dont understand, bottom line...is it looking good? Or is it still under unknown?

No it is complete mess. Just push them all to me and I will try to sort it out best I can. :p

[555]

Lol...i see you are in a good mood...i can only translate it as everything as excpected...
Just that these bold forever's scare me.

is verisign usually silent like they are on dname?
I saw nothing since the pdf with the mapping proposal.

[burnsinternet]

No one REALLY knows what will happen. No one ever REALLY did. Enjoy the ride. PPC/Adsense is still going up.

[Rubber Duck]

Basically, you either believe that Verisign is going to get kidnapped, bundled into the trunk of a car and taken for a ride down by the old docks or you don't.

[555]

Please pm me mr. Verisign address.
He will talk.

(Who the hell is using yiddish online btw?)

[burnsinternet]

ccTLDs will all probably go idn.idn but we have to deal with the ccTLD idiosynchrosies.

What will happen with gTLD will happen. We could see dot ORG and INFO go idn.idn first.... Or never.

Control what you can control. Get good domain names. Develop if you can. Do your best and good things will happen.

(Who the hell is using yiddish online btw?)

I thought I was the only one surprised by that! :p

[Drewbert]

If anyone can get away with inserting ICANN's balls into a vice, it's Verisign.

I wouldn't be too concerned about com/net IDN future if I were you. Verisign knows exactly how many xn-- registrations they'll lose if they don't win the DNAME/idn.idn argument.

[Rubber Duck]

If there was a problem, I think you would already see the sparks flying.

At the moment it is just like a giant cruise liner slipping into port under a starless sky.

Come day break you will all see what is going down.

[burnsinternet]

Yes, but what day, RD?

*sigh*

[bwhhisc]

If anyone can get away with inserting ICANN's balls into a vice, it's Verisign. I wouldn't be too concerned about com/net IDN future if I were you. Verisign knows exactly how many xn-- registrations they'll lose if they don't win the DNAME/idn.idn argument.

Everybody's planning to get a piece of this pie. Right now its a big chess game, and they are all negotiating their shares.
In the end they will make the number of extensions as big as they can to get as many registrations as possible.

Just as the ascii market slows in growth, here is a whole new market 10x bigger than the first. IDN.com will certainly
retain market position and value or there are going to be some po'd customers who have paid their registration fees for
up to 8 years moving to file a huge class action lawsuit. That will only further complicate and slow things down for years.

[sbe18]

Verisign knows exactly how many dot com, dot nets, dot DE, dot JP, dot KR and dot CN there are with XN--

idn.cn as idn.idn already works in China.......
and massive growth stats are evident for ccTLD and gTLD's

www.aptld.org/dubaiJune2007/09%20VeriSign%20-%20IDN%20Market%20Trends%20for%20Dubai%20APTLD%20Meeting.pdf

[burnsinternet]

Very interesting....



+
Worldwide Market Share of IDN-aware Browsers:


▪
Source - W3 School: Up to 46%


▪
Source - Net Applications: Up to 36%


▪
This number may vary by sources and regions.


+
IE 7 shows faster adoption than IE 6.


▪
Currently gaining additional 3+% market share each month,
16.4% as of Feb’07, since its release in Nov’06 (SOURCE: W3 School)



+
“IE7-upgradable” XP has around 93% worldwide OS market
share.



+
Windows Vista, released in early 2007, natively supports IDNs.





Snapshot of IDN Registrations: Q1 2005 – Q1 2007




ccTLDs

Q1 2005: 890,738
Q1 2007: 1,316,113

Other gTLDs
Q1 2005: 69,006
Q1 2007: 31,015




COM/NET

Q1 2005: 398,659
Q1 2007: 807,188

[mulligan]

Verisign (Or whoever is given control) will undoubtedly find a way to squeeze more money out of us and those who have already registered xn--.com, xn--.net etc

Which may mean that we have to register all our IDNs again in whatever they decide to 'translate' .com, .net etc to

Don't be surprised if this is what happens and there is another landrush all over again. In fact be thankfull if they give current registrants the option of first pick from their currently held domains.
I for one am on the fence about whether they will even use .com or .net at all .. afterall that is not going to make Verisign (Or whoever) rich and the financially benificial option would be to invent a new extension for IDNs.
Yes, I know all about how ingrained .com and .net are into the world's psyche but if I was Verisign I would be pushing for a whole new extension as that is going to inflate the bottom line a lot more with all those new registrations.

ccTLDs are something else and it will be up to the countries involved to have their say .. that I think will take longer than TLDs to sort out.

I know this isn't what people want to hear or think about but if we think these people are going to succumb to the wishes of a handful of people just because they are invested in IDNs then think again. Sure ICANN will say they want what is beneficial for the countries and languages involved and to a certain extent I believe them .. and if that coincides with what we want then well and good .. if not then suck it up..
ICANN are NOT interested in how our domains are doing with PPC or adsense, they couldn't give a shit ..

It's pointless us speculating as to what these people will do and while talking amongst ourselves is cathartic it doesn't get us anywhere ... I asked for people to submit question for the person in charge of idn.idn but a very few came up with anything .. they are they ones who hold the answers to your speculation so get your questions in today!

[touchring]

In fact be thankfull if they give current registrants the option of first pick from their currently held domains.
I for one am on the fence about whether they will even use .com or .net at all .. afterall that is not going to make Verisign (Or whoever) rich and the financially benificial option would be to invent a new extension for IDNs.
Yes, I know all about how ingrained .com and .net are into the world's psyche but if I was Verisign I would be pushing for a whole new extension as that is going to inflate the bottom line a lot more with all those new registrations.


New extensions? We been through this many times, info, .biz, .moby....

What will .com be for chinese? .gongsi? The chinese already hijacked this. Even then, the chinese .gongsi is like a 4th class citizen to 1st class .cn.

What do i make out of this google trend? .com is hot like hell, .cn is flat despite a much lower base? What do you make out of it?

http://www.google.com/trends?q=.com%2C+.cn%2C+.%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%2C+.%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8&ctab=0&geo=CN&geor=all&date=all&sort=0

[Rubber Duck]

Beware the Body Snatchers are no the move. It seems they have junked Touchring's carcass and have now moved in on Mulligan. Or am I missing something?

Verisign (Or whoever is given control) will undoubtedly find a way to squeeze more money out of us and those who have already registered xn--.com, xn--.net etc

Which may mean that we have to register all our IDNs again in whatever they decide to 'translate' .com, .net etc to

Don't be surprised if this is what happens and there is another landrush all over again. In fact be thankfull if they give current registrants the option of first pick from their currently held domains.
I for one am on the fence about whether they will even use .com or .net at all .. afterall that is not going to make Verisign (Or whoever) rich and the financially benificial option would be to invent a new extension for IDNs.
Yes, I know all about how ingrained .com and .net are into the world's psyche but if I was Verisign I would be pushing for a whole new extension as that is going to inflate the bottom line a lot more with all those new registrations.

ccTLDs are something else and it will be up to the countries involved to have their say .. that I think will take longer than TLDs to sort out.

I know this isn't what people want to hear or think about but if we think these people are going to succumb to the wishes of a handful of people just because they are invested in IDNs then think again. Sure ICANN will say they want what is beneficial for the countries and languages involved and to a certain extent I believe them .. and if that coincides with what we want then well and good .. if not then suck it up..
ICANN are NOT interested in how our domains are doing with PPC or adsense, they couldn't give a shit ..

It's pointless us speculating as to what these people will do and while talking amongst ourselves is cathartic it doesn't get us anywhere ... I asked for people to submit question for the person in charge of idn.idn but a very few came up with anything .. they are they ones who hold the answers to your speculation so get your questions in today!

[bwhhisc]

I know all about how ingrained .com and .net are into the world's psyche but if I was Verisign I would be pushing for a whole new extension as that is going to inflate the bottom line a lot more with all those new registrations.
Not a chance! Follow the footsteps of ascii. They are going to make as MANY extensions available as money can buy.
They are not going to screw those that have paid registration fees for up to 8 years or they are going to be up to their
asses and arses in class action lawsuits.

This is their system, their product and have charged annually for the services. People have spent money to develop,
the system works great...it has just been missing the browser support. If they DNAME, no problem and these longtime
customers are happy. There are tens of thousands of websites tied into their idn.com...they will have to compen$ate
all of those if they wish to cancel, revoke or replace their idn.com, idn.net name with something other. But that could
run the risk of "damages". Very small chance of that happening unless they want to get into massive lawsuits and
years of litigation to sort it all out. They have built a gravy train, why mess it up?

My assessment is that you will get IDN in every flavor and variety you can imagine that fits into the DNS system.
Then everyone gets a piece of the action, marketing is once again king to let the consumer decide what they want,
.com holders and .cc holders can :) , the various cc registries can :) and for everyone, the pie don't get no bigger
than that. Everyone kindasorta wins in this scenerio both financially and politically. Any other solution leaves
unhappy players and a political mess for icann to deal with and to be criticized over and over.

Just does not make sense not to keep in place or "reward" the idn.com holders (dname). Or give idn.idn to the .cc holders.
Or just create more extensions idn.idn to go along with .com, .net .jp etc.

[jacksonm]

Follow the footsteps of ascii. They are going to make as MANY extensions available as money can buy. They are not going to screw those that have paid registration fees for up to 8 years or they are going to be up to their asses in class action lawsuits.

This is their system, their product and have charged annually for the services. There are tens of thousands of websites tied into their idn.com...they will have to compen$ate all of those if they wish to cancel, revoke or replace their idn.com, idn.net name with something other. Very small chance of that happening and if they try get ready for years of legal sorting out.


They have a pretty solid defense that the IDN system was never really announced as being "official". I think they will try to screw us.

Besides, the money they would lose from class actions would pale in comparison to the money they would gain in new sales.

I am expecting the worst and hoping for the best.

.

[bwhhisc]

They have a pretty solid defense that the IDN system was never really announced as being "official". I think they will try to screw us.
Besides, the money they would lose from class actions would pale in comparison to the money they would gain in new sales. I am expecting the worst and hoping for the best..
How would they make "more" money than having as many extensions as possible out there for registration.
And I mean every combination of .ascii and .idn. Besides, for many they may not want .idn, they may want their .com.

[g]

why they cancel , revoke or replace idn.com

I think they will simply leave it as it is and they will introduce idn.idn as a new extension open for new registrations

[Rubber Duck]

why they cancel , revoke or replace idn.com

I think they will simply leave it as it is and they will introduce idn.idn as a new extension open for new registrations

Dot Com is going nowhere.

Anything that is included in the root that doesn't resolved to the Verisign registry is not dot Com. It is only ever going to be recognised at dot Com if it is aliased to the real thing. Obviously ICANN will permit translations that resolve to the real thing, but they have already stated that will not allow anything that is confusingly similar.

I think the Muggles have been reading too much Harry Potter!

[mulligan]

Not a chance! Follow the footsteps of ascii. They are going to make as MANY extensions available as money can buy.
They are not going to screw those that have paid registration fees for up to 8 years or they are going to be up to their
asses and arses in class action lawsuits.
The likelyhood of them cancelling current registrations of xn--.com, xn--.net are low to zero ... But they are not going to implement a system to suit us, the holders of xn--.com, xn--.net .. they will implement a system of idn.idn but we will have no claim to those unless they are feeling generous and give us first refusal on them or have sites or businesses already established on them .. which means another landrush .. and confusion among interent users who won't know which site they are visiting if they go to xn--.com or idn.idn .. 2 totally different sites but 'meaning' the same thing as a domain.
This senario is not ideal and I can't see them doing that as the internet will be very confusing for average users .. so what are they gonna do?

As was said the profit from a whole new batch of registrations will outweigh the cost of any suit brought against them .. which I can't see happening as they will just let us keep our xn--.com while releasing other idn.idn extensions .. that may or may not be the translation of .com, .net etc (I have my doubts whether they will even translate .com and .net to all other languages)

It will be interesting to see how they approach this and any way you slice it it's not going to be pretty.
On another note .. they have not once approached us and asked for an opinion or any input .. why is that?
We missed our chance to approach them with a collective voice to present our case and opinions in a logical and informed manner with representitives from a whole slew of countries that idn.idn are necessary for (This does not surprise me as the apathy displayed by a lot of people has been shown here in the past but they will be the one's shouting loudest when / if it doesn't work out)

[jacksonm]

How would they make "more" money than having as many extensions as possible out there for registration.
And I mean every combination of .ascii and .idn. Besides, for many they may not want .idn, they may want their .com.

Err. I was just a bit confused.

What I meant to say was that I highly doubt that IDN.com will ever be anything more than IDN.com, e.g. aliasing for free will never happen even with the threat of class action lawsuits.

.

[Rubber Duck]

Err. I was just a bit confused.

What I meant to say was that I highly doubt that IDN.com will ever be anything more than IDN.com, e.g. aliasing for free will never happen even with the threat of class action lawsuits.

.

DNAME was a Verisign concept. They have pushed the idea. This is their baby.

Of course they will give aliasing for free. Once the aliases are registered with ICANN there is absolutely nothing more for them to do, but it is going to greatly assist the adoption of IDN.com, even if most people still use the ASCII extension.

[domainguru]

Anything that is included in the root that doesn't resolved to the Verisign registry is not dot Com. It is only ever going to be recognised at dot Com if it is aliased to the real thing. Obviously ICANN will permit translations that resolve to the real thing, but they have already stated that will not allow anything that is confusingly similar.



RD raises a crucial point. ICANN have stated repeatedly that the confusingly similar aspect is very important.

So bearing that in mind, there is no way they could sanction, for instance, IDN.คอม (.com in Thai), as a new gTLD. It would either have to be:

1) Aliased to IDN.com or,
2) Not sanctioned

I don't see any other alternatives, but perhaps there are other solutions....

[Rubber Duck]

And that is precisely why we are not hearing a squeek out of Verisign.

RD raises a crucial point. ICANN have stated repeatedly that the confusingly similar aspect is very important.

So bearing that in mind, there is no way they could sanction, for instance, IDN.คอม (.com in Thai), as a new gTLD. It would either have to be:

1) Aliased to IDN.com or,
2) Not sanctioned

I don't see any other alternatives, but perhaps there are other solutions....

[touchring]

RD raises a crucial point. ICANN have stated repeatedly that the confusingly similar aspect is very important.

So bearing that in mind, there is no way they could sanction, for instance, IDN.คอม (.com in Thai), as a new gTLD. It would either have to be:

1) Aliased to IDN.com or,
2) Not sanctioned

I don't see any other alternatives, but perhaps there are other solutions....


A question: Is .company also .com?

[jacksonm]

DNAME was a Verisign concept. They have pushed the idea. This is their baby.

Of course they will give aliasing for free. Once the aliases are registered with ICANN there is absolutely nothing more for them to do, but it is going to greatly assist the adoption of IDN.com, even if most people still use the ASCII extension.

I mean that I doubt ICANN will ever provide aliasing as they don't gain any money from it. I have full faith in greed.

Alternatively, ICANN charges registries $$$$$$$$ per year per alhas in the root. Registries jack up prices to recoup and then some. Registries won't pay high aliasing costs for minor languages...

.

[domainguru]

A question: Is .company also .com?

Don't quite understand the question. Just to clarify for Thai:

.คอม is the transliteration of ".com" into the Thai language. It has nothing to do with the Thai word for company. But:

1) .com doesn't stand for "company" anyway
2) The Thais I have spoken to are only interested in .คอม as an alternative to ASCII ".com". They don't yet want to create new TLDs in Thai, but they definitely do want to write ".com" in Thai and therefore have "totally Thai" domains.

So for the Thai market, aliasing is the only viable solution that will achieve what Thais want from IDN.IDN. But I would say that wouldn't I :)

But for markets where the locals were interested in creating IDN TLDs that weren't just simple transliterations of ".com", other dynamics come into place.

Lots of talk about China on this forum, but I don't hear much about Japanese, and what Japanese language TLDs would be most requested. Would they want ".com" transliterated into Japanese for instance?

[touchring]

I mean that I doubt ICANN will ever provide aliasing as they don't gain any money from it. I have full faith in greed.

Alternatively, ICANN charges registries $$$$$$$$ per year per alias in the root. Registries jack up prices to recoup and then some. Registries won't pay high aliasing costs for minor languages...

.


Can't imagine any registrar willing to take up .weird.

[Explorer]

RD raises a crucial point. ICANN have stated repeatedly that the confusingly similar aspect is very important.

So bearing that in mind, there is no way they could sanction, for instance, IDN.คอม (.com in Thai), as a new gTLD. It would either have to be:

1) Aliased to IDN.com or,
2) Not sanctioned

I don't see any other alternatives, but perhaps there are other solutions....

I don't see anything other than DNAME for .com and .net either.

For example, россия.com AND россия.ком can not be administered by 2 entities. They also can not be owned by 2 different people. So, if there is a россия.ком, it will be administered AND aliased to россия.com. That's Verisign's solution to IDN.IDN.

[domainguru]

I mean that I doubt ICANN will ever provide aliasing as they don't gain any money from it. I have full faith in greed.

Alternatively, ICANN charges registries $$$$$$$$ per year per alias in the root. Registries jack up prices to recoup and then some. Registries won't pay high aliasing costs for minor languages...

.

If ICANN weren't going to make money, I might well agree with you. But the point is they will make money, and lots of it. Remember ICANN make money on every domain registered.

By allowing aliasing for .com and .net into local languages, they would be helping to create domains that locals would find really desirable, and hence create new markets.

[Rubber Duck]

I don't see anything other than DNAME for .com and .net either.

For example, россия.com AND россия.ком can not be administered by 2 entities. They also can not be owned by 2 different people. So, if there is a россия.ком, it will be administered AND aliased to россия.com. That's Verisign's solution to IDN.IDN.

Yes, but this can be done in the Root without DNAMES. It is only going to be a problem with DNAMES if the number of TLDs and the number of languages for each becomes very large, as I understand it.

[drbiohealth]

1. It is clear that .com and .com(IDN) cannot be operated by two different companies due to "confusing similarity". China's case here appears different here as .com(IDN) is already being operated by a local company?

2. It is also clear that IDN.com cannot peacefully coexist with IDN.com(IDN) due to website spoofing.

3. It appears that the only feasible solution is to map .com with .com(IDN).

4. Who has the first right to IDN.com(IDN) then, the owner of IDN.com or ASCII.com? I guess the owner of IDN.com wins here because IDN.com bears closest similarity to IDN.com(IDN) in the eyes of the local folks and that is why they should be mapped together to avoid confusion. Thanks to America that nearly all ascii.coms are registered by entities based there.

[touchring]

1. It is clear that .com and .com(IDN) cannot be operated by two different companies due to "confusing similarity". China's case here appears different here as .com(IDN) is already being operated by a local company?

2. It is also clear that IDN.com cannot peacefully coexist with IDN.com(IDN) due to website spoofing.


Unlike Japanese, Korean, Russian and Thai, there's no chinese translation for .com. The Chinese word for .com is .com. We can argue over this for another 20 years, and the outcome will still be the same.

[drbiohealth]

I guess you meant transliteration of .com? Didn't Chinese registry sometime back start IDN.IDN, which mapped .com.cn to .com/gongsi(IDN)? May be I am mistaken. I was under the impression that it was mainly China's IDN initiative that woke up ICANN.


Unlike Japanese, Korean, Russian and Thai, there's no chinese translation for .com. The Chinese word for .com is .com. We can argue over this for another 20 years, and the outcome will still be the same.

[Rubber Duck]

I guess you meant transliteration of .com? Didn't Chinese registry sometime back start IDN.IDN, which mapped .com.cn to .com/gongsi(IDN)? May be I am mistaken. I was under the impression that it was mainly China's IDN initiative that woke up ICANN.

Transliteration is bizarre concept when you have no alphabet.

[touchring]

I guess you meant transliteration of .com? Didn't Chinese registry sometime back start IDN.IDN, which mapped .com.cn to .com/gongsi(IDN)? May be I am mistaken. I was under the impression that it was mainly China's IDN initiative that woke up ICANN.


No, .com.cn is not mapped to .gongsi.cn.

Also, there is no idn.com.cn.

.com itself is not a word and has no meaning, so you can only do a transliteration.

[Explorer]

No, .com.cn is not mapped to .gongsi.cn.

Also, there is no idn.com.cn.

.com itself is not a word and has no meaning, so you can only do a transliteration.

China is a special case. But everything else (when it comes to Verisign+ICANN) seems to be making more and more sense.

[Rubber Duck]

China is a special case. But everything else (when it comes to Verisign+ICANN) seems to be making more and more sense.

The thing is in a direct confrontation between dot com and dot gonsi, there can only be one winner. If there is no agreement, then gongsi don't go into the root unless the Chinese put it in under dot CN at the second level. Dot com which is the thing everyone is trying to navigate to is already there as ASCII, so that will be what people continue to use. Verisign is very much in a win-win situation, which is precisely where they should be when all they are doing is defending their own trademark. If there are already representation of dot com in other scripts then rationally Verisign has intellectual property rights over all of these.

[Explorer]

Verisign is very much in a win-win situation, which is precisely where they should be when all they are doing is defending their own trademark. If there are already representation of dot com in other scripts then rationally Verisign has intellectual property rights over all of these.

Yep, just as Pepsi has a right to Пепси in Russian.

[idnowner]

Any solution other than DNAME, or otherwise providing IDN.IDN to IDN.com owners, would seem to create MANY serious problems - between IDN.IDN and IDN.com owners. It would also go against their "confusingly similar" statements, in which case they might have to cancel all IDN.coms, which seems highly unlikely. Also, think about the outrage of people who purchased IDN.coms and IDN.nets on the aftermarket for $10K and up.

The solution may have actually been decided back around 1997. It would be nice to have official word on what the solution will be, but maybe they've got to go through a number of additional political hoops before they make it official. If and when they make it official that IDN.com will be IDN.IDN, then values of IDN.com should go through the roof.

In the possibility that IDN.com and IDN.IDN are both allowed, as different domains, owned by different owners, then IDN.com should at least get significant traffic - but I think that the existance of IDN.com and IDN.IDN, as different domains, is an unlikely scenario.

[bwhhisc]

In the possibility that IDN.com and IDN.IDN are both allowed, as different domains, owned by different owners, then IDN.com should at least get significant traffic - but I think that the existance of IDN.com and IDN.IDN, as different domains, is an unlikely scenario.
Some people that "bought" idn.com just may prefer to keep it idn.com.
Almost for sure idn.cc is going to get some changes to become idn.idn, and that is part of what the root tests are all about.

[touchring]

Have you seen this?

http://www.google.com/trends?q=.com%2C+.jp%2C++%E3%83%89%E3%83%83%E3%83%88%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A0++%2C+.%E6%97%A5%E6%9C%AC&ctab=0&geo=JP&geor=all&date=all&sort=0

For .cn, at least, it had some Google trends.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=.com%2C+.cn%2C++.%E4%B8%AD%E5%9B%BD%2C+.%E5%85%AC%E5%8F%B8&ctab=0&geo=CN&geor=all&date=all&sort=0

[Giant]

- but I think that the existance of IDN.com and IDN.IDN, as different domains, is an unlikely scenario.

Right, except when VeriSign wants to commit suicide.

When VeriSign is allowed to create IDN alias for COM, it won't cost VeriSign much to have one and the alias will help Dot Com become even more KING. As the internet is transforming the world into ONE, the world needs only one true TLD --- Dot Com (and its alias), the rest are just peripheral.

[burnsinternet]

It's pointless us speculating as to what these people will do and while talking amongst ourselves is cathartic it doesn't get us anywhere ...

I agree that is can be good, clean fun to discuss this week after week, but Mulligan is pointing out the same thing I have repeated.

They don't care about what we want. They don't care about our 'outcry' if it doesn't go the way we want. They probably don't care about theoretical class action lawsuits. They never promised us a rose garden.

If we get what we want: Celebrate. If not, deal with it. Cry. Sue. Drink heavily. All three. Whatever....

We have some nice domain names. They will be valuable. Don't get greedy.

[Explorer]

Looks like they are live and resolving to a wiki page.

[touchring]

Right, except when VeriSign wants to commit suicide.

When VeriSign is allowed to create IDN alias for COM, it won't cost VeriSign much to have one and the alias will help Dot Com become even more KING. As the internet is transforming the world into ONE, the world needs only one true TLD --- Dot Com (and its alias), the rest are just peripheral.


Isn't this decided by ICANN? As i understand, Verisign is just another player. .org for example, is under a different company?

[Drewbert]

The IDN test domains were removed from the root zone late October 2013. I didn't notice any mention of it anywhere.

[idnowner]

The IDN test domains were removed from the root zone late October 2013. I didn't notice any mention of it anywhere.

Darn! And I was heavily invested in the new .TEST gTLD....

math.test
science.test
DNA.test
urine.test