Verisign

[idn]

Any info on Q2 call?

[idn]

I can't find anything. Ugh

[sbe18]

http://domainnamewire.com/2015/07/24/are-idn-com-owners-about-to-
get-screwed/
Posted via Mobile Device

[sbe18]

They decided to normal sunrise, so we are going to have to buy the matches to avoid confusion.
what a marketing cluster fuck.
Posted via Mobile Device

[idn]

They decided to normal sunrise, so we are going to have to buy the matches to avoid confusion.
what a marketing cluster fuck.
Posted via Mobile Device

Fuck me. So we have first dibs at least?

[IdnHost]

http://domainnamewire.com/2015/07/24/are-idn-com-owners-about-to-get-screwed/

[NameYourself]

Sometimes the organizations we entrust to maintain any type of order, due to their one-size-fits-all mentalities instead create the very confusion and disorder they were founded to prevent in the first place. The real conversation that should be had is about ICANN. How have many of their recent decisions actually benefited the internet on a global scale, added to it's security, and overall growth?

[hanidn]

I will never register the .com_ equivalent_in_IDN.
It will never be popular. I mean forever...
So we are all here will ignore the .com_ equivalent_in_IDN.
WTH, whatever Verisign and ICANN do, it does not make any different at all.
The game is finished long time ago when the IDN.com are registered.


We have the IDN.IDN over here for almost four years..and it proved it is done and gone...

[Jay]

Clear as mud as usual.

[Drewbert]

Based primarily on feedback from domain name community stakeholders, we have revised our IDN launch strategy.

Community stakeholders excluding your actual customers, who have been paying renewal fees based on your past promises.

And we can't do anything about it of course, because registrants have no power in the ICANN process.

[Drewbert]

Looks like they've all passed PDT and will be in the root shortly.

[123]

Based primarily on feedback from domain name community stakeholders, we have revised our IDN launch strategy. We will offer these new IDN top-level domains as standalone domain names, subject to normal introductory availability and rights protection mechanisms, available to all new gTLDs. This revised approach will not require ICANN approval and is designed to provide end users and businesses with the greatest flexibility and, for registrars, a simple and straightforward framework to serve the market.

well the cctlds and now Verisign all screwed up by splitting IDN and ASCII now major confusion is virtually guaranteed, it weakens both .com and .IDN

once split it can not be undone. what an unnecessary terrible mess. This will haunt the internet forever. Well done.

[Jay]

They decided to normal sunrise, so we are going to have to buy the matches to avoid confusion.
what a marketing cluster fuck.
Posted via Mobile Device

Verisign were never going to get around a standard sunrise, so no surprise there, and as long as they give current IDN.com holders priority in buying the matches post-sunrise I don't really care about forking out some extra bucks. The problem is that we have no guarantee they will offer us that opportunity.

One positive - at least we now have something of a timeline for release.

[idn]

The problem is that we have no guarantee they will offer us that opportunity.


Yep, and I don't currently see a reason why they would.

[IdnHost]

I don't really care about forking out some extra bucks.

Could be expensive.

[Drewbert]

Yep, and I don't currently see a reason why they would.

The standard contract may even prevent it?

[Avtal]

The standard contract may even prevent it?

From the domainnamewire.com article (http://domainnamewire.com/2015/07/24/are-idn-com-owners-about-to-get-screwed/):

Reading this discussion, it seems that perhaps Verisign is just letting a normal sunrise take place before offering a sort of matching opportunity to IDN.com owners. It could look a lot like the .Porn matching program. Or Verisign might have a trick up its sleeve to keep matching domains set aside for unlocking at some time in the future.

I'm not prepared to do a google search on ".porn matching program" (seems NSFW), but from what I recall, the idea was that holders of .xxx domains were given the chance to register the equivalent .porn domains, before General Availability, but after Sunrise. If this already took place, it implies that this is something that ICANN doesn't object to.

Anyway, the incentive for Verisign to provide a one-time grandfathering opportunity is that they can afterwards say, "We tried", rather than "We lied".

Avtal

P.S. The domainnamewire.com article (http://domainnamewire.com/2015/07/24/are-idn-com-owners-about-to-get-screwed/) has been updated to include a new content-free statement from Verisign, and some more thoughts by Andrew.

[tee1]

Here is what I found on the .porn matching.
1. trademark holders first
2) XXX Sunrise B applicants (Not sure what this is or how they identified them, why were they sunrise apps with xxx?).
3) domain matching
4) general available.

Not sure its all bad, I am not feeling great we always seem to get screwed but I am glad that it seems the waiting will be over.


http://www.icmregistry.com/programs/launch-phases/

1. MARCH 02 TO APRIL 01 2015
TMCH Sunrise
If you have a registered trademark in the Trademark Clearinghouse (TMCH) you are eligible to participate in this phase.

2. APRIL 06 TO APRIL 30 2015
Sunrise B (CLOSED)
This priority registration period is for 2011. XXX Sunrise B applicants.

3. MAY 06 TO MAY 31 2015
Domain Matching (CLOSED)
This priority registration period is for 2011 .XXX Sunrise applicants AND for .XXX domain name holders. Domain Matching gives Sunrise B and existing .XXX holders (as of April 30, 2015) a priority registration opportunity to help ensure brand consistency in our new TLDs.

4. June 04 2015
General Availability
Open registration starts on June 4th, 2015 at 12:00 EST / 16:00 UTC. Each domain name and TLD can be registered and sold separately.

[tee1]

So it looks like 1 and 2 went to trademark holders (any country is a little bit concerning, can I get a trademark for секс in Japan and エロ in Russia)??? Short timeframe should help.

Sunrise A for .xxx went to those inside the adult entertainment industry

Sunrise B for .xxx went to those trademark owners from outside the adult
entertainment industry can apply to reserve (and thus block others from registering) .xxx domain names corresponding to their registered trademarks. The trademark can be registered in any country, and there are a few instances where the trademark in the reservation request may differ from the registered trademark
(e.g., spaces and certain characters such as “&” and “@” appearing in the registered trademark may be removed or replaced with hyphens).

[Rubber Duck]

My guess is under the radar. No publicity except to idn dot com owners by email. Possibly limited number of registrars.

But the biggy will be strict time limit on registration of TMs to srop gaming. Conceivably back as far as 2008. The may also be able to exclude generic terms.

I would guess crosslinking of registries can be overridden for sunrise only.

[123]

But the biggy will be strict time limit on registration of TMs to srop gaming. Conceivably back as far as 2008. The may also be able to exclude generic terms.



that would be the only sane way to do it. But do you believe they manage to do it properly?

[Avtal]

But the biggy will be strict time limit on registration of TMs to srop gaming. Conceivably back as far as 2008. The may also be able to exclude generic terms.

You are both right; that would be the only sane way to do things.

But as we have seen many times before, the sane way is not the ICANN way.

Verisign has agreed, under pressure, to sign ICANN's standard new gTLD contract. This means that during the Sunrise period, anyone with a valid entry in ICANN's Trademark Clearing House (TMCH) will be able to register the corresponding domain in Verisign's new IDN gTLDs.

The TMCH is fairly easily gamed. I'm not sure whether there are any time limits at all, and there is no prohibition against generic terms. If you have trademarked a word anywhere in the world, and can provide proof that it has been used in commerce (not too difficult), then you can put it into the TMCH.

So the question is not whether the Verisign Sunrise can be gamed; it can be. The question is whether anyone will bother.

Avtal

[Rubber Duck]

I think you have missed understood TMCH. I don't think it gives you automatic rights to anything apart from the right to apply for you own name during Sunrise. All applications have to go through adjudication and approval, and there was definitely something written in about a cut off date to avoid gaming.

The other thing is it appear that Verisign has caved in after long negotiation. However, the normal outcome of negotiations is some kind of quid pro quo. It is unlikely, however, that any deal is going to be discussed publicly, and that is very much the ICANN way, Transparency through SMOG.

You are both right; that would be the only sane way to do things.

But as we have seen many ties before, the sane way is not the ICANN way.

Verisign has agreed, under pressure, to sign ICANN's standard new gTLD contract. This means that during the Sunrise period, anyone with a valid entry in ICANN's Trademark Clearing House (TMCH) will be able to register the corresponding domain in Verisign's new IDN gTLDs.

The TMCH is fairly easily gamed. I'm not sure whether there are any time limits at all, and there is no prohibition against generic terms. If you have trademarked a word anywhere in the world, and can provide proof that it has been used in commerce (not too difficult), then you can put it into the TMCH.

So the question is not whether the Verisign Sunrise can be gamed; it can be. The question is whether anyone will bother.

Avtal

[Emil]

i think one thing, at least to me, is clear - IDNs are dead.

it doesnt matter if you own idn.com or will at some point own idn.idn or both - its dead! my guess is if you want to own idn.idn version you will get it pretty cheaply after its launched and that will be best proof of my point here that IDNs are dead. At mimimum anyone with half a brain will think 2x before committing any serious money to idn.idn given potential law suits and everthing that may stem from current idn.com holders (at least those who will still care to sue and not drop everything they own already).

some leasons in life are cheap, some are expensive - this one was a very expensive lesson, at least for me. i just hope i am better off after this not to make same dumb mistake 2x.

good luck to everyone

[idn]

i think one thing, at least to me, is clear - IDNs are dead.



I'm not hoping for much. I'd be happy with growth of 25X current revenue at this point. :)

[AWS]

domainnamewire.com Given that the IDN-as-transliteration sounds like “com”, it will create a lot of confusion if two different parties owned IDN.com and IDN.IDN-as-transliteration.

agree! its too confusing and the worst of all ideas! as 123 already said... it can not be undone

domainnamewire.com [...]is designed to provide end users and businesses with the greatest flexibility[...]

lol! its designed to generate more fees - nothing more!

domainnamewire.com Reading this discussion, it seems that perhaps Verisign is just letting a normal sunrise take place before offering a sort of matching opportunity to IDN.com owners.

wow, great! if no fake trademark owner wants your domain, then you are allowed to pay some premium price for your 10 years old name. if you can not afford it, who cares...



whose fault is all of this?

ICANNs!!!

these inflexible bureaucrats did not understand what they're doing!

i said this before... sticking to this trademark owner bullshit makes no sence in this case. trademark owners are already able to register their names. they also have a tool (UDRP) to get names back.

thanks to ICANNs stupidity, trademark owners now have to work through the TCMH process and have to pay more for all their names/trademarks!
but lets face it, most small and normal businesses didnt even know the nGtld programm, especially verisigns plans. they will have to deal with cybersquatters after sunrise. a circumstance which could have been avoided.


verisigns decision? i totally understand them...
they are sick of talking with these morons and from a business perspective its the more profitable way, but i still hope they remain fair and consider the following...

- no premium prices for existing .com/.net owners
- i think its not allows, but a grandfathering system like .UK would be great

[Drewbert]

Well, I must say the .xxx situation makes me feel more comfortable that things may turn out OK. Apart from the trademark vultures circling about my head eyeing up my generics.

[hanidn]

i think one thing, at least to me, is clear - IDNs are dead.
good luck to everyone

IDN.coms have been moving last 2-3 years. at least in Korean.

http://xn--910bx01e.net/pimages/two_in.jpg

[Avtal]

Reading between the lines, it sounds like the "secondary sunrise" may be our only opportunity to convert our IDN.com domains to IDN.com-in-IDN.

I say "only opportunigy" because Verisign's ambiguous conference call statements could imply that Verisign has given up on the idea of permanently locking each IDN.com domain to the corresponding IDN.com-in-IDN domain.

If this is the case, then once the Trademark Sunrise is over, Versign will (if we are lucky) hold a "secondary sunrise" for IDN.com registrants to register the corresponding IDN.com-in-IDN. Once the secondary sunrise is over, then (reading between the lines) all remaining IDN.com-in-IDN domains may be made available for registration by the general public. Including IDN.com-in-IDN domains for which someone else holds the corresponding IDN.com domain.

This means that when/if the secondary sunrise takes place, probably near the end of this year, you will need to have enough cash on hand to register all the IDN.com-in-IDN domains that correspond to your IDN.com domains, or at least the ones you want to keep. And over the following year you will have to decide whether to renew or drop the obsolete IDN.com domains, knowing that someone else might pick them up.

Avtal

[Rubber Duck]

I think you need to stop hypothesising and study what Pat Kane said.

[Avtal]

I think you need to stop hypothesising and study what Pat Kane said.

It's also worth studying what James Bidzos, the CEO, said (I'm quoting from the domainnamewire article):

Based primarily on feedback from domain name community stakeholders, we have revised our IDN launch strategy. We will offer these new IDN top-level domains as standalone domain names, subject to normal introductory availability and rights protection mechanisms, available to all new gTLDs. This revised approach will not require ICANN approval and is designed to provide end users and businesses with the greatest flexibility and, for registrars, a simple and straightforward framework to serve the market.

The phrase "We will offer these new IDN top-level domains as standalone domain names" could be significant; it sounds as though Verisign is moving away from the idea of bundling .com with .com-in-IDN. Or perhaps I am reading too much into Bidzos's CEO-speak.

In the transcript (http://seekingalpha.com/article/3352925-verisign-vrsn-d-james-bidzos-on-q2-2015-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=4&p=qanda&l=last), besides the quotes that domainnamewire published, was another exchange that I found interesting:

Sterling Auty - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Thanks. Hi, guys. Wondering first on the IDNs, will all of your IDNs roll out simultaneously? Or will it be a phased rollout beginning at the end of the year?

D. James Bidzos - Executive Chairman, President & CEO:
The rollout will be phased. We're not going to roll out all 11 at once. You shouldn't expect that we're going to sequentially space out 11 either. It'll be phased. It'll be based on a number of different considerations. Certainly, the size of each market, the complexity of each market, the opportunity as it exists will all be factors. But we can say that the rollout will begin before the end of the year.

Sterling Auty - JPMorgan Securities LLC:
Is there any update on pricing that you're willing to give us at this point?

D. James Bidzos - Executive Chairman, President & CEO:
Only that we're still working on it. And that, as you know, we do have complete flexibility by each individual IDN and by each region. So, we also have the flexibility to utilize premium pricing. There are a number of different – of course, it's very different from the provisions of the dot-com registry agreements. So, we have tremendous flexibility. So, we are working through that. But I don't expect that to slow down the rollout. And it is a bit early for us to describe to you what that pricing will be.

So a phased rollout, starting before the end of the year. And possibly premium pricing.

I'm hypothesizing that there are interesting times ahead.

Avtal

[sbe18]

Would a chinese simplified variant that has been blocked by the traditional chinese version, now be available when this proposed roll out is finished ?
Posted via Mobile Device

[bwhhisc]

This means that when/if the secondary sunrise takes place, probably near the end of this year, you will need to have enough cash on hand to register all the IDN.com-in-IDN domains that correspond to your IDN.com domains, or at least the ones you want to keep. And over the following year you will have to decide whether to renew or drop the obsolete IDN.com domains, knowing that someone else might pick them up.
Avtal

.com may very well remain top dog, and the 'matching' new gtlds the second string for a long time to come.
If you have a great generic name, keeping both .com and acquiring the .comgtld may be the only good option to protect value of the name and keep all the traffic to your site, especially for names with significant type in.

[clipper]

I think you need to stop hypothesising and study what Pat Kane said.

Shit. Game over. What was it? $95 million in reg fees over the past 15 years?

Patrick S. Kane - Senior Vice President, Naming and Directory Services

Well, definitely we would contemplate changing is to not hold a reservation for grandfathered dot-com registrations during the sunrise. And that's the modification that we were trying to get approval from ICANN on. And we've taken that out, so we can move forward.


I still have to re-read that first "sentence" a hundred more times... Is he saying... What is he saying?

Is Pat Kane a native English speaker?

[Rubber Duck]

What he actually said, is that relunctantly they are going to have to switch off the link between the two registries during Sunrise, which implies that it will be switched back on afterwards. Of course, there may be things that are going to happen which he has not said, but then we down to Rumsfelds Unknown Unknowns, which in his case was just about everything apart from stuffing his own pockets.

[Rubber Duck]

Would a chinese simplified variant that has been blocked by the traditional chinese version, now be available when this proposed roll out is finished ?
Posted via Mobile Device

No.

[Rubber Duck]

Yes, Bidzos phraseology was more worrying, but if he is anything like any CEO I have every worked for then he has not a clue what he is talking about.

It's also worth studying what James Bidzos, the CEO, said (I'm quoting from the domainnamewire article):



The phrase "We will offer these new IDN top-level domains as standalone domain names" could be significant; it sounds as though Verisign is moving away from the idea of bundling .com with .com-in-IDN. Or perhaps I am reading too much into Bidzos's CEO-speak.

In the transcript (http://seekingalpha.com/article/3352925-verisign-vrsn-d-james-bidzos-on-q2-2015-results-earnings-call-transcript?page=4&p=qanda&l=last), besides the quotes that domainnamewire published, was another exchange that I found interesting:



So a phased rollout, starting before the end of the year. And possibly premium pricing.

I'm hypothesizing that there are interesting times ahead.

Avtal

[Rubber Duck]

"And I would like Pat to comment further on that part of the process."

In other words " I am out of my depth and would like to hand over to somebody that knows what the fuck he is talking about."

Talk about premium pricing is worrying, but perhaps the strategy is going to be to completely price everyone out of the market during Sunrise.

He also states they are not all launching together. Gives us an opportunity to adjust our strategies, and perhaps them as well.

[blastfromthepast]

Thank you.

[alpha]

I have to agree with blast here, it's game over.

never mind what we individually might or might not get after all this sunrise BS... the bottom line is that we need traction and mass adoption and trust in these new gtlds. That will never happen when different owners have the potential to own the exact same sounding domain.ext.

This latest move by Verisign is nothing more than commercial damage limitation to recoup their outlay

[123]

So a phased rollout, starting before the end of the year. And possibly premium pricing.

Premium pricing? Does that mean one has to pay $xxx-xxxx/year to get IDN.IDN for your IDN.com?

Only that we're still working on it. And that, as you know, we do have complete flexibility by each individual IDN and by each region. So, we also have the flexibility to utilize premium pricing. There are a number of different – of course, it's very different from the provisions of the dot-com registry agreements. So, we have tremendous flexibility.

Short-term profit thinking to keep the shareholders happy = long-term screw-up. One can only hope that they choose not to go the premium route(and replicate the successful .com pricing model) and if they do one can hope that they screw up and manage not to identify valuable generic keyword domains.

[hanidn]

IDN.IDNs are nonsense totally.
If you give up the IDN.com, they will catch it cheaper.
Even though, the low value IDN.coms those were registered after 2003.

[clipper]

Premium pricing? Does that mean one has to pay $xxx-xxxx/year to get IDN.IDN for your IDN.com?

Yes, which makes perfect sense in a world where the per capita GDP of all these other countries is much larger than the English speaking world. Of course, that's not this world.

Can't wait to see their premium pricing for Hindi and Chinese, where the per capita GDP is under $8k.

Short-term profit thinking to keep the shareholders happy = long-term screw-up.

That pretty much sums it up.

One can only hope that they choose not to go the premium route(and replicate the successful .com pricing model) and if they do one can hope that they screw up and manage not to identify valuable generic keyword domains.

They will; he was explicit. Remember, they are not happy with the .com pricing restrictions imposed on them by the DoC, that's why he brought it up.

And it would take a bag of idiots to not identify keywords now that they have 15 years of market research in the form of adds, drops, transfers, corrections etc. from the IDN community. That's worth a LOT more than the reg. fees. They don't even have to hire translators: we did it for them.

You're welcome, Verisign.

[idnowner]

BTW, what were some of the biggest IDN.com sales?

[Avtal]

I have to agree with blast here, it's game over.

never mind what we individually might or might not get after all this sunrise BS... the bottom line is that we need traction and mass adoption and trust in these new gtlds. That will never happen when different owners have the potential to own the exact same sounding domain.ext.

This latest move by Verisign is nothing more than commercial damage limitation to recoup their outlay

Actually, I disagree. I don't think Verisign's (hypothetical) decision not to bundle means "game over".

If I'm an end user, and I'm interested in buying водка.ком，I will probably ask the seller if водка.com is also available. Might as well pick up the type-in traffic, in case some poorly-written applications auto-append .com to what is clearly a Cyrillic domain. Plus, some mobile-phone keyboards come with a ".com" key.

But I won't worry whether some deranged cybersquatter registers водка.コム or водка.קום, because none of my customers will ever try to type those. I don't care whether Verisign has a way of preventing anyone but me from registering these.

Likewise, if my competitor decides to purchase пиво.ком, I don't really care whether or not he succeeds in purchasing пиво.com as well. That is, I don't care whether Verisign enforces bundling for пиво.com/.ком, since that's not my domain.

What this boils down to: Sellers who can sell both the .com and the .com-in-IDN domain will be at an advantage. But end users won't care whether bundling is enforced everywhere for .com/.com-in-IDN, because they are only interested in the domain they are purchasing. The idea that bundling will affect .ком's overall trustworthiness is in the mind of domain investors, not end users. End users don't spend time thinking about this kind of thing; they are too busy running their businesses.

Two much more important factors in the uptake of .com-in-IDN:

1) Will Verisign be able to leverage the name recognition of .com to promote the new TLDs? (This will be difficult for the Chinese version, since it sounds so little like "com").

2) Are end users (and their customers) interested in domains in their own script/language? When I started playing with IDNs in 2009, I thought the answer was obviously "yes". But given the limited uptake of IDN TLDs such as .рф， I'm no longer as sure.

So there are still a lot of risks, and the game could still end badly. But the (possible) lack of bundling is not a major factor, and the game is not over yet.

Avtal

[hanidn]

2) Are end users (and their customers) interested in domains in their own script/language? When I started playing with IDNs in 2009, I thought the answer was obviously "yes". But given the limited uptake of IDN TLDs such as .рф， I'm no longer as sure.


They want their own script and language domains but Extension.

They want to hang with the most famous and already known top ranked Extension.

It is nonsense that I worry someone who never run faster than I am.

If I am always the winner why do I have to care about the new runner’s looking or his record?

The new .com_in_IDNs are just one of many brand new gTLDs.

If I registered IDN.com, I do not carry who registered IDN.net, IDN.org or IDN.biz... It’s same.

Main concern is only who has many valuable IDN.coms or not…

Only very few IDN.com owners will stand on winner's circle.

[clipper]

BTW, what were some of the biggest IDN.com sales?

You really want a public list of them at this point?

Drill a hole through the hard drive, they're all worth $7.99.

[123]

BTW, what were some of the biggest IDN.com sales?

You can find them easily if you do some research. There were very few public low 6 figure sales, a couple perhaps...

Majority of the "high" sales xxxx, a few xxxxx and a couple of low xxxxxx.(mostly japanese and a huge russian sale)

[bwhhisc]

You really want a public list of them at this point?
Drill a hole through the hard drive, they're all worth $7.99.

But nobody is selling any A list idns. ;)

[Jay]

they're all worth $7.99.

I will pay up to 15x this amount for your premium names. PM me. :)

[clipper]

I will pay up to 15x this amount for your premium names. PM me. :)

They're not worth that. They're not worth selling, and they're not worth buying. They're not worth anything until we know what the renewal costs are via Verisign's premium pricing. HINT: The lower we value them, the lower the "premium" should be.

Aliasing is dead, now two different entities can own .com and .comIDN.

So, let's say you were the CTO of the largest bank in Russia, Сбербанк, which happens to translate to "savings bank," arguably generic. Would you entrust your website to Сбербанк.kom knowing that Сбербанк.com is owned by someone else and they sound identical?

Forget the keyboard change, this doesn't pass the radio test.

And in my hypothetical situation you run a bank, with login and password requirements, which can be phished extremely easily by the .com holder if it's not tied to .kom.

Are you going to trust Verisign with your clients' login information? Are you going to pay a premium not just for the new .kom, but also for the .com that's been held for who knows how many years and at who knows what cost?

No, you're going to do what's safe. Use the domain you always have, or move to a native script TLD you can trust, and not have to buy out a .com holder.

[idn]

Anyone hear anything new?

[idnowner]

Anyone hear anything new?

Damn! I came here to check out your post to see if YOU had anything new.

Oh well. Suffer we must a bit longer, I guess.

[Drewbert]

Just sitting and waiting.

When you think about it, they could actually do the TM allocations DURING the mandatory DNS shutdown phase, they just wouldn't go live until the DNS was allowed to fire up. That would have saved some time.

[Rubber Duck]

Just sitting and waiting.

When you think about it, they could actually do the TM allocations DURING the mandatory DNS shutdown phase, they just wouldn't go live until the DNS was allowed to fire up. That would have saved some time.

They are also not obliged to publicise anything, which may work to our advantage.