.jp cities as investments?

[seamo]

Hey guys

Just wondering what the general concensus is as to the long term value of the myriad of available Japanese city IDN's?

I went kinda nuts today...and I'm sure a lot of you know what I mean :)
(my credit card is still bleeding!)

I also want to take this moment to say what a great forum member gammascalper is, who helped me tremendously today. Thanks mate!

[Rubber Duck]

Hey guys

Just wondering what the general concensus is as to the long term value of the myriad of available Japanese city IDN's?

I went kinda nuts today...and I'm sure a lot of you know what I mean :)
(my credit card is still bleeding!)

I also want to take this moment to say what a great forum member gammascalper is, who helped me tremendously today. Thanks mate!

Think of a US City, not even very big, and try to owner to see what he wants for it. If you even get an answer, you'll know the answer!

[Olney]

You can't buy Japanese Cities in Dot Jp
They are reserved for the Japanese government...
As well as all the train stations...

[gammascalper]

Did you register .jp cities or Japanese cities in .com? Or both?

I just assumed that all Japanese cities in .jp were blocked, but after trying one just now, that's not the case!

[seamo]

That's a big 10-4 rubber duck!

(you might be too young to get that reference) :)

In light of Dave's incredible sale that has busted open the jp IDN market, the future is looking pretty good I reckon.

I should also qualify my question to by saying I want to know what you all think about all of the 3 main extensions - .com.jp & .net.

[Rubber Duck]

That's a big 10-4 rubber duck!

(you might be too young to get that reference) :)

In light of Dave's incredible sale that has busted open the jp IDN market, the future is looking pretty good I reckon.

I should also qualify my question to by saying I want to know what you all think about all of the 3 main extensions - .com.jp & .net.

Dot net is the lightweight, but this was a cheap sale to try to get some focus into the market. The dot com won't go under $500,000. My guess is dot jp will be somewhere in between, but almost certainly 6 figures!

No, I am not and I have ordered the film from Blockbuster. A little Banial at times, but very amusing!

Did you register .jp cities or Japanese cities in .com? Or both?

I just assumed that all Japanese cities in .jp were blocked, but after trying one just now, that's not the case!

There is a list. I assume that only the really big ones are listed.

[thegenius1]

Dot net is the lightweight, but this was a cheap sale to try to get some focus into the market. The dot com won't go under $500,000. My guess is dot jp will be somewhere in between, but almost certainly 6 figures!

.


So Dave or Duck what should we call you now ? What percentage of that 500k should i hold out for on EDO.com , 5% , 10% , 15% , 20% ?

[Rubber Duck]

So Dave or Duck what should we call you now ? What percentage of that 500k should i hold out for on EDO.com , 5% , 10% , 15% , 20% ?

It is an archiac term. It depends how archiac, and to what extent modern Japanese identify with it. Its no good asking me, I only have a very superficial understanding of Japanese culture.

[idnceo]

Hey guys

Just wondering what the general concensus is as to the long term value of the myriad of available Japanese city IDN's?

I went kinda nuts today...and I'm sure a lot of you know what I mean :)
(my credit card is still bleeding!)

I also want to take this moment to say what a great forum member gammascalper is, who helped me tremendously today. Thanks mate!

I dont know exactly what u r doing but if i feel some people are doing something not very appropiate when there are better things to register. I mean i wouldnt recommend to go very deep in city terminology. I mean like...

A name prefecture
A name prefecture - A name city
A name prefecture - A name city - A name town
A name prefecture - A name city - A name town - A name small district...........
....

Just because it says X town is not even remotely good as X city or better X prefecture. X being the name of the prefecture. Anyway i dont know if someone is doing this but i got the feeling this is happening...

[seamo]

I dont know exactly what u r doing but if i feel some people are doing something not very appropiate when there are better things to register. I mean i wouldnt recommend to go very deep in city terminology. I mean like...

A name prefecture
A name prefecture - A name city
A name prefecture - A name city - A name town
A name prefecture - A name city - A name town - A name small district...........
....

Just because it says X town is not even remotely good as X city or better X prefecture. X being the name of the prefecture. Anyway i dont know if someone is doing this but i got the feeling this is happening...

Hey, thanks for your concerns idnceo. It is gratefully received.

So, how far should one dig? My tution in everything Japan has been crash course unfortunately (noob)

My guess at a successful formula (made up by someone who is a complete and utter cultural & worldview foreigner to the country he is attempting to invest in) was based on

a) importance (heirarchal)
b) population

I aimed as high as I could of course, but as you can imagine every single Japanese Prefecture is now owned. All the Major Cities too.

I aimed next for Special Cities, where I mainly found .net's.

I then aimed at city's with population's as high as were still left. I definately kept clear of towns and villiages. I also did not register any city with a population less than around 150,000. I now have lots - many .com & .net's

eg: 石巻市.com /Ishinomaki City /(xn--0stoa530r)

What have I done? Is it a disaster?

Unfortunately, unless some selfless individuals reveal to you out of the genuine kindness that's in their souls offers to reveal just exactly what better things there are to register, or you buy a list from someone for some crazy price $$$ (cue Jaws music), you're flying blind a lot of the time. :o

[Edwin]

eg: 石巻市.com /Ishinomaki City /(xn--0stoa530r)

What have I done? Is it a disaster?

It's not a disaster, but please bear in mind that "市" means "City" and it's mainly an administrative distinction (though the larger places may attract people from outside the area thinking on those terms). It's like the difference between "Las Vegas" and "City of Las Vegas".

In daily conversation, when people say they're going somewhere, you don't tend to hear them say the "市" part, any more than you would hear people say they're going to the "City of Las Vegas" or to the "City of London" for the weekend.

What muddies the issue is that you ALWAYS put the administrative division info in addresses, so there will be massive counts for "石巻市" since every business in that area (which may be much wider than the city proper) will have "石巻市" as part of its address.

However, the people working, living or travelling there will most likely be using "石巻" in daily conversation, not "石巻市".

I would say that the forms with "市" are most likely worth only 5%-25% of the forms without.

[seamo]

However, the people working, living or travelling there will most likely be using "石巻市" in daily conversation, not "石巻市".\

Did you mean to say "石巻" in daily conversation, not "石巻市" Edwin?

If so, I had wondered if that was the case while I was registering them.

I did a fair bit of OVT double checking on this, and found the '市' version almost always gave a higher score. In some cases, OVT scores were almost non-existant without it. But my gut feeling is in agreement with you, that people outside the city would tend to use '石巻市', and natives would search with the shorter '石巻'.

What muddies the issue is that you ALWAYS put the administrative division info in addresses, so there will be massive counts for "石巻市" since every business in that area (which may be much wider than the city proper) will have "石巻市" as part of its address..\

So - if someone was searching for a local Japanese business, tourist location, or local government body for example, would they be more inclined to search with the '市' extension Edwin?

Cheers!

[thegenius1]

\



\

So - if someone was searching for a local Japanese business, tourist location, or local government body for example, would they be more inclined to search with the '市' extension Edwin?

Cheers!

Yes seamo the overture honestly in fact proves that to be the case.....

[Edwin]

Sorry, I corrected my post.

As for searches, I think it depends very much on the context.

If you're looking for something that is government/catchment area related e.g. schools, hospitals (and to some degree real estate) you would use "市"

If you're looking for restaurants, hotels, shops etc. you generally would use the straight name, without "市".

You can see this by comparing the OT results for the "市" and non-"市" forms and seeing what kind of keyphrases people are entering.

There will ALWAYS be exceptions (both in the ways people search and in the prominence of the "city"), but what I'm trying to indicate is broad patterns of behaviour.

Again, I have to stress that the "市" form will be used in all addresses within that area (which could be much larger than the central city itself) so that will severely distort Google results and may also affect search patterns i.e. if people are looking for an EXACT address they'll use the "市" form.

[rhys]

However, the people working, living or travelling there will most likely be using "石巻市" in daily conversation, not "石巻市".

I would say that the forms with "市" are most likely worth only 5%-25% of the forms without.

5%-25%. Hmm. Though what Edwin wrote above about the use of 市 is not wrong, I'm not entirely sure that I buy that valuation formula yet. From a type-in perspective, I have yet to see any evidence either way. No doubt that the OVT for cities with and without "市" are sometimes comparable and sometimes not and the differential doesn't always go in one direction. 松江市 gets 30% more OVT look-ups than 松江 whereas 米子 gets more OVT lookups than 米子市 for example. Also given that I consider both forms to be essentially a single word, I doubt that we should be too quick to pronounce value between these forms.

And more. Looking at an important and lucrative search for real estate by city:

1019 米子 市 不動産 Yonago city real estate
960 米子 不動産 Yonago real estate

1266 松江 市 不動産 Matsue city real estate
729 松江 不動産 Matsue real estate

[blastfromthepast]

Thank you for the explanation. It is becoming expensive to register all the combinations.

[thegenius1]

Yeah i disagree with that valutation, i mean if the overture is higher in the end that means that more people are searching for the one with the "shi" there will only be two options on these cities and i doubt that the latter of the 2 however it may play out would be worth that much less, but i wonder how much these little girls are worth 沼津市.com 四日市市.com 大津市.com 加古川市.com 茅ヶ崎市.com 山県市.com 山形市.com 寝屋川市.com 佐世保市.com 厚木市.com
岸和田市.com 11 of the 37 speacial citys :cool:

[Edwin]

Again, I'd like to stress that you need to look at the keyword combinations WITH the areas, not the areas themselves on their own. What kinds of things are people searching for (i.e. what is their frame of mind) when they use the "市" or when they omit it? If you cover a wide range of cities, I believe you'll spot the same pattern I'm seeing.

Perhaps a better comparison would be "Las Vegas County" rather than "Las Vegas City" - I'm not really familiar with the US system to know which one is most accurate. The "市" is an administrative decision drawn up by the government, and typically can include a lot of smaller "towns" as well as the main town or city that the "市" draws its name from.

[rhys]

I am going to copy my post again. Looking at the keyword combination search. I can detect no discernable pattern to warrent such a significant difference in valuation between 市 and non 市 forms. However, if anyone is panicked I might be willing to buy your 市 forms for $20 bucks each. :) Double your money!

5%-25%. Hmm. Though what Edwin wrote above about the use of 市 is not wrong, I'm not entirely sure that I buy that valuation formula yet. From a type-in perspective, I have yet to see any evidence either way. No doubt that the OVT for cities with and without "市" are sometimes comparable and sometimes not and the differential doesn't always go in one direction. 松江市 gets 30% more OVT look-ups than 松江 whereas 米子 gets more OVT lookups than 米子市 for example. Also given that I consider both forms to be essentially a single word, I doubt that we should be too quick to pronounce value between these forms.

And more. Looking at an important and lucrative search for real estate by city:

1019 米子 市 不動産 Yonago city real estate
960 米子 不動産 Yonago real estate

1266 松江 市 不動産 Matsue city real estate
729 松江 不動産 Matsue real estate

[Edwin]

I'm not saying that the sky is falling or that "市" names are worthless - for a large place, even 5%-25% is still good money. Hey, I paid $800 for 長崎市.com only a day ago!

I am simply trying to point out an important difference in usage that I've seen.

You need to look at larger cities, btw - somewhere with just 1,000 Overture is pretty small (on the "general perception" scale - even if it has a lot of inhabitants, perhaps it has little or no tourism, for example)

[kenne]

That's the problem with valuation. Everyone has his own scale and expectations. Until there are 100s of transactions, no one knows.

Only hard data, like OVT, Bids and population, is reliable and measurable.

Edwin has a good point. But so far, there's not much evidence either way. So we have to wait.

BTW, which city has 1000 OVT? They are probably too small.

Finally, I'd like to extend Rhy's offer to anyone who wants to offload their XX市 :)

[idnceo]

i dont see too much the point as i said of this city terminology from a native speaker perception, with the exception of very few cities. But anyway since u guys dont get it and you are crazy, I why dont u keep digging? I mean 町 and other city words can also give you interesting OVT, lets see available .com

福岡町.com Ovt 668 Fukuoka town 24.000.000 Search Results, good if you want, because Fukuoka is an important prefecture
津南町.com OVT 16066 - this is a town in Niigata prefecture ....
南京町.com OVT 12705 - this one is another available town but in Kobe .....

I have ones with better stats ...but secret... see thats why last time i sold 2 lists very fast with much better available stuff. Anyway, keep digging... in my opinion is like someone trying to registering available domains related to New York, so he start digging like this....
new york .com taken
new york state .com taken
new york city .com taken
new york town .com taken Cmon! Sh#!
new york district .com taken
new york area .com taken Cmon!!
new york avenue .com taken
new york street .com taken Holy Cow!
new york central park .com taken
new york park .com taken
new york kiosk .com Available! Hurrah!! :rolleyes: i have newyorkkiosk.com! premium domain for sale! :p

[touchring]

I'm not saying that the sky is falling or that "市" names are worthless - for a large place, even 5%-25% is still good money. Hey, I paid $800 for 長崎市.com only a day ago!

I am simply trying to point out an important difference in usage that I've seen.

You need to look at larger cities, btw - somewhere with just 1,000 Overture is pretty small (on the "general perception" scale - even if it has a lot of inhabitants, perhaps it has little or no tourism, for example)


For the case of Nagasaki, it is the capital of Nagasaki prefecture. So when one says "Nagasaki", does it refer to the prefecture or the capital? So it would seem that "市" names are significantly important for prefecture capitals - heck, many of the "市" i sold are prefecture capitals :)

[idnceo]

For the case of Nagasaki, it is the capital of Nagasaki prefecture. So when one says "Nagasaki", does it refer to the prefecture or the capital? So it would seem that "市" names are significantly important for prefecture capitals - heck, many of the "市" i sold are prefecture capitals :)

Well, the only thing i see interesting on city terminology is because if you have the japanese realestate.jp , or aparments.jp restaurants.jp you can link all the towns.jp/.com, cities.jp/com, etc to your main website apartments.jp , houses.jp, restaurants.jp etc.

After all in one domain like this 南京町.com OVT 12705 there are many people living there whom need to find apartments, search for houses, restaurants, etc. But well, it requieres an extremely big budget to register every single city terminology.

[touchring]

Well, the only thing i see interesting on city terminology is because if you have the japanese realestate.jp , or aparments.jp restaurants.jp you can link all the towns.jp/.com, cities.jp/com, etc to your main website apartments.jp , houses.jp, restaurants.jp etc.

After all in one domain like this 南京町.com OVT 12705 there are many people living there whom need to find apartments, search for houses, restaurants, etc. But well, it requieres an extremely big budget to register every single city terminology.


南京町.com -> i wouldn't register every district, though i would register something like Shinjuku or Ginza. It's better to keep to the major cities, they retain value, are easy to sell, and will appreciate faster in the future.

For the past 3 months, i've sold like close to 30 .com Japanese cities (all 300K+ population) starting from $45 a city, Bill was the first buyer to recognize the significance of cities.

I've got another 16 .coms left, among them Kobe City, Kawasaki City, Sendai City, Niigata City. I'll probably be keeping them until they can fetch 5 figures.

[seamo]

南京町.com -> i wouldn't register every district, though i would register something like Shinjuku or Ginza. It's better to keep to the major cities, they retain value, are easy to sell, and will appreciate faster in the future.

For the past 3 months, i've sold like close to 30 .com Japanese cities (all 300K+ population) starting from $45 a city, Bill was the first buyer to recognize the significance of cities.

I've got another 16 .coms left, among them Kobe City, Kawasaki City, Sendai City, Niigata City. I'll probably be keeping them until they can fetch 5 figures.

This is how I tried to build my list too - keeping in mind how little left there is thanks to the pro's :) Here is a few more of them for the detractors to criticise.

和歌山市.net /Wakayama City /xn--0trq7pn8a0y2a.net
.'..capital city of Wakayama Prefecture.' Pop: 386,501 in 2004

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wakayama

宇部市.com /Ube City /xn--29sq1d3y2f.com
'...The city is served by Yamaguchi Prefecture's only airport, Yamaguchi-Ube Airport, with daily flights to and from Tokyo and by three Japan Railway train lines.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ube%2C_Yamaguchi

宇治市.com /Uji City /xn--29sq1db3v.com

'Uji has an estimated population of 188,660 (2003), making it the largest city in Kyoto Prefecture apart from the city of Kyoto'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uji

I don't think IDN's like this, costing me $8 US a pop, are a poor investment. :p

[touchring]

No, they are a great investment. In comparison, the ones left in West Europe are just towns of 10,000 to 30,000 people.

[seamo]

No, they are a great investment. In comparison, the ones left in West Europe are just towns of 10,000 to 30,000 people.

Thanks mate!

Your reply has given me hope again!

The rate JP real estate has been going lately, maybe I have not made such a great mistake. I have gone for bulk reg in this area. I've cleaned alot of the top 50-150 cities up. Not everything was available mind you, and I also didn't reg everything either.

But enough that if they go for $1,000 a piece in the near future (plausible - does anyone else agree/disagree with me here?), I will pay off my portfolio...and my home....and that 72' Black Cobra I always wanted ;)

[touchring]

For the small cities (150k to 200k), it will take sometime to reach $1000, but that's totally achieveable in the medium term since it's a supply and demand issue. It's the same with my UAE, if Port of Dubai wants it, it has to give me an offer i can't reject. :)

[seamo]

For the small cities (150k to 200k), it will take sometime to reach $1000, but that's totally achieveable in the medium term since it's a supply and demand issue. It's the same with my UAE, if Port of Dubai wants it, it has to give me an offer i can't reject. :)

I totally agreed with ya' :)

The value of JP IDN cities has undeniably taken a HUUUUGE shot in the arm of late. Hopefully within a year I should be seeing far, far more than just reg fee for a lot of the ones I now have!