Value of .рф versus the value .ком

[idn]

This may be a little premature, but I am curious of the forum's opinion. Apologize ahead of time if your perfect choice is not listed.

[phio]

For cities, regions and banned words, The value of idn.ком will be more than idn.рф...obviously

[sarcle]

For cities, regions and banned words, The value of idn.ком will be more than idn.рф...obviously

There's also the wild cards. Domains that have been reserved by the registry to be used for other purposes. And many decent to great generics that were registered under the guise of a Russian "trademark" application that no one had a chance to register. To get a .kom you never had a chance to get in .rf will not hurt your business or a consumer's ability to remember it.

I also think there are many variables.

[idn]

Does anyone know if single letters are reserved?

[555]

Does anyone know if single letters are reserved?
Looks like they are.

3.3.2.1. минимальная длина доменного имени составляет 2 символа (без учета символов «.РФ»). Максимальная длина доменного имени определяется длиной представления. Длина представления не должна превышать 63 символа (без учета символов «.РФ»);

http://www.cctld.ru/ru/docs/rulesrf.php

[idn]

Looks like they are.

3.3.2.1. минимальная длина доменного имени составляет 2 символа (без учета символов «.РФ»). Максимальная длина доменного имени определяется длиной представления. Длина представления не должна превышать 63 символа (без учета символов «.РФ»);

http://www.cctld.ru/ru/docs/rulesrf.php

Thanks, DKG

[jose]

So far, 30% think it will be worth more, 70% same or below

[gammascalper]

Thanks, DKG

DKG, I like it. Now we have a DNG and DKG :)

[Teo]

I would like to say that you never know what will going to happen with your .рф. domain.

For me is a risky business. One day you will have it , on the next day they can change the rules and you can lost it because you have some improper material.

For me .ком is more secure.

[Fka200]

Go with what you know you will still own the next morning (assuming you continuously renew :))

[Avtal]

Go with what you know you will still own the next morning (assuming you continuously renew :))

I agree, but that isn't what the poll is asking.

For investors, .ком is more attractive. But the price difference (if any) between .ком and .рф will be driven by end users, most of whom live in Russia. They have already figured out how to run their businesses in Russia, so they may not be as bothered as we are by the uncertainty surrounding .рф domains.

Avtal

[bumblebee man]

I agree, but that isn't what the poll is asking.

For investors, .ком is more attractive. But the price difference (if any) between .ком and .рф will be driven by end users, most of whom live in Russia. They have already figured out how to run their businesses in Russia, so they may not be as bothered as we are by the uncertainty surrounding .рф domains.

Avtal

True, there was a huge amount of uncertainty with .ru as well, but most Russians didn't seem to care.

I'd guess around 25% with a few exeptions (the ones you cant get in .рф).

[squirrel]

True, there was a huge amount of uncertainty with .ru as well, but most Russians didn't seem to care.


that's because there wasn't any alternative.
.ru was the most russian you could get back then.

The Russian people are hungry for russian domains,
at 10$ a pop, first come first served basis, no auction BS, + guarantee that you won't lose your domain, goodwill and incoming mails overnight on some shady tax evasion/morality/TM/national interest/you-name-it issue, .ком will find some takers.

But at the end of the day, traffic is king :p
What will the Russians/Kazakhs/Ukrainians type-in ? I don't know.

Will international brands use .рф and redirect .ком ? don't know

Will the "Russian Internet Police" park at Sedo or Namedrive ? don't know



One thing that is fo shizzle is that the longer verisign waits, the steeper the hill.

[Rubber Duck]

Well, it is very slow but the dot RU registery already seems to be contracting.

[Teo]

squirrel - very good point about the other russian speaking countries. For me .ком will be the king in that case and .ком always will be over nationality domain.

[chrisofmel]

25%

[blastfromthepast]

Demand is so high, you'll see good prices.

[idn]

I'm utterly shocked that 12 people said worth more. The only educated conclusion I can come up with is you all believe that government corruption will significantly devalue the .rf. I realize it is all a matter of opinion, but I think many of you are eternal optimists!

[IDNCowboy]

The big corporations may just hold their .рф and not develop it... may just hold out for an offer........... Ya know all the shell companies registering the names ;)

[blastfromthepast]

I'm utterly shocked that 12 people said worth more. The only educated conclusion I can come up with is you all believe that government corruption will significantly devalue the .rf. I realize it is all a matter of opinion, but I think many of you are eternal optimists!

While corruption is something many in Russia embrace, risk is something everyone tries to avoid.

Many major Russian companies are in fact incorporated in off-shore countries. Why? To get away from the risk of property confication. Exactly the same reason why one would want to avoid operating a website .РФ. Example: domain owner is responsible for all user content on domain (no operator safe harbor laws).

The excitement is about IDN.IDN, and the only choice available right now is IDN.РФ. If .КОМ was on offer today, you'd see a different picture as well.

[IDNCowboy]

Did any small guys get premium .рф names? With the others going for high prices our .ком hopefuls are ripe for the pickings.

[sarcle]

Did any small guys get premium .рф names? With the others going for high prices our .ком hopefuls are ripe for the pickings.

That's the biggest obstacle right now. Most people aren't even aware there is a choice. We, IDNers, know about .ком. The average Russian doesn't.

[555]

imo it's a fun poll but we can't make any conclusions from it. Not only because it's too early to say for so many various factors, to name a few:

- No porn in .rf
- Government control in .rf
- Some generic names and geo's are reserved for government use in .rf
- Has an official connotation to it.

The reason it can't teach us nothing imo is that each name is owned by a different registrant with different circumstances,different understanding levels and different opportunities...So how can we tell what % the .com will be compared to the .rf when in reality, it is impossible to price domains (would you pay 400k+ for laon.com i.e? Someone did.)

After all, it is .com you are talking about, Nothing new to anyone in Russia or anywhere else for that matter and to remind everyone, it is the world's biggest brand (what does the competitors puma,adidas and nike, audi, mercedes and bmw, dell, hp and ibm etc etc share except theyre .com's?)

[idn]

While corruption is something many in Russia embrace, risk is something everyone tries to avoid.

Many major Russian companies are in fact incorporated in off-shore countries. Why? To get away from the risk of property confication. Exactly the same reason why one would want to avoid operating a website .РФ. Example: domain owner is responsible for all user content on domain (no operator safe harbor laws).

The excitement is about IDN.IDN, and the only choice available right now is IDN.РФ. If .КОМ was on offer today, you'd see a different picture as well.

The flaw I see in your statement is that .ru was/is immensely popular. I don't see how .rf would change the risk profile. (I'm on my iPhone, sorry so short)

[blastfromthepast]

I'm seeing an uptick in IDN.com Russian registrations by domainers from Russia and Ukraine in the last few days.
If the rush comes, this space will be wiped out, and even IDNf members who got in late will be happy they got what they got.

[blastfromthepast]

The flaw I see in your statement is that .ru was/is immensely popular. I don't see how .rf would change the risk profile. (I'm on my iPhone, sorry so short)

Yes, it was popular, on the other hand, the resale value of .ru was always very low compared with even IDN.com prices today.

[idn]

I think it is more than just a fun poll :)

I am trying to gather some real opinions. At the end of the day speculating on unknowns is what we have been doing for years! Once everything falls into A place my speculative decisions turn into logical decisions.



imo it's a fun poll but we can't make any conclusions from it. Not only because it's too early to say for so many various factors, to name a few:

- No porn in .rf
- Government control in .rf
- Some generic names and geo's are reserved for government use in .rf
- Has an official connotation to it.

The reason it can't teach us nothing imo is that each name is owned by a different registrant with different circumstances,different understanding levels and different opportunities...So how can we tell what % the .com will be compared to the .rf when in reality, it is impossible to price domains (would you pay 400k+ for laon.com i.e? Someone did.)

After all, it is .com you are talking about, Nothing new to anyone in Russia or anywhere else for that matter and to remind everyone, it is the world's biggest brand (what does the competitors puma,adidas and nike, audi, mercedes and bmw, dell, hp and ibm etc etc share except theyre .com's?)

[555]

At the end of the day speculating on unknowns is what we have been doing for years!I don't think idn's were ever a speculation. It's like bread,butter,rice,flour...A necessity.

[idn]

Yes, it was popular, on the other hand, the resale value of .ru was always very low compared with even IDN.com prices today.

What are some of the highest .ru sales?

[555]

What are some of the highest .ru sales?
I am not sure what it was, but i am 99% certain there was never a .ru sale of more then 200k.
2014.ru sold for 80k

From dnsaleprice:

Hi ru $80,600 Jan 10 RU-Center 1 2 N N http://Hi.ru DNJournal
TripAdvisor ru $50,000 Oct 10 Sedo 2 11 N N http://TripAdvisor.ru DNJournal
StatOil ru $32,568 Feb 09 Sedo 2 7 N N http://StatOil.ru Sedo
Handmade ru $31,364 Sep 07 Sedo Auction 1 8 N N http://Handmade.ru Sedo
OVH ru $22,770 Oct 10 Sedo 1 3 N N http://OVH.ru DNJournal
Local ru $20,000 Sep 10 Sedo 1 5 N N http://Local.ru DNJournal
NetFlix ru $12,000 Nov 09 Sedo 2 7 N N http://NetFlix.ru Sedo
Remer ru $11,134 Jul 09 Sedo 1 5 N N http://Remer.ru Sedo
Kanikuly ru $8,000 May 05 Sedo 1 8 N N http://Kanikuly.ru DNJournal
Parents ru $7,000 Jul 09 Sedo 1 7 N N http://Parents.ru DNJournal
GoPoker ru $6,741 Aug 07 Sedo 2 7 N N http://GoPoker.ru DNJournal
Soup ru $6,409 Sep 06 Sedo 1 4 N N http://Soup.ru DNJournal
Diddl ru $5,640 Jul 09 Sedo 1 5 N N http://Diddl.ru DNJournal
Maleev ru $5,000 Jul 10 Sedo 1 6 N N http://Maleev.ru DNJournal
Rubiz ru $4,200 Jan 10 Sedo 1 5 N N http://Rubiz.ru DNJournal
Urbi ru $4,000 Jan 10 Sedo 1 4 N N http://Urbi.ru DNJournal
Tyco ru $3,000 May 09 Sedo Auction 1 4 N N http://Tyco.ru Sedo
Blogger ru $3,000 Oct 06 Sedo 1 7 N N http://Blogger.ru DNJournal
Franchise ru $2,780 Jan 04 Afternic 1 9 N N http://Franchise.ru DNJournal
Emigranti ru $2,662 Oct 09 Sedo 1 9 N N http://Emigranti.ru Sedo

Maybe casino.ru, for 250k: http://internet.cnews.ru/news/line/index.shtml?2008/11/18/328123

[idn]

I don't think idn's were ever a speculation. It's like bread,butter,rice,flour...A necessity.

So when I choose to invest more in IDN.com than IDN.jp I'm not speculating? I could be very wrong. I realize I should diversify but I own more .coms

[IDNCowboy]

So with all these .рф high priced IDN auction sales what is the word from the "Domainer" know it alls... RS etc

One world one language :P ENGLISH ENGLISH!!!

[555]

So when I choose to invest more in IDN.com than IDN.jp I'm not speculating? I could be very wrong. I realize I should diversify but I own more .coms
You are speculating on which idn's will make what % of your idn portfolio, and you are hoping the % which is the majority of your portfolio will lead the other options available to that specific market(s), but my point is that idn success and need was never a specualtion, Which idn's will be more desirable then others is a speculation to some degree, sure.

[IDNCowboy]

So when I choose to invest more in IDN.com than IDN.jp I'm not speculating? I could be very wrong. I realize I should diversify but I own more .coms

I can take good care of you. Take out your centurion amex and PM me :)

[sarcle]

I can take good care of you. Take out your centurion amex and PM me :)

Thought you were needing some Russians? Maybe you can work out a deal? ;)

[IDNCowboy]

Thought you were needing some Russians? Maybe you can work out a deal? ;)

LOL we are entering gold fever land now with this news..... :P

MINE Not yours lol

Seriously lets trade if we can come to agreements ;-)
better now than later

[555]

Seriously lets trade if we can come to agreements ;-)

$10 you can't come to any agreements (swap deals) we tried that with Drew and Gary around 3 years ago in ICANN Paris, 0 swaps after more then one hour of negotiations.

[idn]

You are speculating on which idn's will make what % of your idn portfolio, and you are hoping the % which is the majority of your portfolio will lead the other options available to that specific market(s).

Hence the reason for this thread as I still think there are plenty of opportunities to acquire Cyrillic IDN.coms at a reasonable price and therefore I am trying to gather educated opinions via the poll or the thread. :)

[555]

Hence the reason for this thread as I still think there are plenty of opportunities to acquire Cyrillic IDN.coms at a reasonable price and therefore I am trying to gather educated opinions via the poll or the thread. :)
A couple examples which can't show much, as it's 2 of millions but i hope it will help explain what i am trying to say...

the domains i.e dom .com and kvartira .com was registered years prior to kvartira .ru and dom .ru (kvartira is the transileration for the word apartment in Russian and dom = home).

I think it is not right to say .ru dominates (or should i now say dominated) the Russian domain market and that most Russians prefer .ru

As like for many others, .com often was taken prior to the tld selection ability luxury and now what we are seeing, as blast mentioned, is the excitement over the fact they now got 100% Cyrillic domains, and again, since its .com we are talking about, i don't see any tld, especially not a new tld, that will get the chance to dominate .com, Not with all the difficulties and limitations cctld's carry.

I really am trying to remain objective, i don't think that just because, but only because it is .com, and there is nothing that comes close in the history of the world that had so much money pushed into it by practically everyone around, globally, and in our faces in every format you can imagine multiplied by 39420493333343245640589390204598684 (appx.) :)

[sbe18]

russian IDN com's to KOM are not going to have the cnnic /verisign bullshit with
gongsi.

I believe all the IDN . idn cctld's will have 'official' or institutional connotations for good while.

just from a branding stand point.

'sex toy distributors' dot CN , or dot PO in IDN would 50/50 pass the authorities let's say.


but IDN.com for the 2 in russian and chinese at least the company won't lose the name,
it gets to stay in business even if blocked, yet easy to get to by proxy.

business.RF in IDN means business.Russian Federation
but the
business.KOM IDN when it arrives...means Business.com in Russian globally

or a business that is global in scope and reach etc....

simply...RD is right...
we have to put up with the screams from the RU crowd as it collapses.
and we have to put up with silent hypocrisy of the PPC ascii old guard.

s/

[blastfromthepast]

$10 you can't come to any agreements (swap deals) we tried that with Drew and Gary around 3 years ago in ICANN Paris, 0 swaps after more then one hour of negotiations.

I've made some nice swaps with some other people who used to hang out here though. :eek:

[idn]

I am not sure what it was, but i am 99% certain there was never a .ru sale of more then 200k.
2014.ru sold for 80k

From dnsaleprice:

Hi ru $80,600 Jan 10 RU-Center 1 2 N N http://Hi.ru DNJournal
TripAdvisor ru $50,000 Oct 10 Sedo 2 11 N N http://TripAdvisor.ru DNJournal
StatOil ru $32,568 Feb 09 Sedo 2 7 N N http://StatOil.ru Sedo
Handmade ru $31,364 Sep 07 Sedo Auction 1 8 N N http://Handmade.ru Sedo
OVH ru $22,770 Oct 10 Sedo 1 3 N N http://OVH.ru DNJournal
Local ru $20,000 Sep 10 Sedo 1 5 N N http://Local.ru DNJournal
NetFlix ru $12,000 Nov 09 Sedo 2 7 N N http://NetFlix.ru Sedo
Remer ru $11,134 Jul 09 Sedo 1 5 N N http://Remer.ru Sedo
Kanikuly ru $8,000 May 05 Sedo 1 8 N N http://Kanikuly.ru DNJournal
Parents ru $7,000 Jul 09 Sedo 1 7 N N http://Parents.ru DNJournal
GoPoker ru $6,741 Aug 07 Sedo 2 7 N N http://GoPoker.ru DNJournal
Soup ru $6,409 Sep 06 Sedo 1 4 N N http://Soup.ru DNJournal
Diddl ru $5,640 Jul 09 Sedo 1 5 N N http://Diddl.ru DNJournal
Maleev ru $5,000 Jul 10 Sedo 1 6 N N http://Maleev.ru DNJournal
Rubiz ru $4,200 Jan 10 Sedo 1 5 N N http://Rubiz.ru DNJournal
Urbi ru $4,000 Jan 10 Sedo 1 4 N N http://Urbi.ru DNJournal
Tyco ru $3,000 May 09 Sedo Auction 1 4 N N http://Tyco.ru Sedo
Blogger ru $3,000 Oct 06 Sedo 1 7 N N http://Blogger.ru DNJournal
Franchise ru $2,780 Jan 04 Afternic 1 9 N N http://Franchise.ru DNJournal
Emigranti ru $2,662 Oct 09 Sedo 1 9 N N http://Emigranti.ru Sedo

Maybe casino.ru, for 250k: http://internet.cnews.ru/news/line/index.shtml?2008/11/18/328123

Thanks for posting these. Historical resale prices seem awfully low for .ru. I am waiting for the news to break that states the .rf auction prices are being artificially inflated.

[Emperor]

This is my take (guess?):

1. for those who want a site dealing with products / concerns / businesses that transcend Russia's border, .com will be better. If only interested in having Russian visitors dealing with Russian exclusive issues / products / services, .rf is better.

2. Same story for those who want to reach Russian speakers living outside Russia

3. Any guidance possible from the IDN .com / .jp value comparison in Japan?

[idn]

3. Any guidance possible from the IDN .com / .jp value comparison in Japan?

Nope. :)

[Emperor]

One thing that may give .rf a strong leg up is that, if the .rf auction is legitimate, I am guessing that a lot of bidders are actually paying for these domain names to develop, not to invest in for resale or PPC (versus most .com generic registrations so far). If true, .rf will likely have a lot more developed sites up and running versus .com.

If that happens, then .rf will be the clear leader.

[blastfromthepast]

Another thing to consider:

Think of yourself as Mr. Average Enduser in Russia. You're starting out. You see yourself as being progressive. Afterall, only 40% of Russians use the internet. You don't have PayPal. You don't want to use an English interface, too annoying. You don't have a credit card that works internationally.

You register a domain through your hosting company or local registrar. .com isn't even on the list of choices. Naturally, you're getting the .ru What else? There's Russia, and you are in Russia. You are not even aware that people buy and sell domains. Later you read about those cybersquatters that scam people.

Later you hear about .ком, and register a few names, because they are in Cyrillic. A few months later you read on a forum that these are RegTime names that don't resolve without a special plugin. You find it hard to believe. You're annoyed. You don't renew these a year later.

Now it is 2010, .РФ is on the news. You've always known Cyrillic is what your customers use, afterall, you still have a hard time making out those weird English letter combinations when you have to read them. You rush out to get your names in .РФ

[555]

it seems that .ru "won" the gold medal in Russia because he was pretty much the only tld attending the olympics :)

[blastfromthepast]

Thanks for posting these. Historical resale prices seem awfully low for .ru. I am waiting for the news to break that states the .rf auction prices are being artificially inflated.

I doubt it. In Russia, everyone has at least a Mercedes, and big guys have Bentlys. The media promotion got these average people interested, and they aren't going to let the names they want go for cheap, just like they don't let Moscow real estate go for cheap.

[555]

75% or higher closing rate imo. Remember it's not anyone goes to www.nic.ru and starts clicking. They had to fill out very long applications and send copies of documents (passport, ID etc).

If i am not mistaken the current price for a Coke in Moscow Ritz Carlton is appx $30 but if you want, they have some old champagne and good wine list:

http://www.hotelchatter.com/story/2008/9/5/74441/35667/hotels/Not_So_Shocking_News_The_Ritz_Carlton_Moscow_Has_an_Expensive_Wine_List

You can seat here and think about idn values: http://www.ritzcarlton.com/en/Properties/Moscow/Dining/O2Lounge/Menu.htm (Click photo tour)

Sure, the vast majority of Russians only dream about having enough $ for these places, but theres only one .ком , only one .рф etc...do the math, it's sick numbers.

[chrisofmel]

I doubt it. In Russia, everyone has at least a Mercedes, and big guys have Bentlys. The media promotion got these average people interested, and they aren't going to let the names they want go for cheap, just like they don't let Moscow real estate go for cheap.

i think you will see most names with successful payments and transfer, but like any auction there will be some that don't, especially with bidders not having to pre qualify. you have 28,000, so for sure there will be some fallout. these names were never owned so that really helps the auction from preventing shill bidding. sure the registry has a lot to gain by manipulation, but they have so much more to lose. it was a successful launch that threw a lot of cash their way. and with 28,000 auction's even at reasonable price's they stand to make so much more.

[blastfromthepast]

Right. And those names that don't make it, will go to the open bidding system, where because of the hype, even more people will participate. A win for all.

[bumblebee man]

Right. And those names that don't make it, will go to the open bidding system, where because of the hype, even more people will participate. A win for all.

I'd expect the open auction results to far exeed those for the closed ones. There's quite a few Russians who literaly don't know how to spend all their money. Most of them probably haven't even thought about buying a domain name before the .rf run made it to the news. And the prestige of having the most expensive one makes it even better.

[sarcle]

Later you hear about .ком, and register a few names, because they are in Cyrillic. A few months later you read on a forum that these are RegTime names that don't resolve without a special plugin. You find it hard to believe. You're annoyed. You don't renew these a year later.


Meanwhile, these are still being sold at places like webnames.ru and such. I wonder how many more people are being duped into buying these with this new rush for Cyrillic domains?

[DktoInc]

nice, only 12 people truly believe in the power of .com

[o.c.]

I'd expect the open auction results to far exeed those for the closed ones.

Folks, I wouldn't know how it will play out in reality but as of today and officially, there won't be an open auction. Here is the nic.ru e-mail explaining this:

"The Auction Winner shall effect payment for purchasing the domain name within 10 (ten) calendar days from the moment of sending him/her notification that he/she is the Auction Winner. If the Auction Winner fails to fulfil payment obligations, the domain name purchase right will be transferred to the Buyer who offered the Second Bid.

If no bids at all were placed by the auction closing moment, Domain Owner's rights will be transferred to the Buyer who was the first in bid placement. In this case the Deposit will be withdrawn from the Client's personal account as a service fee".\

I think "buyer who was the first in bid placement" means "the person who sent the first application to nic.ru".

We shall see.

[blastfromthepast]

If no bids at all were placed by the auction closing moment, Domain Owner's rights will be transferred to the Buyer who was the first in bid placement. In this case the Deposit will be withdrawn from the Client's personal account as a service fee".[/I]\

This simply covers cases where the domain went to auction but nobody bothered to bid.

I don't see anything that says there will be no open auction when the second bidder doesn't pay.

[o.c.]

This simply covers cases where the domain went to auction but nobody bothered to bid.

I don't see anything that says there will be no open auction when the second bidder doesn't pay.

You may be right. I had assumed it was going to go from highest to second to third etc.

[chrisofmel]

Folks, I wouldn't know how it will play out in reality but as of today and officially, there won't be an open auction. Here is the nic.ru e-mail explaining this:

"The Auction Winner shall effect payment for purchasing the domain name within 10 (ten) calendar days from the moment of sending him/her notification that he/she is the Auction Winner. If the Auction Winner fails to fulfil payment obligations, the domain name purchase right will be transferred to the Buyer who offered the Second Bid.

If no bids at all were placed by the auction closing moment, Domain Owner's rights will be transferred to the Buyer who was the first in bid placement. In this case the Deposit will be withdrawn from the Client's personal account as a service fee".\

I think "buyer who was the first in bid placement" means "the person who sent the first application to nic.ru".

We shall see.

thats the way real auctions have worked for the last 100 plus years, it seems to me they understand the value of legitimacy.

[Rubber Duck]

thats the way real auctions have worked for the last 100 plus years, it seems to me they understand the value of legitimacy.

But if the second bid is Schill fron the Auction house then I guess they do get to have an Open Auction.,

[Avtal]

The highest bidder has ten days to pay. Then the second highest bidder has ten days to pay. Then it goes to open auction. That's according to the general director of RU Center, in this interview (http://gazeta.ru/business/2010/11/15/3437908.shtml).

Avtal

[555]

Funny Russian version to stromae's "alors on danse" (alona dast which translates to Alona will give) I will leave what it is she is giving to your imagination. Found the site via domenforum, he is running an 'experiment' with the domain. http://алёна-даст.рф

[blastfromthepast]

Unless he is the rights holder, his experiment is against all copyright laws.