IDN.com to IDN.IDN - Possible Scenario?

[idnowner]

I think a possible (and perhaps a likely) scenario for IDN.com would be to eliminate or phase out IDN.com and provide the IDN.IDN versions to the appropriate IDN.com owners.

Since IDN.coms were introduced as "testbed" domains, and I've never seen any official statements that IDN.com would be "forever," it seems that this would be a logical progression.

For one reason, having equivalent IDN.com with IDN.IDN domains may be confusing to many, whether one is an alias/DNAME of the other, or not. Furthermore, the term "IDN" would be clear, referring only to "full" IDNs (IDN.IDN), instead of "mixed" whatever-language plus English ".com."

Phasing out IDN.com would also eliminate the problems with identical names in Chinese and Japanese. The language label that was (or should have been) selected at the time of registration may be used to properly assign the proper language for such names. (If a language label was never set or set to an invalid language maybe you will get the option to set it later.)

As an example, the current "water.com" in Japanese and Chinese would be 水.com. Instead of the confusion and conflict of the .com, the appropriate language would be applied to the existing registration, and provide the IDN.IDN to the owner.

If the current 水.com is tagged as Japanese, then the owner would be given the domain 水.会社 (assuming .会社 will be the Japanese equivalent TLD). In addition to clearing up that conflict, the Chinese version (水.公司) would then become available as a new registration - previously blocked by (the Japanese-tagged) 水.com.

This is only my guess as to what may happen next year, and I think this is the most logical solution.

[Fka200]

I doubt they would eliminate .com/.net... and just make it aliased instead.

[touchring]

this will in fact be the worst case scenario for chinese and japanese. the best case is they do not dname.

水.公司 already works in china and is not popular.

[Rubber Duck]

Idnowner,

Logical it may or may not be. Novel it most certainly is. I haven't seen this put forward by anyone else.

[idnowner]

Idnowner,

Logical it may or may not be. Novel it most certainly is. I haven't seen this put forward by anyone else.

I don't think this possible solution is "novel" in any way. I think it is a sensible solution, only complicated by not having introduced IDN.IDN in the first place.

I can't speak for Japanese (or any other non-English-language) speaking people, but it just seems they'd be more comfortable with IDN.IDN, and it would seem to me that this might have been the intention from the beginning (1997 or earlier).

Yes, you likely haven't seen this put forward by anyone else. Nor have I, so if this turns out to be the final solution, remember where you heard it first! Otherwise, please disregard this posting :-)

[Rubber Duck]

Actually, it is totally flawed in as much as there is no language tag.

Domains are tagged only for a checking algo that runs during registration. No permanent record is kept.

I don't think this possible solution is "novel" in any way. I think it is a sensible solution, only complicated by not having introduced IDN.IDN in the first place.

I can't speak for Japanese (or any other non-English-language) people, but it just seems they'd be more comfortable with IDN.IDN, and it would seem to me that this might have been the intention from the beginning (1997 or earlier).

Yes, you likely haven't seen this put forward by anyone else. Nor have I, so if this turns out to be the final solution, remember where you heard it first! Otherwise, please disregard this posting :-)

[idnowner]

Actually, it is totally flawed in as much as there is no language tag.

Domains are tagged only for a checking algo that runs during registration. No permanent record is kept.

Perhaps more of a reason to only allow IDN.IDN, without any mixed characters in the top two levels.

[Rubber Duck]

Perhaps more of a reason to only allow IDN.IDN, without any mixed characters in the top two levels.

The problem is that would only work if language and script were synonymous. They are not.

[idnowner]

The problem is that would only work if language and script were synonymous. They are not.

I don't know enough to really know which solution would result in the least amount of problems. It seems, no matter which way they go, they won't be able to please everyone. If DNAME is the solution, and becomes permanent, that would likely be the best scenario for me. I just wish we could find out now so we can put an end to all the worry, speculation and confusion.

[Rubber Duck]

I don't know enough to really know which solution would result in the least amount of problems. It seems, no matter which way they go, they won't be able to please everyone. If DNAME is the solution, and becomes permanent, that would likely be the best scenario for me. I just wish we could find out now so we can put an end to all the worry, speculation and confusion.

I think you worry too much.

Dot Com is the global brand they will all be seeking. They will find in whatever form it manifests itself, because the reinforcement by usage and advertising will be massive compared to any me too alternatives. It basically just does not matter. Chinese can handle dot com without any worries. It is only a real problem for RTL languages.

[thegenius1]

Nothing to worry about we are sitting on gold no matter how the ball falls

[Giant]

I think you worry too much.

I think so too.

China has chosen their best solution: .cn and .中国 as one domain. This is a done deal, no one can change it, and no one would.

Dot Com just needs to choose its own alias to help it look complete (IDN.IDN), any alias will do, because:

IDN.com will be king, not its alias.

[idnowner]

I think so too.

China has chosen their best solution: .cn and .中国 as one domain. This is a done deal, no one can change it, and no one would.

Dot Com just needs to choose its own alias, any one will do, because:

IDN.com will be king, not its alias.

Yes, I worry. In fact, my middle name is Worrywart.

I agree, "dot-com" is king, but when it comes to Japanese IDNs, I think I'd like to hear from native Japanese speakers, who live in Japan, what they'd prefer - 水.会社 or 水.com.

Also, with all of those early test-bed disclaimers, about any IDN.com domain can be cancelled, and no guarantee that these domains will ever work, etc., it would be nice if they'd just lay out the plan as it will be.

I am about 70% sure IDN.com will be the real deal, but until I get the official word, I'm going to continue to worry.

[thegenius1]

I am about 70% sure IDN.com will be the real deal, but until I get the official word, I'm going to continue to worry.

Well thats just unnecessary stress , you may end up greying fast

But .com in japanese is .コム

[Giant]

Also, with all of those early test-bed disclaimers, about any IDN.com domain can be cancelled, and no guarantee that these domains will ever work, etc., it would be nice if they'd just lay out the plan as it will be.


"test-bed" is just a term VeriSign used to protect them legally as a common practice any commercial company would use. Our registered IDN.com domains are in VeriSign's real system like any other ASCII.com domains. "test-bed" is already a thing of the past without formally declaring it.

[idnowner]

Well thats just unnecessary stress , you may end up greying fast

But .com in japanese is .コム

.コム may be the phonetic (Katakana) version of ".com" but .会社 (Kanji, dot-Kaisha/dot-company) is, from what I understand, going to be the choice as the Japanese .com equivalent.

[thegenius1]

.コム may be the phonetic (Katakana) version of ".com" but .会社 (Kanji, dot-Kaisha/dot-company) is, from what I understand, going to be the choice as the Japanese .com equivalent.


Well that will be a really dumb choice if thats what they do , just pop the katakan version in overture

799450 カリビアン コム
259046 価格 コム (DOT COM winner) 1,189,049 価格 com
75032 カカク コム
27578 コム デ ギャルソン
18400 アサヒ コム
11591 イッツ コム
7427 カリビアン コム ガール
7384 一休 コム
7192 カリビアン コム プレミアム
6893 デニム ダンガリー 160 - コム - ヒス - ブー - ベベ - グラ - ラフ - 検
6166 比較 コム
6057 カルビアン コム
5805 デニム ダンガリー 150 - コム - ヒス - ブー - ベベ - グラ - ラフ - 検
5243 デニム ダンガリー - ラブ - コム - ヒス - ブー - ベベ - グラ - ラフ - 検 - wam - was - ストア
4968 インフォ コム
4627 便利 コム

[Olney]

I think those of us living here would probably agree
.com as is is better than an alias probably just like China.
It's my personal opinion but any Japanese businessman would not want dot com to equal .会社. Company standing has value in Japan.
Having it in katakana could be an option but if it's dot com it's international & sounds cool as is.

[burnsinternet]

OK, guys. ICANN is depending on us to come up with a solution. Do we put this up to a vote or continue discussion for a few more years.

:p

Just kiddin'! It is interesting to hear such different perspectives.

[idnowner]

I think those of us living here would probably agree
.com as is is better than an alias probably just like China.
It's my personal opinion but any Japanese businessman would not want dot com to equal .会社. Company standing has value in Japan.
Having it in katakana could be an option but if it's dot com it's international & sounds cool as is.

The English .com may be more acceptable to Japanese people, than other non-English speakers/countries, but there apparently will be some equivalent, so, from what you're saying, Japanese people may actually prefer to use .com instead of .会社 or .コム?

[555]

What iyo is more desirable in japan, idn.com or idn.jp?
Also, do you feel the same on .jp (prefer for it not to be mapped and just remain english .jp?)

Thanks Olney.

I think those of us living here would probably agree
.com as is is better than an alias probably just like China.
It's my personal opinion but any Japanese businessman would not want dot com to equal .会社. Company standing has value in Japan.
Having it in katakana could be an option but if it's dot com it's international & sounds cool as is.

[Olney]

.会社 means company in Japanese. If JPRS is involved in the selection of what com could alias to .会社 might not be the best choice. You don't want a web site inferring it's a company when it's not. That's the problem I see. For ICANN or anyone else outside of Japan it might be OK but locally .co.jp means you have a registered company or corporation.

We can't say there is a preference currently. It will be determined by new sites. Yes dot coms are out there & someone might refer to 価格.com but that's a major site that doesn't own their IDN. JPRS is doing a really good job at promoting IDN dot jp & have made it cheaper than dot com. Some popular registries don't offer IDNs except for IDN.jp. This is the situation I'm looking at.

But awareness is what's going to get people using IDNs. JPRS doesn't make a dime off of IDN.coms, so they never help out registries with anything other than IDN.jp every article sponsored by them usually only mentions IDN.jp.

I won't be letting go of either though. Develop what you want your target audience to see.

[IDNCowboy]

What iyo is more desirable in japan, idn.com or idn.jp?
Also, do you feel the same on .jp (prefer for it not to be mapped and just remain english .jp?)

Thanks Olney.
whether they want to offer idn.jp and idn.idn individually or as a group will be up to JPRS.. as what the icann idn boards have stated is the most likely situation - giving the countries the choice.

[Rubber Duck]

"test-bed" is just a term VeriSign used to protect them legally as a common practice any commercial company would use. Our registered IDN.com domains are in VeriSign's real system like any other ASCII.com domains. "test-bed" is already a thing of the past without formally declaring it.

The Verisign Test Bed is over. It was over the moment the went from RACE to Punycode, i.e. before you and I got involved!

[touchring]

The English .com may be more acceptable to Japanese people, than other non-English speakers/countries, but there apparently will be some equivalent, so, from what you're saying, Japanese people may actually prefer to use .com instead of .会社 or .コム?


The following is enough proof for me (note, where sex.com lies):

検索数　2007年 4月
検索数 キーワード

1189049 価格 com
39139 一休 com
23168 財布 com
16832 比較 com
11363 国内線 com
10651 カリビアン com
10112 名前 com
9822 エネオス com
9815 動画 発掘 com
8199 アキバ 系 com
6755 エッチ 動画 com
6382 sex com
5305 悩み com


http://www.google.com/trends?q=+.com%2C+.jp&ctab=0&geo=JP&date=all&sort=0