IDN.IDN - HEBREW.HEBREW -A good investment?

[japower]

Hey,

I am new here. Have read many posts over the last few days and decided to register yesterday.

I got involved in buying a lot of domains in Hebrew. Most of them are generic words. One of them is probably the second most valuable domain that anyone could have bought...(is this OK to say it here?...).

As most of you probably know, the domains in Hebrew ending with co.il / org.il will eventually become a full Hebrew domains (as you call it IDN.IDN). In Hebrew, writing is from right to left, so it'll actually be NDI.NDI. - הדומיין.ישראל

It was said by people (from Israel) that especially for this reason, being unique from right to left, and since Hebrew doesn't use any latin letters (it's all original ;) ), those IDN's will become very valuable over time. Does anyone else thinks the same here?

There are about 10-13 Milion Hebrew speakers around the world. It's not a big market, but since Israel's economy is strong, the competition can boost does domains value up.
For example: A company/restaurant would like to own a domain with the generic word "Fish", - דגים, and they also want to have either the co.il or the org.il because the "i.l" will be written as (Israel) but in Hebrew, they will only have 2 options. So there are maybe only 7 Million users there, but if a company that runs Millions of dollars, will want to win this domain, they will pay for it.
can anyone agree with my assumptions here? :yes:

Eran

[Rubber Duck]

Well, yes and no.

There is definitely potential, but it is a piss in the buck up against Arabic and Chinese.

Also not convinced that ccTLD will dominate. I get a hell of lot of ArabicIDN.com traffic out of Israel.

[555]

One of them is probably the second most valuable domain that anyone could have bought...(is this OK to say it here?...).
Sure, which one is it?

Do you know .com will get קום like co.il will get ישראל (Or any other choice isoc will choose to go with).

איפה שמעת על דומיינים בעברית? ברוך הבא לפורום.

[555]

Well, yes and no.

There is definitely potential, but it is a piss in the buck up against Arabic and Chinese.

Also not convinced that ccTLD will dominate. I get a hell of lot of ArabicIDN.com traffic out of Israel.

Israel's small population size is misleading to someone who isn't familiar with the country, like other countries have they're specifics but overall as RD explains, it will never be China or have the amount of speakers like the Arabic language but it may show much more strength then what may appear judging by dry statistics.

If a mortgage bank in Israel wants the best name for Mortgage they will likely contact Mr. Snow for משכנתא.com and they will have to pay whatever the seller agrees to accept. They don't need the Chinese equivalent of Mortgage.com which will likely insure even a small market like Israel will report many sales not lesser then what other much bigger markets will.

Based on what i saw the vast majority of IDN's in google's first 3 pages are .com (Compared over 500 IDN's in google.co.il).

[japower]

Based on what i saw the vast majority of IDN's in google's first 3 pages are .com (Compared over 500 IDN's in google.co.il).

The .COM IDN's started almost 10 years ago. The CO.IL / ORG.IL ones started last year. All those who bough the domains in the beginning of 2011, did not renew them on 2012, many generics words were there. People with IL IDN's didn't eve indexed them in google yet...it's all just to early, not talking about 90% of the population that can also speak a pretty much good English. I guess that this is the reason why it's not out there, it's still fresh.
Regarding COM becoming קום. COM (in Hebrew) has no meaning and definately no advantage over IL which means (Israel). so (fish).(Israel) should be better than (fish)(com): דגים.ישראל - דגים.קום.


Sure, which one is it?


I still don't feel so comfortable here to tell this one...If I put a domain on auction, can I sent a reserve price that will be know to me only? Or do I need to tell everyone what is my reserve? Otherwise how can it be a real auction...?

[IdnHost]

Regarding COM becoming קום. COM (in Hebrew) has no meaning

Thats a strong statement. How do you figure?

[japower]

Thats a strong statement. How do you figure?

I am a native Hebrew speaker. COM means nothing...it even looks a bit stupid when written in Hebrew...

[IdnHost]

so let me get this straight, .com means nothing because it looks a bit stupid when written in Hebrew? Im just trying to understand your logic, thats all.

cheers.

[gammascalper]

I am a native Hebrew speaker. COM means nothing...it even looks a bit stupid when written in Hebrew...

.com itself doesn't mean anything. It may have stood for something once.

Also, コム in japanese also doesn't mean anything, but I can assure you it will be much more popular than .日本. And I'm saying this even though my idn.cctld are a lot better than my idn.gtld.

[bumblebee man]

If I put a domain on auction, can I sent a reserve price that will be know to me only? Or do I need to tell everyone what is my reserve? Otherwise how can it be a real auction...?
Reserve must be public of course. Just auction it without reserve and let the market decide.
Posted via Mobile Device

[bwhhisc]

Reserve must be public of course. Just auction it without reserve and let the market decide.
Posted via Mobile Device

Or just put your starting price at a point you are comfortable with and see if you get any bids.

If you have Hebrew domains with type in traffic, those would have the most interest. ;)

[IDNCowboy]

Well, yes and no.

There is definitely potential, but it is a piss in the buck up against Arabic and Chinese.

Also not convinced that ccTLD will dominate. I get a hell of lot of ArabicIDN.com traffic out of Israel.

I wouldn't count your marbles yet.... Israel is pretty strong and someone may pay a handsome sum for a name..

Very strong companies have been born in Israel such as ICQ (well back then ) etc.

[blackpower]

I think idns' valuation will be based on the same criteria as Latin domains. If you want to know the value of hebrew names, look for how much a hebrew-latin translit domain was sold plus a premium for being a native language.. But then you need to take into consideration local extentions the .com will compete against and willingness of US investors to go into that particular market

[Rubber Duck]

I wouldn't count your marbles yet.... Israel is pretty strong and someone may pay a handsome sum for a name..

Very strong companies have been born in Israel such as ICQ (well back then ) etc.

So now growing Oranges is suddenly more economically significant than being the largest Oil Exporters?

Perhaps somebody should tell the CIA who have them 40th in global rankings. That is 6 places below Greece.

[japower]

.com itself doesn't mean anything. It may have stood for something once.

Also, コム in japanese also doesn't mean anything, but I can assure you it will be much more popular than .日本. And I'm saying this even though my idn.cctld are a lot better than my idn.gtld.

Let me explain why idn.cctld is better(Speaking on Israel now). The reason is that it's a trademark. If you are aiming for the local market it is a huge advantage over idn.gtld because it's unique, .COM you can find anywhere. And why is it different in Arabic? Because there are many countries that speak that language, so .COM will be preferred in this case instead of the .(country name).

When the market is small, it has it's own advantages, one of them is that for the Israeli population, the cctld (Israel) is a trademark.

Regarding the premium name...I will tell you all later.

Just one more question about the auctions. (and I am not about to list this one there of course..), if an auction ends and I am not happy with the outcome, do I have to make the sale? Who is forcing sellers to actually sell the domain for the highest bidder?

[blackpower]

Who is forcing sellers to actually sell the domain for the highest bidder?
:eek: Indeed? I have never though of it this way!

[japower]

:eek: Indeed? I have never though of it this way!

No, I am seriously...can someone explain how it works? I put it for auction, last offered price is lets say 100$. I think it worth 400$, I didn't put any reserve, what do I do now? Can I back off the deal? I want to compile with the rules, but even after reading those, I am not sure about the answer yet...

[bumblebee man]

No, I am seriously...can someone explain how it works? I put it for auction, last offered price is lets say 100$. I think it worth 400$, I didn't put any reserve, what do I do now? Can I back off the deal? I want to compile with the rules, but even after reading those, I am not sure about the answer yet...

That is exactly what a reserve price is meant for. If you didn't set a reserve price before that's your problem. What you are talking about is called defrauding buyers. You won't make any friends here with that approach.

[japower]

That is exactly what a reserve price is meant for. If you didn't set a reserve price before that's your problem. What you are talking about is called defrauding buyers. You won't make any friends here with that approach.

Of course I don't intend to do that, this is the reason why I asked about the rules. It's just that setting a reserve which is visible is a bit strange to my opinion...because if there is a reserve, why start from a low price? What's the point? You will start with lets say 100$, in 10-50$ jumps, my reserve for example is 1500$. Why would someone put the first 1004? Why would the next guy put 150$? The reserve is set for 1500$. (Am I missing something here?...)

Selling on eBay I can tell you all that a reserve is hidden for buyers, and that's the whole fun part of the game.

I will appreciate if someone can help me here, I do intend to put some good domains for sale, not my premium ones of course, but those who can easily be sold for the prices mentioned above. :confused:

Thanks guys.

[bumblebee man]

Of course I don't intend to do that, this is the reason why I asked about the rules. It's just that setting a reserve which is visible is a bit strange to my opinion...because if there is a reserve, why start from a low price? What's the point? You will start with lets say 100$, in 10-50$ jumps, my reserve for example is 1500$. Why would someone put the first 1004? Why would the next guy put 150$? The reserve is set for 1500$. (Am I missing something here?...)


Here you go:

Or just put your starting price at a point you are comfortable with and see if you get any bids.


What is the point of bids below reserve anyway?


Selling on eBay I can tell you all that a reserve is hidden for buyers, and that's the whole fun part of the game.


But then at least Ebay knows your reserve. It's not like you decide about it after the auction. Won't work on a forum.


I will appreciate if someone can help me here, I do intend to put some good domains for sale, not my premium ones of course, but those who can easily be sold for the prices mentioned above. :confused:


Just go for it.

[japower]

So the reserve and starting price is actually the same?...

[bumblebee man]

So the reserve and starting price is actually the same?...

Well, you can just make them the same. Since you can set the starting price however you like there's no need for a reserve.

[welkin]

So the reserve and starting price is actually the same?...

in theory setting a reserve price is a bit more tactical, it can create interest in the domain which might induce a bidder to reach the reserve price...and the reserve price can be lowered during the auction. it also gives you some idea of what people are currently willing to pay for a name, which a unanswered high starting bid would not do.

[blastfromthepast]

Let me explain why idn.cctld is better(Speaking on Israel now). The reason is that it's a trademark.

What exactly is trademarked?

[japower]

What exactly is trademarked?

I mean that the word Israel in Hebrew, like Japan in Japanese is a trade mark.

(an Israeli company name).(Israel) is better than ((an Israeli company name).(com) when the targeted market is inside Israel.

[Dimkin]

דגים.ישראל it , maybe, would look good, but if I understand correctly דגים.co.il must be = דגים.עסק.ישראל or somethig like that, and דגים.org.il must be = דגים.ארג.ישראל or somethig like that. No?
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4171357,00.html

[japower]

it , maybe, would look good, but if I understand correctly דגים.co.il must be = דגים.עסק.ישראל or somethig like that, and דגים.org.il must be = דגים.ארג.ישראל or somethig like that. No?
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4171357,00.html

Right, probably a more shorter versions. Nobody really knows yet, but by the end of this year we will probably will. The end ישראל might also be יל. Even that according to my "sources", most of the people voted for ישראל

[555]

Right, probably a more shorter versions. Nobody really knows yet, but by the end of this year we will probably will. The end ישראל might also be יל. Even that according to my "sources", most of the people voted for ישראל
Whatever it will be it won't be קום and nothing likely ever will the way things have been going for the last 25+ years but each certainly is entitled to believe anything they feel like.

co.il is associated with Israel, it is it's official ccTLD but to convince yourself that the history and strength of .com leaves anything else a real chance is a bit optimistic.

Which ever extension that will be chosen, the best case scenario that it seems you like would be ישראל even though it is highly likely it won't be that but as Dimkin mentioned will be in it's current form of e.g דומיין.עסק.ישראל

So which ever extension that will be chosen, it will be a new one, it will not even sound the same compared to what co.il sounds in Latin.

In addition if a domain that is 100% Hebrew characters with a known to all tld isn't obviously and clearly meant to cater no one other then Hebrew speakers which mostly reside in Israel then i am not sure how that new דומיין.ישראל or even 'better' דומיין.עסק.ישראל will ever stand any chance.

Google:

494,000 "דוט קום"
3 "דוט קו יל"
23,500 "נקודה קום"
2,920 "נקודה נט"
63 "נקודה אינפו"
0 "נקודה קו יל"
0 "נקודה קו אל"
43 "נקודה סי או אי אל"
289 "נקודה סי או איי אל"
411* "נקודה ישראל"

*Mostly only by accident (Sentence end. Following word Israel which is another problem out of a few others we can leave for later)

[Dimkin]

probably a more shorter versions.

as for me it does not matter if, before today, honda.com for show that it works in Israel it is necessary to have honda.co.il, tomorrow will be enough הונדה.קום(Available :) ) (language speaks for itself), the more it is much easier to write, pronounce,etc. than even the short version הונדה.קו.יל.

You don't think so?

[japower]

I am not talking about co.il's being worth more in $$ than com. At least no in the next 10 years I guess, but I am just saying that potentially the co.il's one in Hebrew should grow up nicely, and even that Israel is not a huge population, domains with nice generic word will be also worth not small change.
Years will tell I guess...
In the mean time, I promised to tell about my domain I think is the second best one out of the Hebrew IDN.IDN:

(porn).co.il

פורנו.co.il

How many years would you wait with this one? (or should I put a new post just for that..?)

[Rubber Duck]

I am not talking about co.il's being worth more in $$ than com. At least no in the next 10 years I guess, but I am just saying that potentially the co.il's one in Hebrew should grow up nicely, and even that Israel is not a huge population, domains with nice generic word will be also worth not small change.
Years will tell I guess...
In the mean time, I promised to tell about my domain I think is the second best one out of the Hebrew IDN.IDN:

(porn).co.il

פורנו.co.il

How many years would you wait with this one? (or should I put a new post just for that..?)

How much traffic does it have?

[japower]

How much traffic does it have?

This domain is brand new. No traffic yet. Owned it 6 days ago.

[japower]

How much traffic does it have?

This domain is brand new. No traffic yet. Owned it 6 days ago.

[porn].co.il פורנו.co.il

[blackpower]

This domain is brand new. No traffic yet. Owned it 6 days ago.

[porn].co.il פורנו.co.il

Second most valuable in Hebrew? What is first in your opinion?

[japower]

Second most valuable in Hebrew? What is first in your opinion?

sex.co.il

(sorry according to the list, mine is the third). But again, talking in 5-10 years from now of course...

I guess you know that list right?

http://www.domaining.com/topsales/

[IdnHost]

sex.co.il

(sorry according to the list, mine is the third). But again, talking in 5-10 years from now of course...

I guess you know that list right?

http://www.domaining.com/topsales/

hehe, yeah that is an expensive list indeed.

[blastfromthepast]

I mean that the word Israel in Hebrew, like Japan in Japanese is a trade mark.

Japan in Japanese is not a trade mark, it is a generic word. Is this not the case in Israel?

[japower]

Japan in Japanese is not a trade mark, it is a generic word. Is this not the case in Israel?

Maybe i am misusing this word "trademark". My meaning is that the word Israel has a meaning, and com don't. Look above.

[mulligan]

You have a lot to learn ...

I am a native Hebrew speaker. COM means nothing..