Looking for a Japanese geographic name

[alpha]

deal done.

thanks guys for your pm's.

[bramiozo]

Please define "big city" .

Thanks

[alpha]

Please define "big city" .

Thanks

a city that is big


prefecture capital cities for example, or cities that have the same name as the prefecture

[grubstaker]

PM sent...

[bwhhisc]

I prefer city terms to NOT have the city suffix of 市


Appreciate if you can let me comment on the city sign on your thread, since it is just good information for all, including newbies in case they have the chance to get one at a good price.

Just for point of info, the 市 sign is very commonly used in Japan and many city terms (and city-realestate combos) get higher ovt with the city sign attached. All in all, learned that it is common to see the use of the city sign throughout Japan.

I agree with Alpha, and for development of a site think the shorter version is probably better. but was surprised to see the frequency of use of the city sign throughout Japan.

I would be interested in any other info from a native speaker, maybe on a new thread. I also note that the Chinese use the city sign, but not nearly as frequent or mainstream.

Now....back to the main event....sending your best Japanese city.coms to Alpha!

[alpha]

Appreciate if you can let me comment on the city sign on your thread, since it is just good information for all, including newbies in case they have the chance to get one at a good price.

Just for point of info, the 市 sign is very commonly used in Japan and many city terms (and city-realestate combos) get higher ovt with the city sign attached. All in all, learned that it is common to see the use of the city sign throughout Japan.

I agree with Alpha, and for development of a site think the shorter version is probably better. ment, but was surprised to see the frequency of use of the city sign throughout Japan.

I would be interested in any other info from a native speaker, maybe on a new thread. I also note that the Chinese use the city sign, but not nearly as frequent or mainstream.

Now....back to the main event....sending your best Japanese city.coms to Alpha!

feel free to keep this discussion regarding 市 going, as I have a vested interest too.

I have no knowledge on this topic other than the whois tells an interesting tale.

where the cities where registered by native Japanese folk, the term without the 市 was taken long long ago. This to me indicates that they are more valuable.

but how much more valuable? I've seen cities with the 市 sell for as little as $55, and cities without are being positioned more in the xx,xxx range.

[touchring]

I think you are right to say that major cities .COM (>1mln pop) with the city sign, few people are going to let them go for less than $10k.

01 Tokyo 23 special wards 8,390,967 23 special wards/The capital of Japan/Prefecture capital
02 Kanagawa Yokohama 3,579,133 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
03 Osaka Osaka 2,640,097 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
04 Aichi Nagoya 2,214,958 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
05 Hokkaido Sapporo 1,882,424 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
06 Hyogo Kobe 1,525,389 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
07 Kyoto Kyoto 1,474,764 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
08 Fukuoka Fukuoka 1,400,621 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
09 Kanagawa Kawasaki 1,317,862 Government Ordinance City
10 Saitama Saitama 1,185,030 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
11 Hiroshima Hiroshima 1,156,215 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital
12 Miyagi Sendai 1,028,214 Government Ordinance City / Prefecture capital

[Rubber Duck]

feel free to keep this discussion regarding 市 going, as I have a vested interest too.

I have no knowledge on this topic other than the whois tells an interesting tale.

where the cities where registered by native Japanese folk, the term without the 市 was taken long long ago. This to me indicates that they are more valuable.

but how much more valuable? I've seen cities with the 市 sell for as little as $55, and cities without are being positioned more in the xx,xxx range.

Without are definitely more valuable in my opinion especially when when the name covers both city and prefecture.

[thegenius1]

Another thing i noticed that i forgot to mention is that certain areas seem to prefer it just withought it , Bill is correct when he see's alot of the ovt. with Shi but some areas are winning on ovt. withought it , But yeah when a term covers the perfecture and city thats definetly worth alot more IMO

[touchring]

Another thing i noticed that i forgot to mention is that certain areas seem to prefer it just withought it , Bill is correct when he see's alot of the ovt. with Shi but some areas are winning on ovt. withought it , But yeah when a term covers the perfecture and city thats definetly worth alot more IMO


It's a win-win situation, because the city and prefecture share the same name, people tend to indicate city or prefecture.

[Rubber Duck]

It's a win-win situation, because the city and prefecture share the same name, people tend to indicate city or prefecture.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E5%A4%A7%E9%98%AA%E5%BA%9C%2C+%E5%A4%A7%E9%98%AA%E5%B8%82%2C+%E5%A4%A7%E9%98%AA

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E5%BA%83%E5%B3%B6%E7%9C%8C%2C+%E5%BA%83%E5%B3%B6%E5%B8%82%2C%E5%BA%83%E5%B3%B6&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E7%A6%8F%E5%B2%A1%E7%9C%8C%2C+%E7%A6%8F%E5%B2%A1%E5%B8%82%2C%E7%A6%8F%E5%B2%A1&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

[touchring]

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E9%95%B7%E5%B4%8E+%2C+%E9%95%B7%E5%B4%8E%E7%9C%8C%2C+%E9%95%B7%E5%B4%8E%E5%B8%82+&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

[Rubber Duck]

I think the withouts have it, without going for a detailed count.

[touchring]

I think the withouts have it, without going for a detailed count.


The point is that when cities and prefectures share the same name, people tend to indicate city when they are referring to cities (targeted traffic).

So it's a win-win situation for advertisers.

[Rubber Duck]

I think the withouts have it, without going for a detailed count.

Yes, I take your point but for domains shorter is always better. Even with a boost to the city for the sake of disambiguity, the withouts are winning about 3 to 1 by my reckoning. If you take into account that we are talking domains rather than search terms the advantage is much much greater. Simplicity and memorability will always be the key to domaining.

[touchring]

Yes, I take your point but for domains shorter is always better. Even with a boost to the city for the sake of disambiguity, the withouts are winning about 3 to 1 by my reckoning. If you take into account that we are talking domains rather than search terms the advantage is much much greater. Simplicity and memorability will always be the key to domaining.


The shorter is always better, but they also cost much more.

In comparison to Chinese:

Shenzhen Vs Shenzhen City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E6%B7%B1%E5%9C%B3%2C%E6%B7%B1%E5%9C%B3%E5%B8%82%2C

Suzhou Vs Suzhou City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E8%8B%8F%E5%B7%9E%2C%E8%8B%8F%E5%B7%9E%E5%B8%82%2C&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Shanghai Vs Shanghai City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%2C%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%B8%82%2C&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Guangzhou Vs Guangzhou City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%B9%BF%E5%B7%9E%2C%E5%B9%BF%E5%B7%9E%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Beijing Vs Beijing City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%8C%97%E4%BA%AC%2C%E5%8C%97%E4%BA%AC%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Chengdu Vs Chengdu City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E6%88%90%E9%83%BD%2C%E6%88%90%E9%83%BD%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Nanjing Vs Nanjing City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%8D%97%E4%BA%AC%2C%E5%8D%97%E4%BA%AC%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Tianjin Vs Tianjin City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%A4%A9%E6%B4%A5%2C%E5%A4%A9%E6%B4%A5%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Xiamen Vs Xiamen City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%8E%A6%E9%97%A8%2C%E5%8E%A6%E9%97%A8%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Hangzhou Vs Hangzhou City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E6%9D%AD%E5%B7%9E%2C%E6%9D%AD%E5%B7%9E%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all


Finally, the biggest mystery solved by Google Trends.

What a wonderful tool.

People can now verify what i told them about japanese cities and chinese cities. The truth prevails. :)

[Rubber Duck]

The shorter is always better, but they also cost much more.

I am sure if you go through the whois records of the short forms of the major Japanese Cities you will see that most of them have been booked out from day one, and it won't so much a question of how much as whether at all.

[alpha]

The shorter is always better, but they also cost much more.

and thats the question.

I think though that Japanese cities that share their name with the prefecture are maybe a little misleading in this context, yes they will have greater value than the name with city symbol and the name with prefecture symbol.

...but take a city that does not share it's name with the prefecture, the general consensus is that the name without city symbol is worth more - but by what multiple?

10x? 20x? 100x?

and the overture doesn't back this arguement up either....

[touchring]

and thats the question.

I think though that Japanese cities that share their name with the prefecture are maybe a little misleading in this context, yes they will have greater value than the name with city symbol and the name with prefecture symbol.

...but take a city that does not share it's name with the prefecture, the general consensus is that the name without city symbol is worth more - but by what multiple?

10x? 20x? 100x?


That has yet to be established. Have you sold your Fukuako?

[Rubber Duck]

and thats the question.

I think though that Japanese cities that share their name with the prefecture are maybe a little misleading in this context, yes they will have greater value than the name with city symbol and the name with prefecture symbol.

...but take a city that does not share it's name with the prefecture, the general consensus is that the name without city symbol is worth more - but by what multiple?

10x? 20x? 100x?

Well I would suggest looking at Hyogo and comparing it with its capital city.

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E5%85%B5%E5%BA%AB%E7%9C%8C%2C+%E5%85%B5%E5%BA%AB%2C+%E7%A5%9E%E6%88%B8%E5%B8%82%2C+%E7%A5%9E%E6%88%B8


First two results are for the Prefecture Hyogo and the second two are for Kobe the Capital.

[mulligan]

Well I had a few names up for sale that were both prefecture and capital city (Without the shi - 市) and couldnt give them away...

When I was scooping my quota of Japanese Real Estate/Hotel names I took a lot with the shi - 市 as I beleve they will be valuable at some point, if not now.
I had the option to take them with and without (Me and genius were the only ones taking them at that point) and I opted for with (On the most part)

[Rubber Duck]

Well I had a few names up for sale that were both prefecture and capital city (Without the shi - 市) and couldnt give them away...

When I was scooping my quota of Japanese Real Estate/Hotel names I took a lot with the shi - 市 as I beleve they will be valuable at some point, if not now.
I had the option to take them with and without (Me and genius were the only ones taking them at that point) and I opted for with (On the most part)

I must admit they must have slipped me by. Dot coms?

I must say that Genius is a lot smarter than a lot of us gave him credit for!

[mulligan]

Most of them are .com's

A sample, removing in 5 minutes:

Removed

[touchring]

I must admit they must have slipped me by. Dot coms?

I must say that Genius is a lot smarter than a lot of us gave him credit for!


I think we can conclude that with or without the shi, these domains are still valuable. Check out the stats for Chinese cities.

[Rubber Duck]

Most of them are .com's

A sample, removing in 5 minutes:

Removed

Sorry, I was prying on the raw city terms without the Shi that you said you couldn't shift. That was obviously an opportunity that we all passed up. I think the market is the early days was high influenced by the views of one member, which were not necessarily on the button.

Having said that the markets on here are not always very sophisticated. You, theFabfive and Passenger Pigeon continually pick up exceptional bargains, there are also a handful of respected high end buyers, but for the most part it is Pearls before Swine.

[thegenius1]

Duck are you trying to imply the thegenius1's IQ isnt in the 140 range, LOL ... Got some pm's already asking was that some sort of diss.

[bwhhisc]

When I was scooping my quota of Japanese Real Estate/Hotel names I took a lot with the shi - 市 as I beleve they will be valuable at some point, if not now. I had the option to take them with and without (Me and genius were the only ones taking them at that point) and I opted for with (On the most part)

I did the same, on many Japanese City- RealEstate I took it with the 'shi' as it had a lot more OVT, other times without the shi had better ovt.

I never did figure out why...my only conclusion was that maybe some cities are more prone to add the word "city" on the end. ie. New York City is popular name that very often includes city, Atlantic City is popular and the word city is included always, but you NEVER hear Miami City, Atlanta City, Las Vegas City or Dallas City etc.

[Rubber Duck]

Duck are you trying to imply the thegenius1's IQ isnt in the 140 range, LOL ... Got some pm's already asking was some sort of diss.

Well I must admit that you have surprised me in recent weeks, and I was suggesting that I thought you had the better end of the split with Mulligan. But that is only an opinion.

I did the same, on many Japanese City- RealEstate I took it with the 'shi' as it had a lot more OVT, other times without the shi had better ovt.

I never did figure out why...my only conclusion was that maybe some cities are more prone to add the word "city" on the end. ie. New York City is popular name that very often includes city, Atlantic City is popular and the word city is included always, but you NEVER hear Miami City, Atlanta City, Las Vegas City or Dallas City etc.

With New York City, the City is there for disambigiation. For the others it does not apply.

[Giant]

Sorry, I was prying on the raw city terms without the Shi that you said you couldn't shift. That was obviously an opportunity that we all passed up. I think the market is the early days was high influenced by the views of one member, which were not necessarily on the button.

Having said that the markets on here are not always very sophisticated. You, theFabfive and Passenger Pigeon continually pick up exceptional bargains, there are also a handful of respected high end buyers, but for the most part it is Pearls before Swine.

"Pearls before Swine"? Very true!

I think city names w/o 市 will worth 10X - 20X more. For those that don't agree, I am just playing guitar to the cows :-).

[mulligan]

At the end of the day with or without shi - 市, where else can you drop $7 and have a shot at the kind of money we will be looking at next week/month/year.

The shi will be mostly a personal preference I think, and the 'shorter is better' point of view is certainly a valid one. Me? just quite happy to have picked up a few..

Then theres the prefecture - 県 argument... I noticed, as with shi, some got better ovt than others with 県. Though for me, ovt is not everything, it is simply one of a range of tools that we all use to evaluate the potential of any particular term.

I have weaned myself off the ovt dependeny that we all had

[bwhhisc]

I think city names w/o 市 will worth 10X - 20X more. For those that don't agree, I am just playing guitar to the cows :-).

I think you are right about the value for Chinese cities. However, when you search for information about the city and/or government informational sites, I think your get more targeted results by adding the 市.

I would rather have without...but think their is still an opportuntity to build some good city websites using the 市 incorporated into the name. And like Mulligan said, where else you going to spend $7 or $8 and have a chance to get anywhere from 2x to 1000x return.

[touchring]

I think we should wait for IDNCEO to comment.

Meanwhile, please check the statistics with the shi for Chinese cities.


Shenzhen Vs Shenzhen City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E6%B7%B1%E5%9C%B3%2C%E6%B7%B1%E5%9C%B3%E5%B8%82%2C

Suzhou Vs Suzhou City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E8%8B%8F%E5%B7%9E%2C%E8%8B%8F%E5%B7%9E%E5%B8%82%2C&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Shanghai Vs Shanghai City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%2C%E4%B8%8A%E6%B5%B7%E5%B8%82%2C&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Guangzhou Vs Guangzhou City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%B9%BF%E5%B7%9E%2C%E5%B9%BF%E5%B7%9E%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Beijing Vs Beijing City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%8C%97%E4%BA%AC%2C%E5%8C%97%E4%BA%AC%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Chengdu Vs Chengdu City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E6%88%90%E9%83%BD%2C%E6%88%90%E9%83%BD%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Nanjing Vs Nanjing City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%8D%97%E4%BA%AC%2C%E5%8D%97%E4%BA%AC%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Tianjin Vs Tianjin City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%A4%A9%E6%B4%A5%2C%E5%A4%A9%E6%B4%A5%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Xiamen Vs Xiamen City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E5%8E%A6%E9%97%A8%2C%E5%8E%A6%E9%97%A8%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Hangzhou Vs Hangzhou City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E6%9D%AD%E5%B7%9E%2C%E6%9D%AD%E5%B7%9E%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

[bwhhisc]

With New York City, the City is there for disambigiation. For the others it does not apply.

Just pointing out the U.S. differences vs. Japan/ China (for knowledge of our international idners). We now know that in Japan the use of the shi (city sign) is common behind just about all Japanese cities, but it is felt that they are more valuable without.

In China, while it is used behind cities as well, it is way less common than Japan. Most sites that incorporate the shi 'may' be more relevant to the city function or official government sites.

In the US it is only used for a select few cities that incorporate it into their name...but for almost all cities in US it is never used at all.

[alpha]

another way to look at it is from the SEO perspective.

If I am searching for information about a city, I will type city name city, for example new york city

if I don't, and I just search on New York, then I will return a trillion hits on everything remotely to do with New York, and not specifically New York City - which is not very helpful in me finding out information on the city.

results for

New York: Results 1 - 10 of about 2,510,000,000 for "new york"

New york city: Results 1 - 10 of about 321,000,000 for "new york city"

I have also noticed that it is popular for Japanese folk to take city or prefecture names as their surname, so again the results returned are going to bigger and less relevant.

at first glance, this is a plus for the with city symbol

... just another opinion for the melding pot

[Rubber Duck]

another way to look at it is from the SEO perspective.

If I am searching for information about a city, I will type city name city, for example new york city

if I don't, and I just search on New York, then I will return a trillion hits on everything remotely to do with New York, and not specifically New York City - which is not very helpful in me finding out information on the city.

results for

New York: Results 1 - 10 of about 2,510,000,000 for "new york"

New york city: Results 1 - 10 of about 321,000,000 for "new york city"

I have also noticed that it is popular for Japanese folk to take city or prefecture names as their surname, so again the results returned are going to bigger and less relevant.

at first glance, this is a plus for the with city symbol

... just another opinion for the melding pot


The ordinary people in Japan where not allowed Family Names until fairly recently. When this was introduced many just took the name of the town they lived in.

The above argument is true, in as much as people looking for a city will tend to narrow their search by adding additional qualifiers. I rarely search on less than three words as I am looking for specific information. This only goes to highlight the difference between search and type. Very few people type-in three word Combos, but we do use them for search. Paradoxically, I think your argument proves the opposite.

[bwhhisc]

If I am searching for information about a city, I will type city name city, for example new york city if I don't, and I just search on New York, then I will return a trillion hits on everything remotely to do with New York,
at first glance, this is a plus for the with city symbol... just another opinion for the melding pot

That was exactly my point above, but I still think if you are building a nice City.com or City.net website the shorter version is better if you have a choice.

[alpha]

The ordinary people in Japan where not allowed Family Names until fairly recently. When this was introduced many just took the name of the town they lived in.

The above argument is true, in as much as people looking for a city will tend to narrow their search by adding additional qualifiers. I rarely search on less than three words as I am looking for specific information. This only goes to highlight the difference between search and type. Very few people type-in three word Combos, but we do use them for search. Paradoxically, I think your argument proves the opposite.

You are preaching to the converted!

I think you misunderstood me, I agree shorter is best for type-in. But for search, it makes sense that people search more specifically, like in my New York City example above - this would explain the usually higher ovt for a with symbol.

so for type-in: without, for search, with or without.

the bottom line is, I've checked whois, the without were registered by natives moons ago (2000) - way before the with symbol. This in itself is proof as to where native Japanese believe the value lies, which is what this is all about.

My original question was the diferential in perceived value between with and without, not which was worth more - and I still don't think we have consensus on that.

[touchring]

Without is definitely more valuable, i think we already have a consensus on that.

What we can't agree on is the magnitude. Some say 10 times, some say 20 times, but for comparison purpose, if it were 20 times more valuable, then we are talking about 200 times for Chinese cities with and without!!

Compare the following.

Suzhou Vs Suzhou City:
http://www.google.com.sg/trends?q=%E8%8B%8F%E5%B7%9E%2C%E8%8B%8F%E5%B7%9E%E5%B8%82%2C&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

Nagasaki Vs Nagasaki City:
http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E9%95%B7%E5%B4%8E%2C%E9%95%B7%E5%B4%8E%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

[bwhhisc]

[QUOTE=touchring]Without is definitely more valuable, if it were 20 times more valuable, then we are talking about 200 times for Chinese cities with and without!!

You are way out of the ballpark based on ACTUAL posted sales. Based on my recollection of sales threads, I would peg the value of Japanese cities (without shi) at 2-5 times more valuable, and Chinese without shi at 10-20 times more valuable in current market.

I believe that Japanese.com cities without city sign have been selling from $100 (February-March) prices, coming up to $300 and maybe as high as $ 800 for a .com. According to your (20 times) theory .com Japanese(shi) cities would be selling for 5% of the non-shi .coms or current market from $10 to $40. I don't think any city with population of 200k and up (with shi) would sell for less than $200 in today market if you could find a seller to part with them.

Chinese cities.com- We haven't seen as much action there, but I have seen quite a few .net (without shi) selling from $30 to $200, and .coms selling from $50 to $500. NONE of these were major cities mind you...but many population 1 million plus. So if hypothetically if a mid-sized Chinese city (without shi) was lets say for sake of discussion worth $2000 today, that would put the same (shi) city at $10 according to your calculations, or reg fee?

Interested in others comments and observations. For disclosure, I have idns of about 60% without shi and 40% with shi in both Japanese and Chinese.

[touchring]

Without is definitely more valuable, if it were 20 times more valuable, then we are talking about 200 times for Chinese cities with and without!!

You are way out of the ballpark based on ACTUAL posted sales. Based on my recollection of sales threads, I would peg the value of Japanese cities (without shi) at 2-5 times more valuable, and Chinese without shi at 10-20 times more valuable in current market.


20 times is just a hypothetical figure, i do not know the magnitude since there is no precedence of a Japanese city sold without the "shi" sign on this forum - i do not want to manipulate the market price by comments that cannot be substantiated.

But i'm trying to show if it were the hypothetical 20 times, than it had to be 200 times for chinese cities in view it is almost never used! (Refer to Suzhou vs Suzhou City and Nagasaki vs Nagasaki City Google trends).

Perhaps Edwin can tell us how much he paid for Nagasaki.com.

...but many population 1 million plus.


There are plenty of "rural cities" in china, where a majority, perhaps even 90% of the people are farmers living on $1 a day. These cities still carry the Shi title - there are 666 of them!

Here's a list (not comprehensive) containing the major cities (the real urban cities are less than 30, there's another 200 small cities with a significant rural population, and the rest are basically big towns with large rural population).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China#Fujian

I have to admit that it is really confusing, even top cities have significant rural base, take for example, Chengdu city with 10 million population, but the actual urban population is only half of that. I think Kenne would know better.

[bwhhisc]

[QUOTE=bwhhisc] But i'm trying to show if it were 20 times, than it had to be 200 times for chinese cities in view it is almost never used! (Refer to Suzhou vs Suzhou City and Nagasaki vs Nagasaki City Google trends).

I am not arguing that it is not commonly 'used' in China, but the city with the shi sign is plastered all over the Chinese City website pages on the internet. If not used, why is it so prolific?

Using your own example of Souzou- google.cn

WITH city sign "苏州市" 4.21 million hits on google.cn Now go to google page 10, then up to 20, then up to page 30, 40, 50 , 60 and so on.....still finding relevant (city) info for sports, foundations, government sites etc. I can't read it all, but at first glance seems that it brings you more relevant websites.

WITHOUT city sign "苏州" 24.2 million hits on google.cn Now go to page 10, then to 20, then to page 30, 40, 50, 60 and so on... your into gift shops, embroidery services all mixed in with government etc. etc.... The quality of the 'best' of the relevant websites to the city are more scattered out with other sites. Thats just my observation...you look and feel free to say that is wrong. I don't speak or read Chinese, so had to go on gut here.

4 million Google hits is HUGE by any means. Especially when it brings up VERY relevant websites to targeted searchers. The 市 may not be spoken or used much in mentioning the city, but may become a valuable tool for internet searchers seeking specific city information and provide the url basis for (at least affordable) Chinese city websites.

TO SEARCH 4 MILLION WEBSITES- if you spent only 30 seconds at each website, surfing non-stop for 16 hours a day it would take you almost 6 years to visit them all!! Just some food for thought.

[touchring]

Thats just my observation...you look and feel free to say that is wrong. I don't speak or read Chinese, so had to go on gut here.

4 million Google hits is HUGE by any means. especially when it brings up VERY relevant websites to targeted searchers. The 市 may not be spoken or used much in mentioning the city, but may become a valuable tool for internet searchers seeking specific city information and provide the url basis for (at least affordable) Chinese city websites.

TO SEARCH 4 MILLION WEBSITES- if you spent only 30 seconds at each website, surfing non-stop for 16 hours a day it would take you almost 6 years to visit them all!!


Ok, i get what you mean. Chinese has 2 aspects, formal and informal. When people write a company document, newspapers report, or website for that matter, they will use tend to use formal writing, although not strictly, as the official name of "suzhou" is "suzhou city".

When chatting, searching or talking, people will use the shorter version. In fact, when talking the usage of the city sign is even less than what Google trends show.

But, I just found out that the situation for Taiwan might be different:

http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E5%8F%B0%E5%8C%97%2C%E5%8F%B0%E5%8C%97%E5%B8%82

台北市 is a MAJOR term.

And in HK, the city is almost never used (Google trends bar for shi is only 1 pixel thick) - http://www.google.com/trends?q=%E9%A6%99%E6%B8%AF%2C%E9%A6%99%E6%B8%AF%E5%B8%82&ctab=0&geo=all&date=all

[bwhhisc]

deal done. thanks guys for your pm's.

Can we hear the good news! Is it a shi? Or a he? lol