12 Transliterations have been applied for in both .com and .net

[555]

Through ICANN's new gTLD application process, which we expect to close in May 2012, Verisign applied for 14 new gTLDs including 12 transliterations of .com and .net. In addition, applicants for approximately 220 new gTLDs selected Verisign to provide back-end registry services.

https://investor.verisign.com/releaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=667865

[IdnHost]

didn't they say the exact same thing a few months back? which transliterations of .nets do you guys think they went for 1st round?


Thanks for the update 555. Much appreciated

[bumblebee man]

Well, they could have gone for >6 dotcoms and <6 dotnets. My guess would be both .com and .net in the six scripts they already mentioned.
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[squirrel]

Interesting guess, hadnt thought of it that way

[IdnHost]

Well, they could have gone for >6 dotcoms and <6 dotnets. My guess would be both .com and .net in the six scripts they already mentioned.
Posted via Mobile Device

Technically, it makes perfect sense only due to the fact that they did mention only 6 languages previously. So half and half would definately work. Didn't look at it that way either. Always thought it be 10 .com transliterations and 2 .net

[blastfromthepast]

What about Swahili?

[IDNCowboy]

Ppl at verisign are dumbasses.. What did they make? 68 million NET in the first quarter 2012? What is it.. 180k a string? :P They could have applied for every language on the planet.

[Drewbert]

Ah well, at least we know they've definitely got the applications in.

We can tick THAT box.

[bumblebee man]

We can tick THAT box.
Next one is digital archery. They need to hit the bull's eye a dozen times.
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[alpha]

Technically, it makes perfect sense only due to the fact that they did mention only 6 languages previously. So half and half would definately work. Didn't look at it that way either. Always thought it be 10 .com transliterations and 2 .net

Its the only outcome that makes sense.

Verisign can come up with a thousand reasons why only certain languages in the 1st round; but what reason could they give as to why they went for a .com and not a .net, that wouldn't be sending a negative message about their other brand aka .net

Half and half for the 6 languages we already know about is what we'll see

And if you're reading this and still have wishful thinking that maybe a 7th language .com might slip in, I think you're going to be disappointed.
The value of .net in the 6 just rose a notch, and everything else just took a dirt-nap.

[Avtal]

Next one is digital archery. They need to hit the bull's eye a dozen times.

Good point.

But even if Verisign hits the bullseye, will ICANN be able to tell?

Avtal

[Kent99]

Those six were:

Japanese, Hangul, Chinese, Cyrillic, Arabic, and Hebrew

[TrafficDomainer]

Its the only outcome that makes sense.

Verisign can come up with a thousand reasons why only certain languages in the 1st round; but what reason could they give as to why they went for a .com and not a .net, that wouldn't be sending a negative message about their other brand aka .net

Half and half for the 6 languages we already know about is what we'll see

And if you're reading this and still have wishful thinking that maybe a 7th language .com might slip in, I think you're going to be disappointed.
The value of .net in the 6 just rose a notch, and everything else just took a dirt-nap.

I still think it is too premature to assume that it will be 6 .coms and 6 .nets in the languages that have already been mentioned. Afterall, Pat specifically mentioned that most of the applications will be translits of .com as per below:

VeriSign plans to apply for about 12 new top level domain names
http://domainnamewire.com/2012/01/26/verisign-plans-to-apply-for-about-12-new-top-level-domain-names

"VeriSign plans to apply for “about 12″ top level domain names this year, Pat Kane, Senior Vice President and General Manager of VeriSign Naming Services, said on VeriSign’s investor conference call this evening. Most of these will be transliterations of .com. In other words, internationalized domain names (IDNs)."

discussed already on this thread I believe but thought it was worthy of its own thread :)
http://www.idnforums.com/forums/30782-verisign-to-report-fourth-quarter-and-2011-financial-results.html

Also, as per Mulligan's stats, idn.com reg stats show Thai ahead of Hebrew (19,169 vs 15,945), so I think Thai still has a chance, and possibly Hindi as well. I recall that during one of these interviews, Pat specifically mentioned something to the effect that the translits they apply for would have to make financial sense. I don't think applying for Hebrew .net idn makes more sense than applying for .com idn in Thai given the current and potential growth stats based on the Thai population of about 70 million with Hebrew being used by about 6 million people or so.

If you look at Google Insight (http://www.google.com/insights/search/?hl=en-US#q=%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%2C%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A1%20%2C%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A0%20%2C%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9D%20%2C%D9%83%D9%88%D9%85%20&cmpt=q) Chinese .com (.公司) is the most popularly used, followed by Japanese (コム), Thai (คอม), Arabic (كوم) and then Russian (ком):

ком 6
คอม 39
コム 61
קום 1
كوم 19

[squirrel]

If you look at Google Insight (http://www.google.com/insights/search/?hl=en-US#q=%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%BC%2C%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%A1%20%2C%E3%82%B3%E3%83%A0%20%2C%D7%A7%D7%95%D7%9D%20%2C%D9%83%D9%88%D9%85%20&cmpt=q) Chinese .com (.公司) is the most popularly used, followed by Japanese (コム), Thai (คอม), Arabic (كوم) and then Russian (ком):

ком 6
คอม 39
コム 61
קום 1
كوم 19

Thai is actually 2nd behind only CN if you only look at data from the past 12 months

[squirrel]

Its the only outcome that makes sense.

Verisign can come up with a thousand reasons why only certain languages in the 1st round; but what reason could they give as to why they went for a .com and not a .net, that wouldn't be sending a negative message about their other brand aka .net

Half and half for the 6 languages we already know about is what we'll see

And if you're reading this and still have wishful thinking that maybe a 7th language .com might slip in, I think you're going to be disappointed.
The value of .net in the 6 just rose a notch, and everything else just took a dirt-nap.

I agree with your reasoning however I would think that if that is the plan, it probably was decided long ago, which doesn't quite fit the Pat Kane's comment of 9-20 .com translits.

Why say 9 .com translits if you end up applying for only 6 ? And if you meant to include .net translits in your count, why would you say 9 - an odd number ?
http://domainnamewire.com/2011/07/07/verisigns-pat-kane-discusses-new-tlds-and-idns/

[alpha]

I agree with your reasoning however I would think that if that is the plan, it probably was decided long ago, which doesn't quite fit the Pat Kane's comment of 9-20 .com translits.

Why say 9 .com translits if you end up applying for only 6 ? And if you meant to include .net translits in your count, why would you say 9 - an odd number ?
http://domainnamewire.com/2011/07/07/verisigns-pat-kane-discusses-new-tlds-and-idns/

We have to assume that the latest info is more accurate, and the latest info was 12, not 9-20

It would be a brave move to apply for a com and not net; that is officially trashing the .net value.

But we're all guessing right

[TrafficDomainer]

We have to assume that the latest info is more accurate, and the latest info was 12, not 9-20

It would be a brave move to apply for a com and not net; that is officially trashing the .net value.

But we're all guessing right

I personally think the value of .net is what the market dictates which for the most part we know that it is nowhere near ".com". As Pat indicated before, the application has to make financial sense. So if you look at the .net regs in Hebrew below, it's only 4,436 domains. Comparatively, I don't think that would make any good financial sense to include Hebrew IDN.net and exclude Thai IDN.com in this round.

So if we look at Verisign's latest info of 12 applications of idn translits and take into consideration his previous statement that Verisign will apply for 9-20 translits of .com, I would think that it would be at the very least 9 languages for .com translits (including Thai and Hindi as #7 and #8) and 3 of .net (possibly Chinese, Japanese and Arabic)


IDN.com and IDN.net Reg Stats:

.com (December 2011 / January 2012 - 838,637)

Latin: 198,104 (23.62%)
Greek: 2,846 (0.34%)
Cyrillic: 30,727 (3.66%)
Hebrew: 15,945 (1.90%)
Arabic / Persian etc: 37,067 (4.42%)
India: 4,763 (0.57%)
Thai: 19,169 (2.28%)
Hirangana / Katakana: 45,326 (5.40%)
Korean: 89,377 (10.66%)
Chinese / Kanji: 388,862 (46.37%)
Misc: 6,453 (0.77%)


.net (December 2011 / January 2012 - 238,173)

Latin: 48,757 (20.47%)
Greek: 698 (0.29%)
Cyrillic: 9,765 (4.10%)
Hebrew: 4,436 (1.86%)
Arabic / Persian etc: 14,211 (5.96%)
India: 1,061 (0.44%)
Thai: 4,300 (1.80%)
Hiragana / Katakana: 17,551 (7.37%)
Korean: 26,651 (11.19%)
Chinese / Kanji: 109,416 (45.94%)
Misc: 1,327 (0.55%)

[Jay]

I tend to agree with those who suggest 9 .coms and 3 .nets, but this is just an educated guess. What I supposed we've learnt here for certain is that they haven't completely trashed the .net brand

[Drewbert]

One thing you have to remember is that as well as running .com and .net, Verisign also run the ROOT, and thus are the ones who have full access to stats showing what IDN gTLD's are "accidentally"being typed in to browsers already. They will know which of their future IDN gTLD's (and everyone else's) already have a market. :)

[clipper]

One thing you have to remember is that as well as running .com and .net, Verisign also run the ROOT, and thus are the ones who have full access to stats showing what IDN gTLD's are "accidentally"being typed in to browsers already. They will know which of their future IDN gTLD's (and everyone else's) already have a market. :)

There is also the possibility, albeit remote, that the folks at VRSN are taking the long view on IDNs and not looking to cash in on immediate upsurges in registering.

Long-term thinking would require not only respecting the .net enough to establish it in every language (it is an asset, after all), but also rolling out .nets concurrently and testing market response to both TLDs.

[JamesD]

Pardon my ignorance on the subject, but when .idn is introduced, how will they be sold? Will it simply be a landrush as we've seen with other recent extensions, or will there be a grandfathering system? Will owning idn.com give you first option on idn.idn?

[555]

Nice to see you wasn't sure of the outcome of idn.idn and still see the numerous advantages even in the current uncompleted form.

The way it will work is simple, the registrant of the domain пример.com is the only one that can activate the domain пример.ком once .ком is in the root expected 1st qtr of 2013.

You don't have to immediately activate it, no one else can even if you don't and when you do you will have to pay something, assume the worst which i don't think can be more then a regular registration fee.

More official info on this here and if it is not enough there are several other references to that from other registries taking the same approach (Honestly it isn't like they have much choice as ICANN is born to prevent confusion and anything other then the same registrant controlling both url's is major confusion): http://www.idnforums.com/forums/24229-chuck-gomes-verisign-gnso-idng.html

[Rubber Duck]

Pardon my ignorance on the subject, but when .idn is introduced, how will they be sold? Will it simply be a landrush as we've seen with other recent extensions, or will there be a grandfathering system? Will owning idn.com give you first option on idn.idn?

This exemplifies why IDN.com are so undervalued.

The level of ignorance regarding the IDN gTLDs is staggering.

Not surprising really, because the domaining community have been worshipping a bunch of old wind bags for over a decade.

[JamesD]

My own late entry into IDN I put down to laziness. I've been making a living with domains for a few years - I pretty much had to challenge myself to learn something about IDN, which forced me to think about them, which lead to my realising the sense behind them.

Anyway, now I'm starting to learn, I'm quite happy for the level of general ignorance to continue...at least until I've built up a portfolio! :-)

[alpha]

My own late entry into IDN I put down to laziness. I've been making a living with domains for a few years - I pretty much had to challenge myself to learn something about IDN, which forced me to think about them, which lead to my realising the sense behind them.

Anyway, now I'm starting to learn, I'm quite happy for the level of general ignorance to continue...at least until I've built up a portfolio! :-)

this pretty much sums it up: http://idnblog.com/2009/12/03/exclusive-qa-chuck-gomes-verisign/

the only unanswered question is over cost, i.e. how will verisign charge for it. We don't know, except you can bet it won't be free.

[JamesD]

Nice to see you wasn't sure of the outcome of idn.idn and still see the numerous advantages even in the current uncompleted form.

The way it will work is simple, the registrant of the domain пример.com is the only one that can activate the domain пример.ком once .ком is in the root expected 1st qtr of 2013.

You don't have to immediately activate it, no one else can even if you don't and when you do you will have to pay something, assume the worst which i don't think can be more then a regular registration fee.

More official info on this here and if it is not enough there are several other references to that from other registries taking the same approach (Honestly it isn't like they have much choice as ICANN is born to prevent confusion and anything other then the same registrant controlling both url's is major confusion): http://www.idnforums.com/forums/24229-chuck-gomes-verisign-gnso-idng.html

Great info, thanks.

Ditto to Alpha.

[Avtal]

JamesD,

As with any investment, there is some fine print you should be aware of. In this case, the fine print is in the New gTLD Applicant Guidebook (http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb). In particular:

See base-agreement-specs-11jan12-en.pdf (http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb/base-agreement-specs-11jan12-en.pdf), Specification 5, for information on how certain country names are reserved at the second level under the new gTLDs.

And see trademark-clearinghouse-11jan12-en.pdf (http://newgtlds.icann.org/en/applicants/agb/trademark-clearinghouse-11jan12-en.pdf), Section 6, for information on rights-protection mechanisms for trademark holders, including a mandatory trademark sunrise period.

Verisign has not yet indicated how these requirements will affect their commitment to holders of IDN .com domains. So there is some risk. Personally, I've continued to invest money in IDN .com domains. But investors should go into this with their eyes open.

Avtal

[JamesD]

Appreciated Avtal, thanks...bit of light reading for a Saturday night!

[555]

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/29008-new-draft-of-the-applicant-guidebook-for-new-gtlds-is-available-for-public-comment.html

[Avtal]

http://www.idnforums.com/forums/29008-new-draft-of-the-applicant-guidebook-for-new-gtlds-is-available-for-public-comment.html

Thanks 555 for tracking that down! It contains a lot of useful discussions. There's 2 (or 3 or 5) sides to every story.

Avtal

[JamesD]

Ok. So if the owner of idn.com takes up their idn.idn, and at some point lets the idn.com drop whilst they still have registration time remaining on the idn.idn...how's that going to work?

[Avtal]

Ok. So if the owner of idn.com takes up their idn.idn, and at some point lets the idn.com drop whilst they still have registration time remaining on the idn.idn...how's that going to work?

Presumably Verisign would block the idn.com, so that only the owner of the idn.idn could register (or re-register) it. The goal being to minimize user confusion.

Avtal

[JamesD]

Presumably Verisign would block the idn.com, so that only the owner of the idn.idn could register (or re-register) it. The goal being to minimize user confusion.

Avtal

Would make sense.

[TrafficDomainer]

There is also the possibility, albeit remote, that the folks at VRSN are taking the long view on IDNs and not looking to cash in on immediate upsurges in registering.

If Verisign is really interested in taking the long term view from the get go (and not looking to cash in on immediate upsurges), they would have gone for the originally planned 9-20 .com IDN applications. It appears that they are adopting the nickle and dime approach by applying for the combined 12 .com and .net gTLDS in the first round instead.


Long-term thinking would require not only respecting the .net enough to establish it in every language (it is an asset, after all), but also rolling out .nets concurrently and testing market response to both TLDs.

I think the indication from the current ASCII IDN.com vs .net regs in various languages that has been around for the past 11 years should already be a pretty good test for market response for both the strings for what is to come. It would be very short sighted of Verisign to include Hebrew.net (with just about 4,000+ regs) and exclude Thai IDN.com with almost 20,000 regs with about 70 million Thai speakers vs 6 million Hebrew speakers (with about 16,000 Hebrew IDN.com regs).

And if Verisign really wants to do this for the long term, they would also not ignore the almost 400-500 million Hindi speakers and include Hindi IDN.com as well in their application. I believe long term thinking would in fact require them to respect the more spoken languages like Thai and Hindi by applying for idn.com in these languages in this round.

[555]

Another factor verisign likely took into consideration and which possibly further shows we will likely see more or only .com transliterations in the 12 requested (That is if verisign will charge and will need to pay ICANN the same for the activations of the transliterations).

"Compare this to the .net contract with VeriSign. It has a set 75 cents per domain fee. So VeriSign is paying five times as much per .net domain than it is .com domain. (And yet .com domains cost more.)"

http://domainnamewire.com/2012/05/02/heres-how-much-each-tld-generates-for-icann/

[Rubber Duck]

Another factor verisign likely took into consideration and which possibly further shows we will likely see more or only .com transliterations in the 12 requested (That is if verisign will charge and will need to pay ICANN the same for the activations of the transliterations).

"Compare this to the .net contract with VeriSign. It has a set 75 cents per domain fee. So VeriSign is paying five times as much per .net domain than it is .com domain. (And yet .com domains cost more.)"

http://domainnamewire.com/2012/05/02/heres-how-much-each-tld-generates-for-icann/

To be honest, I would guess that Verisign's contraints are more logistical than financial.

It is going to be at full stretch providing support for a several hundred dot Brands.

[Drewbert]

Considering the examples of already operating corporate IDN names here - http://www.verisigninc.com/en_US/products-and-services/domain-name-services/registry-services/idn-domain-names/index.xhtml?loc=en_US - I would be surprised (and disappointed) if Korean .com wasn't in the first batch.

[tee1]

Considering the examples of already operating corporate IDN names here - http://www.verisigninc.com/en_US/products-and-services/domain-name-services/registry-services/idn-domain-names/index.xhtml?loc=en_US - I would be surprised (and disappointed) if Korean .com wasn't in the first batch.

:no: have to disagree that would make wayyyyy to much sense. I mean just because they LIST examples on their own website of companies using Korean IDNs in a highly tech savvy/wealthy country....come on no way they go for Korean in the first round :lol:

[tee1]

the top 2 are iframing their ascii site, hmmm wouldn't that be the easiest way for a company to start using IDNs without pissing away their ascii site's value seo/brand ect? iframe is supported by html5 as well.

스타벅스코리아.com iframe
명동칼국수.net iframed

<FRAMESET ROWS="100%,*" border=0>
<FRAME src=http://www.istarbucks.co.kr/></FRAMESET>

제부도.com for sale hmmm

[555]

I would be surprised (and disappointed) if Korean .com wasn't in the first batch.Pat Kane confirmed we can expect Hangul .com transliteration last year.

"you can expect .com equivalents in Japanese, Hangul, Chinese, Cyrillic, Arabic, and Hebrew."

http://domainnamewire.com/2011/07/07/verisigns-pat-kane-discusses-new-tlds-and-idns/