IDNs hot or not

[Ben]

There was an IDN poll over at NamePros and I was surprised at the results. Less than 50% voted "hot", and even experienced domainers such as the forum owner, RJ, voted "not".

http://img106.imageshack.us/img106/3269/idns8zj.png

How can they not see the potential of IDNs? There's already been plenty of sales listed on DNJ.

[Rubber Duck]

50% would be a good result. Lets face it if half the speculators around were buying IDN then we would all be retired already. At 80%, you would be starting to ask if the market were overheating.

[domainguru]

Their loss is your gain. Do you really want all the guys with deep pockets and scripts hoovering up all the names?

[touchring]

At the moment, there is more money to be made in acsii .com.

Those of us who wow at making a few thousands or even tens of thousands on IDNs over the past 6 mths, big time dot com traders and drop catchers can make that money in a few days.

[seamo]

Let 'em remain ignorant.

These guys have missed out on the best IDN's on offer anyway.

They are fighting over ascii scraps...and they wiil be fighting over IDN scraps too...

[Rubber Duck]

Let 'em remain ignorant.

These guys have missed out on the best IDN's on offer anyway.

They are fighting over ascii scraps...and they wiil be fighting over IDN scraps too...

Yes, it won't be long before they are stinging together incoherent combinations of obscure Chinese symbols and trying to convince themselves they are worth a fortune! Lets face it they have already developed such skills on ASCII and all they need to is transfer them across. We are just about to witness the invasion of the Hanzi Typo brigrade, I think.

[Olney]

I would say that it's really even less than 50% because most of the people voting they are hot are members from here.

Also a forum's owner doesn't have to reflect the forum.

I believe that it's easier for younger people, especially those that are around a lot of ethnicities to see the point.

[seamo]

It just astounds me that people who think they are so 'tech-savvy' as to invest in domain names, are so willingly ignorant of their future.

I mean, how many domainers do we know? Less than 0.001% of the population can even understand what we are talking about. We are members of a very small global population.

Yet these guys are well-versed in domaining, and still refuse to face the facts -

東京.net - $10,000 to The Duck

髪.com - $6,000 to Olney

新聞定期購読.com - ? to sarcle

Ascii elitists - $0 ;)

[domainguru]

I would say that it's really even less than 50% because most of the people voting they are hot are members from here.

Also a forum's owner doesn't have to reflect the forum.

I believe that it's easier for younger people, especially those that are around a lot of ethnicities to see the point.

I have been wondering that myself recently. What is it that makes some domainers "get it", and others not. The two obvious categories are:

1) People whose native language isn't English.
2) English-speaking people that live in Asian countries.

These people will understand easily that folks around the world do not use the web in English language, just the domain name part of it.

Are there any other categories of people that "get" IDNs apart from the two above? What about "Rubber Duck" - what's his excuse? :)

Might be good for a poll?

[Rubber Duck]

I have been wondering that myself recently. What is it that makes some domainers "get it", and others not. The two obvious categories are:

1) People whose native language isn't English.
2) English-speaking people that live in Asian countries.

These people will understand easily that folks around the world do not use the web in English language, just the domain name part of it.

Are there any other categories of people that "get" IDNs apart from the two above? What about "Rubber Duck" - what's his excuse? :)

Might be good for a poll?

You forgot the third category, which is those that have worked for Asian owned companies.

The point is that most Westerners will never get this. It wasn't ever intended for them in the first place. Even when Rick Schwartz is being brushed aside by those wishing to press the flesh of the successful IDNers, most ASCII domainers will still look upon this as Smoke and Mirrors. Most of them could not pass a test in Basic IDNing if their very existence depended up it. John 12:1-8

[jenni]

I would say that it's really even less than 50% because most of the people voting they are hot are members from here.

Also a forum's owner doesn't have to reflect the forum.

I believe that it's easier for younger people, especially those that are around a lot of ethnicities to see the point.
I agree, probally under 40% as I know thefabfive, you(Olney), and I all voted. Others from here probally did too.

Right now I have had more luck with ascii domains then idns but I'm hoping that will change soon.

[domainguru]

I agree, probally under 40% as I know thefabfive, you(Olney), and I all voted. Others from here probally did too.

Right now I have had more luck with ascii domains then idns but I'm hoping that will change soon.

As long as you are acquiring good IDNs, that is all that is important at this stage. Decent income will arrive once ordinary web users can actually access IDNs en masse.

[idnowner]

Some domainers don't get it, because

a) They did not find out about IDNs in time to get some of the best names.

b) They may have heard about the IDN "PLUG-IN" and think of IDNs something like New.net domain names.

c) They don't want to think or admit that one of the last really huge opportunities may have just passed them by. Perhaps .mobi will be their salvation.

d) They could not imagine the demand for non-English character domains.

e) They were waiting for the full (IDN.IDN) domains, because IDNs with English ".com" doesn't make sense

[Olney]

In that report by dnJournal you know it did state that DCG said that dot coms are only getting LONGER & LONGER & LONGER

IDN is the new universe.

I'd rather have a stock of domains I'm sure I can broker off than trying to just get lucky...

[idnowner]

IDN.mobi? What does the future hold?

And what is the .IDN (extension) version of .mobi?

Will that ever be?

[thegenius1]

Some people dont get it because they overcomplicate things , I have said before and will lay it out again ... This is basic a Math problem 1+1= 2 .... High % of NoN-Enlgish Speakers + Internet = IDN ... This is just plain common sense im glad my parents blessed me with that , Some people should look up the Term Deregulation if they want to get technical , Deregulation is the greatest redistribution of wealth the world has ever seen on the Telecom & Utilities side, Do they actually think the Derugalation of domains is not huge ROTFLAO :D

[thefabfive]

Someone should put an IDN traffic name for sale at Namepros. Preferrably one with unusually good traffic at the moment. Include all the traffic stats and revenue and see if that gets their attention.

Wish I had one of those...

[gammascalper]

Those are very valid reasons idnowner. It may be second-nature for us at IDNF to register all kinds of names in all kinds of languages, but it's obvious that many have trepidation doing the same.

I'm glad that the results are skewed out-of-favor, especially considering many of you here seem to have voted.

If it seemed that every domainer was bullish on IDN, it would be cause to look very carefully at the fundamental reasons for the bullishness, as it takes both buyers and sellers to make a true market.

Would you buy a stock if everyone you know had invested in it?

[vgemito]

Gammascalper's post touches on a point that should not be overlooked: that the domain market shares characteristics with every other market.

As with stocks, many look expectantly for rationality. My experience, however, is that markets are rational only if you average them over the long period . In the short and medium term they tend to be irrational and emotionally swayed.

On the whole, Americans are less comfortable than most with having to deal with multiple languages. It is simply is not built into the culture. So it is not surprising to me to see the reluctance of the ASCII community to understand or value IDNs. In fact this aversion has dominated for 5 or 6 years - the whole time IDNs have been available. And, this aversion is not going to disappear on its own. It will require some catalyst.

I don't think anyone can accurately predict what that catylist, or combination of them, will be at present, but it is a question that should remain foremost in mind on the chance that we might be able to enable and speed its (their) path.

As for poll numbers, don't worry. Once the IDN case is demonstrated and momentum gathers, the mass of ASCII investors will be converted quickly enough. Markets are herd creatures.

[Rubber Duck]

Gammascalper's post touches on a point that should not be overlooked: that the domain market shares characteristics with every other market.

As with stocks, many look expectantly for rationality. My experience, however, is that markets are rational only if you average them over the long period . In the short and medium term they tend to be irrational and emotionally swayed.

On the whole, Americans are less comfortable than most with having to deal with multiple languages. It is simply is not built into the culture. So it is not surprising to me to see the reluctance of the ASCII community to understand or value IDNs. In fact this aversion has dominated for 5 or 6 years - the whole time IDNs have been available. And, this aversion is not going to disappear on its own. It will require some catalyst.

I don't think anyone can accurately predict what that catylist, or combination of them, will be at present, but it is a question that should remain foremost in mind on the chance that we might be able to enable and speed its (their) path.

As for poll numbers, don't worry. Once the IDN case is demonstrated and momentum gathers, the mass of ASCII investors will be converted quickly enough. Markets are herd creatures.


Yes, you are quite correct in your assertions. There is pent up demand due to ignorance and often arrogance. The catalyst that will break the dam will be the promise of substantial revenues. The American Domainer will always discount the earnings in his head due to perceived greater risk or greater management costs, but at the end of the day he will have to accept that on an equal basis he cannot realistically discount these domains by much more than 50%, without giving up a substantial opportunity. The primary determinant of value will be traffic revenues which in many cases will approach or even exceed those of ASCII.

By contrast Chinese and Japanese buyers and others will be much more comfortable with these domains that the ASCII. Even now it gets difficult to get the Chinese to systematically state the Punycode which they regard as substantially irrelevant. I think you will find that long-term investors from the Far East will in many cases prove to have much deeper pockets that the short-term arbiteurs that are found on Wall Street. Obviously, in the short-term liquidity in the IDN market would be greatly increased by the entry of the ASCII crowd, and that would also expedite development of PPC services, but their participation is by no means essential.

[touchring]

By contrast Chinese and Japanese buyers and others will be much more comfortable with these domains that the ASCII. Even now it gets difficult to get the Chinese to systematically state the Punycode which they regard as substantially irrelevant.


That's not necessarily true, up till now, most Chinese domainers still prefer ascii pinyin to idns. Check out the chinese domain forums, and you'll know. Ever wondered why most Chinese idns are sold here?

For me, i'm looking at the long term, 5-8 years, which i assume it'll work out somehow.

[gammascalper]

Nice post vgemito.

Mass market psychology is indeed at work here.

I'm an ASCII have-not and was introduced to the cashflow aspect of domain names last year.

To try to understand the game, I read through thousands of posts in a load of forums and archives over the last year to try to glean information from domain name history.

I found that Rick Schwartz was truly a pioneer. He was investing in domain names when the prevailing attitude was much like the attitude we face now with IDN. The difference is that he had no such history to guide him as we do.

Of course there were many other pioneers who favored and still favor discretion, but Rick's brashness and over-the-top demeanor were instrumental in accelerating acceptance of the business to create the initial secondary market.

Now a decade or so later, domain names are being valued by present value of their cash flow as measured against the risk-free rate. They've become a bona fide asset class -- Amazing stuff.

Lots of parallels on so many levels...

PPC and traffic are just starting to pick up, but not quite enough to get the ASCII crowd to notice -- this is a GOOD thing. We at IDNF understand the current multiplier, but noone else needs to.

Forget about the lemmings and USE this time to keep mining as the next phase of IDN will come very quickly.

[Drewbert]

Craig touched on an importantpoint too.

This is a generational thing. The current non-English users are USED to having to use unaccented ASCII domains.

The next generation, who will walk into IE7 right from nappies, will be an entirely different kettle of fish.

[sarcle]

-RJ-

Awesome, yet confirms again why I could care less if namepros gets an idn section. Way to see the market RJ. Nothing but House pets posing as pros.

Idn will happen regardless of the way a few "patriots" see it. It already is, my revenue on parked IDN domains has nearly tripled this month.

But your right. First it was the plug-in that scared investors, once that was solved it was the phishing aspect, now it's the idn.idn aspect. And once that get's solved with dname this summer it will be China's political influence that scares them... Oh wait, that already does.

A visionary can see past all this and see them working and the masses using them regularly just as they did with the original .com's. There was no traffic, there was no ppc, and they were giving them away. It took a few people to see past that and say "there is real potential in these". History repeats itself once again and another perfect example of why we have classes. Many people will make millions while others will be left scraping pieces together riding on the backs of the pioneers. Hm... Sounds just like every other industry out there.

[IDN.TV]

I was the one who started this thread in Namepros, I was pretty shocked with results. Their are a lot of ignorant people who do not see the obvious potential. I keep bumping it up once a week with the news on DNJournal about IDNs to make more people aware of the potential of IDNs and IDNforums the place to discuss.

[Giant]

I was the one who started this thread in Namepros, I was pretty shocked with results. Their are a lot of ignorant people who do not see the obvious potential. I keep bumping it up once a week with the news on DNJournal about IDNs to make more people aware of the potential of IDNs and IDNforums the place to discuss.

Just feel happy for yourself because you're already in this game and ready to reap the result of your hard work. 2 things in you that enable you to see the potential of IDNs are 1) the ability to see the future, and 2) the ability of solving problems. Unlike ASCII domains, IDN domaining requires more skills. Lack of such skills and vision, one just wishes IDN would not succeed.

[jose]

ENVY
Definition: A feeling of discontent and resentment aroused by and in conjunction with desire for the possessions or qualities of another.
Synonyms: envy, begrudge, covet
These verbs mean to feel resentful or painful desire for another's advantages or possessions. Envy, the most general, combines discontent, resentment, and desire: "When I peruse the conquered fame of heroes and the victories of mighty generals, I do not envy the generals" Walt Whitman.
Begrudge stresses ill will and reluctance to acknowledge another's right or claim: Why begrudge him his success?
Covet stresses a secret or culpable longing for something to which one has no right: "We hate no people and covet no people's lands" Wendell L. Willkie.

[Olney]

RJ's personal opinons or thoughts about IDN Domains don't count. NP is more than him. I have been asked to do "something" on NP I just have to get the scheduling right.

[jose]

something?

[thegenius1]

RJ's personal opinons or thoughts about IDN Domains don't count. NP is more than him. I have been asked to do "something" on NP I just have to get the scheduling right.

I personally asked him when i first got started months back what his opinions on IDN where and he acted as if he never heard the term, so honestly i think he is not a true domainer just a person that gets off on owning a forum with thousands of people on it , thats cool , but come on , voting not on common sense means .... you figuire it out

[sarcle]

RJ's personal opinons or thoughts about IDN Domains don't count. NP is more than him. I have been asked to do "something" on NP I just have to get the scheduling right.

Yes, an owner's opinions and attitude has everything to do with a forum's direction and growth.

It took DCG to act to get IDN forums placed on Dnforum. It will be the same with Namepros.

A thread or two doesn't cut it. Serious change has to happen and without his stamp of approval it will not.

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, an owner's opinions and attitude has everything to do with a forum's direction and growth.

It took DCG to act to get IDN forums placed on Dnforum. It will be the same with Namepros.

A thread or two doesn't cut it. Serious change has to happen and without his stamp of approval it will not.

Namepros? Isn't that just another pleaseappraisethisbagofshit.com forum?

[dabsi]

Two weeks ago I was attending the 6 th Webmaster Salon in Paris.

I started a discussion with two persons, one was a representative of one of the famoust french registrar and the other one was running the most popular classifieds sites in France.

To check the mood in the country, I started to talk about IDNs; first they did not know the abbreviations; I explained that it became possible now to type names such as www.secrétaire.com; they said NON IMPOSSIBLE TECHNIQUEMENT; we went to a pc which was online, and I typed www.secrétaire.com, they were paralysed; and repeated NON IMPOSSIBLE TECHNIQUEMENT !

After a while I registred that one of the guys face became multicolor; he took his mobile and informed his boss about this 'revolution'

Incroyable mais vrai, that's the reality.

My feeling, people will wake up after IE 7 release.

Regards

DABSI

[thegenius1]

Namepros? Isn't that just another pleaseappraisethisbagofshit.com forum?

Sure is and they all tell each other reg fee , and would go out celebrating if they actually ever sold a name for 30 bucks , I feel like a idiot everytime i enter there chatroom to hear what the " name proers " are talking about

[Rubber Duck]

Two weeks ago I was attending the 6 th Webmaster Salon in Paris.

I started a discussion with two persons, one was a representative of one of the famoust french registrar and the other one was running the most popular classifieds sites in France.

To check the mood in the country, I started to talk about IDNs; first they did not know the abbreviations; I explained that it became possible now to type names such as www.secrétaire.com; they said NON IMPOSSIBLE TECHNIQUEMENT; we went to a pc which was online, and I typed www.secrétaire.com, they were paralysed; and repeated NON IMPOSSIBLE TECHNIQUEMENT !

After a while I registred that one of the guys face became multicolor; he took his mobile and informed his boss about this 'revolution'

Incroyable mais vrai, that's the reality.

My feeling, people will wake up after IE 7 release.

Regards

DABSI

The significant thing is that he actually told someone else. If he goes on to tell 2 or 3 more people and they each do the same, that is in Viral Marketing terms a Chain Reaction. By teatime the whole bloody country would know. It can really happen that quickly if people find it significantly interesting to pass the information on to friends, colleagues and family. In Latin countries this will probably happen. In Japan, I would think it is an absolute racing certainty. For 2-3 months people will talk about little else, and then it will go quiet because just about everyone will have forgotten about ASCII.

[Drewbert]

>they were paralysed; and repeated NON IMPOSSIBLE TECHNIQUEMENT !

Heh heh.

Next time, PLEASE get it on video!

[thegenius1]

>they were paralysed; and repeated NON IMPOSSIBLE TECHNIQUEMENT !

Heh heh.

Next time, PLEASE get it on video!


If it was caught on video i think i would die , I cant stop LMAO reading about it :)
Speaking of dying i think i have aquired enough assets to Draw up a will @ my young age LOL

[Rubber Duck]

If it was caught on video i think i would die , I cant stop LMAO reading about it :)
Speaking of dying i think i have aquired enough assets to Draw up a will @ my young age LOL

You need to do a bit more than that. You need to be able to entrust the management of your portfolio to someone else. That is one of the reasons I have a partner. It wouldn't be much use just leaving it all in trust to my 11 year old son, would it?

[Drewbert]

And a will ain't going to be much help if your profits have all been taxed up the jacksy.

Anyone with a _potential_ substantial future asset value on their hands needs competent tax structure advice NOW.

If you suddenly find yourself with millions of dollars of domains in your personal posession, you might need a case of vaseline handy because your relevant tax authority is going to LOVE YOU LONG TIME.

DO IT NOW, DO IT PROPERLY.

http://sovereignsociety.com/ might be a good first stop.

[blastfromthepast]

After a while I registred that one of the guys face became multicolor; he took his mobile and informed his boss about this 'revolution'



Incredible story! Amazing!

Regards.