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View Full Version : How will Verisign price a gTLD transliteration of .com?


alpha
1st December 2012, 06:31 AM
How will Verisign approach this? Treat it like a "service", like whois privacy.
Treat it like a regular registration, or maybe time to get the Vaseline out for a good old shafting of the non-English registrants.

It will be a delicate balance to pull off: wanting to generate growth vs wanting to make $

place your vote.

Rubber Duck
1st December 2012, 06:39 AM
Should really be a service but no doubt the US Border Control option would be their first choice. They will, however, probably back away from that and try to do it as a new registration.

If we get a good deal, I think we will owe much of the thanks to APTLD.

camarro
1st December 2012, 08:31 AM
Verisign really needs to have a careful approach with the pricing levels on the new IDN TLD'S.

Some of the target countries have a low to very low income per capita (i.g. India) and high pricing the new extensions could ultimately undermine their sucess in the native market.
This could be a case where they can easily kill the golden goose.

Interesting to see how they aproach such different markets like Japan and India, different prices for different languages might be an option they should consider if technically feasible.

alpha
1st December 2012, 09:30 AM
Verisign really needs to have a careful approach with the pricing levels on the new IDN TLD'S.

Some of the target countries have a low to very low income per capita (i.g. India) and high pricing the new extensions could ultimately undermine their sucess in the native market.
This could be a case where they can easily kill the golden goose.

Interesting to see how they aproach such different markets like Japan and India, different prices for different languages might be an option they should consider if technically feasible.

good point. Have added a 5th option to the poll.

Drewbert
1st December 2012, 09:43 AM
Where's the "I have no fucking clue" option?

Ryu
1st December 2012, 10:03 AM
Verisign really needs to have a careful approach with the pricing levels on the new IDN TLD'S.

Some of the target countries have a low to very low income per capita (i.g. India) and high pricing the new extensions could ultimately undermine their sucess in the native market.
This could be a case where they can easily kill the golden goose.

Interesting to see how they aproach such different markets like Japan and India, different prices for different languages might be an option they should consider if technically feasible.

I don't think different economic conditions matter that much. We are talking about people who are at least wealthy enough to pay .com reg fees. There's really not much rational for Verisign to offer special discount price to countries of difficult economic conditions.

And it will kill the market for any languages if Verisign is to ask more than what they do for the ascii version.

555
1st December 2012, 10:20 AM
Identical to the ascii idn imo.

gammascalper
1st December 2012, 11:37 AM
Identical to the ascii idn imo.

Good point. Already been priced.

Rubber Duck
1st December 2012, 12:00 PM
Verisign really needs to have a careful approach with the pricing levels on the new IDN TLD'S.

Some of the target countries have a low to very low income per capita (i.g. India) and high pricing the new extensions could ultimately undermine their sucess in the native market.
This could be a case where they can easily kill the golden goose.

Interesting to see how they aproach such different markets like Japan and India, different prices for different languages might be an option they should consider if technically feasible.

Different prices for different markets is an absolute non-starter. This would bring the ITC and the UN down on the heads of the US Commerce Dept which would put ICANN's Ass in a Sling. It would also spell more interference on pricing issues so Verisign are likely to tread carefully.

Legitimately Verisign cannot charge for Intellectual Property which they have already sold. They are only selling an extended service and this should reasonably only reflect the cost of providing that service.

alexd
1st December 2012, 12:26 PM
As much as I'd like to see it being offered as a service or as a discount - I can't see that happening. I think it will be treated exactly as a new registration !!

Avtal
1st December 2012, 01:36 PM
Verisign's ability to charge high prices for their IDN gTLDs is limited by the competition: IDN ccTLDs. However, there are other tricks they could play. For instance, registrants of IDN.com could be charged a "special activation fee" in order to activate their IDN.com-in-IDN.

I doubt they would do that, though.

Avtal

Rubber Duck
1st December 2012, 05:51 PM
Verisign's ability to charge high prices for their IDN gTLDs is limited by the competition: IDN ccTLDs. However, there are other tricks they could play. For instance, registrants of IDN.com could be charged a "special activation fee" in order to activate their IDN.com-in-IDN.

I doubt they would do that, though.

Avtal

Clearly not!

Verisign's limitation is the whim of the US Commerce Department who don't give a shit as long as it does not give the ITC traction.

TrafficDomainer
1st December 2012, 08:40 PM
I think if they are smart and want to increase their base, they will give them for about a $1 or free/domain for the first year just to gain traction. And then charge the same renewal fee as a nonidn.com for subsequent years.

DktoInc
1st December 2012, 09:16 PM
I think if they are smart and want to increase their base, they will give them for about a $1 or free/domain for the first year just to gain traction. And then charge the same renewal fee as a nonidn.com for subsequent years.

That's a GoDaddy move, except the renewal is doubled the reg fee the following years to come.

sbe18
2nd December 2012, 04:55 AM
Since the ascii and the idn.idn reg. are unlikely to be the same day of renewal, that will be an excuse for $9 equivalence.

mulligan
2nd December 2012, 05:42 AM
Is there a 'sky is falling' icon?

Rubber Duck
2nd December 2012, 06:41 AM
Since the ascii and the idn.idn reg. are unlikely to be the same day of renewal, that will be an excuse for $9 equivalence.

But there is an argument that registeriing multiple domains is only necessary due to the user confusion that Verisign will have created, thus most people not just speculators, will end up having to buy two names when they only really wanted one. But only if you are Johnny Foreigner of course.

Not sure that profiting from deliberately created confusion totally fits the ICANN Ethos, if it has one! Then there is the ethical issue of discrimination, which of course is not an issue provided you come from an English Speaking country, such as India or China.

DktoInc
2nd December 2012, 08:40 AM
But there is an argument that registeriing multiple domains is only necessary due to the user confusion that Verisign will have created, thus most people not just speculators, will end up having to buy two names when they only really wanted one. But only if you are Johnny Foreigner of course.

Not sure that profiting from deliberately created confusion totally fits the ICANN Ethos, if it has one!



so the ideal solution would be whatever gets grandfathered in is free, and new regs are regular price. you can still have both but need to only reg one (idn.idn or idn.com) and the other one is auto-reserved for you.

Drewbert
2nd December 2012, 12:32 PM
Since the ascii and the idn.idn reg. are unlikely to be the same day of renewal, that will be an excuse for $9 equivalence.

I think, for the sake of simplicity, when they offer the .idncom version to the .com owner, they will synchronise expiry dates.

clipper
2nd December 2012, 12:47 PM
Should really be a service but no doubt the US Border Control option would be their first choice. They will, however, probably back away from that and try to do it as a new registration.

If we get a good deal, I think we will owe much of the thanks to APTLD.

I agree 100%, but I don't think the service charge would be any lower for foreign registrants if Nominet UK was in charge, either.

These are, after all, for profit entities so they will have to get the word out somehow.

Rubber Duck
2nd December 2012, 04:12 PM
I agree 100%, but I don't think the service charge would be any lower for foreign registrants if Nominet UK was in charge, either.

These are, after all, for profit entities so they will have to get the word out somehow.

Nominet are really cheap, but the downside is they are shite!

As a ccTLD they are perfectly entitled to discriminate against foreigners.

I know this may be confusing for Americans but technical dot Com is not their ccTLD.

jose
17th July 2013, 01:57 AM
Like a new registration is IDNF's bet. :)

domainguru
17th July 2013, 01:53 PM
Like a new registration is IDNF's bet. :)

It was at the time of the vote. Since then, we've had our 10-yearly press release from VeriSign.

Based on that PR, I am leaning slightly towards "discount compared with .com"

Launch would be the *perfect* time to do a low-price reg promotion, kickstart the whole .com translit thing.

Hey, they lose very little long-term. They will set renewal fees back at $9 without telling anyone :-p

squirrel
17th July 2013, 02:11 PM
I now think the first domain in a set will be regular .com registration fee. Unlocking more versions in a set will be at a discount.

I think that's what we're going to see at a consumer level, whether that's the exact deal VRSN will have with registrars, that's a different story.

Drewbert
17th July 2013, 02:21 PM
Why on earth would you want to unlock more versions? I'll be moving cyrillic.com to cyrillic.kom then dumping cyrillic.com once the traffic disappears. I can't see any reason to fire up cyrillic.thai or cyrillic.hebrew.

Doing so should be banned IMHO. Would cut back on the "IDN's are all about phishing" remarks.

squirrel
17th July 2013, 02:37 PM
Why on earth would you want to unlock more versions?

I can see big brands, like nike.com, unlocking nike.kom etc... why not ?

Another situation is when you have a domain that means something both in Chinese and Japanese.

Another one is autocompletion by some browsers (and also the .com key on some keyboards). Will browsers try to guess which TLD to append, or still slap ascii .com at the end, at which point it's still usefull to keep the .com version.

Also, I can imagine developers wanting mysite.kom and also keep mysite.com perhaps to route MX traffic at the right place .. and generally speaking redirect .com traffic to .kom. You know if you run radio ads, it will be confusing to the consumers ?


I agree that cyrillic.thai makes no sense. It might just be banned actually if we look at the allowed codepoint table for each TLD.

123
17th July 2013, 05:24 PM
do you believe that if one does not activate the idn Version, the right could expire and it could become available for everyone to
register?

while horrible it would make sense from a business perspective. Why not double your income from
IDNs if you own a monopoly?

squirrel
17th July 2013, 05:53 PM
do you believe that if one does not activate the idn Version, the right could expire and it could become available for everyone to
register?

while horrible it would make sense from a business perspective. Why not double your income from
IDNs if you own a monopoly?

The confusion this would create would hurt their business.

coconut
17th July 2013, 09:06 PM
I'll be moving cyrillic.com to cyrillic.kom then dumping cyrillic.com once the traffic disappears.
Drewbert my guess is that there will always be sufficient traffic to retain cyrillic.com and 301 it to cyrillic.kom (if that is allowed).

Drewbert
17th July 2013, 10:58 PM
I can see big brands, like nike.com, unlocking nike.kom etc... why not ?

because [nike-in-cyrillic].com and [nike-in-japanese].com are separate registrations right now.


Another situation is when you have a domain that means something both in Chinese and Japanese.

Normally, I would agree, but since I think Verisign's Chinese IDNgTLD's are a bust...

Another one is autocompletion by some browsers (and also the .com key on some keyboards). Will browsers try to guess which TLD to append, or still slap ascii .com at the end, at which point it's still usefull to keep the .com version.


I would hope that browsers would autocomplete in the same language/script as the user is typing.


Also, I can imagine developers wanting mysite.kom and also keep mysite.com perhaps to route MX traffic at the right place .. and generally speaking redirect .com traffic to .kom. You know if you run radio ads, it will be confusing to the consumers ?


That's the whole idea of IDN's though. No more confusion. If the radio advert is in Russian, it's obviously targeting Russian speakers, and after all us oldies have died off and all the Internet users out there were born after IDN gTLD's became available you would have a hard time convincing them that once upon a time there was only ASCII domain names.

IDN.com traffic will slowly fade to zero due to education, realisation and new Internet users typing things into the URL bar in their own language and having it work rather than 404'ing.

clipper
18th July 2013, 04:01 PM
Why on earth would you want to unlock more versions? I'll be moving cyrillic.com to cyrillic.kom then dumping cyrillic.com once the traffic disappears. I can't see any reason to fire up cyrillic.thai or cyrillic.hebrew.

Doing so should be banned IMHO. Would cut back on the "IDN's are all about phishing" remarks.

What about Characters/terms used in both Japanese and Chinese? Wouldn't it be wise to "unlock" both TLDs?

Drewbert
19th July 2013, 05:09 AM
What about Characters/terms used in both Japanese and Chinese? Wouldn't it be wise to "unlock" both TLDs?

I covered that in the post above.

Rubber Duck
23rd July 2013, 05:00 PM
So what is a PICs statement in reality?

CORE have signed agreements with ICANN.

They also have PICs statements, which sound an awful lot like extra terms and conditions imposed by ICANN

gTLD String: сайт
Applicant Entity Name: CORE Association
Application ID#: 1-862-90073
SPECIFICATION 11
PUBLIC INTEREST COMMITMENTS
1. Registry Operator will use only ICANN accredited registrars that are party to the Registrar
Accreditation Agreement approved by the ICANN Board of Directors on [date to be determined at time of
contracting], 2013(or any subsequent form of Registrar Accreditation Agreement approved by the
ICANN Board of Directors) in registering domain names. A list of such registrars shall be maintained by
ICANN on ICANN’s website.
2. □ Registry Operator will operate the registry for the TLD in compliance with all commitments,
statements of intent and business plans stated in the following sections of Registry Operator’s application
to ICANN for the TLD, which commitments, statements of intent and business plans are hereby
incorporated by reference into this Agreement. Registry Operator’s obligations pursuant to this paragraph
shall be enforceable by ICANN and through the Public Interest Commitment Dispute Resolution Process
established by ICANN ((posted at [url to be inserted when final procedure is adopted]), as it may be
amended by ICANN from time to time, the “PICDRP”). Registry Operator shall comply with the
PICDRP. Registry Operator agrees to implement and adhere to any remedies ICANN imposes (which
may include any reasonable remedy, including for the avoidance of doubt, the termination of the Registry
Agreement pursuant to Section 4.3(e) of the Registry Agreement) following a determination by any
PICDRP panel and to be bound by any such determination.
The above paragraph applies to the following sections in our Application:
• 18.b.iv Registration Rules
• 18.b.v Protection of Privacy
• 18.c Operating Rules to Minimize Social Costs
• 22 Protection of Geographic Names

https://gtldresult.icann.org/application-result/applicationstatus/applicationdetails/1860

Kent99
5th April 2016, 11:21 PM
I guess we know the partial answer to this poll now. The correct answer was like a US border control cavity search. I paid $12.25 at Dynadot. Those with super bulk might have paid a little less. Did anybody pay up to $18,000 for a premium?

squirrel
5th April 2016, 11:50 PM
No.