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goidn
10th September 2007, 01:23 PM
Monty owns i-phone.com ++

You'd be surprised what else he owns:: Lotsa idn

IDNCowboy
10th September 2007, 01:39 PM
Monty owns i-phone.com ++

You'd be surprised what else he owns:: Lotsa idn
list

jacksonm
10th September 2007, 01:44 PM
Monty owns i-phone.com ++

You'd be surprised what else he owns:: Lotsa idn


List.

I hope some of these rich dudes will be lightening my load sometime soon :-)

.

Rubber Duck
10th September 2007, 01:51 PM
Unlike the Pump and Dump hoists surrounding dot Mobi, there is an eery still around IDN. Dont let that fool you into believing nothing is happening.

goidn
10th September 2007, 01:51 PM
There no clear TM on the iPhone name, even after $100 mil spent by Apple, of which #37.5m for the domain itself.

jacksonm
10th September 2007, 01:59 PM
Unlike the Pump and Dump hoists surrounding dot Mobi, there is an eery still around IDN. Dont let that fool you into believing nothing is happening.


Every time I post a sales thread, nothing happens! And these are domains which are rated between 8 and 10 by Arabic people...

In fact, the sales inside this forum have sailed to a grinding halt since the past 3 months. People don't offer anything anymore except really crappy domains, and when something good is offered nobody bites unless you give it away. But they have no problem giving lots of money to Snap for domains of lesser quality...

.

mulligan
10th September 2007, 03:01 PM
But they have no problem giving lots of money to Snap for domains of lesser quality...
This is as old as this forum .. some are under the misguided impression that if it is not worth paying the renewal fee for, gets dropped, snap pick it up ... suddenly it acquires this mysterious 'glow' of imminent wealth.

Rubber Duck
10th September 2007, 03:24 PM
Every time I post a sales thread, nothing happens! And these are domains which are rated between 8 and 10 by Arabic people...

In fact, the sales inside this forum have sailed to a grinding halt since the past 3 months. People don't offer anything anymore except really crappy domains, and when something good is offered nobody bites unless you give it away. But they have no problem giving lots of money to Snap for domains of lesser quality...

.

Yes, and if you look back through this thread you will find one prime example of a guy that has only ever really only ever bought from Snapnames bleating abou the fact he didnt get the chance to buy privately. Trust me, most domainers including IDNers are complete tossers. Hold your domains and wait for the traffic. Local markets aftermarkets will eventually emerge. Maybe some top ASCII guys will see the light and invest heavily, but dont lose faith, the end of the journey is just around the next bend. The Holy Grail is the traffic, and those with the best names will be seeing evidence of that emerging.

burnsinternet
10th September 2007, 03:36 PM
We have all had this same complaint. No one wants to sell a 'premium' and no one wants to pay for one. Good names go unsold, even at low prices. Same as it ever was....

I "gave away" my last good one to Bill and that was that. At least it went to a buddy. I keep or drop. No more auctions.

Rubber Duck
10th September 2007, 03:45 PM
Same here. If at some future date we cannot meet renewals we will drop the second rate stuff, but don´t hold your breath. When was my last attempt at an auction?

How long can a man keep his composure when everyone just takes the piss? The number of times I have handed out list to prospective buyers not even to recieve an acknowledgement just defies belief.

This is about quality and we will hold the quality.

goidn
10th September 2007, 03:51 PM
Back to Monty.

A few year back I uploaded 100+ names to Moniker.
There were 7 generics among them.
The next day I got 7 offers on those.

I sold 1 one of them. The other 6 are still 'frozen', meaning they're invisible to the surfers and no one can bid on them.

I got friendly with one of the reps who's no longer there. We went surfing & had a drink.
Here's his story:
That one name was bought by Monty, or rather by one of the fake LLPs he set up in Pompano Beach.
And Monty was the one who bid on all those generics.
As a matter of fact, Monty scans all new portfolios and bids on everything he likes.

If there is no deal on a particular domain he makes that name 'invisible' till he gets it.

There are currently thousands of 'invisible' names on Moniker.
In fact, Moniker operates as a private net where Monty swims.

Occasionally he loses a deal. Apparently, he is a cheapskate & doesn't like to hire lawyers.
He represents himself every time there is a conflict with a client.

mulligan
10th September 2007, 05:31 PM
Yes, and if you look back through this thread you will find one prime example of a guy that has only ever really only ever bought from Snapnames bleating abou the fact he didnt get the chance to buy privately.

Who?

The number of times I have handed out list to prospective buyers not even to recieve an acknowledgement just defies belief..

I stopped giving out lists a long time ago

I actually planted a few .com's in a few lists just to see if the .net's would be picked off .. whadaya know ...

thegenius1
10th September 2007, 06:16 PM
Back to Monty.

A few year back I uploaded 100+ names to Moniker.
There were 7 generics among them.
The next day I got 7 offers on those.

I sold 1 one of them. The other 6 are still 'frozen', meaning they're invisible to the surfers and no one can bid on them.

I got friendly with one of the reps who's no longer there. We went surfing & had a drink.
Here's his story:
That one name was bought by Monty, or rather by one of the fake LLPs he set up in Pompano Beach.
And Monty was the one who bid on all those generics.
As a matter of fact, Monty scans all new portfolios and bids on everything he likes.

If there is no deal on a particular domain he makes that name 'invisible' till he gets it.

There are currently thousands of 'invisible' names on Moniker.
In fact, Moniker operates as a private net where Monty swims.

Occasionally he loses a deal. Apparently, he is a cheapskate & doesn't like to hire lawyers.
He represents himself every time there is a conflict with a client.

Interesting

alpha
10th September 2007, 07:29 PM
Every time I post a sales thread, nothing happens! And these are domains which are rated between 8 and 10 by Arabic people...

In fact, the sales inside this forum have sailed to a grinding halt since the past 3 months. People don't offer anything anymore except really crappy domains, and when something good is offered nobody bites unless you give it away. But they have no problem giving lots of money to Snap for domains of lesser quality...

.

Just been having a catch up reading.

so to summarise... we are where we were a few months ago, except the morale is in the toilet.

interesting.

so is it time to bail out yet?

jacksonm
10th September 2007, 08:06 PM
so is it time to bail out yet?


According to Dabsi, it is - except strangely, she's not selling.

.

bwhhisc
10th September 2007, 08:21 PM
Just been having a catch up reading.
so to summarise... we are where we were a few months ago, except the morale is in the toilet. interesting. so is it time to bail out yet?
Guess this is final shakeout period to seperate the men from the boys.
So at the same time probably worth going back thru all that has transpired over that past decade with ICANN and Verisign working to bring the IDN system forward in a plan that would allow it to operate in the existing DNS structure. The system was designed with a lot of input by some pretty keen engineers. The unicode/punycode system that was designed from the bottom up, with intention to give maximum flexibilty and simplicity to encomapassing near unlimited loads of languages and scripts. And what made sense was that the entire system operates on the basis of the existing a-z, 1-9,0 and- that has already proven sound and workable.

What I see now are the "back seat" drivers throwing out ideas and alternate schemes. Some of it might work, and I think ways to accomodate idn.idn are viable for some languages. And to be politically correct ICANN is giving "them" their fair share of face time and that has included ongoing and upcoming trials and tests. No doubt the holy grail of the intenet would be to put unlimited foreign language scripts and urls into the root, but it is doubtful that any scenerio like that would ever be supported whole hog for all languages and scripts. There is far to much complexity and unknowns in even contemplating this across the board. And politcally many languages will have to be left out or put on the back burner for future consideration. How will that be determined?

burnsinternet
10th September 2007, 09:27 PM
Dabsi is not bailing out and only a few here have even considered that.

Some here consider only non-Latin IDN to be worth anything. She proposes the opposite view.

One thing that haunts me is that, rather than acknowledging the argument and debating it, most here simply toss ad hominems at Dabsi.

We are all in this together. Many of us started in 2005 and earlier - much earlier. I believe that we simply should discuss the possibility that idn.idn may bring about a new round of goldrushes for a host of new gTLDs.

We saw how .biz and .org launched round after round of language-specific goldrushes. Why would ICANN not do this? It is guaranteed money. Giving away the gTLD to current IDN holders would add nothing to the bottom line compared to launching wave after wave of country specific dot com and then dot net registrations. They are not shy about adding new extensions. They are building support (with our help) for IDNs. We should consider this a real possibility.

If this does happen, some here claim that dot com is a global brand and that this would have no impact. Others believe that these separate gTLDs would dilute the value of ascii gTLDs and that development would be key to success. Finally, some here believe that idn gTLDs would sound the death knell for all but Latin IDNs.

I believe that all these opinions can coexist, in space, if not time. Just as the acceptance of IDN has been measured in years (for many reasons), idn.ascii was first on the block and the global dot com brand will always some success. That success may wane over time, but ascii dot com will undoubtedly remain a global force. The same argument has to be made for ascii.ascii domains to be logically sound. At some point, development will also play a role in the success of a domain and extension. At some point in the future, idn.idn (as separate gTLDs) would have the upper hand against idn.ascii, just as idn.ascii may have the advantage over ascii.ascii now.

I would prefer to call this a nightmare scenario. However, it is possible. If we don't discuss it here, where can we discuss it? We all deserve to know the risks. We are also the best people to discuss the solutions. For example, have your 'buy' lists ready for idn.idn - just in case. If we see it happen with one language, we know it will happen for all.

We are some of the best people in this business and we are the most able to make a killing if the worst happens. We can pair up the idn.idn with our own best idn.ascii domains. We can sell the idn.ascii to the idn.idn holders.

Take a lesson from New Orleans. We should, at the very least, be prepared.

alpha
10th September 2007, 09:56 PM
interesting post Burns.

I guess the question I should be asking is how do you measure success, and failure - and when do you call it?

Either you keep renewing for the rest of your life, muttering "not long now", or you have some sort of cut off.

Lets face it, if you have a self sufficient portfolio, then yes you can sit back and wait for ever, why not?

but if you haven't, and many haven't, when do you call it a day? there has to be some measure right? some deadline?

I'm no pessimist, but i'm no rose tinted glasses wearing optomist either... bottom line is only a fool keeps running forward without a game plan, without an end game.

I'm just curious as to what peoples end game looks like..

bwhhisc
10th September 2007, 10:07 PM
[QUOTE=burnsinternet] We can pair up the idn.idn with our own best idn.ascii domains. We can sell the idn.ascii to the idn.idn holders. [QUOTE]

What is so terrible about idn.com co-existing with idn.idn.
Dozens of extensions work side by side today, why is truly so different?

domainguru
10th September 2007, 10:07 PM
interesting post Burns.

I guess the question I should be asking is how do you measure success, and failure - and when do you call it?

Either you keep renewing for the rest of your life, muttering "not long now", or you have some sort of cut off.

Lets face it, if you have a self sufficient portfolio, then yes you can sit back and wait for ever, why not?

but if you haven't, and many haven't, when do you call it a day? there has to be some measure right? some deadline?

I'm no pessimist, but i'm no rose tinted glasses wearing optomist either... bottom line is only a fool keeps running forward without a game plan, without an end game.

I'm just curious as to what peoples end game looks like..

The game only started when IE7 was released in 2006 and IDNs, for the vast majority of people outside this forum, will only become more than a "future technology" when nearly all the people on the planet can type them into their browser. And in most markets, that of course relies on IE7 adoption reaching critical mass.

Once that happens, you then have to wait for IDN sites to be launched, publicity to happen about this "great new technology" etc etc.

So for my money, we are still 2-3 years away from making strategic decisions about our IDN portfolio and what the "end user" really thinks about them, and what their value will eventually become.

For now, renew, and absorb the pain.

zenmarketing
10th September 2007, 10:21 PM
First of all -- everyone should stop spreading unsubstantiated rumors about someone in a public forum.

Now as for what we have started to discuss...

The end game for many IDN investors seems to be waiting for the beginning of the game.

I admit IDN.IDN worries me, especially because it is largely out of our hands as to how that will play out.

If the browser support had been out there much earlier, then IDN.ascii would have had a bit of chance to get a first-mover advantage, and IDN.IDN would be less troubling.

Slowly, the browser support is coming. Slowly, the traffic is building. Slowly, the awareness is getting out in local markets.

ICANN is the unpredictable variable here.

Everyone who is really interested in IDN.IDN should read this:
http://idn.org/IDN_ccTLD%27s

This is what ICANN is looking at right now as they decide what to do with IDN.IDN in the ccTLD's.

Perhaps we should answer some of these questions for them?

burnsinternet
10th September 2007, 10:25 PM
First of all -- everyone should stop spreading unsubstantiated rumors about someone in a public forum.


Huh?

bwhhisc
10th September 2007, 10:44 PM
Perhaps we should answer some of these questions for them?

The biggest hurdle will be the politics as they sort out giving each country what "they" want from the internet.
The Chinese alone may tie this subject up for years.

burnsinternet
10th September 2007, 10:46 PM
interesting post Burns.

I guess the question I should be asking is how do you measure success, and failure - and when do you call it?

Either you keep renewing for the rest of your life, muttering "not long now", or you have some sort of cut off.

Lets face it, if you have a self sufficient portfolio, then yes you can sit back and wait for ever, why not?

but if you haven't, and many haven't, when do you call it a day? there has to be some measure right? some deadline?

I'm no pessimist, but i'm no rose tinted glasses wearing optomist either... bottom line is only a fool keeps running forward without a game plan, without an end game.

I'm just curious as to what peoples end game looks like..

Agreed. No one seems to be willing to discuss this. Just because we discuss it does not make it actually happen.

I have seen some good portfolios drop quietly because the registrant was overextended. I could tell you some stories! I think that everyone here needs to be aware that his or her portfolio may not be self-sustaining for a few years.

You need to know what to cut and what to save. If all else failed and your IDNs are not sustainable (if you lost your job, your income decreased, registration costs leaped ten times per year per domain, whatever), what would you save? This might also be the list of 'buys' for idn.idn in the doomsday scenario. It might also be the list of IDNs you would never ever sell.

Everyone needs to think about this. If you refuse to plan for the future, you are not being financially responsible.

mdw
10th September 2007, 10:47 PM
goidn - hopefully you're not in the same (US) jurisdiction or you're very likely to face a libel suit. Examples of some of those thousands of invisible domains might bolster your case, but restraint is surely the wiser path.

Burns your post was indeed provocative in a different way of course, and it seems to have started a discussion about risks. I think that if there are more IDN landrushes for IDN.IDN the folks here are gonna be the beneficiaries. Same winners either way!

zenmarketing
10th September 2007, 10:53 PM
Huh?

Burns, this was not directed at you, this was directed at goidn's unsubstantiated claims about Monte.

burnsinternet
11th September 2007, 01:06 AM
[quote=burnsinternet] We can pair up the idn.idn with our own best idn.ascii domains. We can sell the idn.ascii to the idn.idn holders. [quote]

What is so terrible about idn.com co-existing with idn.idn.
Dozens of extensions work side by side today, why is truly so different?

They can coexist. I would rather have both if I can.

Burns, this was not directed at you, this was directed at goidn's unsubstantiated claims about Monte.

OK, cool. I was just trying to generate discussion.

goidn
11th September 2007, 01:24 AM
Monty has never hired a lawyer, and besides, this was just a (verbatim) story of one of his folks.
As far as I'm concerned he can deposit all of his people .
The chances of him bringing the suit are anywhere from zero to none.

blastfromthepast
11th September 2007, 02:02 AM
There is really is no such thing as a libel lawsuit in the US. In any suit, you must prove that there was specific monetary damage to your business. Merely posting something about someone on a forum may affect the businesses profit, but it is difficult to prove this directly. Unlike the UK, where libel lawsuits seem common, in the US, free speech reigns.

jacksonm
11th September 2007, 07:03 AM
goidn - hopefully you're not in the same (US) jurisdiction or you're very likely to face a libel suit. Examples of some of those thousands of invisible domains might bolster your case, but restraint is surely the wiser path.


In libel lawsuits in the US, the burden of proof lies with the plaintiff, not the defendant. The plaintiff must prove that the published information was false.

As a further point of interest, Singapore aparrently has the strictest libel laws on the planet! Maybe Mulligan could say something about this.

.

Rubber Duck
11th September 2007, 07:22 AM
interesting post Burns.

I guess the question I should be asking is how do you measure success, and failure - and when do you call it?

Either you keep renewing for the rest of your life, muttering "not long now", or you have some sort of cut off.

Lets face it, if you have a self sufficient portfolio, then yes you can sit back and wait for ever, why not?

but if you haven't, and many haven't, when do you call it a day? there has to be some measure right? some deadline?

I'm no pessimist, but i'm no rose tinted glasses wearing optomist either... bottom line is only a fool keeps running forward without a game plan, without an end game.

I'm just curious as to what peoples end game looks like..

Well the end game is browser support. Nothing is going to materialise until that does. If that comes and goes and there is no change, then I think we can all assume we are screwed.

If any of you actually bother to read any of the information coming out of ICANN, it is pretty clear that most of the exisiting ccTLDs and gTLDs will map to localised strings in some form or another. What is clear is that those strings dont forcibly have to mean anything. Almost none of those typing in dot com now will be aware of its original meaning.

touchring
11th September 2007, 08:04 AM
but if you haven't, and many haven't, when do you call it a day? there has to be some measure right? some deadline?

I'm no pessimist, but i'm no rose tinted glasses wearing optomist either... bottom line is only a fool keeps running forward without a game plan, without an end game.

I'm just curious as to what peoples end game looks like..



The end game will be we all make money if we remain commited into the game (continue drop catching, continue buying selectively) and invest across languages.

If the market falls flat, it would only be a buying opportunity. And the good thing is that, it will only be the handful of us competiting among ourselves for the loot.

markits
11th September 2007, 09:07 AM
Apparantly there are too much for me to catch up.

So far, what I have gathered from the ND stats is that the daily traffic for Chinese com domains increased dramatically compared to last month. I think this is a good sign. Remember, ND blocks all traffic from China. One thing I am sure is that investment in Chinese IDN will be successful regardless how other language IDNs end up to.

I also understand that yahoo.jp changed its algo. I still need to determine it's impact....

jacksonm
11th September 2007, 10:47 AM
Remember, ND blocks all traffic from China.


I don't believe this. Do you have proof?

.

Giant
11th September 2007, 11:39 AM
.... No one seems to be willing to discuss this. ...

We discussed this quite extensively June last year, and ICANN is doing what they said they would do --- inserting some "test" IDN TLDs to the Root (albeit another round of testing). Everything is ontrack, all we can do now is be patient and wait...

Remember, Multilingual URL is a "revolution" in certain sense, so don't expect it to be an easy job. Also, domaining is investing in "opportunity", if you want to get rich in IDN domaining, you invest, NOT discuss.

I only invest in IDN.com (& a few IDN.cn) and I don't care about IDN.IDN.

touchring
11th September 2007, 12:55 PM
Apparantly there are too much for me to catch up.

So far, what I have gathered from the ND stats is that the daily traffic for Chinese com domains increased dramatically compared to last month. I think this is a good sign. Remember, ND blocks all traffic from China. One thing I am sure is that investment in Chinese IDN will be successful regardless how other language IDNs end up to.

I also understand that yahoo.jp changed its algo. I still need to determine it's impact....


Sure, if you look at foriegners flipping apts in china, it's not so much different from domains. You buy, you can't or don't want to rent it out cheaply and spoil the furnishing. It's no different from investing in domains. At least domains don't rot and leak under sun and rain.

sunsei21
11th September 2007, 01:59 PM
[QUOTE=burnsinternet] We can pair up the idn.idn with our own best idn.ascii domains. We can sell the idn.ascii to the idn.idn holders. [QUOTE]

What is so terrible about idn.com co-existing with idn.idn.
Dozens of extensions work side by side today, why is truly so different?

i think this is a possibility although i see idn.idn being the end all and be all if and or when it happens just for the simple reason we like idns surfing in native languages well picture idn.idn as the cherry on the top u might not need it but it sure looks good :)

markits
11th September 2007, 03:20 PM
Remember, ND blocks all traffic from China..


I don't believe this. Do you have proof?

.

I have been visiting many parts of China and none of the computers I tried during my visit can access ND parked page including scii ones.

markits
11th September 2007, 03:20 PM
Remember, ND blocks all traffic from China..


I don't believe this. Do you have proof?

.

I have been visiting many parts of China and none of the computers I tried during my visit can access ND parked page including scii ones.

touchring
11th September 2007, 03:35 PM
I have been visiting many parts of China and none of the computers I tried during my visit can access ND parked page including scii ones.


Have you found out anything to break the mystery behind the extreme surges and drop in chinese traffic the past 3 mths? Web navi?

jacksonm
11th September 2007, 03:36 PM
I have been visiting many parts of China and none of the computers I tried during my visit can access ND parked page including scii ones.

OK, I'll take your word for it then. However, I have had a lot of traffic to my chinese domains which are parked on ND and the traffic appears to originate from China. I believe this because when they leave my page, they are searching (in chinese) for terms like "beijing escorts", beijing this, beijing that, etc.

I wonder if the great firewall has recently blocked ND.

.

Giant
11th September 2007, 03:46 PM
OK, I'll take your word for it then. However, I have had a lot of traffic to my chinese domains which are parked on ND and the traffic appears to originate from China. I believe this because when they leave my page, they are searching (in chinese) for terms like "beijing escorts", beijing this, beijing that, etc.

I wonder if the great firewall has recently blocked ND.

.

China blocks almost all parking servers outside China. Wot's "我的朋友.com" is an exception :-).

But the blocking is not 100% tight, with different ISP at different places and at different time you still can access some parking sites SOMETIMES.

markits
11th September 2007, 03:58 PM
China blocks almost all parking servers outside China. Wot's "我的朋友.com" is an exception :-).

But the blocking is not 100% tight, with different ISP at different places and at different time you still can access some parking sites SOMETIMES.
I had thought that it is the parking companies that block Chinese traffic..but then I am not sure...perhaps giant is right in that it is in fact China that blocks foreign parking servers, which I don't understand why.
我的朋友.com is a developed site, using non-parking server.

touchring
11th September 2007, 04:16 PM
I had thought that it is the parking companies that block Chinese traffic..but then I am not sure...perhaps giant is right in that it is in fact China that blocks foreign parking servers, which I don't understand why.
我的朋友.com is a developed site, using non-parking server.

It also affects websites, not just parking servers.

e.g.

Some of my chinese minisite traffic (Direct) from analytics:

06/17/2007 - 06/23/2007 135
06/24/2007 - 06/30/2007 138
07/01/2007 - 07/07/2007 451
07/08/2007 - 07/14/2007 228
07/15/2007 - 07/21/2007 105
07/22/2007 - 07/28/2007 37
07/29/2007 - 08/04/2007 38
08/05/2007 - 08/11/2007 43

If you notice,

1. The traffic pattern matches Dopa,
2. Matches Alexa pattern for verisign idn domain, peaks on the 1st week of July followed by a steep fall - http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?q=idn.verisign-grs.com/&url=idn.verisign-grs.com/

Giant
11th September 2007, 04:22 PM
I had thought that it is the parking companies that block Chinese traffic..but then I am not sure...perhaps giant is right in that it is in fact China that blocks foreign parking servers, which I don't understand why.
我的朋友.com is a developed site, using non-parking server.

It's an serious offence running a porn or gambing site in China, probably because they think porn and gambling are the source of many crimes. Most of foreign parking servers serve porn and gambling stuff.

The blocking must be done at the ISP level because I have tried different ISP and sometimes I get lucky...

Ross
15th April 2008, 10:00 AM
Take a lesson from New Orleans. We should, at the very least, be prepared.


interesting post Burns.

I guess the question I should be asking is how do you measure success, and failure - and when do you call it?

Either you keep renewing for the rest of your life, muttering "not long now", or you have some sort of cut off.


I think Burns has dropped a lot of stuff recently (as in last week and this week), and I haven't seen him here for months. Anybody know what happened to him?


.