What Are Today's Opportunities Given Limited Funds?

[rolf]

As you well know, apart from a few tasty morcels, I fully admit that I missed the first boat but we still see that the next few boats are docked and queueing up to leave port very, very soon.

The beauty of domains for many is the incredible return on a hand registration.

So, assuming your strategy was to spend say $1000 on acquiring either fresh hand registrations or snapping up undervalued bargains in the secondary market, which countries and sectors would you aim for?

The reason I am asking is not only for my own personal reasons (!) but because I have some good influential contacts within the internet marketing community (lots of big hitters there, as in the domain world). I am currently pitching to them the idea of IDNs and, as you can imagine, many of them are astonished by this. There are additional benefits for them over and above speculation such as SEO value too.

I know that many of you may not care to convince people of the value of IDNs but a new breed of believers can certainly not do any harm to the IDN cause.

Maybe some of you can share some general advice in terms of countries to invest in or even market sectors based on where we are today, without giving away your trade secrets?

thanks

[domain_trader]

Unlike many here, I got into IDNs fairly recently (six months ago). I looked for a language that hadn't been completely mined to death (in my case Vietnamese) and picked up some handy domains (mostly related to adult, music, film, pics, chat, weddings, finance, travel and automobiles), a few of which do quite well parked. In the last few weeks I've looked around in the more mined languages - Russian and Swedish - and I think I've picked up a few reasonable ones. You can see my IDN portfolio at www.domainonlinetrader.com.

Time will tell whether the domains I've picked up are as valuable as I hope they are. You also can't be sure which languages will explode in the .com extension (aliasing will be the key for the non-Latins). So it's all a bit of guess work at this stage. But the potential pay-offs if IDN goes bananas make this the best investment opportunity in town IMO. As long as you invest what you can afford to invest, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain.

[Rubber Duck]

If you are looking for relatively short-term returns then it has to be secondary market in Japanese, Chinese or Russian.

If you are looking for much longer-term returns it might be that you are looking at New Regs in Languages like Hindi, Bangla, Azeri etc.

The latter probably requires a much higher level of linguistic/IDN foraging skills than the former. The former requires to put you investment in larger amounts so that will require a higher degree of validation. However, the bigger the term, the easier it to validate.

If your friends are comparatively wealthy they should not go the New Reg route. FS was primarily a secondary market investor. Learn from history.

As you well know, apart from a few tasty morcels, I fully admit that I missed the first boat but we still see that the next few boats are docked and queueing up to leave port very, very soon.

The beauty of domains for many is the incredible return on a hand registration.

So, assuming your strategy was to spend say $1000 on acquiring either fresh hand registrations or snapping up undervalued bargains in the secondary market, which countries and sectors would you aim for?

The reason I am asking is not only for my own personal reasons (!) but because I have some good influential contacts within the internet marketing community (lots of big hitters there, as in the domain world). I am currently pitching to them the idea of IDNs and, as you can imagine, many of them are astonished by this. There are additional benefits for them over and above speculation such as SEO value too.

I know that many of you may not care to convince people of the value of IDNs but a new breed of believers can certainly not do any harm to the IDN cause.

Maybe some of you can share some general advice in terms of countries to invest in or even market sectors based on where we are today, without giving away your trade secrets?

thanks

[jacksonm]

Before investing, it might be wise to consider the following:

- Would the government in question like to block some gTLD domains, or all IDN gTLD domains?

- Does the country in question have extremely low PPC?

- Does the domain in question depend on extension aliasing?


Those are just factors to keep in mind, none of them are concrete and the situation can always change.

.

[Rubber Duck]

- Would the government in question like to block some gTLD domains, or all IDN gTLD domains?
.

Please give some examples:

a) Where this has actually happened.
b) Where there is credible evidence that this might happen.

[sunsei21]

The game is to be sold and not told :cool:

[zorglub]

The major IDN.coms are harvested IMO, the more I'm trying to get some the more it becomes evident to me.

Now if you are creative I think there are some very good IDNs left. Example, a few days ago I regged célébrités.tv (standart renewal fee) which means celebrities.tv in french. I think it's really a good name, I plan to develop it minimaly to cover the renewal and wait for the big offer...

[bwhhisc]

Here is my 2 cents to get the best investment with $ 1000
1) Buy some lists ($100) OR if you have the time, spend dozens if not hundreds of hours researching youself.
2) Do your homework on the names and or/ lists to find the best of the best names.
3) Pay a native speaker to appraise your potential lists ($50)
3) Register the best names (75 .com x $7= $ 550, 20 .jp= $ 300, (or maybe 1-2 .cn)

Total $ 100 + $ 50 + $ 550 + $ 300= $ 1000

[jacksonm]

Please give some examples:

a) Where this has actually happened.
b) Where there is credible evidence that this might happen.


I said "would they like to", which is an evaluation of their attitude. Chinese and Russian governments both have this attitude IMO. China already blocks very many individual domains. In addition, some Arab countries are currently blocking the entire .IL namespace as well as very many individual domains.

Evidence that something might happen is a contradiction in terms.

These questions should be part of your risk analysis, they are not unreasonable to consider.

.

[Rubber Duck]

I think there is common misconception here.

For years the Russians and the Chinese were shut out of what was essentially an American trading system. It took them years to get into the WTO, and gain reasonable access to Western Markets. Do you really think they are queuing up to jeopardise all that for a few domain names. This may be big money to us, it is peanuts to the Chinese Government.

What they are concerned about it control. They worry their future and the future of the country. There is little real evidence that forcing everything over to dot CN is going to benefit any other than the most paranoid.

Brown visited China recently. He more or less gave them carte blanche to invest in
whatever they like, in total contrast to American attitudes where foreign investors are shut out at every turn over just about any excuse whatsoever, and even get locked up because their business that were perfectly legitimate have been criminalised to protect US interests.

Frankly Bush scares me more than Hu.

I said "would they like to", which is an evaluation of their attitude. Chinese and Russian governments both have this attitude IMO. China already blocks very many individual domains. In addition, some Arab countries are currently blocking the entire .IL namespace as well as very many individual domains.

Evidence that something might happen is a contradiction in terms.

These questions should be part of your risk analysis, they are not unreasonable to consider.

.

[rolf]

Thanks guys. All very useful, what do you think to the secondary market for Hindi? Undervalued?

[bwhhisc]

The major IDN.coms are harvested IMO, the more I'm trying to get some the more it becomes evident to me..
The top generics are way long gone. There are plenty of good reg's in secondary catagories that will eventually be worth a good bit more than reg fee to someone if you plan to hold them a few years. You can get lots of product catagory ideas off EBAY (check total listing to guage popularity) stuff you might consider are things like:

-Products catagories like solar.com, greenhouse.com, generators.com, woodfloors.com, fiberglass.com, insulation, etc.
were open in a a few first tier in .net and many 2nd tier languages in .com but probably gone now.

-Hobbies and sports catagories... like KungFu, TaiChi, PaintBall, Motocross, Woodworking, MixMartialArts, Ceramics, Scrapbooking, Quilting, etc. Find out what is popular in those countries. Sports like "cricket" are popular somewhere, although not played in the states.

Plenty more if you get creative. Make some lists, run your google serps and ovt, ask a native speaker for advice, then register.

[Rubber Duck]

Thanks guys. All very useful, what do you think to the secondary market for Hindi? Undervalued?

There really is hardly any market in Hindi, so prices would have to be reasonable I guess.

[websjapan]

The top generics are way long gone. There are plenty of good reg's in secondary catagories that will eventually be worth a good bit more than reg fee to someone if you plan to hold them a few years. You can get lots of product catagory ideas off EBAY (check total listing to guage popularity) stuff you might consider are things like:

-Products catagories like solar.com, greenhouse.com, generators.com, woodfloors.com, fiberglass.com, insulation, etc.
were open in a a few first tier in .net and many 2nd tier languages in .com but probably gone now.

-Hobbies and sports catagories... like KungFu, TaiChi, PaintBall, Motocross, Woodworking, MixMartialArts, Ceramics, Scrapbooking, Quilting, etc. Find out what is popular in those countries. Sports like "cricket" are popular somewhere, although not played in the states.

Plenty more if you get creative. Make some lists, run your google serps and ovt, ask a native speaker for advice, then register.

WAHOOOO! I got kabaddi in Hindi

go me!

There really is hardly any market in Hindi, so prices would have to be reasonable I guess.

DOH!

[mulligan]

As you well know, apart from a few tasty morcels, I fully admit that I missed the first boat but we still see that the next few boats are docked and queueing up to leave port very, very soon.

The beauty of domains for many is the incredible return on a hand registration.

So, assuming your strategy was to spend say $1000 on acquiring either fresh hand registrations or snapping up undervalued bargains in the secondary market, which countries and sectors would you aim for?

The reason I am asking is not only for my own personal reasons (!) but because I have some good influential contacts within the internet marketing community (lots of big hitters there, as in the domain world). I am currently pitching to them the idea of IDNs and, as you can imagine, many of them are astonished by this. There are additional benefits for them over and above speculation such as SEO value too.

I know that many of you may not care to convince people of the value of IDNs but a new breed of believers can certainly not do any harm to the IDN cause.

Maybe some of you can share some general advice in terms of countries to invest in or even market sectors based on where we are today, without giving away your trade secrets?

thanks
Watch the secondary market and 'shoot' when you feel confident (Don't be afraid to ask trusted members for advice on language, meaning, context etc) ... there are huge bargains available ... Otherwise just watch it all pass you by

[bwhhisc]

WAHOOOO! I got kabaddi in Hindi
go me! DOH!
Probably a good one...not quite up there with soccer mind you.
Kabaddi is the national sport of Punjabi...so I reg'd it in that language.
There are about 100,000,000 speakers of Punjabi, (10th most spoken language in the world)
http://punjabikosh.googlepages.com/

The British army like to play kabaddi...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kabaddi

TEXT: It a popular game in Pakistan,Bangladesh, and the state game of Maharashtra, Punjab and Andhra Pradesh in India.
It is even played by the British Army, seen by them as both a fun and an excellent way to keep fit, but also as an enticement
to recruit more soldiers from the large British Asian community. The name, often chanted during a game, derives from a Hindi
word, meaning "holding of breath", which is a crucial aspect of play.

[Rubber Duck]

Watch the secondary market and 'shoot' when you feel confident (Don't be afraid to ask trusted members for advice on language, meaning, context etc) ... there are huge bargains available ... Otherwise just watch it all pass you by

As with any sport there are more spectators than players generally. Won't be long before we are charging them to watch.:p

[mdw]

Before investing, it might be wise to consider the following:

- Would the government in question like to block some gTLD domains, or all IDN gTLD domains?

- Does the country in question have extremely low PPC?

- Does the domain in question depend on extension aliasing?

Those are just factors to keep in mind, none of them are concrete and the situation can always change.
Well said, the real lesson here is diversify. The gold standard is Japanese domains - these are the "bonds" in your asset mix. Nothing wrong with taking more risk with part of your investment tho. Heck buy Venezuelan domains if you want to just don't put all your eggs into the more risky baskets.


Here is my 2 cents to get the best investment with $ 1000
1) Buy some lists ($100) OR if you have the time, spend dozens if not hundreds of hours researching youself.
2) Do your homework on the names and or/ lists to find the best of the best names.
3) Pay a native speaker to appraise your potential lists ($50)
3) Register the best names (75 .com x $7= $ 550, 20 .jp= $ 300, (or maybe 1-2 .cn)

Total $ 100 + $ 50 + $ 550 + $ 300= $ 1000
I think this is good advice because the most common mistake IMO is people trying to get too may names, even when it means watering down quality. Better to make sure you've got winners, then you don't mind having fewer.

[jacksonm]

Well said, the real lesson here is diversify. The gold standard is Japanese domains - these are the "bonds" in your asset mix.


What do you call a language which has overall higher average PPC and overall higher average CTR than Japanese does?

Hint: GERMAN

.

[Rubber Duck]

The gold standard is Japanese domains - these are the "bonds" in your asset mix.

I think that statement takes some justifying. Personally, I think Japanese is over-rated. The World second biggest economy is in decline and will soon be ranked 4 or 5. Longer-term I would suggest that other languages are much better bets, and may prove better in the short-term as the Japanese seem to have a problem getting their heads around things, although I must admit my type-in on Japanese has bounced back this month.

[thegenius1]

The Japanese Ad Pool is currently Platinum !

[mdw]

Good points. jacksonm you're right: technically german language domains are the best, judging by resale values in particular. But RD you can't actually think people are gonna believe that the size of a national economy is a good way to value domains??

Like it or not there are risks with .CN and .RU that make them too risky to make up the majority of a sensible portfolio IMO. Dot JP and yes .DE are much safer investments because the behavior of respective governments is more predictable.

[Rubber Duck]

The Japanese Ad Pool is currently Platinum !

Because the Japanese have high disposable incomes and relatively well connected to the Internet. 5 years down the line it just ain't going to stack up against Russia, China, India or the Arab World.

Good points. jacksonm you're right: technically german language domains are the best, judging by resale values in particular. But RD you can't actually think people are gonna believe that the size of a national economy is a good way to value domains??

Like it or not there are risks with .CN and .RU that make them too risky to make up the majority of a sensible portfolio IMO. Dot JP and yes .DE are much safer investments because the behavior of respective governments is more predictable.

Yes, it is all about the money. Don't discount the Arabs either. If the US and Japan can still afford to buy oil, they are going to be minted.

[jacksonm]

Good points. jacksonm you're right: technically german language domains are the best, judging by resale values in particular. But RD you can't actually think people are gonna believe that the size of a national economy is a good way to value domains??

Like it or not there are risks with .CN and .RU that make them too risky to make up the majority of a sensible portfolio IMO. Dot JP and yes .DE are much safer investments because the behavior of respective governments is more predictable.

There is a reason why I own a huge pile of German travel IDNs :-)

I also pointed this out the other day about China and Russian government's attitudes being part of your risk assessment. I couldn't agree more. Of course that doesn't mean I ignore these languages, I have over 100 of each of them. I just wouldn't bet the farm on them, and the PPC is beyond crappy.

.

[yanni]

It's not all that cut and dry.

A lot of factors come to play including -but not limited to- your personal short/long term strategy, cctld vs. gtld, local and/or regional acceptance, current internet user behavior, projected behavior, ascii domain patterns and so on.

In other words, don't discount any language or region. Even the less than 6 digit populations. I don't.

[bwhhisc]

In other words, don't discount any language or region. Even the less than 6 digit populations. I don't.
Good advice to spread your risk by diversification.

[yanni]

Good advice to spread your risk by diversification.

You put it so eloquently :)

[rolf]

Thanks very much for your comments guys. They will be useful to myself and many other newbies to IDNs.

I'm actually putting the finishing touches to a short guide that I have been writing on IDN. Of course, I'm not an expert by any means and nor do I claim to be but I do know enough to write a short primer for internet marketers so hopefully this can only help to accelerate the push for IDNs that we know is inevitable anyway.