Is .com in Russia unknown?

[bwhhisc]

This was a pretty interesting Namepros thread about IDNs. Worth the read for those that enjoy both sides of idn speculators opinions.

http://www.namepros.com/idn-discussion/524757-lets-list-top-100-traffic-profitable.html

[Miguel]

Imagine, Google, Yahoo & Classmates didn't have .com presence.
Well,
Yandex, Rambler, & Classmates (одноклассники) don't own their .com extensions.

[bwhhisc]

No other opinions here??

[later777]

I don't have Russian idns (well, a few as they have traffic), although I do speak perfect Russian.
They could have a future but there are a lot of unknowns here.
I don't regret I missed out on Russians since I accumulated enough value in Latins.
Russians would need a push and there are a lot of variables here.
So far, Russians do not use .com, same as Germans. Not to say that this is worthless but it would need work IMO.

[bwhhisc]

I don't have Russian idns (well, a few as they have traffic), although I do speak perfect Russian.
They could have a future but there are a lot of unknowns here.
I don't regret I missed out on Russians since I accumulated enough value in Latins.
Russians would need a push and there are a lot of variables here.
So far, Russians do not use .com, same as Germans. Not to say that this is worthless but it would need work IMO.

In the end its all going to come down to GREAT WEBSITES that will earn page rank and getting you onto Yandex or Google page 1 so people searching find you among the first few listings on the first page of the search engines and click to visit your website.

No one can predict how the search algorithm's from yandex, google, yahoo etc. will be keyed this year, much less the changes they will make in the future. Those that build great quality and content rich websites on top keyword IDNs, maximize keywords and links to other relevant sites, spend on advertising and SEO will probably be the ones who will get the high page rankings whether .com, .ru, .idn etc etc. JMO.

[later777]

In the end its all going to come down to GREAT WEBSITES that will earn page rank and getting you onto Yandex or Google, page 1 so people searching first your on the first page and click on your website. No one can predict how the search algorhythm's from yandex, google, yahoo etc. will be keyed this year, much less the changes they will make in the future. Those that build great quality and content rich websites on top keyword IDNs, maximize keywords and links to other relevant sites, spend on advertising and SEO will probably be the ones wiho get the rankings whether .com, .rf etc etc. JMO.

I never said it was worthless... I'd like to have forex.com in Russian or the likes, that's for sure...
My Germans .com do get traffic too but prime keywords only. There is a potential here.

[bwhhisc]

I never said it was worthless... I'd like to have forex.com in Russian or the likes, that's for sure...
My Germans .com do get traffic too but prime keywords only. There is a potential here.

I take you position as non-latin IDNs are "more speculative". Nothing wrong with your thoughts on the matter,
you did a commendable job and a good service to other domainers in outlining your position and the risks you
see with various language idns.

[Rubber Duck]

Kudos on getting your account suspended at Namepros. You are better off out of that rat infested sewer.

On the Russian market, the one thing that is certain is that dot RU is finished.

The IDN extension RF will no doubt be very successful, but there will be about 6 months of free publicity before you will be able to subscribe for those, and it is going to be pretty tough getting anything reasonable. In the meantime dot com goes from strength to strength. I am stunned by how much dot Net traffic there is on Russian.

[later777]

Kudos on getting your account suspended at Namepros. You are better off out of that rat infested sewer.

.

RD, I always enjoy your british directness. It makes you feel so cozy at times.
As far as Namepros, I requested to cancel my membership there as I agree on your assessment of this outfit.

[phio]

This was a pretty interesting Namepros thread about IDNs. Worth the read for those that enjoy both sides of idn speculators opinions.

http://www.namepros.com/idn-discussion/524757-lets-list-top-100-traffic-profitable.html

Russian has gone from speculation to reality. IMO

That was an interesting read, as I regged some mistakes by using Yandex and
not having knowledge of the intricacies of the language. If I had known how quickly Russian would begin paying for itself I would have ordered more...plus a double-double with grilled onions.

[bwhhisc]

Russian has gone from speculation to reality. IMO

There is no doubt real traffic finding its way to Russian IDNs. It seems to have "magically" started with the large
amount of press releases in Russian newspapers and television during Q4 last year about the new idn.idn (RF) domains.
It has continued to steadily trend up for the last 11 months which is a positive sign.

[phio]

I think another reason for this is content.

There is a lot of Russian content on the web. In just a quick google search for д there are 224,000,000 results. d (english/latin) has over 5 billion results.

I think one thing we tend to forget is that the content in many non-english languages has been increasing at an exponential rate. Thus giving extra ooomph to the future of IDNs.

[Explorer]

No other opinions here??

We could either listen to people's opinions (one person on NP, really) online or get the facts and stats from our Russian IDNs on NameDrive. I guess we all have to choose :-)

[Fka200]

...plus a double-double with grilled onions.

http://scott.club365.net/uploaded_images/drooling_homer-712749.gif

We could either listen to people's opinions (one person on NP, really) online or get the facts and stats from our Russian IDNs on NameDrive. I guess we all have to choose :-)

Agreed. I argued in the Indian IDN thread that it doesn't matter anymore what others say when we have all the stats we need just by logging in. If you have good IDNs, I'm sure you've witnessed the growth within the last 1-2 years. I'm just hoping we can keep experiencing the same amount of growth in terms of % for the next 5 years and we should be golden. Of course, being in the game, I do expect a huge amount of growth in 5 years time. A majority of my portfolio is willing to wait.

[Jay]

We could either listen to people's opinions (one person on NP, really) online or get the facts and stats from our Russian IDNs on NameDrive. I guess we all have to choose :-)

The problem is that parking stats don't give you an accurate picture.

For example, I think it's fairly well established that Russian type-in is coming via the Opera effect and is not real type-in. This also means that Russian .nets are not as far behind in real performance as their aftermarket value would seem to suggest. Effects from spill-over traffic and the Google honeymoon also distort parking statistics, amongst other factors.

Until people start producing and discussing some detailed analytics, I'm afraid there are no facts guiding any of these discussions or the value of IDNs in general. Everyone is just speculating, except for the few who have done the detailed analysis and are mostly keeping that information to themselves.

[Explorer]

is not real type-in.

really?

[khurtsiya]

really?

I can confirm that from google analytics stats. Most visitors are from Opera.

But I am still wondering from where comes traffic to фотошоп.net (photoshop.net) - Nov 15 - Nov 20 = 145 visitors...

[Rubber Duck]

Russian hit new highs yesterday, both dot com and dot net!

If Opera is responsible for the dot Com traffic, who is responsible for the dot Net traffic that we were so reliably told would not happen before the next ice age?

Frankly, I don't even know why I still read all this crap. :p

[Rubber Duck]

http://scott.club365.net/uploaded_images/drooling_homer-712749.gif



Agreed. I argued in the Indian IDN thread that it doesn't matter anymore what others say when we have all the stats we need just by logging in. If you have good IDNs, I'm sure you've witnessed the growth within the last 1-2 years. I'm just hoping we can keep experiencing the same amount of growth in terms of % for the next 5 years and we should be golden. Of course, being in the game, I do expect a huge amount of growth in 5 years time. A majority of my portfolio is willing to wait.

The same growth would be an unmitigated disaster, what we are expecting and will receive is exponential growth. Indeed, I think the the S curve is starting to head skywards as we speak. :)

[Drewbert]

The "Opera effect" is very good at raising awareness that Native Language Domain Names (NLDN's) exist though, isn't it?

[Jay]

The "Opera effect" is very good at raising awareness that Native Language Domain Names (NLDN's) exist though, isn't it?

Well its evidence that the inclination of many is to type in their native characters, so that is a good sign for IDNs. I guess the fact that it resolves to something has some awareness value, although it would be better if it resolved to something more than a parked page!. The only question is how will IDN.com stack up against .IDN ccTLDs when they are released in Russia?

It's a reminder that development is the only sure path for IDN.com in Russia as elsewhere (presuming Google don't greatly devalue .com relative to ccTLDs on native SEs that is). That is why I'm amazed at the lack of interest of some members in development. The lack of progress on this front is likely to kill IDN.com in the battle with IDN.IDN. This notion that companies will just gravitate to .com over ccTLDs on the power of its brandability is just complete rubbish. We've already seen IDN.com get annihilated in Germany, and it will be even worse in the non-Latin countries unless people here wisen up and do something big on the development front.

[Jay]

Russian hit new highs yesterday, both dot com and dot net!
Thanks for sharing those detailed analytics Dave. I think you just proved my point.

[Rubber Duck]

Yeah, just like developing made a success out of Info, Mobi, Pro, Name, Travel and all the other Wannabees. The only really successful extension are those that were successful before the Domainer phenomenon came along.

Tell me why domainers developing domains is going to make any difference to anything. Christ enough of the guys on here went at it hammer and tongues on Japanese, both dot Com and dot JP, before you even showed up. What difference did it make. Absolutely none. Olney clear wobbled of his rocker developing Japanese domains. Where the hell is he now? Bloody nowhere, that is where.

The reason these will be successful is because it is just about inevitable. Even where ccTLDs dominate, and I admit it is conceivable they might, but in most case unlikely, there is going to be plenty market for everyone.

As for dot RF, they are going to be blowing their horn for at least six months before anything happens. That is six months for dot com to get established. If you don't think Verisign cannot get a good share of the market in that time, then you ain't learnt nothing.

Well its evidence that the inclination of many is to type in their native characters, so that is a good sign for IDNs. I guess the fact that it resolves to something has some awareness value, although it would be better if it resolved to something more than a parked page!. The only question is how will IDN.com stack up against .IDN ccTLDs when they are released in Russia?

It's a reminder that development is the only sure path for IDN.com in Russia as elsewhere (presuming Google don't greatly devalue .com relative to ccTLDs on native SEs that is). That is why I'm amazed at the lack of interest of some members in development. The lack of progress on this front is likely to kill IDN.com in the battle with IDN.IDN. This notion that companies will just gravitate to .com over ccTLDs on the power of its brandability is just complete rubbish. We've already seen IDN.com get annihilated in Germany, and it will be even worse in the non-Latin countries unless people here wisen up and do something big on the development front.

[Jay]

Yeah, just like developing made a success out of Info, Mobi, Pro, Name, Travel and all the other Wannabees.
They couldn't compete with .com - plain and simple, and Google helped ensure that .com prevailed. But that is the Western market you are talking about. My understanding is that IDN.com has a much better potential (for the time being at least) of getting love from Google in foreign SEs, and for most markets it has no IDN rivals (not yet at least). So there is no comparison.

As for dot RF, they are going to be blowing their horn for at least six months before anything happens. That is six months for dot com to get established. If you don't think Verisign cannot get a good share of the market in that time, then you ain't learnt nothing.
Yes, I nearly forgot about Verisign, our great silent saviours. I'm sure they will descend out of the clouds and stamp all over the ccTLDs. I'm just wondering how exactly?

There is a window of opportunity for .com to get established before ccTLDs are released, but without development that opportunity will be lost. Most companies will hold off making any serious moves until ccTLDs come out and they can gauge the market. That leaves it for us to get IDN.com on the map in the meantime. So what is your plan to make that happen?

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, you are right. We need development and we need it big time. But we need it from native corporates that are going to throw at least 6 or 7 figures at it. Do you seriously think rabbit on here to those that won't stump up 50 bucks for a half decent name is going to hack it.There is no shortage of development in China. There are tens of thousands of developed IDN sites. What is missing is the offline advertising. Why is it missing. Because it is f*cking pointless advertising names that don't resolve, so we are full circle back to the incompetence of ICANN and Microsoft, but even they can't keep screwing things up indefinitely when faced with the resolve of the entire civilized World.

[Drewbert]

It's a reminder that development is the only sure path for IDN.com in Russia as elsewhere (presuming Google don't greatly devalue .com relative to ccTLDs on native SEs that is). That is why I'm amazed at the lack of interest of some members in development.

The key to development is getting revenue from the resultant site.

At present most Russian affiliate programs only pay to local bank accounts, so that's a real spanner in the works.

If there was a Russian equivalent to eBay or Amazon that had an aff program that paid foreigners, I'd have 50 multi-page sites developed by tomorrow morning.

http://xn--digitlisfnykpezgpek-uub6ode80w.com - example site for Hungarian auction site TeszVesz - unfortunately, I can only spend my earnings on their site so have to patiently wait for a decent domain name to come up for auction there.

[Rubber Duck]

Yeah, and if you don't think Corporate America is a busted flush, then read this relating to those morons at Intuit:

Dear Dave

Quickbooks Update

Further to my previous email I have now tried updating ONA Europe Ltd, but as it has multi currency enabled I am unable to upgrade it to Quickbooks 2008. Multi currency is no longer a feature of Quickbooks 2008.

This leaves us with 3 options as follows:

1.
Upgrade ONA Europe Ltd and Principal Inspections Ltd to Quickbooks 2006 rather than 2008 as this is the last version that supports multi currency. I can then process the opening adjustments for you.
2.
Upgrade Principal Inspections Ltd to Quickbooks 2008 and create a new Quickbooks 2008 file for ONA Europe Ltd. There would be a charge for this as it will take some time to create the opening balances and accounts (particularly stock items as these can not be imported).
3.
Remain on your current version of Quickbooks and process the adjustments yourself.

Please let me know which option you would prefer and I will sort out the Quickbooks files accordingly.

Regards

Joel Sendrowski

[phio]

There is a window of opportunity for .com to get established before ccTLDs are released, but without development that opportunity will be lost. Most companies will hold off making any serious moves until ccTLDs come out and they can gauge the market. That leaves it for us to get IDN.com on the map in the meantime. So what is your plan to make that happen?

I was hoping that whypark would become UTF-8 compatable, because I like their platform for quick development and adsense adds in native languages.

I wouldn't call whypark sites "development", but they do look better than typical parked pages, and would definately be a step in the right direction for IDN promotion. I have access to native Russian writers who could write good content for articles ect.

I do plan on developing one Russian site in the next few months, but I would also like to focus on Vietnamese and Thai as I see them as coming up quickly in 2009.

[Drewbert]

Multi currency is no longer a feature of Quickbooks 2008.


Morans!

[yanni]

Morans!

typo. a real moron could take this away from you.

[Drewbert]

Picture of QuickBooks Product Manager unveiled...

http://forums.macworld.com/message/629226

Along with Support Manager...

http://gawker.com/5007897/lurn-to-speek-english-morans

And Corporate Head Office...

http://punditkitchen.com/2008/10/20/political-pictures-front-yard-confederate-flag-folksiness-sarah/

[Jay]

The key to development is getting revenue from the resultant site.
Yep, individual efforts will result in development that is for the most part amateurish, and the best we will get is a bit more Adsense revenue (if we're lucky). If that helps cover my renewal fees, I'm mildly happy with that, but it won't cover the costs of development and it certainly won't get IDN.com on the map and make us all rich.

So the development will need to be funded by corporate backing, and offer real products/services that are widely advertised. That much we all agree (I think). The problem is, what is the plan to get this backing so that we can take advantage of the window of opportunity that is rapidly approaching? If they don't just come knocking at the door like some people expect, then it will be too late - ccTLDs will be released and it will be game over. We need a plan man!

[phio]

Sounds like it's time for our first IDN meeting.

If anyone is open to having a meeting in Los Angeles, I'm willing to find a way to host it. I have an inside connection with Marriott hotels. We could also video-conference/telepresence to the UK and Australia/Asia.

Probably should be done on or before April 2009.

[555]

Anywhere in Europe will be great.

[phio]

Perhaps the UK or France would work. Spring in Paris sounds pretty good to me...:D

[phio]

We could probably get sponsors to provide a discount rate for IDNforums members. I think we would need at least 50 attendees to make it work.

Paris:

1. Marriott's Village d'lle-de-France
Marriott's Village d'lle-de-France Marriott's Village d'lle-de-France

Allee de L'Orme-Rond

Bailly Romainvilliers , France 77700

33 1-60429000


South Coast of France:
Riviera Marriott Hotel La Porte de Monaco
Riviera Marriott Hotel La Porte de Monaco Riviera Marriott Hotel La Porte de Monaco

Port de Cap d'Ail

Cap d'Ail , France 06320

33 492-106767

[Fka200]

The "Opera effect" is very good at raising awareness that Native Language Domain Names (NLDN's) exist though, isn't it?


Any publicity is good publicity. It all boils down to IDN.IDN... which in the end, should work out well. Even when, I still have a feeling people will be branding as IDN.com and IDN.net. People don't really like change and .com/.net makes them feel safe and snuggly... it's just the reassurance that IDN.IDN resolves to my IDN.com/.net would make me feel safe and snuggly to push ahead with a lot that I've left on the back burner.

[Drewbert]

Sounds like it's time for our first IDN meeting.

If anyone is open to having a meeting in Los Angeles, I'm willing to find a way to host it. I have an inside connection with Marriott hotels. We could also video-conference/telepresence to the UK and Australia/Asia.

Probably should be done on or before April 2009.

AN IDN meeting in the stomping ground of ICANN. Don't think so, Buddy!

Plus most of us would have to get visa's and submit to all sorts of cavity searches and laptop seizures on arrival at Checkpoint Charlie.

Asia or Europe is where we should meet, because then we're at ground zero after the meeting to go and visit the people we need to talk to about getting sites developed.

We could also try to pull in all the big portfolio lurkers - so Germany might be the best bet. :)

We also don't need to have it in a big city, I'd prefer somewhere quiet and peaceful - somewhere with a train station (so we can get there by high speed train) and a nice hotel with broadband. Oh, and a casino that does texas hold'em. Montreux sounds good to me. Not quite Germany but pretty close.

There is talk of a domainer get-together in the UK soon. We might be able to piggy back of that and kill two birds with one stone.

[phio]

Perhaps we could have take a poll on an IDN meeting...if we schedule out 9 months to a year we'll have a better success. 8)

[Drewbert]

50's a bit too big and impersonal.

All we need is 10-20 hardcore IDN'ers.

[Jay]

a casino that does texas hold'em
Now you're talking.

I'm not sure, though, how many of us would be able to attend (I'm particularly speaking for those of us in Australia, Asia and the West Coast), but participation via video conference would be okay.

Beyond a joint meeting, it is probably a good idea to have language specific working groups, as not all of us have the same language focus. For example, my Russian portfolio is small but Vietnamese is large. So I'm happy to be part of a working group that looks at SE Asia and works to get corporations involved from there. Both Phio and I have already made plans to get the ball rolling on that front, and others are welcome to join us.

[Fka200]

Hrm. A Europe meeting?

I definitely want to attend an IDN meeting... let me figure out what's going on with the finances and if I can spend extra on a ticket to Europe.

:: Excited :: :)

[sbe18]

we need to do the first one online..

www.dimdim.com

allows a private free web conference for 20....

I am game for my timezone of Arizona to be dogshit to GMT's for 'EU/ Asia..

I am sure Bram , Bill ...will join in...

then we can do the real deal in Chang Mai Thailand....(grin).....

Steve....

[mulligan]

Web conference is a good idea, it's a start at least.
Might be worth considering having a monthly? / quarterly? meeting online anyway.
Maybe buy software ourselves and host it so meetings stay private.

Chang Mai sounds good ... (Mainly because it's just 'up the road' from me ... :))

[jose]

Web conference is a good idea, it's a start at least.


MSN Messenger does it... sort of.

[touchring]

MSN Messenger does it... sort of.



the corporate likes to do things the "corporate way". companies can pay hundreds for an hour of videoconferencing when it can be done for free using msn.

[Rubber Duck]

Well back on topic, I have had the best three day run ever at Namedrive.

And as ever Russian IDN.coms are leading the way.

We are just about at break-even point for our portfolio of some 500 Russian domain names.

If only lame duck languages such as Japanese were anything like so viable. :)

[Explorer]

Well back on topic, I have had the best three day run ever at Namedrive.

And as ever Russian IDN.coms are leading the way.



Might just be a perfect post to close this "is .com in Russian unknown?" thread.

[gammascalper]

Well back on topic, I have had the best three day run ever at Namedrive.

And as ever Russian IDN.coms are leading the way.

We are just about at break-even point for our portfolio of some 500 Russian domain names.

If only lame duck languages such as Japanese were anything like so viable. :)

Same. I'm at slightly higher than breakeven. Others I've spoken to are seeing about the same, so it's not among a concentrated set of names, opera effect or no opera effect.

Now if NameDrive wouldn't ratchet down PPC at the end of the day, it would be SICK. SICK, I tell ya.

[phio]

Glad I took a самые on Russian .coms It's the most bestest decision yet. :p

[Jay]

Might just be a perfect post to close this "is .com in Russian unknown?" thread.

Well if you want the proper answer, stop looking at your parking stats and look at the Alexa top 100 for Russia. 22% of sites are .com. However, excluding foreign visited sites, Russian webmasters overwhelmingly prefer .ru (37% in English and 55% in transliterated Russian), with a secondary preference for .net (5%). I could see only one .com site in the list being used for a Russian website.

So on this basis Russians are familiar with .com but do not use it for their own websites (by way of contrast, Vietnamese webmasters are fairly evenly split in their preference for .com/.net against .vn/.com.vn). So a Russian user looking to find a website in their own language - well, no prizes for guessing what extension they are likely to type in.

Conclusion - develop, or else hope that Opera continues to extend its market share and doesn't change its configuration.

[Rubber Duck]

Well if you want the proper answer, stop looking at your parking stats and look at the Alexa top 100 for Russia. 22% of sites are .com. However, excluding foreign visited sites, Russian webmasters overwhelmingly prefer .ru (37% in English and 55% in transliterated Russian), with a secondary preference for .net (5%). I could see only one .com site in the list being used for a Russian website.

So on this basis Russians are familiar with .com but do not use it for their own websites (by way of contrast, Vietnamese webmasters are fairly evenly split in their preference for .com/.net against .vn/.com.vn). So a Russian user looking to find a website in their own language - well, no prizes for guessing what extension they are likely to type in.

Conclusion - develop, or else hope that Opera continues to extend its market share and doesn't change its configuration.


Alexa?

And you expect to be taken seriously?:wacko:

[Jay]

I forgot - you had already provided the answer based on your Namedrive stats. :lol:

[Rubber Duck]

I forgot - you had already provided the answer based on your Namedrive stats. :lol:


Namedrive does the job right.

Alexa produces delusional statistics for the US.

Have you ever been to the Chinese or Russian version of the site?

[Jay]

Namedrive does the job right.
Namedrive stats can't tell you anything about the popularity of .com in Russia. Absolutely nothing. It is totally illogical to refer to ND stats in this thread.

Alexa produces delusional statistics for the US.As a general indicator, it will do. If anything, I believe it biases Western sites, so the situation for .com in Russia is probably worse. Do you have a better indicator (and please don't cite your ND stats)?

[Rubber Duck]

Those that think Development is the answer have got it half right and half wrong.

Firstly, they understand they need a miracle.

Secondly, they think they can deliver one. :p

The bottom line is, when your domains really suck, they really do suck!

[domainguru]

Namedrive stats can't tell you anything about the popularity of .com in Russia. Absolutely nothing. It is totally illogical to refer to ND stats in this thread.

As a general indicator, it will do. If anything, I believe it biases Western sites, so the situation for .com in Russia is probably worse. Do you have a better indicator (and please don't cite your ND stats)?

For many (most?) countries in the world, Alexa is without doubt, complete crap. It was always dubious at best, even for their main market in the US, and for other markets, unless the website is massively popular, you just can't take any notice. Ask anyone in Asia about Alexa - you will just get blank looks.

Serious business people do not use Alexa to measure traffic, there are much better measures around. Alexa is free, you get what you pay for.

[Rubber Duck]

Just to clarify that last remark.

Development is fine to improve the value of a domain within a market.

If you actually think it is going to have a significant impact on the direction of that market without big budget advertising, then you are utterly clueless.