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g
15th October 2007, 11:44 AM
واخيرا تحقق الحلم العربي

حدث تاريخي ونقطة فاصلة في مرحلة تطوير المواقع والانترنت

A turning point in the history of arabic internet

read more details here

http://www.xn--mgb5a8an.com/article26.htm

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 11:50 AM
واخيرا تحقق الحلم العربي

حدث تاريخي ونقطة فاصلة في مرحلة تطوير المواقع والانترنت

A turning point in the history of arabic internet

read more details here

http://www.xn--mgb5a8an.com/article26.htm

Any chance to get a summary in English?

.

bwhhisc
15th October 2007, 11:51 AM
Gee- can you translate or give us the highlights in English. Thx.

g
15th October 2007, 11:55 AM
idn.idn is working

http://icann.org/announcements/announcement-15oct07.htm

I just copied the arabic article from icann

http://xn--mgbcd4a2b0d2b.idn.icann.org/الصفحة_الرئيسية

you can try them now

http://مثال.إختبار/

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 12:00 PM
Don't forget to add your whitelists for the test domains to firefox if you want to see IDN.IDN in the address bar.

.

domainguru
15th October 2007, 12:02 PM
Don't forget to add your whitelists for the test domains to firefox if you want to see IDN.IDN in the address bar.

.

True enough, but for the general public using Firefox that have no idea about whitelisting? They will wonder what the heck IDNs are all about and turn their back for the next few years.

Shame on Firefox for adopting their ridiculous whitelisting policy!!

g
15th October 2007, 12:06 PM
I don't care what appears in the address bar

it is the first time for me guys that I write down arabic url and it resolves to a website

I will surely keep this moment for long in the memory to tell the kids :)

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 12:06 PM
True enough, but for the general public using Firefox that have no idea about whitelisting? They will wonder what the heck IDNs are all about and turn their back for the next few years.

Shame on Firefox for adopting their ridiculous whitelisting policy!!


Let's call it what it is: A pissing contest with Verisign.

.

domainguru
15th October 2007, 12:09 PM
I don't care what appears in the address bar

it is the first time for me guys that I write down arabic url and it resolves to a website

I will surely keep this moment for long in the memory to tell the kids :)

You should care. Hundreds of thousands of people across the globe will access these test URLs and lose confidence in the whole IDN thing. They get promised domains in their own language and all they see is xn--.xn--, how disappointing is that?

Maybe if this testbed shines an embarrassingly bright spotlight on Mozilla's whitelisting policy, some good will come out of it.

g
15th October 2007, 12:12 PM
You should care. Hundreds of thousands of people across the globe will access these test URLs and lose confidence in the whole IDN thing. They get promised domains in their own language and all they see is xn--.xn--, how disappointing is that?

Maybe if this testbed shines an embarrassingly bright spotlight on Mozilla's whitelisting policy, some good will come out of it.

I care about many things not only how it appears in the address bar but also emails and www thing ....etc

but I was talking about enjoying the present moment

domainguru
15th October 2007, 12:14 PM
I care about many things not only how it appears in the address bar but also emails and www thing ....etc

but I was talking about enjoying the present moment

Sure, its a major event, and happy about that, but for me, definitely partially spoiled by the pissing contest.

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 12:29 PM
Sure, its a major event, and happy about that, but for me, definitely partially spoiled by the pissing contest.


I agree.

Perhaps it would be constructive for some of the members of this forum who are native speakers of the test wikis to deliver the following message:

"While this is an extremely important milestone on the road to IDN.IDN implementation, the event is somewhat soured by the fact that Firefox has been forced to implement a whilelisting policy in response to Verisign's refusal to prevent mixed-script IDN registrations. The situation is compounded by the fact that Firefox does not provide an easy way for users to enable whitelists or even know that whitelists are required for that matter. Perhaps ICANN can put some pressure on Verisign to publish a policy to registrars regarding which types of mixed script registrations are acceptable and which are not."


I'm sure that somebody can word it better than I can, but this message should be translated and delivered.

.

touchring
15th October 2007, 01:52 PM
I care about many things not only how it appears in the address bar but also emails and www thing ....etc

but I was talking about enjoying the present moment


Hi g, is there an arabic version of .com?

g
15th October 2007, 03:55 PM
Hi g, is there an arabic version of .com?

yes arabic .com and .net are solid with no other versions and all website developers ,who are not aware of idns ,are using them

كوم .com
نت .net

if they offer new registrations at .com(idn) , then .com(idn) will be the arabic king and our idn.com will be the queen or less ... but it is a rare possibility as people here mentioned because of confusing similarity.

if they offer free or paid aliasing with .com(idn) then our idn.com prices will explode and you will see jumping in traffic and revenue ....

if they will leave idn.com as it is and offer new idn.idn registrations. it depends on the new idn.idn choosen and how arab will accept the sound of it .... but no doubt idn.com will be on the top for long unless they cancel them .... :)

Fka200
15th October 2007, 04:05 PM
Great news. Nice to see the sites are all working!

touchring
15th October 2007, 04:14 PM
yes arabic .com and .net are solid with no other versions and all website developers ,who are not aware of idns ,are using them

كوم .com
نت .net

if they offer new registrations at .com(idn) , then .com(idn) will be the arabic king and our idn.com will be the queen or less ... but it is a rare possibility as people here mentioned because of confusing similarity.

if they offer free or paid aliasing with .com(idn) then our idn.com prices will explode and you will see jumping in traffic and revenue ....

if they will leave idn.com as it is and offer new idn.idn registrations. it depends on the new idn.idn choosen and how arab will accept the sound of it .... but no doubt idn.com will be on the top for long unless they cancel them .... :)


ok, how about the left to right or right to left problem for idn.com. Is this a problem at all?

Fka200
15th October 2007, 04:17 PM
ok, how about the left to right or right to left problem for idn.com. Is this a problem at all?

I was just thinking of the R-T-L problem yesterday. It's a real nuisance... I was thinking of it while trying to design a new logo and it really sucks having the TLD to the right when it should be on the left of the domain name.

touchring
15th October 2007, 04:34 PM
I was just thinking of the R-T-L problem yesterday. It's a real nuisance... I was thinking of it while trying to design a new logo and it really sucks having the TLD to the right when it should be on the left of the domain name.


They will dname كوم . to .com, to avoid a phishing nightmare - which can potentially end careers.... This is more than just money, it is about failing on the job entirely.

ASCIIer thinking that .idn will be independent from .com is only wishful thinking.

Fka200
15th October 2007, 04:37 PM
They will dname كوم . to .com, to avoid a phishing nightmare - which can potentially end careers.... This is more than just money, it is about failing on the job entirely.

ASCIIer thinking that .idn will be independent from .com is only wishful thinking.

I agree. I can't wait till نت (net) extension is IDN'd. كوم sounds like sh!t. I've spent the last 4 months researching this TLD issue, and I've come to interesting conclusions. From asking random people on the street to a bit more ridiculous things (in the Middle East of course).

g
15th October 2007, 04:49 PM
ok, how about the left to right or right to left problem for idn.com. Is this a problem at all?

it is an annoying thing but it is much more with .net than .com which you can instead press cntrol/enter

aliasing will revive the .net which is hardly receives any typins these days because of this right to left thing

They will dname كوم . to .com, to avoid a phishing nightmare - which can potentially end careers.... This is more than just money, it is about failing on the job entirely.

ASCIIer thinking that .idn will be independent from .com is only wishful thinking.

not only ASCIIers ... but also late comer natives as I see with arab who wish to catch better names if there is any new landrush

I agree. I can't wait till نت (net) extension is IDN'd. كوم sounds like sh!t. I've spent the last 4 months researching this TLD issue, and I've come to interesting conclusions. From asking random people on the street to a bit more ridiculous things (in the Middle East of course).

be careful many here own alof of sh*t you are describing....

you also are listing many of them here

http://www.xn--mgbajs8hhhot.com/arabic-domains.html

it is really very disappointing to read a message like this from an educated IDNer !

peace

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 05:21 PM
Can't wait to hear dabsi's comment.

.

Rubber Duck
15th October 2007, 05:31 PM
Can't wait to hear dabsi's comment.

.

You mean the World's Most Famous Arabic Domainer?

I agree. I can't wait till نت (net) extension is IDN'd. كوم sounds like sh!t. I've spent the last 4 months researching this TLD issue, and I've come to interesting conclusions. From asking random people on the street to a bit more ridiculous things (in the Middle East of course).

Perhaps you should spend a little time researching what Verisign proposed originally!

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 05:39 PM
You mean the World's Most Famous Arabic Domainer?!

She has a few top names, but strangely does not believe in them. I think she should sell them to me on the cheap!

.

Rubber Duck
15th October 2007, 05:42 PM
She has a few top names, but strangely does not believe in them. I think she should sell them to me on the cheap!

.

Flipper!

Of course her other problem is that she believes what those fools at Sedo tell her!

Fka200
15th October 2007, 05:47 PM
Dave, can you explain a little bit? Maybe I missed something or am not thinking clearly this early in the morning...

Rubber Duck
15th October 2007, 05:55 PM
Dave, can you explain a little bit? Maybe I missed something or am not thinking clearly this early in the morning...

The original proposals were for single characters.

alpha
15th October 2007, 06:12 PM
You should care. Hundreds of thousands of people across the globe will access these test URLs and lose confidence in the whole IDN thing. They get promised domains in their own language and all they see is xn--.xn--, how disappointing is that?

Maybe if this testbed shines an embarrassingly bright spotlight on Mozilla's whitelisting policy, some good will come out of it.

Looks like Mozilla are going to cover up this fiasco..

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=397803

"ICANN are starting a test of IDN in the root.
http://icann.org/announcements/announcement-2-19jun07.htm
This involves adding 11 test TLDs to the root, so software can be tested to see
if it works with them.

We should add these 11 "test" TLDs to our IDN whitelist, to allow Firefox users
to participate fully in the test. Once the TLDs are removed from the root at
the end of the test period, we can remove them again."

Rubber Duck
15th October 2007, 06:17 PM
Well with Opera being heralded as the only Browser that works properly, I guess they were feeling some heat. I guess they will be feeling a lot more soon!

Looks like Mozilla are going to cover up this fiasco..

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=397803

"ICANN are starting a test of IDN in the root.
http://icann.org/announcements/announcement-2-19jun07.htm
This involves adding 11 test TLDs to the root, so software can be tested to see
if it works with them.

We should add these 11 "test" TLDs to our IDN whitelist, to allow Firefox users
to participate fully in the test. Once the TLDs are removed from the root at
the end of the test period, we can remove them again."

Fka200
15th October 2007, 06:53 PM
The original proposals were for single characters.


Ahhh, yes. Totally forgot about that. I don't see that working out as well as having نت and كوم.

Rubber Duck
15th October 2007, 06:59 PM
Ahhh, yes. Totally forgot about that. I don't see that working out as well as having نت and كوم.

I don't think it matters a great deal. Arabic will be a home run for dot com if they can only get IDN.IDN in any shape or form.

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 07:15 PM
Looks like Mozilla are going to cover up this fiasco..

https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=397803

"ICANN are starting a test of IDN in the root.
http://icann.org/announcements/announcement-2-19jun07.htm
This involves adding 11 test TLDs to the root, so software can be tested to see
if it works with them.

We should add these 11 "test" TLDs to our IDN whitelist, to allow Firefox users
to participate fully in the test. Once the TLDs are removed from the root at
the end of the test period, we can remove them again."


It's a bit late now. By the time they get a release out and on desktops, the testbed will have been shut down.

.

Rubber Duck
15th October 2007, 07:18 PM
It's a bit late now. By the time they get a release out and on desktops, the testbed will have been shut down.

.

Excellent.

Even more heat!

I just love the arbituary way this decision was handled!

g
15th October 2007, 07:20 PM
I donno may be there is some cultural differences

In egypt we prefer .com over anything else

some people from gulf area may prefer .net as you see with aljazeera.net


but another theory supports arabic .com adoption is that many sites are working with .com.xx as country codes like

.com.eg
.com.sa
.com.kw ......etc

Fka200
15th October 2007, 07:26 PM
I donno may be there is some cultural differences

In egypt we prefer .com over anything else

some people from gulf area may prefer .net as you see with aljazeera.net


but another theory supports arabic .com adoption is that many sites are working with .com.xx as country codes like

.com.eg
.com.sa
.com.kw ......etc

There is a definite cultural difference in the Middle East in regards to tld. It gets a little confusing, but I figure in the end it is a win-win situation which makes it worthwhile.

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 07:27 PM
Excellent.

Even more heat!

I just love the arbituary way this decision was handled!

You've just coined a new word, congrats! Arbitrary leading to obituary :-)

.

g
15th October 2007, 07:31 PM
ok, how about the left to right or right to left problem for idn.com. Is this a problem at all?

idn.com(idn) will put an end to this problem as you will write the name easily in one direction.

burnsinternet
15th October 2007, 07:42 PM
The 11 evaluation wikis will remain online until IDNs are fully implemented and the first top-level domain is introduced in the evaluation language.

The evaluation language? Mystery.

yanni
15th October 2007, 07:54 PM
the first top-level domain is introduced

Bigger mystery.

jose
15th October 2007, 08:27 PM
Perhaps ICANN can put some pressure on Verisign to publish a policy to registrars regarding which types of mixed script registrations are acceptable and which are not.

Isn't that the perfect task for the IDN association?

OPERA RULEZ!

alexd
15th October 2007, 08:32 PM
Just tried the Greek page there ... http://παράδειγμα.δοκιμή on Opera, and the address in the toolbar actually shows as ....

http://παράδειγμα.δοκιμή/Αρχική_σελίδα ( Αρχικη Σελιδα meaning Home Page ).

If Opera can get this working, whats the problem with Firefox and IE giving us the same thing ??

It does look like a step in the right direction.

Alex

Rubber Duck
15th October 2007, 08:32 PM
You've just coined a new word, congrats! Arbitrary leading to obituary :-)

.

Is it taken?

The way it works is ICANN makes the rules and Verisign follows them.

Whey the fuck Mozilla have a problem with that is beyond me!


Perhaps ICANN can put some pressure on Verisign to publish a policy to registrars regarding which types of mixed script registrations are acceptable and which are not.

Isn't that the perfect task for the IDN association?

OPERA RULEZ!

jacksonm
15th October 2007, 09:10 PM
Is it taken?

The way it works is ICANN makes the rules and Verisign follows them.

Whey the fuck Mozilla have a problem with that is beyond me!


Why ICANN has a problem making Verisign disallow phishing domain registrations is beyond me.

Agreed, mozilla is being a bit of a vigilante in this situation.

.

Drewbert
15th October 2007, 09:16 PM
Just tried the Greek page there ... http://παράδειγμα.δοκιμή on Opera, and the address in the toolbar actually shows as ....

http://παράδειγμα.δοκιμή/Αρχική_σελίδα ( Αρχικη Σελιδα meaning Home Page ).

If Opera can get this working, whats the problem with Firefox and IE giving us the same thing ??

It does look like a step in the right direction.

Alex

Safari also shows punycode instead of unicode for Greek, Cyrillic and Hebrew. :(

Time to start stirring the pot somewhere. I sent a bug to Apple via the BUG button in Safari 3 for the Greek URL above. If a few other people do the same, it might float to the top.

bwhhisc
15th October 2007, 11:01 PM
idn.com(idn) will put an end to this problem as you will write the name easily in one direction.
Or maybe they can handle the R-T-L probelm by just reassigning the ending extension "moc." :p

burnsinternet
15th October 2007, 11:49 PM
I took a new PC, fresh from the packing box, plain vanilla XP SP2 and IE7. Changed that language settings. The only URLs that do not show up are Korean, Japanese, and Chinese because the Language Packs were not installed. With LPs installed, all works perfectly.

domainguru
16th October 2007, 10:08 AM
Its about time MS stopped all this language pack nonsense. Just install all Unicode fonts as default and stop the world's population from seeing question marks and square boxes when they should be seeing real words and symbols. Its not like modern PCs can't handle large number of fonts. This isn't 1995 anymore MS!

Rubber Duck
16th October 2007, 10:25 AM
Its about time MS stopped all this language pack nonsense. Just install all Unicode fonts as default and stop the world's population from seeing question marks and square boxes when they should be seeing real words and symbols. Its not like modern PCs can't handle large number of fonts. This isn't 1995 anymore MS!

It is in Seattle. They need all the room they can get to accommodate their bloatware!

Or maybe they can handle the R-T-L probelm by just reassigning the ending extension "moc." :p

Don't put ideas in their heads!

jacksonm
16th October 2007, 10:46 AM
Or maybe they can handle the R-T-L probelm by just reassigning the ending extension "moc." :p


This is a browser specific feature, and could certainly be implemented very easily. Probably a low priority for any browser product manager, though.

.

g
16th October 2007, 12:02 PM
This is a browser specific feature, and could certainly be implemented very easily. Probably a low priority for any browser product manager, though.

.

it is actually not a right to left problem or even browser problem

.com appears on the right or on the left according to your setting

it appears on the right at arabic based forums but on the left here

the annoying thing is in the keyboard when you have to shift languages before typing the .com

any how I used to be annoyed of typing www then . then the term then . then com .. now everybody is used to it

it only needs education and the idn.com is working perfectly anyway

jacksonm
16th October 2007, 12:07 PM
it is actually not a right to left problem or even browser problem

.com appears on the right or on the left according to your setting

it appears on the right at arabic based forums but on the left here

the annoying thing is in the keyboard when you have to shift languages before typing the .com

any how I used to be annoyed of typing www then . then the term then . then com .. now everybody is used to it

it only needs education and the idn.com is working perfectly anyway


We are talking about the visually displeasing problem of:

com.niamod


instead of how it should be:

moc.niamod


.

g
16th October 2007, 12:18 PM
We are talking about the visually displeasing problem of:

com.niamod


instead of how it should be:

moc.niamod


.

I don't get it

here it appears idn.com

in arabic forums it appears com.idn

if .com appeared moc it will look distorted and it will not be recognised as .com

touchring
16th October 2007, 04:28 PM
I don't get it

here it appears idn.com

in arabic forums it appears com.idn

if .com appeared moc it will look distorted and it will not be recognised as .com


As someone who doesn't read LTR, i assume that people that read LTR will automatically read RTL for ABC?

thefabfive
16th October 2007, 04:41 PM
As someone who doesn't read LTR, i assume that people that read LTR will automatically read RTL for ABC?
Those that read RTL (Arabic, Hebrew) do not read English as RTL. "moc." is gibberish.

That said, you can type Arabic domain names just as easily as Russian or Chinese regardless of the RTL issue. You would start with the Arabic portion, switch languages to English (Alt-Tab or equivalent), and type .com. Works fine. May not look pretty, but it's functional.

touchring
16th October 2007, 04:56 PM
Those that read RTL (Arabic, Hebrew) do not read English as RTL. "moc." is gibberish.

That said, you can type Arabic domain names just as easily as Russian or Chinese regardless of the RTL issue. You would start with the Arabic portion, switch languages to English (Alt-Tab or equivalent), and type .com. Works fine. May not look pretty, but it's functional.


oh, my typo, but if it works fine, ok. so no big issue except key swtich.

dabsi
16th October 2007, 05:21 PM
Until Arabs have agreed on an extension, ICANN will not be existing anymore.

Look at the Arab League.....Again we'll be facing 'Island solutions' having UAE with their own solutions, EGYPT with a Pharaon extension an the Maghreb keeping French.

DABSI

Rubber Duck
16th October 2007, 06:36 PM
Until Arabs have agreed on an extension, ICANN will not be existing anymore.

Look at the Arab League.....Again we'll be facing 'Island solutions' having UAE with their own solutions, EGYPT with a Pharaon extension an the Maghreb keeping French.

DABSI

Thanks Dabsi,

As ever you have pin-pointed the issue, even followed some of the logic, but plucked totally the wrong conclusion from fresh air.

It is obvious that dot com will have a field day, here as in Russia. Verisign will destroy disorganised opposition.

Fka200
16th October 2007, 07:35 PM
Until Arabs have agreed on an extension, ICANN will not be existing anymore.

Look at the Arab League.....Again we'll be facing 'Island solutions' having UAE with their own solutions, EGYPT with a Pharaon extension an the Maghreb keeping French.

DABSI


And that's why the gTLDs will work regardless of the crap ccTLDs! Woo Hoo!

TinaDam
16th October 2007, 11:24 PM
Hi all, I noticed that you have some good discussions concerning the browser functionality and user expectations when it comes to IDN TLDs....as tried out at the various IDNwiki's that you can access from the IDNwiki gateway at http://idn.icann.org

I am wondering if you would participate in the wiki discussions as well? Reason ebing that we would like to be able to gather all the experience users are having when using the IDN TLDs so that we can make that information available to the application providers as well as to the generel public when reports are being made.

We anticipate several rounds of such reports, but the sooner the better :)

Also, in case you have any questions about IDN TLDs, please dont hesitate to ask me - here - directly - or on the IDNwiki's.

Kind regards,

Tina Dam
Director, IDN Program
ICANN

Email: tina.dam@icann.org
Cell: +1-310-862-2026
Office: +1-310-301-5838

g
19th October 2007, 01:30 AM
Hi all, I noticed that you have some good discussions concerning the browser functionality and user expectations when it comes to IDN TLDs....as tried out at the various IDNwiki's that you can access from the IDNwiki gateway at http://idn.icann.org

I am wondering if you would participate in the wiki discussions as well? Reason ebing that we would like to be able to gather all the experience users are having when using the IDN TLDs so that we can make that information available to the application providers as well as to the generel public when reports are being made.

We anticipate several rounds of such reports, but the sooner the better :)

Also, in case you have any questions about IDN TLDs, please dont hesitate to ask me - here - directly - or on the IDNwiki's.

Kind regards,

Tina Dam
Director, IDN Program
ICANN

Email: tina.dam@icann.org
Cell: +1-310-862-2026
Office: +1-310-301-5838

Hi Tina,

it is a great pleasure to see you here.
I am sorry to say that your announcements weren't clear enough and made a lot of confusion among arabic users.
I tried to participate in discussion in wiki but I couldn't reach any link or how to read these discussion or how to participate.
the arabic translation wasn't friendly enough to explain to arabic user what is going on.
I will open a new thread in this arabic section to discuss it.
Hope to always hear from you.
thank you
your help is much appreciated
Regards,
Gee

bramiozo
19th October 2007, 07:52 AM
Hi all, I noticed that you have some good discussions concerning the browser functionality and user expectations when it comes to IDN TLDs....as tried out at the various IDNwiki's that you can access from the IDNwiki gateway at http://idn.icann.org

I am wondering if you would participate in the wiki discussions as well? Reason ebing that we would like to be able to gather all the experience users are having when using the IDN TLDs so that we can make that information available to the application providers as well as to the generel public when reports are being made.

We anticipate several rounds of such reports, but the sooner the better :)

Also, in case you have any questions about IDN TLDs, please dont hesitate to ask me - here - directly - or on the IDNwiki's.

Kind regards,

Tina Dam
Director, IDN Program
ICANN

Email: tina.dam@icann.org
Cell: +1-310-862-2026
Office: +1-310-301-5838

Why not officially couple idnforums.com to the ICANN idn.gateway in combination with specific forum sections ?

Fka200
19th October 2007, 08:24 AM
Why not officially couple idnforums.com to the ICANN idn.gateway in combination with specific forum sections ?

I absolutely agree. There is just so much information all over the board it would be a GREAT resource site to anyone + they have first hand support from people who are super experienced with IDNs with ALL languages. From Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, German, Swedish, Hebrew, Russian, Spanish, French, and the list just keeps going and going!

Drewbert
19th October 2007, 06:35 PM
Why not officially couple idnforums.com to the ICANN idn.gateway in combination with specific forum sections ?

You forget that domain investors/speculators equate to cybersquatters in the eyes of ICANN and the general public.

Like I said before, if one of use went to an ICANN meeting, arose, and stated we were a domain investor holding thousands of domain names, we wouldn't make it out the door alive.

Someone attending the LA meeting is welcome to disprove this, if they're game.

The one thing that would convince the cartel running ICANN that aliasing is a bad idea, is if they figured out that 30 or so people were sitting on all the gold.

bramiozo
19th October 2007, 11:26 PM
I am afraid you're right, they do need a hand in editing the wikipage though ;) .

For a second I thought we have an accepted business practice :eek: .

burnsinternet
19th October 2007, 11:53 PM
Newest Wiki Post:

This is a message for ICANN official Tina Dam. I see she is now contributing to the Web site IDN Forums. I just want her to know that this Web site does NOT represent the real IDN community. Any member whose opinions clash with Web site owner Olney is immediately expelled from the site. Brianludtke (http://idn.icann.org/index.php?title=User:Brianludtke&action=edit) 23:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

bwhhisc
20th October 2007, 12:41 PM
Easy enought to read thru his old posts here and get a real sense of who's who.
Besides, it's excellent publicity for IDNF.

Rubber Duck
20th October 2007, 12:46 PM
We Moonies are defined by the foolish insults that hurdled at us from the uninitiated.