IDNs "ain’t gonna happen on a large scale in our lifetimes"

[bwhhisc]

Another persons perspective (by a reader of Frank Schoolers blog) under the thread "Why do Good Domains Cost so Much?"
I like the part where he says "IDNs are Doomed"

RESPONDING TO DAVE (Rubber Duck):
QUOTE:
What Dave Wrixon continually forgets is that the Unites States is the country that is the easiest to monetize. 10,000 United States eyeballs monetize better than 100 eyeballs in the places most IDN speculators play. IDN is all speculation, whereas much of dotcom is investment. If you don’t know the difference then your bankroll will eventually let you know.

How many IDN’s have ever been sold to an end-user who put up a functioning site? That is what eventually has to happen….ain’t gonna happen on a large scale in our lifetimes. How many American Schools require students to learn obscure languages from other countries? Not many, yet most other countries teach their children english. That is because it is the most powerful economic language in the world.

People in the United States spend money, and the Internet and dotcom are associated with this country more than any other.

Your IDN’s are a pipe dream, and if you live to be 1,000 yourself you will have to pump them every day. Very few people even understand domain names. There is a reason that most of the successfull people in the game have no interest in IDN’s.

Half the time you guys can’t even agree on what the name means…..and 99 percent of you have zero cultural experience in the countries you choose to invest in……typing names and trying to figure out what they mean in other languages is a laughable joke.

IDN’s are doomed. If they weren’t then you wouldn’t want anybody to know…you would just accumulate and be quiet. END QUOTE

http://www.sevenmile.com/2007-11/why-do-good-domains-cost-so-much/#comment-5338

[jacksonm]

Screw the constant pumping, I'm still in acquisition mode.

.

[khurtsiya]

He speaks something like "all people in the world should know English! ". lol

[zenmarketing]

I think the lesson can be summed up in his last four words: accumulate and be quiet.

He speaks something like "all people in the world should know English! ". lol

Yes, it's very sad.

[touchring]

Does he sound like acro? Ehh, no...acro doesn't write that well does he? :o

[Fka200]

I love people like him. They sit and act like know-it-alls. You know, my opinion on life is if you don't know what the f*ck you're talking about, SHUT UP. This means if you have no experience with IDNS, you have no right to talk about it. After talking negatively about .mobi/ccTLDs in ASCII, I feel like I can. Why? Because I own some! These people sit and talk about IDNs like they know what the hell is going on. LMAO.

It's amazing how people go nuts over IDNs. He acts like there aren't fully functioning IDNs online right now. Eeck, end of rant. Gotta get to class.

[bwhhisc]

He speaks something like "all people in the world should know English! ". lol
The reality is that 80% of the world does not speak English.
IDNs are not "required" for anyone to use...they just make the internet a more functional and easy to use resource for people that want to use them. Given the populations of places like Japan, China, Russia that is a huge audience.

I don't mind the naysayers, there will always be people that will be of that mindset. Same type of Luddite mentality as those that think the world is still flat. These kind of comments provide a reality check and validify the research many of us have put into understanding what has transpired over the past decade with IDN development and steps underway for implementation.

[thefabfive]

I agree with him. This constant pumping of IDNs is very annoying.

[Rubber Duck]

That would be OK coming from the ASCII mob if they actually practice what they preach.

Basically, it means shut up because you clashing with our sales pitch!

I think the lesson can be summed up in his last four words: accumulate and be quiet.



Yes, it's very sad.

Basically, Morons that cannot grasp why IDN are essential haven't fully understood what a domain name is or why it is valuable PERIOD.

The reality is that 80% of the world does not speak English.
IDNs are not "required" for anyone to use...they just make the internet a more functional and easy to use resource for people that want to use them. Given the populations of places like Japan, China, Russia that is a huge audience.

I don't mind the naysayers, there will always be people that will be of that mindset. Same type of Luddite mentality as those that think the world is still flat. These kind of comments provide a reality check and validify the research many of us have put into understanding what has transpired over the past decade with IDN development and steps underway for implementation.

[npcomplete]

While I am new to IDN, I am not new to markets and market psychology. I am the lone science geek in a business family, but one of the things I always heard was that you go to the market, you don't wait for the market to come to you... and second point is that if there is no market then build one. Assuming of course that the product or service you are offering is worthy of a market and has a future. Now it looks like there is an entire world full of buyers and users of IDN that *may* find the internet experience more enjoyable in their own natural language. I heard somewhere (feel free to correct me) that China has more graduating honors students than America has students. My guess is that these graduating honors students in China will have a computer in their future. So yeah, buy and hold.

Just more comments from the new guy,
Marc

[touchring]

My guess is that these graduating honors students in China will have a computer in their future.


I like this statement. :-)

[Rubber Duck]

Last I heard was that they were producing 5 times as many IT graduates as the US. And I would guess that most of them are of a higher calibre. Chinese has some serious mathematical ability.

While I am new to IDN, I am not new to markets and market psychology. I am the lone science geek in a business family, but one of the things I always heard was that you go to the market, you don't wait for the market to come to you... and second point is that if there is no market then build one. Assuming of course that the product or service you are offering is worthy of a market and has a future. Now it looks like there is an entire world full of buyers and users of IDN that *may* find the internet experience more enjoyable in their own natural language. I heard somewhere (feel free to correct me) that China has more graduating honors students than America has students. My guess is that these graduating honors students in China will have a computer in their future. So yeah, buy and hold.

Just more comments from the new guy,
Marc

[jacksonm]

So, Dave, could you *please* quit pumping IDNs on Frank's blog? I'm finding it increasingly difficult to do fresh regs... Just leave those guys alone; they are not gonna buy your domains. Hell, they wouldn't buy china.com IDN for $1000 if you offered it to them.

.

[blastfromthepast]

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/7489/keepmum1pz1.gif

[Rubber Duck]

The Catholic Church banned the discussion of Heliocentrism for 141 years. Don't be so impatient!

and just to show I am not anti-papal:

There was an early suggestion among Dominicans that the teaching should be banned, but nothing came of it at the time. Some Protestants, however, voiced strong opinions during the 16th century. Martin Luther once said:

"There is talk of a new astrologer who wants to prove that the earth moves and goes around instead of the sky, the sun, the moon, just as if somebody were moving in a carriage or ship might hold that he was sitting still and at rest while the earth and the trees walked and moved. But that is how things are nowadays: when a man wishes to be clever he must . . . invent something special, and the way he does it must needs be the best! The fool wants to turn the whole art of astronomy upside-down. However, as Holy Scripture tells us, so did Joshua bid the sun to stand still and not the earth."

This was reported in the context of dinner-table conversation and not a formal statement of faith. Melanchthon, however, opposed the doctrine over a period of years.

A famous quotation, often mis-attributed to John Calvin, reads:

"Who will venture to place the authority of Copernicus above that of the Holy Spirit?"





So, Dave, could you *please* quit pumping IDNs on Frank's blog? I'm finding it increasingly difficult to do fresh regs... Just leave those guys alone; they are not gonna buy your domains. Hell, they wouldn't buy china.com IDN for $1000 if you offered it to them.

.

[jacksonm]

We would best serve ourselves by working on Firefox and ICANN, not Frank's wannabes.

Waste not, want not.

.

[alexd]

Does that Pete actually have his head up his a** 24 hours aday ?? I am just asking as he was talking complete sh*t in that post.

I made a reply there myself - hope it passes the moderation phase.

ALex

[Rubber Duck]

Mozilla is not going to respond to us, and frankly ICANN will do what it does regardless. Why get excited.

If I want to entertain myself by getting abused on there rather than just here then that is my affair.

We would best serve ourselves by working on Firefox and ICANN, not Frank's wannabes.

Waste not, want not.

.

Does that Pete actually have his head up his a** 24 hours aday ?? I am just asking as he was talking complete sh*t in that post.

I made a reply there myself - hope it passes the moderation phase.

ALex

I think he probably likes the taste!

[zenmarketing]

I think a lot of people outside America have a belief that the average American (like the one being referenced in this thread) is stupid.

It's not exactly the case.

It's more like a child who has never been let out of the house.

They don't know what's out there.

American media is *extremely* closed off to the rest of the world. To many Americans, America *is* the world.

[touchring]

American media is *extremely* closed off to the rest of the world. To many Americans, America *is* the world.


I think that's also the case with a lot of countries where media is influenced, not just America. But in this internet age, a simple research will reveal a lot more about other countries and cultures.

if anyone is keen to see the world, you can take a look at this forum - skyscrapercity.com. You can find photos, comments and opinion of people frmo dozens of countries.

[zenmarketing]

You can find photos, comments and opinion of people frmo dozens of countries.

That's exactly why it's such a great place to hang out.

[Asiaplay]

I think a lot of people outside America have a belief that the average American (like the one being referenced in this thread) is stupid.

It's not exactly the case.

It's more like a child who has never been let out of the house.

They don't know what's out there.

American media is *extremely* closed off to the rest of the world. To many Americans, America *is* the world.

Agree American media is more insulated than Chinese media even...

I was surprised to learn that only 10% of Americans have a passport (this means 90% of the population has never even been to a protected extra safe resort in Mexico - like WOW where is the interest in life!!!)
I also started to think that maybe the armed forces takes up a little of that 10% as well... so it does tell you the understanding the average American has of the world around us - unfortunately... glad those in this forum are the pleasant exception to this!!!

But no problem (I do not even follow what this guy bothers saying) - to be honest, it is not in Frank's best interests to support IDNs - so why is anyone surprised that in public he rubbishes them!
IDNs are the only short to medium threat to his personal investment base and his comments will give him a extra few years milking the idiots who overpay for his asciis :)
Also rubbishing them he does not have to show his ignorance, at his lack of understanding of languages, cultures and things in the world... so safe safe as well and he can pretend he is an intellectual ;)

Cheers - Asiaplay

[Drewbert]

1. Until recently US citizens could visit heavily protected Mexican resorts using just their drivers licence.

2. Frank doesn't really rubbish IDN's.

[Rubber Duck]

Why would they need passports?

Very soon most of them won't be able to afford to go anywhere!

[jacksonm]

But no problem (I do not even follow what this guy bothers saying) - to be honest, it is not in Frank's best interests to support IDNs - so why is anyone surprised that in public he rubbishes them!
IDNs are the only short to medium threat to his personal investment base and his comments will give him a extra few years milking the idiots who overpay for his asciis :)
Also rubbishing them he does not have to show his ignorance, at his lack of understanding of languages, cultures and things in the world... so safe safe as well and he can pretend he is an intellectual ;)

Frank doesn't sell domains, he buys them.

He doesn't trash IDNs, he just says he's not really interested. It's some of the others who post on his board that are acting ignorant - notice I say "acting".

.

[alexd]

It's some of the others who post on his board that are acting ignorant - notice I say "acting".

Yes, I "noticed" that ;)

[bwhhisc]

Why would they need passports?
Very soon most of them won't be able to afford to go anywhere!
We are long overdue for a recession...so the clock has been ticking a long time. How hard it hits is the question.
If the US economy goes down as hard as you predict, it is going to ripple right on across the world economy and impact
everyone else.

How is the current economy in England and what is the forecast for 2008 and beyond?

[sarcle]

Why would they need passports?

Very soon most of them won't be able to afford to go anywhere!

That's the problem. For decades America has dealt with Mexican's illegally crossing our borders. Soon when our economy crashes it might be the other way around.

[bwhhisc]

That's the problem. For decades America has dealt with Mexican's illegally crossing our borders. Soon when our economy crashes it might be the other way around.
ROTFLMOL
Good one Sarcle.

[Bruins]

My folks studied Deutsch because it was the language of Science & Français - so you can be a part of a polite society. And then came Rock'n' Roll - and everything turned English. Overnight.
IDN-centric web will come when the time is right. The prayers to speed it up won't help.
And kicking the only guy who's actually working on the full-fledged IDN site is counter-productive.

[Noemi]

I have hope in IDNs, but I do agree that you really need to understand the cultural context. I picked up a couple "Easter"s in certain languages where easter is way more important than Christmas, but Christmas was already taken. I say .. if you don't know the language/culture, don't bother. If you do .. go get them. I'm not trying to discriminate but some people have advantages over others so I think its pointless to try to compete .. as for "real IDN websites" .. I try to develop at least 1/10 and I wish more people would.

[bwhhisc]

And kicking the only guy who's actually working on the full-fledged IDN site is counter-productive.
And who is the "only"

[markits]

Some facts about China:

A very high proportion of Chinese graduate students own a good model notebook (laptop. in fact all students I know own one).

Very high proportion of Chinese don't know the 26 English alphbates.

[Fka200]

And kicking the only guy who's actually working on the full-fledged IDN site is counter-productive.

I'm assuming you're talking about yourself? I know of a couple people on who have full IDN sites... like FULL OUT.

[touchring]

Some facts about China:

A very high proportion of Chinese graduate students own a good model notebook (laptop. in fact all students I know own one).




I foud this:

http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39289616,00.htm

Dell reckons China's PC market — now the second-largest behind the US — is growing at 18 to 20 percent annually, and the mainland's desktop market could surpass the US in a couple of years.


We are long overdue for a recession...so the clock has been ticking a long time. How hard it hits is the question.
If the US economy goes down as hard as you predict, it is going to ripple right on across the world economy and impact
everyone else.

How is the current economy in England and what is the forecast for 2008 and beyond?


Based on past experience in the Asian financial crisis, the recession will end when most of the non-performing debts have been written off, the insolvent banks closed down or absorbed by other banks. This includes debts that become non-performing as a result of the recession.

The credit crunch is already affecting many markets around the world.

[Rubber Duck]

We are long overdue for a recession...so the clock has been ticking a long time. How hard it hits is the question.
If the US economy goes down as hard as you predict, it is going to ripple right on across the world economy and impact
everyone else.

How is the current economy in England and what is the forecast for 2008 and beyond?

I would say the outlook is weak, but the Bank of England has more room to manoeuvre than the Fed. Our twin deficits are much smaller than yours! Also the mind set of our people is better geared to addressing the problems. We have been flooded by East Europeans competing for jobs. Our people are under no illusions.



I have hope in IDNs, but I do agree that you really need to understand the cultural context. I picked up a couple "Easter"s in certain languages where easter is way more important than Christmas, but Christmas was already taken. I say .. if you don't know the language/culture, don't bother. If you do .. go get them. I'm not trying to discriminate but some people have advantages over others so I think its pointless to try to compete .. as for "real IDN websites" .. I try to develop at least 1/10 and I wish more people would.

That is the biggest misconception there is. Do you think foreigners don't buy English Dot Com?

I don't speak or understand any of the languages or scripts I have invested in but have already sold IDN for low to mid $xxx,xxx! And I will bet my portfolio against yours any day of the week!

I'm assuming you're talking about yourself? I know of a couple people on who have full IDN sites... like FULL OUT.

Just shows how little this guy actually knows! There must be tens of thousands of such sites in China.

Some facts about China:

A very high proportion of Chinese graduate students own a good model notebook (laptop. in fact all students I know own one).

Very high proportion of Chinese don't know the 26 English alphbates.

Not sure about computers but in mobile phones the US is already running 4th behind India, China and the EU. I rather suspect they are not first in the computer market either. Expanding into a virgin market is always going to be easier than a mature one. The highest sales over the next couple of years will almost certainly come from India. The US will struggle to make the top five.

[Wot]

So - is the general consensus that IDN's may/will have a future ?

They certainly have a present/presence :)

[touchring]

Good names with a good extension will always be valuable.

[jacksonm]

My folks studied Deutsch because it was the language of Science & Français - so you can be a part of a polite society. And then came Rock'n' Roll - and everything turned English. Overnight.
IDN-centric web will come when the time is right. The prayers to speed it up won't help.
And kicking the only guy who's actually working on the full-fledged IDN site is counter-productive.

Bruins,
I also received this message verbatim from you via PM.

What's up?

.

I have hope in IDNs, but I do agree that you really need to understand the cultural context. I picked up a couple "Easter"s in certain languages where easter is way more important than Christmas, but Christmas was already taken. I say .. if you don't know the language/culture, don't bother. If you do .. go get them. I'm not trying to discriminate but some people have advantages over others so I think its pointless to try to compete .. as for "real IDN websites" .. I try to develop at least 1/10 and I wish more people would.

While you do have a point, and I've said it myself in a bit different way, many folks here are not that stupid and others have simply built good language portfolios via brute force. We have a good support network here in that we have people from all over the world and can put stuff up for appraisal by native speakers (or ask them in advance if you are friends with them).

I have picked up some very good domains at reg fee lately. Likely not because nobody here noticed them, rather because nobody understood their cultural significance. You are perhaps doing the same. Good for you.

Still, telling people that it's pointless to try to compete is a bad attitude and it's completely transparent. Newcomers to this forum often get the same speech - nothing good left to reg, but I've got stuff to sell you at a price which nobody else is currently willing to pay. That is probably true in Chinese and Korean, but people are still posting fresh regs in Japanese and other languages.

.

[Rubber Duck]

There is some good stuff coming up, but most of it is junk.

Japanese is notorious. Right term, wrong script. Some of those that are reknown for over hyping domains are often guilty of this one.

Yes, there are the odd diamonds that have been overlooked, but unless you have a serious amount of time and good language skills, you are going to be struggling at this point in the game. Those moving in with significant resources would well advised to take a different tack in view of the short-term time scale now available. And short you know them to be, as you are still desperately trying to fill out your own portfolio on a limited budget.


While you do have a point, and I've said it myself in a bit different way, many folks here are not that stupid and others have simply built good language portfolios via brute force. We have a good support network here in that we have people from all over the world and can put stuff up for appraisal by native speakers (or ask them in advance if you are friends with them).

I have picked up some very good domains at reg fee lately. Likely not because nobody here noticed them, rather because nobody understood their cultural significance. You are perhaps doing the same. Good for you.

Still, telling people that it's pointless to try to compete is a bad attitude and it's completely transparent. Newcomers to this forum often get the same speech - nothing good left to reg, but I've got stuff to sell you at a price which nobody else is currently willing to pay. That is probably true in Chinese and Korean, but people are still posting fresh regs in Japanese and other languages.

.

[touchring]

I've been buying more domains than i register like the last 6 months. Lots of good names registered at the start of 2006, especially Chinese .net, that can be bought for mid to low $xx.