Welcome Tina [Archive] - IDN Forums - Internationalized Domain Names

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 12:37 AM

I actually just replied to an email on the same topic from a user on this forum yesterday - so my reply might be somewhere else on the forum.

If/how you would translate an existing gTLD into an IDN TLD, and if so, would the operator be the current registry operator or a new entity are all policy questions.
These policy decisions are not made by ICANN staff but are being dealt with by the GNSO (with some assistance from the GAC, ccNSO and ALC that all are working on IDN policy questions).

The GNSO is the Generic Names Supporting Organization that is tasked under the ICANN Bylaws to generate policy recommendations for the gTLDs. More information can be found at http://gnso.icann.org (please let me know if you need more details about the work of ICANN’s supporting organizations and advisory committees).

(similarly there is a ccTLD Supporting Organization (ccNSO) and a Government Advisory Committee (GAC) working on the policies on the cTLD front).

IF it is decided that the exisiting operator of .TLD should operate some version of ".IDN-TLD" then there is the question of how that is done. Aliasing, which would mean that <domain.TLD> and <domain.IDN-TLD> goes to the same registrant - or some other way with sunrise rules, or first-come-first serve -- is all open questions as well.

I understand the concern and interest from those who have registered <IDN-domain.TLD>, but unfortunately I am not able to help with much guidance yet. We have to wait and see what the policy decisions are going to be.

---------------
What's the Hindi Word for Dot-Com?
http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1374...ighlight=Dname (What's the Hindi Word for Dot-Com?)

so, while this indeed was great coverage and a great story, I am not sure what other questions are to be answered in the thread on that topic (that I did not answer above)?

If you want normal use of IDNs then help us define what 'normal' is and go to that evaluation forum that is set up to cover user experience and expectations. That is, http://idn.icann.org

----------------

Dingbats banned? -
http://www.idnforums.com/forums/1384...light=Dingbats (Dingbats banned?)

I might need to take a closer look at this one. However, if all you are asking is why symbols can't resolve in your browser - then that is because your browser implemented the IDNA protocol that does not allow for resolution of symbols. The fact that the name is registered may have to do with the testbed that was initiated back in 2001 - however in this testbed it was never (to my knowledge) a promise that the IDNs would work. I beleiev that all gTLd registries are following the IDN guidelines under their contract with ICANN, today, that is, no registration of symbols. If you believe otherwise please let me know and I will passs that on to our complaince team for investigation.

So this was a rather quick reply to some of the topics asked for above - I hope it answered all questions, but please let me know if you have any follow-up questions or concerns.

Tina

Olney

17th October 2007, 01:11 AM

I guess another thing that pops up is
Why do press releases refer to IDNs as "coming out by the end of 2008".
Together I'm sure we as a group have invested hundreds of thousands in what we believe to be IDNs.
Because of this many view current IDNs as a test, &/or something that could possibly be phased out even. These statements seem to come from ICANN itself so many believe they will wait till these "real IDNs" come out next year.

I only see this in English, here in Japan they promote the IDN.jp as this is what you've been waiting for.

zenmarketing

17th October 2007, 01:18 AM

I understand the concern and interest from those who have registered <IDN-domain.TLD>, but unfortunately I am not able to help with much guidance yet. We have to wait and see what the policy decisions are going to be.

Tina, welcome to the site. I have one question that's been on my mind for a while:

As registrants, what routes do we have available to affect these policy decisions?

Giant

17th October 2007, 01:26 AM

Welcome Tina. To be humble is to be great. You have done an excellent job.

thegenius1

17th October 2007, 02:09 AM

Welcome Ms. Dam , we are pleased to have you amongst us :)

ca191s

17th October 2007, 02:11 AM

Hi!TinaDam

You are very good!

Doubtless

You brought some fresh airs

ca191s

Steve Clarke

17th October 2007, 02:18 AM

Fka200

17th October 2007, 02:33 AM

Without this commitment to IDNS, by the members here, and on other IDN forums, over the last few years, it is doubtful that they (IDNS) would be in the position they are today.

IDNs are amazing for people who cannot speak English. I see a bright future with them. What Steve has said is absolutely true. Without us, IDNs would be nowhere near what they are today. If only I could forward you 10-15 PMs/E-mails I've received from others who truly "hate" IDNs... you would know what I'm talking about. We've developed these IDNs and caused a mini-awareness. It would be great if we could know what was going on and be included and thought of with any future decisions.

irc

17th October 2007, 02:40 AM

Welcome Tina:)
As an idner,I hope you help promoting the development of IDNs fast.
Thanks.:)

bwhhisc

17th October 2007, 03:40 AM

I understand the concern and interest from those who have registered <IDN-domain.TLD>, but unfortunately I am not able to help with much guidance yet. We have to wait and see what the policy decisions are going to be.

Hello Tina and welcome to our forum. Very much appreciate you stopping by and answering questions.

1) Wondering if you have any guess of the timeline for policy decisions that will give us the final outcome regarding idn.com, idn.net etc. and idn.idn. Or will that be on a country by country basis.

2) Will Verisign be given the rights to any equivalent of .com in idn version?

3) Verisign put forth the proposal for DNAME. Can you tell us the pros and cons of DNAME implementation from your perspective?

4) Why is that there is little mention of the fact by ICANN that IDNs are "live and working" today within the existing internet system?

Thank you!

touchring

17th October 2007, 04:05 AM

Thks, Tina.

IF it is decided that the exisiting operator of .TLD should operate some version of ".IDN-TLD" then there is the question of how that is done. Aliasing, which would mean that <domain.TLD> and <domain.IDN-TLD> goes to the same registrant - or some other way with sunrise rules, or first-come-first serve -- is all open questions as well.

This means more reg fee to incur!! Was one of the scenario i considered. :o

IDNCowboy

17th October 2007, 04:08 AM

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 04:31 AM

I guess another thing that pops up is
Why do press releases refer to IDNs as "coming out by the end of 2008".

The information relating to mid 2008 is related to the fact that the process for introduction of new gTLDs currently is expected to be available by mid 2008. Now, the technical part needs to be ready as well in order for this process to include "IDN gTLDs". We can't say for sure until we have more results from the tests related to the IDN TLDs that are currently in the root, but that is the goal.

On the cc-front, the ccNSO and the GAC have requested an issues report for IDN policy issues. After the issues report they may vote to start the formal Policy Development (PDP). The best guesses however are that thids PDP will take between 2-7 years - and since a greater need has been expressed the ccNSo and teh GAC are currently discussing whether they can launch a faster process than the PDP and run the two in parallel with the faster process introducing a limited number of "IDN ccTLDs". I think these two groups will have more information by the ICANN LA meeting later this month.

Tina

seamo

17th October 2007, 04:38 AM

Welcome Tina - it is a real privilege to have you on the forum.

We hope you feel welcome, and are able to visit our little community regularly!

Thanks for answering our questions - it is greatly appreciated :)

IDNCowboy

17th October 2007, 04:39 AM

The information relating to mid 2008 is related to the fact that the process for introduction of new gTLDs currently is expected to be available by mid 2008. Now, the technical part needs to be ready as well in order for this process to include "IDN gTLDs". We can't say for sure until we have more results from the tests related to the IDN TLDs that are currently in the root, but that is the goal.

On the cc-front, the ccNSO and the GAC have requested an issues report for IDN policy issues. After the issues report they may vote to start the formal Policy Development (PDP). The best guesses however are that thids PDP will take between 2-7 years - and since a greater need has been expressed the ccNSo and teh GAC are currently discussing whether they can launch a faster process than the PDP and run the two in parallel with the faster process introducing a limited number of "IDN ccTLDs". I think these two groups will have more information by the ICANN LA meeting later this month.

Tina
Another 2-7 years? So we should be paying $ to support this testbed for another decade with the possibility of getting screwed during a sunrise?

Ok, I look forward to that ICANN meeting. Hopefully none of the IDN workshops will be cancelled like last time. ;-(

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 04:40 AM

Tina, welcome to the site. I have one question that's been on my mind for a while:

As registrants, what routes do we have available to affect these policy decisions?

There are a few ways.

One would be to participate in the ALAC work. http://alac.icann.org/ The ALAC is the At-Large Advisory Committee and they have a working group for IDNs.

Another is participating in the tests at http://idn.icann.org - this is all about user expectation and expectations.

Another is the more technical oriented protocol revision, which takes places under the IETF. Next meeting is in Vancouver in December, but most work takes place via emails. http://www.ietf.org

Depending on how close you are to your registrars you may also be able to influence them and in that way work through the registrars constituency.

Depending on whether or not you are a Government representative you might be able to join your governments representative in the GAC. http://gac.icann.org

Maybe you can ask application providers to make chnages that you would like to see....although this is also an anticipated result of the idn.icann.org

If the characters you would like to use in domain names are not in Unicode yet (the IDN protocol is based on Unicode) then work with the UTC on getting it included.

ICANN sometimes have forums for public comments, keep an eye on http://icann.org or http://icann.org/topics/idn and the associated RSS feeds...

...ok there are other ways, but its getting late here. Let me know if you can use any of the above.

Tina

IDNCowboy

17th October 2007, 04:42 AM

There are a few ways.

One would be to participate in the ALAC work. http://alac.icann.org/ The ALAC is the At-Large Advisory Committee and they have a working group for IDNs.

Another is participating in the tests at http://idn.icann.org - this is all about user expectation and expectations.

Another is the more technical oriented protocol revision, which takes places under the IETF. Next meeting is in Vancouver in December, but most work takes place via emails. http://www.ietf.org

Depending on how close you are to your registrars you may also be able to influence them and in that way work through the registrars constituency.

Depending on whether or not you are a Government representative you might be able to join your governments representative in the GAC. http://gac.icann.org

Maybe you can ask application providers to make chnages that you would like to see....although this is also an anticipated result of the idn.icann.org

If the characters you would like to use in domain names are not in Unicode yet (the IDN protocol is based on Unicode) then work with the UTC on getting it included.

ICANN sometimes have forums for public comments, keep an eye on http://icann.org or http://icann.org/topics/idn and the associated RSS feeds...

...ok there are other ways, but its getting late here. Let me know if you can use any of the above.

Tina
Tina, in the past many of us have posted on the ICANN IDN boards only to have our questions unanswered - then months later the board would be "closed" due to inactivity(because people know their questions aren't being answered) then 're-opened"

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 04:43 AM

Welcome, Tina.

I would also like to reiterate what Olney has stated.

Many of the forum members here, have invested heavily in IDNS...
when many mainline domainers, were bocking at these domains, and those that would have a belief that they would/could be successful.

Without this commitment to IDNS, by the members here, and on other IDN forums, over the last few years, it is doubtful that they (IDNS) would be in the position they are today.

That certainly must count, in any future decisions, by ICANN or their governing bodies.

Kindest Regards....Steve.

IDNs have been a topic of discussion for a very long time. I know at least part of the community would have liked to see full IDNs earlier. I think from the time we launched the IDN Porgram we have gone through the excerzies necessary. and there may be a few more to come.

As I think I mentioned in an earlier post, ICANN as the organisation does not make the policy decisions, so I can only urge you to participate (see suggestions above).

Tina

IDNs are amazing for people who cannot speak English. I see a bright future with them. What Steve has said is absolutely true. Without us, IDNs would be nowhere near what they are today. If only I could forward you 10-15 PMs/E-mails I've received from others who truly "hate" IDNs... you would know what I'm talking about. We've developed these IDNs and caused a mini-awareness. It would be great if we could know what was going on and be included and thought of with any future decisions.

So obviously I think IDns are a good thing and will make things a lot easier - especially for those who would like local communication using characters from scripts different than the basic Latin. However, trust me I get a lot of concerns and questiosn from people who are not feeling the same way.

But that is what the Internet is all about - it is what the bottom-up processes are about so that it is the users and the businesses on the Internet that push the development forward. In the case of IDNs this has been difficult from both technical, policy and political and linguistic standpoint because all these areas have split opinions.

However, at this point we have a lot of groups working in the same direction. I think this will end well and it is offcourse nice to see all the support from this group too.

Tina

IDNCowboy

17th October 2007, 04:49 AM

IDNs have been a topic of discussion for a very long time. I know at least part of the community would have liked to see full IDNs earlier. I think from the time we launched the IDN Porgram we have gone through the excerzies necessary. and there may be a few more to come.

As I think I mentioned in an earlier post, ICANN as the organisation does not make the policy decisions, so I can only urge you to participate (see suggestions above).

Tina (IF)
Is Verisign going to be put in charge of what is to be done if they are given .com equivalent for the .idn ?

So pretty much once you give it to Verisign they would decide whether to give it to us or charge us....

Hmm since its Verisign they will likely charge us! Hopefully the working groups will set the rules of what is to be done by the registries that get a .idn version.

I think Verisign would sue ICANN if they aren't given all the .com variants in other languages. Also if another registry got the .idn of the .com equivalent fat chance there will be dname. They would most likely charge $40/year.

I'm happy that you are here tonight answering questions. I wish someone from ICANN would have joined these boards earlier. They could have seen from a first person perspective what is going on here and asked questions.

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 04:57 AM

Hello Tina and welcome to our forum. Very much appreciate you stopping by and answering questions.

1) Wondering if you have any guess of the timeline for policy decisions that will give us the final outcome regarding idn.com, idn.net etc. and idn.idn. Or will that be on a country by country basis.

See one of the aove comments. One a gTLD front the goal is mid 2008 for applications - then offcourse it requires some entity to apply to become an IDN TLD operator and pass through the evaluations and launch. On the ccTLD front, if the "faster-than-PDP" is launched then they will aim at the same timeline. As you may know ICANN has a different relationship with ccTLD registry operators than with gTLD Operators so the processes are anticipated to be somewhat different.

2) Will Verisign be given the rights to any equivalent of .com in idn version?

This is a policy question.

3) Verisign put forth the proposal for DNAME. Can you tell us the pros and cons of DNAME implementation from your perspective?

This is a longer topic. It is not so much about DNAME, but about aliasing. From a personal opinion this has to do with either promoting competition or securing IP rights. It is also one of the issues under policy discussions. In the IDN Program at ICANN I have a placeholder for analysing potential methods for providing aliasing but this is not yet initiated.

4) Why is that there is little mention of the fact by ICANN that IDNs are "live and working" today within the existing internet system?

That is a mistake and not the intention at all. We are well aware of the IDN implementation at the second level of various TLDs. The experience from this implementation and use is what is driving the IDN TLD development. I will try to see if we can find a way to make this more obvious.

Hope this helps,
Tina

Thks, Tina.

This means more reg fee to incur!! Was one of the scenario i considered. :o

You are right - one of the benefits for the registrant is that aliasing does not result in more registration fees, but the other mentioned options might. There is a middle way where the registry/registrar offer the <domain.TLD> and <domain.IDN-TLD> as a bulk for the same price.

IDNCowboy

17th October 2007, 05:04 AM

You are right - one of the benefits for the registrant is that aliasing does not result in more registration fees, but the other mentioned options might. There is a middle way where the registry/registrar offer the <domain.TLD> and <domain.IDN-TLD> as a bulk for the same price.
Hi Tina,

You have been very helpful thanks. Hopefully there will be a way in which each party will be happy. Maybe they could follow in CNNIC's footsteps and offer the chinese .cn variant to those that own the .cn. (the .idn variant of .cn is only seen within china's borders).

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 05:05 AM

Tina,

If the tld operator gets .dname and requires a sunrise period for idn.com holders it will be a PR nightmare for Verisign. You will practically be screwing all of us after we helped verisign & icann's idn testbed. Many of us have spent thousands of dollars developing our sites.

You should take a look at domainguru's thai site. He's getting tons of pageviews.

With DNAME (or as I prefer aliasing, since DNAME is not a solution to aliasing that has been proven to work....not to mention what about lower levels than the second or third depending on the TLD?) there can't be a sunrise. If you aliase one TLD to another then that means that everything in the zone for the one will automatically work under the other.

Tina

IDNCowboy

17th October 2007, 05:07 AM

With DNAME (or as I prefer aliasing, since DNAME is not a solution to aliasing that has been proven to work....not to mention what about lower levels than the second or third depending on the TLD?) there can't be a sunrise. If you aliase one TLD to another then that means that everything in the zone for the one will automatically work under the other.

Tina
So are you saying that DNAME has been tested and it is pretty much a no go?
What are the other ways of aliasing? NS Records?

I picture one day that individuals from all walks of life will be able to use domain names in their native language. They could type .com in any language and end up at the same site instead of 1000 possibilities. Having 1000 possibilities is just opening up a can of worms and will make countries more likely to find the opportunity to pull away and form their own internet within their borders. Having DNAME will make the internet more unified and less disrupted.

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 05:15 AM

Another 2-7 years? So we should be paying $ to support this testbed for another decade with the possibility of getting screwed during a sunrise?

Ok, I look forward to that ICANN meeting. Hopefully none of the IDN workshops will be cancelled like last time. ;-(

wow, you guys are hard to keep up with :)

IDN on the second level are not a testbed. The idn.icann.org evaluation forum does not cost anything (you also cant make registrations).

The 2-7 year view is the reason that the ccNSO and GAC are trying to see if they can do soemthing faster. Is this is initiated then they are aiming at mid 2008, just like the GNSO is aiming at.

Looking forward to seeing you in LA as well - since I don't really know who you are please make sure to catch me at one of the meetings.

Tina

Tina, in the past many of us have posted on the ICANN IDN boards only to have our questions unanswered - then months later the board would be "closed" due to inactivity(because people know their questions aren't being answered) then 're-opened"

I can only say I'm sorry about that. I hope it wont happen again and will try my best to make sure it will not. It can be hard with limited ressources to reply back to everything but we really try.

Tina

Fka200

17th October 2007, 05:20 AM

Looking forward to seeing you in LA as well - since I don't really know who you are please make sure to catch me at one of the meetings.

Can anyone go to the meetings?

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 05:23 AM

(IF)
I'm happy that you are here tonight answering questions. I wish someone from ICANN would have joined these boards earlier. They could have seen from a first person perspective what is going on here and asked questions.

Thank you for the warm welcome and all the questions. I don't mean this the wrong way as it certainly is staff responsibility to be responsive to the community, but I did not know about the forum before. All my contact details are available online and so in return i wish soemone from the forum had contacted me earlier....with 24 hours in a day its impossible to notice all forums and blogs and everything. So let's just say its better late than never :)

touchring

17th October 2007, 05:24 AM

If the tld operator gets .dname and requires a sunrise period for idn.com holders it will be a PR nightmare for Verisign. You will practically be screwing all of us after we helped verisign & icann's idn testbed. Many of us have spent thousands of dollars developing our sites.

As you mentioned, China already aliases .china (idn) to .cn, and .company(idn) to .company(idn).cn. .com.cn has no IDN support. So aliasing is nothing new, and proven to work.

Now, if there's no aliasing, imagine if .ком is not aliased to .com. Every mother father son hacker in Russia is going to register any bank or credit card company name they can get hold of for their scam ops.

Take for example, bank of russia:

1. БанкРоссии.com -> Bank of Russia owns this.
2. БанкРоссии.ком -> Hacker owns this!

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 05:28 AM

So are you saying that DNAME has been tested and it is pretty much a no go?

No, it has not been tested as an aliasing method at the top level, as far as I am aware.

What are the other ways of aliasing? NS Records?

Not directly, but some have considered using NS records and leaving the registry operator to ensure the two zones are the same. Whether or not this is technical possible I also dont know. Another option would be for ICANN to ask the IETF for advize on how to provide a technical solution that would enable aliaising. It's a topic we need to look into if this is what the community wants. At present though I don't have the ressources for this, but please keep in mind that if we were to wait for aliasing function then we would not be this far with IDN TLDs inserted as NS-records.

Can anyone go to the meetings?

Yes, the ICANN meeting is open and free of charge (except for travel and accommodation if needed). There are only a few meetings there that tales place under closed doors. You can find the agenda and information at http://www.icann.org (see the link to LA meeting in the left side bar)

As you mentioned, China already aliases .china (idn) to .cn, and .company(idn) to .company(idn).cn. .com.cn has no IDN support. So aliasing is nothing new, and proven to work.

The way that the IDNs under .cn is working is via the Chinese ISPs appending the ".cn" part, or via the user downloading a plug-in. I don't believe it has been established that these are technical stable solutions on a global basis.

ca191s

17th October 2007, 05:39 AM

Hi TinaDam

Some rumors said that, you will turn IDN.COM to IDN.IDN?

Is really? Please confirmed

TinaDam

17th October 2007, 05:44 AM

Hi TinaDam

Some rumors said that, you will turn IDN.COM to IDN.IDN?

Is really? Please confirmed

Let me try to make this clear. ICANN staff does not make policy decisions. whether or not <domain.tld> and <domain.IDN-TLD> will be aliased, go to the same registrant etc, is a policy question. See some of the above posts and you will see a status about the policy development work.

However, I am working on making IDN TLDs a reality. That is what the testing at http://idn.icann.org is all about. We want to make sure that the technology is stable enough to move to production (which will enable registrations) under IDN TLDs.

Tina

haomi

17th October 2007, 05:52 AM

Welcome, Tina.

Rubber Duck

17th October 2007, 05:57 AM

Tina, I would implore you to consider the economic impact that these delays are having on Asian economies and try to communicate that fact to the representatives that probably don't really understand this. Delays mean lost potential human development. To understand this you only need to look at Japan, where the use of the Address bar in the browser is little understood. Japanese use search mainly Yahoo and then Bookmark. The dysfunctionalism is extremely costly.

Secondly, I would also like to make the point that is not such important that we arrive tomorrow, but that we all have some idea of where we are going. Most internet users Worldwide relate strongly to dot com. They need to know what is happening in terms of representing dot com in the Root, and how that is going to affect their investment in their own Intellectual Property Rights, which is largely a separate issue than those of Verisign. Investment is about confidence. People need a clear road map to work to.

Much more pressure needs to be exerted on Browser publishers. Browser support is still actually a much bigger issue than even putting IDN.IDN into the Root. Mozilla for a start needs to be told that they are not the one chartered to determine policy and that Verisign is responsible to ICANN and not Mozilla. At the same time clarity is required on what is going to happen to the legacy domains that Verisign has registered in mixed scripts, symbols and dingbats. If these domains are going to be useless or deleted people need to understand how they are going to be affected. If you can sort out this issue then the problem of Mozilla not White Listing dot com should go away. Verisign is not going to take a lead here. It really isn't their position to do so.

On the communication front, you have done a great job in recent week getting Mr Twomney on message. Keep up the good work. As far as press releases are concerned, it is extremely important to get the kind of syndication going on in the English speaking World to happen in Japanese, Arabic, Russian and Hindi, as well as perhaps some European languages. The Chinese are very good at translating it themselves and doing their own syndication, but for the others press releases in the their own languages to major mouth pieces should be an important goal.

Olney

17th October 2007, 06:03 AM

Also Tina
The members here are multinationals from around the globe, with a vast majority in Asia. Any answers provided by you will end up translated & posted in various global domain forums. You may experience repeat questions by those who of course have concerns that might affect the market they invest, develop for or reside in.

rhys

17th October 2007, 06:47 AM

And in case, no one mentioned it before, we all agree that you are as of this moment our forum's best looking member! Welcome we appreciate you being here.

jacksonm

17th October 2007, 07:24 AM

Greetings, Tina.

It's very nice to see you coming here to answer our questions and discuss the current state of affairs in the IDN scene. I assume that you are pretty busy with your work, but it would be really fine if you could find time to pop in every now and then and say hey.

One of the burning issues on my mind is that why is Verisign permitted to avoid publishing and enforcing an IDN policy which prohibits registration of unnaturally mixed-script domains? One of the key arguments against IDNs, as I am sure that you are aware of, is that they allow spoofing of existing .com domains - the issue is strongest with cyrillic and greek letters which resemble ascii letters. As I understand the situation, if ICANN allows a registry to offer IDNs then that registry must publish a policy such as this for registrars to follow. As a result of Verisign's refusal to stop registration of mixed-script spoofing/phishing domains, Mozilla has taken a vigilante approach to security and implemented a whitelisting mechanism into their Firefox browser, whereby only those registries which disallow registration of phishing domains are whitelisted and display unicode in the address bar - all others (.com, .net) will display punycode in the address bar.

Could you please give your thoughts about this situation?

.

bramiozo

17th October 2007, 09:04 AM

Welcome to our underground lair Tina :) .

What is the movement in the IDNA-protocol development, will there be a new release anytime soon? At domain pulse 2007 you mentioned that the revised protocol might cause incompatibility of the present IDN.gtld's, does this still apply ?

http://www.ispam.nl/archives/536/verslag-domain-pulse-2007-in-zwitserland-dag-2/

A bit on the policy though, IDN's in the second level have been out of the testphase for several years yet a changed IDNA-protocol might still nullify the rights of all present idn-owners, don't you think currrent ctld's will obstruct any such action even before the registrants start a lawsuit?
Think of .kr and .de (.ch,.at), there is little chance these registries will clean the zonefiles for idn just because someone at ICANN got the idea to, as a figure of speech, shift a view spaces and dots in the IDNA-protocol.

You want to seperate your technical activities from the policy-side but it's too late for that, IDN and the current IDNA-protocol are now intertwined with the rights of hundreds of thousands of registrants. You cannot (as an engineer) devise a technology which forces a policy change which affects hundreds of thousands of legal subjects and at the same time deny responsibility for any damages. I sincerely hope that the technical evaluations are combined with some ethical discussions.

alpha

17th October 2007, 09:50 AM

.... The best guesses however are that thids PDP will take between 2-7 years ...
Tina

$even Year$ ! LMAO

With a similar sized budget how come NASA can design, build, test and launch a Mars landing mission in the same time frame.

Seriously - Someones head needs to roll.

bwhhisc

17th October 2007, 10:53 AM

Thank you for the warm welcome and all the questions. I don't mean this the wrong way as it certainly is staff responsibility to be responsive to the community, but I did not know about the forum before. All my contact details are available online and so in return i wish soemone from the forum had contacted me earlier....with 24 hours in a day its impossible to notice all forums and blogs and everything. So let's just say its better late than never.

No doubt our group here could probably keep you busy full time answering our questions! You insights and answers
are certainly appreciated and we are glad to have a bit of a conduit up to ICANN about our concerns. I guess if I had
one wish it would be to get the words out that "IDNs are here, and thousands of IDN sites are live today".

Most domainers have NO IDEA how large the foreign language internet is, and how many websites and pages there are.
My guess is they will soon collectively exceed the English language pages, but who knows. Are there any statistics for this?

Some of the members here speak limited English, and Olney is right that your comments will span from here to the
Chinese, Japanese, and Russian domains forums very quickly. Just a quick check at the Chinese idnclub.com has
your name and some translations of information appearing on page 1 already. :)

http://www.idnclub.com/

Edwin

17th October 2007, 11:38 AM

Tina, welcome...

This has already been addressed in this thread to an extent, but definitely bears repeating:-

IDN.com domains work right now today just fine (the search engines will index them, all latest-version browsers will resolve them albeit perhaps with a few weirdnesses on the display front)

Likewise, IDN.cctld domains work right now today just fine (for CCTLD registries that have implemented IDNs)

Regardless of IDN.IDN's timetable, status, stability, desirability, ultimate implementation policy etc. it is VITAL - I repeat VITAL - to ensure that the message gets through that there's no need to wait for an indefinite, uncertain IDN.IDN future to use IDN domains - they work right now!

The fact that the postfix is an ASCII string (.com, .cctld) is a hair that doesn't need to be split since right now folks in non-English locales are able to resolve and type all-ASCII domains anyway, so they can certainly cope with domains that are IDN.ASCII.

But to date all ICANN communications that I've seen on the subject of IDNs have either ignored or brushed aside the reality that there are hundreds of thousands of IDNs already registered, already working and already usable... and no practical reasons other than widespread dissemination of their existence why those hundreds of thousands couldn't be hundreds of millions.

To draw a motor industry parallel, IDN.IDN might be the diesel engine of the car world. Cars already exist and run just fine on gasoline (IDN.ASCII) but the main automotive oversight body (= ICANN) is still talking about carriages and horses and is suggesting that only diesel cars are, in fact, cars at all!

In other words, please could you endeavour to spread the word internally - and externally - that the "IDN" situation being discussed by ICANN is a very specific, specialized subset of "all IDNs", that is, the subset of IDNs where the postfix is also an IDN? This has never been made clear, and it's a distinction that I don't think many ICANN folks are even considering...

Failure to slay this misconception is likely to set back the process of IDN adoption far more than delays or confusion about IDN.IDN allocation/distribution ever will!

domainguru

17th October 2007, 12:07 PM

Welcome to you Tina,

I can only reiterate what Edwin said. Please don't focus entirely on IDN.IDN as though IDN.com doesn't exist, or is part of a "test".

I own a Thai site using an IDN.com domain name which currently gets up to 10,000 daily visitors, but when I try and look for local sponsors and advertisers, it is very difficult, partly because nobody in Thailand knows that IDN.com are here and working.

Sure, talk about the IDN.IDN "future", but also please spread the message that IDNs are alive and kicking now, not just "something for the future".

Thanks for listening! :)

burnsinternet

17th October 2007, 12:44 PM

Ms. Dam,

We all appreciate what you do. You have become rather famous around here. We all look forward to the day when IDNs are just known as 'domains' by the general public.

Currently, we all receive 'traffic' to our IDN domains. Some domains get an enormous amount of traffic. German .de IDN domains are the obvious winners. In my experience, Latin domains (Swedish, Spanish, French, etc.) and Cyrillic domains (Russian, Ukrainian, etc.) get the most traffic. You are not fighting an uphill battle. I hope this encourages you to keep fighting.

We understand, in some ways, the difficulties you face. I hope you are not treated the same way we are treated when mentioning IDNs. Many people out there are obstinate. Don't let it get you down.

I do have some questions - unrelated to IDN policy.... Where are you from and how did you become interested in this subject? Also, how do you keep yourself excited about your job in the face of so many obstacles?

Happy to have you here.

Thanks,

Jerry

touchring

17th October 2007, 12:46 PM

Ok, so.... when can we expect a decision to be made for alias or ns or dname?

Many of us are just waiting for this piece of news, having given up on IE7 auto upgrade to happen anytime soon.
auto

:^)

Rubber Duck

17th October 2007, 12:54 PM

Decisions get made at Board meetings which happen at summits, and are generally derived from the output of the scheduled meetings. As Tina has indicated many times, staff members are just not empowered to make the decision that many of you would like.

I think we can expect some progress at Los Angeles (probably mostly in relation to ccTLD policy), but things definitely need to crystalize in Delhi. I think this is an excellent venue for the Spring Meeting, and should help to put some real focus on matters.

domainstosell

17th October 2007, 02:15 PM

Welcome Tina.

I don't mean to "pile on" as it were, but I think the importance of both Edwin's and Rubber Duck's earlier posts need to be stressed again:

As Edwin said, IDN.com are currently a reality, and there needs to be more of an educational emphasis on this fact. For ICANN to come out and say "yes, these are out here, and they work" would lend a considerable amount of credibility to this fact, and many of the misconceptions in the general media (the glurge and misinformation due to lack of research) could be corrected.

Combining this with RD's point about the need for translated press releases to reach and educate non-English speakers would go a long way toward the education and acceptance of IDNs that we are all looking for, both as investors and webmasters as well as from ICANN's point of view. I understand that there are only so many hours in the day, and I also recognize the potential expense involved with that kind of PR undertaking, but even making sure to include the international markets in the release distribution and allowing (encouraging) them to do their own translations would be a step in the right direction.

Aside from that, though, keep up the great work - we are making headway, and it's an exciting time to be involved with IDNs.

seesawgame

17th October 2007, 03:59 PM

Welcome to TAIWAN this Saturday ;)

Wesker HU

Explorer

17th October 2007, 04:03 PM

The information relating to mid 2008 is related to the fact that the process for introduction of new gTLDs currently is expected to be available by mid 2008. Now, the technical part needs to be ready as well in order for this process to include "IDN gTLDs". We can't say for sure until we have more results from the tests related to the IDN TLDs that are currently in the root, but that is the goal.

On the cc-front, the ccNSO and the GAC have requested an issues report for IDN policy issues. After the issues report they may vote to start the formal Policy Development (PDP). The best guesses however are that thids PDP will take between 2-7 years - and since a greater need has been expressed the ccNSo and teh GAC are currently discussing whether they can launch a faster process than the PDP and run the two in parallel with the faster process introducing a limited number of "IDN ccTLDs". I think these two groups will have more information by the ICANN LA meeting later this month.

Tina

Hi Tina, welcome and thank you for answering our questions!

So, IDN gTLDs could be ready and available earlier than IDN ccTLDs by several years? Am I reading this correctly?

burnsinternet

17th October 2007, 05:59 PM

If you want normal use of IDNs then help us define what 'normal' is and go to that evaluation forum that is set up to cover user experience and expectations. That is, http://idn.icann.org

Guys & Gals! Go to the various discussion sites and ask your questions. The discussion pages are interesting now, but everyone could benefit from discussion on that page. If we want to do our part, we need to use that site. Those new to IDNs are not going to magically find this forum. Please, guys. Help out by posting in the various language areas.

Drewbert

17th October 2007, 06:20 PM

>Let me try to make this clear. ICANN staff does not make policy decisions.

Unless it involves the .xxx gTLD, of course :)

Rubber Duck

17th October 2007, 06:34 PM

>Let me try to make this clear. ICANN staff does not make policy decisions.

Unless it involves the .xxx gTLD, of course :)

Even there, I think you need to understand the distinction between Staff and Board Members!

ala101

17th October 2007, 10:53 PM

Welcome Tina!
:)

bwhhisc

17th October 2007, 11:35 PM

phio

18th October 2007, 12:20 AM

Drewbert

18th October 2007, 02:02 AM

All the interesting IDN discussions in the ICANN LA meeting will be going on behind closed doors.

That's what "bottom-up" means at ICANN. All us un-represented registrants stick our bottom's up, and the people that control ICANN (intellectual property constituency mainly) get their rodgering gear out.

Hurrah for taxation without representation.

Pass the vaseline around.

IDNCowboy

18th October 2007, 02:05 AM

Welcome Tina and the other new members....

If anyone is planning on attending the 30th International ICANN Meeting in Los Angeles drop me a PM. It's coming up quick.

I live nearby and plan to attend on Monday the 29th and Tuesday the 30th.

Or if you need a ride to/from LAX or accomodations, again PM me.

I may also drop by during the weekend in case the agenda changes to see what's up. ;)
welcome to the forum phio
please introduce yourself in general discussion !
members would like to know more about your view of idning in general and what premiums you own. ;-)

TinaDam

18th October 2007, 03:05 AM

Much more pressure needs to be exerted on Browser publishers. Browser support is still actually a much bigger issue than even putting IDN.IDN into the Root. Mozilla for a start needs to be told that they are not the one chartered to determine policy and that Verisign is responsible to ICANN and not Mozilla. At the same time clarity is required on what is going to happen to the legacy domains that Verisign has registered in mixed scripts, symbols and dingbats. If these domains are going to be useless or deleted people need to understand how they are going to be affected. If you can sort out this issue then the problem of Mozilla not White Listing dot com should go away. Verisign is not going to take a lead here. It really isn't their position to do so.

I agree there is a lot of work to be done. However, ICANN has no mandate and does not wat to have any mandate in the applications area.

IDNs are hard and in a grey zone in this regard. The reason being that the protocol sits on the application area. That is why we have the IDNwiki's available so that we can gather the user experiences and expectations. Again, http://idn.icann.org

As a user you have a choice. The various browser developers ave different policies and you should pick the one that fits your expectatiosn the best. The IDNwikis reports however will be amde available and ciommunicated to the browser developers as well. As you can see they are following these wikis and have provided some information about their policies in there as well.

$even Year$ ! LMAO

With a similar sized budget how come NASA can design, build, test and launch a Mars landing mission in the same time frame.

Seriously - Someones head needs to roll.

That si why the policy development groups for the cc-area are discussing a faster approach to match that of the gTLDs. The gTLD space is aiming at being ready for applications in mid 2008. For IDN TLDs to be available for application this requires that the technical wok is done...

Welcome to you Tina,

I can only reiterate what Edwin said. Please don't focus entirely on IDN.IDN as though IDN.com doesn't exist, or is part of a "test".

I own a Thai site using an IDN.com domain name which currently gets up to 10,000 daily visitors, but when I try and look for local sponsors and advertisers, it is very difficult, partly because nobody in Thailand knows that IDN.com are here and working.

Sure, talk about the IDN.IDN "future", but also please spread the message that IDNs are alive and kicking now, not just "something for the future".

Thanks for listening! :)

I can assure you that this is the message going out to the media etc from ICANN. However, I will try to see if there is a way to make this a more consistent message.

Welcome to TAIWAN this Saturday ;)

Wesker HU

Thanks - looking forward to going to Taiwan. Its a full day of IDN sessions which should be interesting. See you there.

Hi Tina, welcome and thank you for answering our questions!

So, IDN gTLDs could be ready and available earlier than IDN ccTLDs by several years? Am I reading this correctly?

At this point it looks like the gTLD policy is further along. However, the cc-space is discussing how to make sure both are available at the same time. I would anticipate more information about this during the ICANN meeting in LA (end October 2007).

All the interesting IDN discussions in the ICANN LA meeting will be going on behind closed doors.

That's what "bottom-up" means at ICANN. All us un-represented registrants stick our bottom's up, and the people that control ICANN (intellectual property constituency mainly) get their rodgering gear out.

Hurrah for taxation without representation.

Pass the vaseline around.

Actually that is not the case. The only closed meeting is that of the GAC. All other meetings are open...with the exception of a few constituencies that sometimes decide to close doors for a very short part of their meetings. As far as I am informed this is not planned for IDNs.

The main IDN meetings in LA will be around policy. The technical matters can be discussed either at the public forum where I will give a status report, or at the IDN booth (this is a new thing).

TinaDam

18th October 2007, 03:21 AM

Tina, the collective greetings here hail from IDNers from around the globe. I see posts from North America,
South America, Europe, China, Singapore, Japan, Thailand, the Middle East, Australia, Russia and more... so far. :)

Thanks again for your fine work on behalf of IDNs and answering our questions.

That sounds great. we need all communities involved - especially at discussing user expectations and experiences.

Sorry to all that I cannot answer all questions. There is a lot of work up to the coming two meetings - Taiwan and LA - but I will make sure to check back at the forum...

bwhhisc

18th October 2007, 03:47 AM

That sounds great. we need all communities involved - especially at discussing user expectations and experiences. Sorry to all that I cannot answer all questions. There is a lot of work up to the coming two meetings - Taiwan and LA - but I will make sure to check back at the forum...

Don't forget to bring "IDNs are LIVE!" T-Shirts for everyone at the meetings. lol :)

Drewbert

18th October 2007, 08:06 AM

Actually that is not the case. The only closed meeting is that of the GAC. All other meetings are open...with the exception of a few constituencies that sometimes decide to close doors for a very short part of their meetings. As far as I am informed this is not planned for IDNs.

Saturday, 27 October, 2007 - 14:00 Saturday, 27 October, 2007 - 18:00 GAC Working Group on IDNs (CLOSED)

Sunday, 28 October, 2007 - 00:00 Sunday, 28 October, 2007 - 10:00 GAC Working Group 1: IDNs in gTLD Space (CLOSED)

Sunday, 28 October, 2007 - 11:15 Sunday, 28 October, 2007 - 13:00 GAC Working Group on IDNs (CLOSED)

Sunday, 28 October, 2007 - 13:00 Sunday, 28 October, 2007 - 14:00 ICANN Board / GAC Joint Working Group (CLOSED)

Sunday, 28 October, 2007 - 14:00 Sunday, 28 October, 2007 - 15:45 GAC Working Group 2&4: Meeting w/ ccNSO Council (CLOSED)

Monday, 29 October, 2007 - 00:00 Monday, 29 October, 2007 - 17:00 ccTLD Technical Meeting

What are they discussing that the Internet Community isn't allowed to be privy to?

The main IDN meetings in LA will be around policy.

Oh. And all this time ICANN was telling everyone it was only concerned about technical things.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050109005033/www.icann.org/new.html

"The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is a technical coordination body for the Internet."

It's amazing how ICANN has managed to thrust it's tentacles out with every budget-bloat-increase it's managed to tax the "Community" of domain registrants with.

That sounds great. we need all communities involved - especially at discussing user expectations and experiences.

The registrant community will be able to get truly involved once we get votes on the Board. Until we do, all this "bottom up" community involvement stuff is largely bullshit. The people with the votes are the ones who call the shots.

Would you like living in a country where someone else gets to vote your leaders, but you don't, yet you're the one paying the tax that finances those leaders?

domainguru

18th October 2007, 09:55 AM

I can assure you that this is the message going out to the media etc from ICANN. However, I will try to see if there is a way to make this a more consistent message.

Its not the message we have seen in the last few months. Even in your own (generally excellent) IDN video (part I) we saw at youtube, you were still inferring IDNs were hypothetical, even in the concrete example you gave of the .se domain, which could quite happily exist today.

How about in the next video you talk about real IDNs that exist today in the .com TLD? Then next time a client that doesn't quite believe IDNs are alive and kicking and not still in the womb, we can just point them to your video?

Believe me, the general perception out there, even amongst techies and IT publications is that IDNs of any flavour aren't a reality yet.

Steve Clarke

18th October 2007, 12:29 PM

Maybe an ICANN video, that states that a large number of IDNS are currently in use, and have been for some time, is in order.

I know they have the tools to deliver this message.....if they really wanted to.

Drewbert

18th October 2007, 04:46 PM

What ICANN SHOULD have done was immediately issue a correction to that recent PR that had the TWOMEY quote in it implying IDN's didn't yet exist.

If I were a "technical coordination body", I'd sure be hiding under a rock after releasing something as technically incorrect as that.

At least have some one with technical writing skills vet your PR please. You DO have someone at ICANN with those skills surely?

TinaDam

19th October 2007, 01:31 AM

Oh. And all this time ICANN was telling everyone it was only concerned about technical things.

http://web.archive.org/web/20050109005033/www.icann.org/new.html

"The Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN) is a technical coordination body for the Internet."

It's amazing how ICANN has managed to thrust it's tentacles out with every budget-bloat-increase it's managed to tax the "Community" of domain registrants with.

The registrant community will be able to get truly involved once we get votes on the Board. Until we do, all this "bottom up" community involvement stuff is largely bullshit. The people with the votes are the ones who call the shots.

Would you like living in a country where someone else gets to vote your leaders, but you don't, yet you're the one paying the tax that finances those leaders?

How do you suggest the processes for allocation of TLDs are being done. To ,e it seems that the bottom-up process with open access in different working groups to those who whish to participate is the most fair way.

Its not the message we have seen in the last few months. Even in your own (generally excellent) IDN video (part I) we saw at youtube, you were still inferring IDNs were hypothetical, even in the concrete example you gave of the .se domain, which could quite happily exist today.

How about in the next video you talk about real IDNs that exist today in the .com TLD? Then next time a client that doesn't quite believe IDNs are alive and kicking and not still in the womb, we can just point them to your video?

Believe me, the general perception out there, even amongst techies and IT publications is that IDNs of any flavour aren't a reality yet.

I can't decide what the press decides to quote me on. They are mostly interested in new items. In regards to the video - exactly right, i did use examples of exisiting SLD IDNs and in the second video i also stress that it is the experience from the SLD implementation and use that drives the TLD area forward.

But as I said, the message has been received and I will see what i can do about it.

IDNCowboy

19th October 2007, 01:34 AM

How do you suggest the processes for allocation of TLDs are being done. To ,e it seems that the bottom-up process with open access in different working groups to those who whish to participate is the most fair way.

I can't decide what the press decides to quote me on. They are mostly interested in new items. In regards to the video - exactly right, i did use examples of exisiting SLD IDNs and in the second video i also stress that it is the experience from the SLD implementation and use that drives the TLD area forward.

But as I said, the message has been received and I will see what i can do about it.
We have been paying for these IDNs even during the "beta" stages. There are a few members on this board with 5000-6000 IDNs. Collectively it adds up especially since IDNs are still in the early stages according to ICANN.
We are stakeholders and IDN developers. We should have a strong say in this process.

irc

19th October 2007, 01:53 AM

TinaDam

19th October 2007, 03:25 AM

We have been paying for these IDNs even during the "beta" stages. There are a few members on this board with 5000-6000 IDNs. Collectively it adds up especially since IDNs are still in the early stages according to ICANN.
We are stakeholders and IDN developers. We should have a strong say in this process.

So a bottom-up process where the community is making the decisions. That is what we have. The ALAC, as mentioned in an earlier post is where most internet users participate http://alac.icann.org -there are also other options depending on who you are and your interest. Please see my earlier post on this.

IDNCowboy

19th October 2007, 03:30 AM

So a bottom-up process where the community is making the decisions. That is what we have. The ALAC, as mentioned in an earlier post is where most internet users participate http://alac.icann.org -there are also other options depending on who you are and your interest. Please see my earlier post on this.
To sum this up.... in other words ICANN couldn't care less..

Public comment doesn't even work...... I don't believe anyone from ICANN reads the boards.

when .com pricing etc was going up ICANN certainly didn't care when people spoke out about it. ICANN just let Verisign roll the red carpet out on top of them....

TinaDam

19th October 2007, 03:46 AM

To sum this up.... in other words ICANN couldn't care less..

Public comment doesn't even work...... I don't believe anyone from ICANN reads the boards.

when .com pricing etc was going up ICANN certainly didn't care when people spoke out about it. ICANN just let Verisign roll the red carpet out on top of them....

That was not what i said. ICANN cares a lot. We care mostly about how different policies affect the end-users, including the registrants. When policies are being developed they are done with a focus on the end-user. See for example the transfer policy which was one of the first policies i implemented at ICANN. It was initiated because a lot of end-users found themselves with problems of transferring away from a registrar they did not not want to work with anymore, due to service, prices, or other reasons. The transfer policy chnaged that and allowed a registrant to transfer registrar if they wanted to (guess i better say there are nine exceptions to this rule).

That policy had ALAC representatives on the working group that implemented it. ALAC provides into to a lot of these topics. I'm sure they could use some help. I am also happy to talk about other options, but I am afraid i dont know this forum members well enough to provide general direction - there a different constituencies under the GNSO (see gnso.icann.org ) that might fit with some of you. You may be registrars, in which case you can work through the registrars constituency. You may be registry operators in which case you can work with either the gTLD registry constituency, or the ccNSO.....in case of comment forums we do read them. In fact on the IDN part we have tried to also reply on the forum to all received comments. There has not been a lot of comments though, but we welcome that - we are now trying a different way, through the wiki's. It is important though that the comments are focused on the topic at hand so we can get the work done...that is IDN exeperinces and expectations. http://idn.icann.org

I sincerely hopes this helps. Just because we are not on all online forums or answering all comments posted on them does not mean that we dont care. We are however only human and with 24hr in a day or which other things than work should be done. I can give numerous examples of staff that work extraordinary long hours, weekends and holiday. We do that also because we think our job is fun - but we still dont reach all - the global community is large.

Tina

markits

19th October 2007, 03:58 AM

I decide to post a welcome message here too, though it is the least significant one.

Welcome, Tina! You are the star here. We have been discussing about you before, thought you would never make your way here. Most of us are thrilled by your arrival to the forum.

Although you have made promise to deliver the message out to the general public that idn.com / .net / .biz are now a reality and they work fine with FF, IE7 etc, I would reiterate other people's concerns on this again. Many here are spending tens of thousands dollars a year on idn.com/net domains and yet ICANN has not done anything to promote them. The new idn.idn proposal and progress has even caused a big confusion: some people on a Chinese idn forum are actually mourning that they are going to lose all their idn.com/net domains (funny but this is true).

I am glad that you have heard our concerns now. Hope something could be done by ICANN for the "stakeholders".

Edwin

19th October 2007, 04:55 AM

I can see there's a lot of pent-up frustration at ICANN (goodness knows, I have a few things that bug me too) but since Tina's now actively willing to participate and listen and try to help, let's try and take a huge collective deep breath and give HER the benefit of the doubt too.

Tina does not defacto equal ICANN (though she has a voice there of course). She wants to listen. So let's make sure we're saying things worth listening TO!

Let's try and make what she listens to constructive (how to spread the word about IDN.com / IDN.cctld working right now, IDN.IDN mapping, etc.) rather than raking over sore spots. The latter may make YOU feel better for a few minutes or so, but it pushes the conversation over into confrontation and hurts the bigger picture.

After all, this seems to be our best chance in ages to get the IDN "cause" moved forward a little along the tracks we all know it should be going...

mulligan

19th October 2007, 04:57 AM

What he said ^

thegenius1

19th October 2007, 05:12 AM

I'm cosigning edwins post as well

IDNCowboy

19th October 2007, 05:17 AM

I'm cosigning edwins post as well
agreed

Rubber Duck

19th October 2007, 05:18 AM

How do you suggest the processes for allocation of TLDs are being done. To ,e it seems that the bottom-up process with open access in different working groups to those who whish to participate is the most fair way.

Really isn't complicated in my view. The Countries thing is not really that complicated generally there will be few points of contention. Get each country that is interested to submit a list of what they want in each language. Short consultation on whether there is conflict. Put anything that that is clearly contentious on hold. Get the Board to short-list according to priority by numbers of people using those languages, and then approve the short-list for immediate delegation.

On gTLDs, the existing gTLDs not sTLDs should be allowed to submit proposals in the eleven languages for Aliasing purposes only. If there is no conflict then these should be passed for immediate delegation. Where there is conflict they should be put on hold.

Then only and only then should all the semantics be discussed. The New GTLD process should not start until these initial delegations have been made and 90% all interested parties are up and running.

Drewbert

19th October 2007, 06:45 AM

So a bottom-up process where the community is making the decisions. That is what we have. The ALAC, as mentioned in an earlier post is where most internet users participate http://alac.icann.org -there are also other options depending on who you are and your interest. Please see my earlier post on this.

Which board members were elected by ALAC?

How can people be said to be making decisions if they don't have board representation?

Making suggestions <> making decisions.

Rubber Duck

19th October 2007, 06:51 AM

From what I have seen. I think this is undoubtedly the case.

What is unfortunate is that in trying to please everyone, ICANN sometimes loses a bit of focus and risks ending up pleasing nobody.

IDN is a project that has been going since 1995, and registrants have been active since 2000. It is now high time that we had something to show for all of this.

What is needed is some quick uncontentious results that will fire the whole project up and get the show on the road.

Clearly the most requirement is in areas like Chinese and Arabic. Like wise dot Com is by far the most used gTLD. A few quick wins would actually enfranchise the vast majority. If you got these behind you, then people would forgive you if it took a little longer to accommodate all the minorities.

Even public acknowledgement and a bit of promotion of IDN.ASCII would go a very long way to creating the impression of some real momentum. This impression of momentum if we are going to the Application issues ironed out in a timely manner.

That was not what i said. ICANN cares a lot. We care mostly about how different policies affect the end-users, including the registrants. When policies are being developed they are done with a focus on the end-user. See for example the transfer policy which was one of the first policies i implemented at ICANN. It was initiated because a lot of end-users found themselves with problems of transferring away from a registrar they did not not want to work with anymore, due to service, prices, or other reasons. The transfer policy chnaged that and allowed a registrant to transfer registrar if they wanted to (guess i better say there are nine exceptions to this rule).

That policy had ALAC representatives on the working group that implemented it. ALAC provides into to a lot of these topics. I'm sure they could use some help. I am also happy to talk about other options, but I am afraid i dont know this forum members well enough to provide general direction - there a different constituencies under the GNSO (see gnso.icann.org ) that might fit with some of you. You may be registrars, in which case you can work through the registrars constituency. You may be registry operators in which case you can work with either the gTLD registry constituency, or the ccNSO.....in case of comment forums we do read them. In fact on the IDN part we have tried to also reply on the forum to all received comments. There has not been a lot of comments though, but we welcome that - we are now trying a different way, through the wiki's. It is important though that the comments are focused on the topic at hand so we can get the work done...that is IDN exeperinces and expectations. http://idn.icann.org

I sincerely hopes this helps. Just because we are not on all online forums or answering all comments posted on them does not mean that we dont care. We are however only human and with 24hr in a day or which other things than work should be done. I can give numerous examples of staff that work extraordinary long hours, weekends and holiday. We do that also because we think our job is fun - but we still dont reach all - the global community is large.

Tina

jacksonm

19th October 2007, 06:55 AM

Clearly the most requirement is in areas like Chinese and Arabic.

Arabic, Chinese, and Japanese are the biggest cases for .com and .net aliasing. I would say Russian as well, but they don't seem to like .com much at all - 9 out of 10 Russian language sites use the .ru extension.

.

blastfromthepast

19th October 2007, 07:19 AM

Arabic, Chinese, and Japanese are the biggest cases for .com and .net aliasing. I would say Russian as well, but they don't seem to like .com much at all - 9 out of 10 Russian language sites use the .ru extension.

.

Wrong priorities. Japanese and Chinese don't truly need .com aliasing, while Russian, Arabic, and Hebrew, all need it very much.

jacksonm

19th October 2007, 07:22 AM

Wrong priorities. Japanese and Chinese don't truly need .com aliasing, while Russian, Arabic, and Hebrew, all need it very much.

Arabic, I agree.

Hebrew is a micro market - approx 15 million speakers.

Russians are 90% .ru. Why would they even care about .com aliasing?

.

thegenius1

19th October 2007, 07:30 AM

Wrong priorities. Japanese and Chinese don't truly need .com aliasing, while Russian, Arabic, and Hebrew, all need it very much.

Correct

bramiozo

19th October 2007, 07:39 AM

let me repost my question ;

What is the movement in the IDNA-protocol development, will there be a new release anytime soon? At domain pulse 2007 you mentioned that the revised protocol might cause incompatibility of the present IDN.gtld's (in general?), does this still apply ?

clipper

19th October 2007, 08:50 AM

I sincerely hopes this helps. Just because we are not on all online forums or answering all comments posted on them does not mean that we dont care. We are however only human and with 24hr in a day or which other things than work should be done. I can give numerous examples of staff that work extraordinary long hours, weekends and holiday. We do that also because we think our job is fun - but we still dont reach all - the global community is large.

Tina

Welcome, Tina, and thank you not only for being here, but also for all of your hard work before participating in this forum.

Here's to reaching all.

Wot

19th October 2007, 09:59 AM

Welcome Tina , great you have found us.

There are some very smart guys on this forum and I am sure they will be able to provide a lot of the neccesary impetus to ensure that IDN's rapidly gain their rightful place on the internet.

Most of them are easy to work and have the necessary expertise to assist "from the bottom up".

Again,

Welcome

bwhhisc

19th October 2007, 10:10 AM

I can see there's a lot of pent-up frustration at ICANN (goodness knows, I have a few things that bug me too) but since Tina's now actively willing to participate and listen and try to help, let's try and take a huge collective deep breath and give HER the benefit of the doubt too. Tina does not defacto equal ICANN (though she has a voice there of course). She wants to listen. So let's make sure we're saying things worth listening TO!

Let's try and make what she listens to constructive (how to spread the word about IDN.com / IDN.cctld working right now, IDN.IDN mapping, etc.) rather than raking over sore spots. The latter may make YOU feel better for a few minutes or so, but it pushes the conversation over into confrontation and hurts the bigger picture. After all, this seems to be our best chance in ages to get the IDN "cause" moved forward a little along the tracks we all know it should be going...

Well said, this is a good time to get our views and opinions heard.
Lets stay with that message in a professional manner.

domainguru

19th October 2007, 10:16 AM

The thing is, as much as we all like to debate / argue amongst ourselves, most of us would agree 95% on what we want to say to ICANN, what we would like to see happen in the next couple of years.

If Tina is bombarded with 30 different posts every day from 30 different people, she just isn't going to have the time to respond to them, or perhaps even digest them.

Perhaps now is the time to think about having a IDNF -> ICANN "liason officer", an interface between Tina and "us lot"?

And no I'm not volunteering, just putting the idea out.

mulligan

19th October 2007, 10:31 AM

Perhaps now is the time to think about having a IDNF -> ICANN "liason officer", an interface between Tina and "us lot"?

And no I'm not volunteering, just putting the idea out.

I'll take it on ...

JColson

19th October 2007, 10:47 AM

Excellent idea and thanks Mulligan for volunteering.

Rubber Duck

19th October 2007, 11:37 AM

I'll take it on ...

I'll second or third that. I am sure Blackops will give me a character reference if needed. ;)

Explorer

19th October 2007, 12:41 PM

Arabic, I agree.

Hebrew is a micro market - approx 15 million speakers.

Russians are 90% .ru. Why would they even care about .com aliasing?

.

Because what Russian users (or anyone else for that matter) care about and what Verisign is going to do with its own .com brand are two different things.

Steve Clarke

19th October 2007, 01:15 PM

The Russians seem to like some of the Russian .com domains I have, they receive steady traffic and clicks.

jacksonm

19th October 2007, 01:21 PM

The Russians seem to like some of the Russian .com domains I have, they receive steady traffic and clicks.

Of course there is a difference between search traffic and the preferred extension of businesses. I think we all know that searchers will click on just about anything which makes it to the first page of serps.

Try for yourself, just search any Russian product term in search engine of choice and count how many of the first page, second page, and so on are .ru. Nearly all results are .ru in my experience. When Russians build Russian language websites, they use the .ru extension, overwhelmingly.

.

thegenius1

19th October 2007, 03:17 PM

And i also think Ms. Dam should get her own speacial sub forum on the site.

touchring

19th October 2007, 04:26 PM

Arabic, I agree.

Hebrew is a micro market - approx 15 million speakers.

Russians are 90% .ru. Why would they even care about .com aliasing?

.

hey, what's the rumor about the $XXX,XXX hebrew sale? Who was the lucky guy or gal here?

IDNCowboy

19th October 2007, 04:33 PM

hey, what's the rumor about the $XXX,XXX hebrew sale? Who was the lucky guy or gal here?
If there was then Monte would still be pimping it.....

However Jackson I won't be surprised if there are many xxx,xxx hebrew sales in the future. They have alot of money.

jacksonm

19th October 2007, 05:13 PM

However Jackson I won't be surprised if there are many xxx,xxx hebrew sales in the future. They have alot of money.

It wouldn't surprise me, either. But that's not the point. From the perspective of ICANN, the higher priority aliasing should go to the languages with the highest number of users.

.

Rubber Duck

19th October 2007, 05:17 PM

Absolutely correct. It is about getting as many people enfranchised as possible, as soon as possible.

I also suspect that operating in English presents fewer barrier their than many other places.

Yes, get everyone online, enfranchise everyone, but go for the big wins first!

Some people no doubt would like to access the Internet in Runic, but it should hardly be a priority.

It wouldn't surprise me, either. But that's not the point. From the perspective of ICANN, the higher priority aliasing should go to the languages with the highest number of users.

.

Drewbert

19th October 2007, 06:28 PM

Here's a question....

Why is it that Verisign followed the wishes of the CJK community by imposing variant blocking within Con/Net, yet ICANN has released simplified and traditional TLD's of the same word ("example")?

Doesn't that make variant blocking a total waste of time?

Did the CJK guys say it was OK?

Please provide a link to the discussions that went on about this.

Thanks.

Rubber Duck

19th October 2007, 06:50 PM

The point of Variant Blocking is to avoid user confusion.

As both these domains are owned by the same body, and point to the same information the problem hardly arises, and the temporary nature of these domains makes the objection a bit of a mute point.

Here's a question....

Why is it that Verisign followed the wishes of the CJK community by imposing variant blocking within Con/Net, yet ICANN has released simplified and traditional TLD's of the same word ("example")?

Doesn't that make variant blocking a total waste of time?

Did the CJK guys say it was OK?

Please provide a link to the discussions that went on about this.

Thanks.

Drewbert

19th October 2007, 07:43 PM

The point of Variant Blocking is to avoid user confusion.

As both these domains are owned by the same body, and point to the same information the problem hardly arises

So ICANN is allowed to ignore variant blocking because they're the same body, why can't HSBC do the same?

and the temporary nature of these domains makes the objection a bit of a mute point.

Ah. So ICANN's allowed to ignore the rules, temporarily.

That makes sense.

blastfromthepast

19th October 2007, 07:59 PM

Jacksonm, please keep the discussion on topic. This is not a thread for discussing the popularity of ccTLD vs gTLD.

jacksonm

19th October 2007, 08:19 PM

Jacksonm, please keep the discussion on topic. This is not a thread for discussing the popularity of ccTLD vs gTLD.

I blast you with the aimfai gun!

.

thegenius1

19th October 2007, 08:23 PM

Jacksonm, please keep the discussion on topic. This is not a thread for discussing the popularity of ccTLD vs gTLD.

agreed , http://www.idnforums.com/forums/13990-important-questions-for-tina-dam.html#post88395

Rubber Duck

19th October 2007, 09:18 PM

So ICANN is allowed to ignore variant blocking because they're the same body, why can't HSBC do the same?

Ah. So ICANN's allowed to ignore the rules, temporarily.

That makes sense.

The idea was that blocked scripts would be released to the registrant blocking those scripts, but this as yet has not happened.

burnsinternet

19th October 2007, 09:59 PM

OK, guys... Try posting some in the Wiki. English works there, too, I hear. See my example: http://idn.icann.org/Talk:IDNwiki#Aliasing.3F

Rubber Duck

19th October 2007, 10:05 PM

Don't think the English Wiki is getting many visitors.

Russian is what it is all about at the moment. http://blog.icann.org/?p=223

OK, guys... Try posting some in the Wiki. English works there, too, I hear. See my example: http://idn.icann.org/Talk:IDNwiki#Aliasing.3F

burnsinternet

19th October 2007, 10:30 PM

My point: Tina made it clear that they want us to post questions in the Wiki. Please respect her enough to post something in ANY of the language versions.

If there is little traffic to the Discussion page, then the members of THIS FORUM should start posting information and questions there. We know how to generate interest AND be polite & informative.

If you don't post something in the Wiki, the members here will look like uninterested, unhelpful, selfish domainers who have nothing to do but complain. If everyone posts one thing, it will fill that page out.

When Tina asks for your help several times, do something. If not, do not complain about ICANN. Look in the mirror.

bramiozo

19th October 2007, 11:16 PM

There's a fly in the wiki ointment....

burnsinternet

19th October 2007, 11:50 PM

Do you like what is posted on the Wiki front page now, guys?

This is a message for ICANN official Tina Dam. I see she is now contributing to the Web site IDN Forums. I just want her to know that this Web site does NOT represent the real IDN community. Any member whose opinions clash with Web site owner Olney is immediately expelled from the site. Brianludtke 23:04, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Drewbert

20th October 2007, 12:29 AM

The ICANN system is riddled with nutcases. Brian will hardly make a dent.

bwhhisc

20th October 2007, 12:40 AM

The ICANN system is riddled with nutcases. Brian will hardly make a dent.
Nice publicity for IDNF. Anyone interested can follow Ludtke's recorded posts here and let his words show you his character
and why he was eventually banned. I think Olney would be considered way tolerant with many members here that are eventually
banned for usually good reason. Not sharing his "beliefs" is not in the realm of why anyone has ever been banned.

burnsinternet

20th October 2007, 12:42 AM

IDNF will be controversial as long as it advocateds IDNs. IDN is controversial.

http://habrahabr.ru/blog/domains/27549.html

bwhhisc

20th October 2007, 12:52 AM

IDNF will be controversial as long as it advocateds IDNs. IDN is controversial.

http://habrahabr.ru/blog/domains/27549.html
Google translates (poorly). Anyone care to clarify...
Не признаёт моя душа такие домены! Do not recognize my soul such domains!

Their main topic of concern seems to be the phishing aspect of mixed script idns.

TinaDam

20th October 2007, 01:43 AM

burnsinternet

20th October 2007, 01:46 AM

You have done your job. Interest and discussion has been sparked here and around the world! Thanks for all you do, Tina.

Google translates (poorly). Anyone care to clarify...
Не признаёт моя душа такие домены! Do not recognize my soul such domains!

My soul does not recognize such domains!

Rubber Duck

20th October 2007, 07:07 AM

It would seem from the ICANN Wiki Log that most of the referrals have been posted from Russian Blogs.

It seems to me the most effective way to get this message out now, is not actually contributing to the blog itself but to get posts out their on native forums and blogs with the link to the appropriate language site for these Wikis.

If you actually do this in the IE6 friendly version of the link the results will be even more impressive.

This is your game and your market. Those that are invested in the markets that explode first will make the most money. At the moment we are sitting pretty with a very solid Russian portfolio. The traffic revenues there will probably buy us some very nice Japanese names in the near future!

bwhhisc

20th October 2007, 11:19 AM

It would seem from the ICANN Wiki Log that most of the referrals have been posted from Russian Blogs.

Referring back to Jerry's link, much negativity about idns seems to be posted from Russian domainers. That coincides with the mostly negative thinking a year back or so from domainers at the Russian Domenforum a short while back. Trying to think of a reason that ANY country or people would not want urls in their own native language. You can still use English urls if you choose, but this just opens up a new avenue of convenience and user friendly creativity imo. Saying that...I have to say that Russian traffic and clicks is on the move and steadily climbing every month.

IDNer

20th October 2007, 02:58 PM

Just an FYI to all on the forum that have asked questions that I have not answered. I am completely overwhelmed with the nice welcomes and the number of questions. I am currently at the Taiwan meeting on IDNs, DNSSEC, and IPv6 - and hence rather busy paying attention here. So I unfortunately will not be back answering questions on the forum until next week. I also have to admit I don't know if I am going to be able to answer all due to the large number of questions, but will see what can be done.

Tina

I've met Tina on this meeting today, only to say hello -
(of course, I've mention that I'm the member of IDNforums http://www.idnforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif)

Tina really was too busy to talk with me...

touchring

20th October 2007, 04:10 PM

Referring back to Jerry's link, much negativity about idns seems to be posted from Russian domainers. That coincides with the mostly negative thinking a year back or so from domainers at the Russian Domenforum a short while back. Trying to think of a reason that ANY country or people would not want urls in their own native language. You can still use English urls if you choose, but this just opens up a new avenue of convenience and user friendly creativity imo. Saying that...I have to say that Russian traffic and clicks is on the move and steadily climbing every month.

Maybe, because .py is no longer an option now? idn.com looks like a winner for russian. :)

Rubber Duck

20th October 2007, 04:24 PM

She was supposed to reporting on progress on the dot test thing today.

Did you get to hear anything interesting?

I've met Tina on this meeting today, only to say hello -
(of course, I've mention that I'm the member of IDNforums http://www.idnforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif)

Tina really was too busy to talk with me...

IDNer

20th October 2007, 05:32 PM

She was supposed to reporting on progress on the dot test thing today.

Did you get to hear anything interesting?

Due to the reason that my English was terrible bad, I can not catch most of the meaning the speakers says on this meeting; and there didn't provide any documentation to the audiences...

Some people (list: http://taipei2007.icann.org/schedule) make reports about the [IDN Test (http://icann.org/announcements/announcement-15oct07.htm)]...

Tina said that people can check the newest information about IDN on IDNwiki (http://idn.icann.org) and/or click :
http://icann.org/images/losangeles2007_icon.jpg (http://losangeles2007.icann.org)
(this logo have appear on the front page of ICANN website: http://icann.org)

http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/6029/t1yj5.png

touchring

20th October 2007, 05:42 PM

The shot is quite dark. :^

IDNer

20th October 2007, 05:55 PM

The shot is quite dark. :^

My camera got something wrong...

Tina looks much younger & pretty in fact...
(it's better to remove this picture - otherwise, Tina will kill me)

touchring

20th October 2007, 06:00 PM

My camera got something wrong...

Tina looks much younger & pretty in fact...
(it's better to remove this picture - otherwise, Tina will kill me)

:p

IDNer

20th October 2007, 06:57 PM

http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/72/92/23499272.jpg

Shh.......................

Rubber Duck

20th October 2007, 09:11 PM

How about telling us who was attending this Taipei party? How many delegates were there and where did they seem to be from? Was it booked to capacity?

mulligan

20th October 2007, 09:44 PM

The shot is quite dark. :^
No wonder ICANN have juvinile opinions with such juvinile postings like this ... you 'should' consider your position before making such blase statements

Shessh .... how old are you?

IDNer ...this is also addressed to you

IDNer

21st October 2007, 01:23 AM

ICANN have provide [ "Webcast of this event (mms://wmslive.media.hinet.net/uc_20071019_600)" ] on [ http://taipei2007.icann.org/schedule ]

How about telling us who was attending this Taipei party?

<<IDN DAY Oct. 20, Sat.>>
===================

09:00-09:10 Welcome Remarks
/ Minister of State, Executive Yuan, Dr. Ferng-Ching Lin

09:10-11:10 Keynote Speeches
/ Chairman, ICANN, Vint Cerf
/ Academicians, Academia Sinica, Chung-Laung Liu
/ President & CEO, ICANN, Paul Twomey

11:10-11:20 Coffee Break

11:20-11:40 Update on .test Evaluation
/ IDN Program Director, ICANN, Tina Dam

11:40-12:00 Overview of Protocol Revision
/ Internet Consultant, John Klensin

12:00-12:20
IDN Campus Implementation
/ CEO, TWNIC, Ming-Cheng Liang
/ Prof., National Ilan University, Han-Chieh Chao

12:20-12:40 IDN Application Trial
/ Director, Corporate Planning, JPRS, Hiro Hotta

12:40-13:00 Q&A

13:00-14:00 Lunch Break

14:00-14:20 IDNs in India: Working with 11 Scripts & 22 Languages
/ Vice President Operations & CTO, Afilias, Ram Mohan

14:20-14:50 ICANN Status Report & Next Steps
/ IDN Program Director, ICANN, Tina Dam

14:50-15:20 Main Technical Issues that Cause Limitation in Policy Development
/ Internet Consultant, John Klensin

15:20:15:30 Q&A

15:30-16:00 Coffee Break

16:00-16:20 Status Report on GAC-ccNSO WG
/ RIRs Account Manager, ICANN, Bart Boswinkel

16:20-16:40 Possible Answers for the
/ Director, Corporate Planning, JPRS, Hiro Hotta

16:40-17:00 GAC-ccNSO Issues Paper APTLD Status Report
/ General Manager, APTLD, Don Hollander

17:00-17:20 Q&A

17:20-17:30 Day Summary & Closing Remarks
/ Chairman, TWNIC, Feipei Lai

18:00-20:00 Social Event Program

Drewbert

21st October 2007, 02:06 AM

ICANN have provide [ "Webcast of this event (mms://wmslive.media.hinet.net/uc_20071019_600)" ] on [ http://taipei2007.icann.org/schedule ]

"Windows Media Player will be required to view the webcast."

Good open systems there ICANN. How do people using Linux watch?

And Mac users who aren't prepared to risk installing Microsoft software on their machine?

drbiohealth

21st October 2007, 09:58 PM

The only thing that is missing in this thread is the focus. Let me go and watch LOST just to compare. I can understand Tina's situation.

Welcome Tina.

TinaDam

22nd October 2007, 06:28 AM

I've met Tina on this meeting today, only to say hello -
(of course, I've mention that I'm the member of IDNforums http://www.idnforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif)

Tina really was too busy to talk with me...

So I guess it was not you I had a long conversation about the non-support of "symbols.com".

jose

22nd October 2007, 06:33 AM

So I guess it was not you I had a long conversation about the non-support of "symbols.com".

It's official?!

Welcome Tina. Still didn't had a change to say Hi. And thanks for bearing with us. :)

Charrua

22nd October 2007, 07:05 AM

Welcome Tina.

Charrua.

seesawgame

22nd October 2007, 11:00 AM

Here is Tina:rolleyes:

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/7994/tina1gb5.png

seesawgame

22nd October 2007, 11:04 AM

http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/9343/tinafe3.png

Fixed it from IDNer :p

Rubber Duck

22nd October 2007, 11:06 AM

So I guess it was not you I had a long conversation about the non-support of "symbols.com".

I don't have any myself, but I think some here would appreciate a brief summary of that conversation. Most people would like to know which symbols the IDNA is unlikely to continue to support, i.e. Numerals, Currency symbols, punctuation, and of course the dreaded Dingbats.

Well actually, thinking about it, I do have Unicode Numerals.

IDNer

22nd October 2007, 02:09 PM

I don't have any myself, but I think some here would appreciate a brief summary of that conversation. Most people would like to know which symbols the IDNA is unlikely to continue to support, i.e. Numerals, Currency symbols, punctuation, and of course the dreaded Dingbats.

Well actually, thinking about it, I do have Unicode Numerals.

There were two brief encounters - the first was just to say "Hello" because Tina was going to give a speech, and it lasted for about 20 seconds;
after her speech (and the 2nd day meeting was concluded) we talked for about 3 minutes - including self introductions of myself and Seesawgame. I asked Tina if the suggestion IDN Working Group (IDN-WG) gave ICANN would be the direction of IDN. She replied it would be decided after several meetings. I then asked her whether Dingbats/Symbol would not be allowed to register in the future, since they wouldn't be included in the regular IDN, her reply was that "this issue would be discussed in upcoming meeting in Los Angeles later this month.

Ms. Dam is welcome to correct me if my recollection of our conversations is incorrect.

Rubber Duck

22nd October 2007, 02:17 PM

Thanks. If you look at the Agenda in LA, it is one of the most fluid I have ever seen. It doesn't appear to geared to so much to informing the wider community but more to cracking heads together and getting decisions made. Time will tell if they are successful. I am hopeful that we will make some real progress this time.

There were two brief encounters - the first was just to say "Hello" because Tina was going to give a speech, and it lasted for about 20 seconds;
after her speech (and the 2nd day meeting was concluded) we talked for about 3 minutes - including self introductions of myself and Seesawgame. I asked Tina if the suggestion IDN Working Group (IDN-WG) gave ICANN would be the direction of IDN. She replied it would be decided after several meetings. I then asked her whether Dingbats/Symbol would not be allowed to register in the future, since they wouldn't be included in the regular IDN, her reply was that "this issue would be discussed in upcoming meeting in Los Angeles later this month.

Ms. Dam is welcome to correct me if my recollection of our conversations is incorrect.

khurtsiya

15th November 2007, 10:45 PM