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View Full Version : These days I prefer "。jp" to ".com"


Ryu
9th January 2008, 02:00 PM
I am Japanese who does type in. (Rhys, there is at least one Japanese man here who is indeed typing in!)

at the moment, i type mostly ascii domains in because there aren't many Japanese IDNs around. however, there is one Japanese IDN I do frequently type in. that's Olney's キーワードアドバイスツール.jp. (KeywordAdviseTool.jp) Olney has both .jp and .com and I actually used to use his .com domain name more often. However, after some time, it started annoying me that I had to convert from Japanese typing mode to ascii one each time i type キーワードアドバイスツール.com. Converting the typing mode takes me only a second but it is certainly better if I don't have to. And the thing is, I don't need to covert typing mode at all if I use .jp domains. that's because i can keep using Japanese roma-ji typing mode and type in "。jp" instead of ".jp". And it works perfectly fine. you cannot do this with .com because as soon as you type .co in the roma-ji input mode, co gets converted to hiragana こ.

now i am so comfortable with typing "。jp" that i almost never uses his .com version of keyword advise tool.

it's the same thing when i randomly type in some top Japanese IDNs just for the sake of fun. These days I almost always start with 。jp to see if there is any website up. dot com sounds good and looks kinda better than .jp, too. but .com cannot beat .jp when it comes to the ease of typing in.

this is just one man's experience. and i have no intension to conclude that the same would apply to other japanese people. and i know that there are many people here who believe that .com is sperior to .jp. and you thinking that way is perfectly fine for me. people have different opinions and that's cool. i am just talking about my experience and i have nothing to defend.

jacksonm
9th January 2008, 02:04 PM
Ryu,
That is damned useful information and provides a critical piece of understanding for how Japanese type-in will likely emerge.

Thankfully most of my good Japanese IDNs are in .jp :-)

.

Fka200
9th January 2008, 02:07 PM
Thanks for that, Ryu ;)

Rubber Duck
9th January 2008, 02:09 PM
Valid points indeed.

Of course introduction of Aliasing might change the picture again.

markits
9th January 2008, 02:10 PM
"。com" works in here (ie7) which means you don't need to switch typing mode. Have you tried that in your computer?

try http://ヤマダ。com Click the domain name please. Under ie7, the Japanese and Chinese dot "。" works the same as the English dot "." in domain names.

Ryu
9th January 2008, 02:19 PM
"。com" works in here (ie7) which means you don't need to switch typing mode. Have you tried that in your computer?

try http://ヤマダ。com Click the domain name please. Under ie7, the Japanese and Chinese dot "。" works the same as the English dot "." in domain names.

i know it works fine. but if you try to type "。com" in roma-ji typing mode, you will end up with "。こm".

touchring
9th January 2008, 02:22 PM
"。com" works in here (ie7) which means you don't need to switch typing mode. Have you tried that in your computer?

try http://ヤマダ。com Click the domain name please. Under ie7, the Japanese and Chinese dot "。" works the same as the English dot "." in domain names.


have you tried chinese。com?

i'm actually not worried about the switching part, the browsers will auto switch at the software level before people really start using idns.

markits
9th January 2008, 02:27 PM
have you tried chinese。com?
Yes tried, no problem.

http://山西。com

touchring
9th January 2008, 02:31 PM
Yes tried, no problem.

http://山西。com


do you type in the http:// as well? when i type in 山西。com into IE, mine got hijacked by google. 山西.com is ok though.

555
9th January 2008, 02:36 PM
the browsers will auto switch at the software level before people really start using idns.
Elaborate pls?

markits
9th January 2008, 02:36 PM
do you type in the http:// as well? when i type in 山西。com into IE, mine got hijacked by google. 山西.com is ok though.

No I don't type http://. Just type "山西。com" to the address bar works fine here.

touchring
9th January 2008, 02:39 PM
No I don't type http://. Just type "山西。com" to the address bar works fine here.


got hijacked by google plugin. :o

markits
9th January 2008, 02:41 PM
got hijacked by google plugin. :o

get rid of the spyware

touchring
9th January 2008, 02:41 PM
Elaborate pls?


Means the browser will auto switch keys to ascii after you type dot com or dot cn. The most popular chinese input software, 搜狗 already has ascii auto detect built-in. The moment you type something it cannot convert into chinese, it will convert to ascii mode. I'm no programmer but i think it is not rocket science to do auto switching.

alpha
9th January 2008, 02:46 PM
Means the browser will auto switch keys to ascii after you type dot com or dot cn. The most popular chinese input software, 搜狗 already has ascii auto detect built-in. The moment you type something it cannot convert into chinese, it will convert to ascii mode. I'm no programmer but i think it is not rocket science to do auto switching.

so.....

we are now eaglerly awaiting IE?8? to get to saturation point before we is rich people.

markits
9th January 2008, 02:54 PM
To prevent auto convert ascii to Chinese char is simple, just press the Caps Lock or Press SHIFT while you are typing.

Agree with touch, ie8 will surely improve this.

Rubber Duck
9th January 2008, 03:37 PM
No I don't type http://. Just type "山西。com" to the address bar works fine here.

Typing http:// is for IE6 users. Nobody should need to do this!

Giant
9th January 2008, 03:41 PM
My OS is Vista with IE7. I have both Chinese and Japanese Input Method set up.

I type "riben.com" ---> "日本。com" (Chinese IME)

I type "nihon.com" ---> "日本。com" (Japanese IME)

Both work! (without http://)

Rubber Duck
9th January 2008, 03:51 PM
Actually I have just typed bbc.co.uk into IE6 on another machine in the office, and even that no longer requires http://, so the assumption is that ALL browser automatically append this protocol.

Of course the Protocol is still required. The fact that you don't see and don't explicitly need to type it, doesn't mean it is not there.

Giant
9th January 2008, 03:53 PM
I also notice the bar shows the Unicode domain name, not Punycode.

I typed "toyota.com", the address bar shows "トヨタ。com". And it works!

jacksonm
9th January 2008, 04:24 PM
Actually I have just typed bbc.co.uk into IE6 on another machine in the office, and even that no longer requires http://, so the assumption is that ALL browser automatically append this protocol.

Of course the Protocol is still required. The fact that you don't see and don't explicitly need to type it, doesn't mean it is not there.


You haven't ever needed to type in http:// in a graphical web browser, going all the way back to 1994. Not in Netscape, IE, Opera, Mosaic, etc.

In fact the only reason this is displayed in the browser's address bar is because browsers support multiple protocols and it's nice to see which one you are using if you are using something other than http://:

ftp://
https://
ldap:// (ended at netscape 5)

etc.

Since '94, if you only typed netscape.com, the browser would take you to http://netscape.com by default.

Another major misconception was / is that web sites had to / could only be hosted on a host which was named "www".

.

markits
9th January 2008, 04:35 PM
I also notice the bar shows the Unicode domain name, not Punycode.

I typed "toyota.com", the address bar shows "トヨタ。com". And it works!

That's impressive.
Which typing system is that? Is it available for purchase or is it embedded in the vista system?

Giant
9th January 2008, 04:45 PM
That's impressive.
Which typing system is that? Is it available for purchase or is it embedded in the vista system?

It's Microsoft's Japanese IME in Vista.

markits
9th January 2008, 04:46 PM
It's Microsoft's Japanese IME in Vista.
TA!
This means vista has fixed the problem raised by Ryu. We don't need to wait for ie8 :)

Giant
9th January 2008, 04:52 PM
TA!
This means vista has fixed the problem raised by Ryu. We don't need to wait for ie8 :)

Yes, I think so. Or Ryu should try to choose the right setup for the keyboard. It's Romaji default type-in.

rhys
9th January 2008, 04:56 PM
I'm on vista at work (obviously) and xp at home. I don't have a problem with .com on vista but I do still on xp where I too prefer .jp

touchring
9th January 2008, 04:58 PM
TA!
This means vista has fixed the problem raised by Ryu. We don't need to wait for ie8 :)


So can we say vista already does intelligent switching? My IE7 is now crippled by google plugin so i can't test. Can anyone here with IE7 pls help test with the commonly used MS Pinyin?

markits
9th January 2008, 05:57 PM
LOL Touch you are so persistent.
Giant and Rhys have already confirmed that it works under the vista system.

touchring
10th January 2008, 03:10 AM
LOL Touch you are so persistent.
Giant and Rhys have already confirmed that it works under the vista system.


I know, but waiting for vista, as good as waiting for IE8. My notebook with vista, i used it less than 10 times since buying it 6 mths ago. :o

websjapan
10th January 2008, 04:16 AM
hiya

i have to say that while ryu is right and it is easier to type .jp it is also only a slight inconvenience to type .com in japanese mode - at least on my keyboard setup.

to type roman letters in japanese input mode all you have to do is hold shift down and type, then roman characters appear, and even though they are in double byte, the browser will convert them ok.

just 2c

Fka200
10th January 2008, 04:51 AM
Excuse my ignorance, but does cntrl+enter work ??

Ryu
11th January 2008, 08:34 AM
I'm on vista at work (obviously) and xp at home. I don't have a problem with .com on vista but I do still on xp where I too prefer .jp

vista sounds convenient then. thank you for sharing.

now i have just one question though.

what happens if you try to type in ".日本" with the roma-ji typing mode on vista? i hope it doesn't turn into ".nihon" or ".nippon"...

Giant
11th January 2008, 09:23 AM
what happens if you try to type in ".日本" with the roma-ji typing mode on vista? i hope it doesn't turn into ".nihon" or ".nippon"...

Well, not as you hope, it does turn into ".nihon" or ".nippon".

But this is easy to fix when .日本 is live.

Ryu
11th January 2008, 12:08 PM
Well, not as you hope, it does turn into ".nihon" or ".nippon".

But this is easy to fix when .日本 is live.

thanks Giant,

and i agree that the problem is easy to fix... i wonder, though, how they would fix it. depending on the way they do it, IDN.com might once again become slightly difficult to type in for vista users.

touchring
11th January 2008, 05:01 PM
thanks Giant,

and i agree that the problem is easy to fix... i wonder, though, how they would fix it. depending on the way they do it, IDN.com might once again become slightly difficult to type in for vista users.


When will .日本 be live? ICANN is slow as tortoise.

Ryu
12th January 2008, 06:37 AM
When will .日本 be live? ICANN is slow as tortoise.

at earliest next year, according to the latest news i read

Rubber Duck
12th January 2008, 06:46 AM
at earliest next year, according to the latest news i read

In which case, you may well see dot com aliasing first.