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View Full Version : Does owning 1000+ domains give you a PhD in Domaining?


IDNCowboy
14th June 2006, 03:17 AM
I've come across this a few times on NamePros today and other forums.

These people claim due to the amount of their regs they know what they're doing.....

These guys on namepros have pretty much bashed IDNs and said they have no place on the web.


In the ascii world not everyone holds 3000 or even 1000 premium domain names and we know it. (of course there are several that do hold such premium portfolios internet reit etc)

idnowner
14th June 2006, 03:24 AM
I've come across this a few times on NamePros today and other forums.

These people claim due to the amount of their regs they know what they're doing.....

These guys on namepros have pretty much bashed IDNs and said they have no place on the web.


In the ascii world not everyone holds 3000 or even 1000 premium domain names and we know it. (of course there are several that do hold such premium portfolios internet reit etc)

One domain or 1,000 - it all comes down to how much profit you can generate. The one with the most money is the winner. And sometimes, it's a long time before you know the outcome.

markits
14th June 2006, 03:56 AM
One domain or 1,000 - it all comes down to how much profit you can generate. The one with the most money is the winner. And sometimes, it's a long time before you know the outcome.

Agree. That is why the top Japanese idn owner (the one in my view) has only got 25 + 550 Japanese domains.

Edwin
14th June 2006, 10:58 AM
There was that Belgian doctor who owned over 200,000 junk .com domains and who - if I recall correctly - went bankrupt before renewals, leaving Network Solutions carrying the can and trying unsuccessfully to salvage anything from the situation...

alexd
14th June 2006, 11:03 AM
In my opinion, it is all about QUALITY over QUANTITY.
Give me 1 decent IDN domain over 100 JUNK ASCII domains anyday.


Alex

Rubber Duck
14th June 2006, 11:26 AM
I've come across this a few times on NamePros today and other forums.

These people claim due to the amount of their regs they know what they're doing.....

These guys on namepros have pretty much bashed IDNs and said they have no place on the web.


In the ascii world not everyone holds 3000 or even 1000 premium domain names and we know it. (of course there are several that do hold such premium portfolios internet reit etc)

Shear numbers are not an good indicator of understanding and may even be a sign of incompetence or desperation. Some of the larger portfolios are working on getting fair returns on very high levels on investment, rather than making a killing on a handful.

At the end of the day each domain is individual. If you are picking them up in shovel fulls then you need to be getting them cheap and to have a high success rate in percentage terms. In most cases that will not be happening, but there are exceptions and in the early stages of speculation that strategy can prove very rewarding.

Explorer
14th June 2006, 12:30 PM
My opinion, owning 1000+ domains does not give you a PhD in Domaining, but owning 1000+ IDN domains at this stage automatically does. The amount of work you've done plus you are guaranteed to have some sure winners in your collection.

networker
14th June 2006, 12:32 PM
How about this. Owning 1000+ domains does not give you a PhD in Domaining, but owning 1000+ IDN domains at this stage automatically does?

I'm close to a 1000 IDN portfolio, and I can honestly say that my knowledge of IDNs is limited, as I've only been in this niche for the past few months.

I'm always learning :)

touchring
14th June 2006, 01:28 PM
I'm close to a 1000 IDN portfolio, and I can honestly say that my knowledge of IDNs is limited, as I've only been in this niche for the past few months.

I'm always learning :)


Geee, i'm barely two thirds, i guess i have to work harder to get my PhD. :o

domainguru
14th June 2006, 02:18 PM
All owning 1000 names guarantees you is $7000 (minimum) of renewal fees per year. Whether you make $7000 of loss or $1M of profit is entirely down to the quality of the names.

mulligan
14th June 2006, 02:27 PM
Geee, i'm barely two thirds, i guess i have to work harder to get my PhD. :o

Wow! Im still in playschool then....:p

IDNo
14th June 2006, 02:31 PM
These guys on namepros have pretty much bashed IDNs and said they have no place on the web.

Who are "these guys" ?

Be more specific and provide some examples.

I know lots of namepros members and visit the forum every day, and I've not seen any type of negative idn campaign going on.

Just because you met a few people that don't share your view on idn's doesn't make the whole forum against them.

domainguru
14th June 2006, 02:54 PM
Who are "these guys" ?

Be more specific and provide some examples.

I know lots of namepros members and visit the forum every day, and I've not seen any type of negative idn campaign going on.

Just because you met a few people that don't share your view on idn's doesn't make the whole forum against them.

Let me guess? You just joined this forum today from NamePros - perhaps your oh so subtle name is a clue.

This "war" is boring me to tears already. Whoever started it should think long and hard about what they have done ...

IDNo
14th June 2006, 03:31 PM
domainguru, please stop following me from thread to thread and taking your frustration with other people out on me. I have done nothing wrong, posted nothing rude, and find you to be quite impolite.

Surely that red color doesn't mean you are a moderator here? I hope not, because you reflect very poorly on this forum.

Good day sir.

domainguru
14th June 2006, 03:35 PM
domainguru, please stop following me from thread to thread and taking your frustration with other people out on me. I have done nothing wrong, posted nothing rude, and find you to be quite inpolite.

Surely that red color doesn't mean you are a moderator here. I hope not, because you reflect very poorly on this forum.

errr .. that is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.....

When you actually make a positive contribution to this forum about the future of IDNs, I will issue a humble apology. But all I am hearing is "blah blah blah".

Rubber Duck
14th June 2006, 03:39 PM
Yes, I think that is a little unwise. The Dumber than Dumb Fuck remark relates to the fact that this is the guy that imparted most of the orginal advice I got when I first started domaining about 5 ago. He has forgotten more about domains than most people will ever know!

IDNo
14th June 2006, 03:43 PM
errr .. that is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time.....

When you actually make a positive contribution to this forum about the future of IDNs, I will issue a humble apology. But all I am hearing is "blah blah blah".
You've got a real problem.

I hope you get some real help for it.

In the meantime, please move along. Thanks.

domainguru
14th June 2006, 03:45 PM
You've got a real problem.

I hope you get some real help for it.

this is my last reply in this thread because it is clear you have nothing to say about IDNs or anything else. nite.

IDNo
14th June 2006, 03:49 PM
How can anybody have a productive conversation when you attack and insult new members as soon as they post, or disagree with your opinions?

You need to step back and take a look at yourself.

Explorer
14th June 2006, 03:56 PM
Who are "these guys" ?

Be more specific and provide some examples.

I know lots of namepros members and visit the forum every day, and I've not seen any type of negative idn campaign going on.

Just because you met a few people that don't share your view on idn's doesn't make the whole forum against them.

I don't know who these guys are, but I would like to personally thank them for not believing in IDNs and allowing me (and other members of this forum, I suspect) to assemble nice portfolios. Deep down inside we are very greatful. I know I am. Really.

IDNo
14th June 2006, 04:05 PM
I don't know who these guys are,
Apparently nobody does. I'm starting to think it never happened. Hmmm weird.

allowing me (and other members of this forum, I suspect) to assemble nice portfolios.
That's great. Congrats!

I understand that you feel you've assembled a nice portfolio of IDN's. Can I ask how many IDN sales you have made? How much profit has that nice IDN portfolio made you?

Rubber Duck
14th June 2006, 04:11 PM
Apparently nobody does. I'm starting to think it never happened. Hmmm weird.


That's great. Congrats!

I understand that you feel you've assembled a nice portfolio of IDN's. Can I ask how many IDN sales you have made? How much profit has that nice IDN portfolio made you?

Explorer had that drops market almost tied downdown for about 3 or 4 months earlier this year under the pseudonym JobCollect. He drove nearly everyone mad.

mulligan
14th June 2006, 04:11 PM
I understand that you feel you've assembled a nice portfolio of IDN's. Can I ask how many IDN sales you have made? How much profit has that nice IDN portfolio made you?
IDNo, if you want to learn about IDN's I suggest you read the old posts. I get the feeling you are only here to cause trouble and its getting really tiresome.

If you have a legitimate question I will answer it, otherwise stop with the antagonistic posts...

BTW -- You have no idea what Explorer has or even who he is. There is one thing I do know, he has a portfolio that would make you cry...

alexd
14th June 2006, 04:17 PM
Have to agree here with Mulligan.

For the last day or so now, it seems that half of the posts here are turning into fights about each others thoughts towards IDNs. It IS getting tiresome.

Cant we just merge all these treads into one big one, where if people want to go and have a fight, they can do it there, and not have new threads popping up every minute.

Alex.

IDNo
14th June 2006, 04:23 PM
IDNo, if you want to learn about IDN's I suggest you read the old posts. I get the feeling you are only here to cause trouble and its getting really tiresome.

Please explain how asking this question >> Can I ask how many IDN sales you have made? How much profit has that nice IDN portfolio made you? << is causing trouble?

I'm looking for simple facts, reported sales etc.

BTW -- You have no idea what Explorer has or even who he is. There is one thing I do know, he has a portfolio that would make you cry...
Likewise. But I don't go around bragging about it, and when I make a claim I have the proof and facts to back it up. :)

That's something that seems to be lacking around here. Simple questions are avoided and left unanswered, and new members are insulted and attacked when they ask them. I'm not trying to start trouble, just looking for some facts. Thanks.

touchring
14th June 2006, 04:29 PM
Apparently nobody does. I'm starting to think it never happened. Hmmm weird.


That's great. Congrats!

I understand that you feel you've assembled a nice portfolio of IDN's. Can I ask how many IDN sales you have made? How much profit has that nice IDN portfolio made you?


Hi IDNo, let's be honest.

I'll put it this way, IDNs are for newbies - there's no way for newbies at the current moment to make money out of ASCII domains. Look what happened to the ASCII market right now. Of course, i know big ASCIIs domainers are earning hundreds of thousands from PPC every month - these people do not need to waste their time on IDNs.

I'm a newbie, went into ASCII domains only in November last year, and now the bubble has burst. Luckily, i cashed out most of my ASCII names quickly (i'm still stuck with a few though. ;( ), and put them into IDNs.

Today, i've got a 700 name portfolio earning twice their renewal fee without IE7. And mind you, i'm a newbie - i didn't go into IDN in 2003, 2004, like some of the senior members here do - how i wish i knew about idn domains in 2003, i would have scooped up 10,000 idns earning tens of thousands in ppc a mth.

And the great thing is that, there are still plenty of good idn names out there. You just have to find them.

thefabfive
14th June 2006, 04:36 PM
There is a good list of IDN sales at IDNTools (http://www.idntools.net/idnsales.php). Many private sales are not listed but this is probably the most comprehensive list. :)

bramiozo
14th June 2006, 04:40 PM
IDNo, after having read your line of questioning I can only conclude you're trying to mock idn's and idn'ers.

Asking for details on sales and being surprised when you don't get answers, what's wrong with you ?

IDNo
14th June 2006, 04:40 PM
touchring, thank you for the friendly and informative post. :)

thefabfive, thank you for the source. I will have a good read. :)

bramiozo, it's unfortunate you feel that way. I was not mocking anybody, but I do have healthy skepticism. There is a difference. I was just looking for some facts, after seeing all the hoopla about IDN's spilling over into other forums. Now I have a source to look at the reported IDN sales, and replies from a couple people that didn't attack me for asking, so I'm happy.

touchring
14th June 2006, 04:43 PM
IDNo, after having read your line of questioning I can only conclude you're trying to mock idn's and idn'ers.

Asking for details on sales and being surprised when you don't get answers, what's wrong with you ?


I think i've answered IDNo's question - given the choice of ASCII and IDNs - IDN is a less risky bet - that's the reason we're all into this. Sales, enquiries, etc, will always come in the future (let's say we go back to the past before nov 2005 when there were hardly any non-latin idn sales, but giant, ducky, still poured their money into idns, and that has proved to be a wise choice for both).

If idns can't work out, i guess the whole of domaining isn't going to be profitable for us people.

Many people have many different stands here - some want to promote their "wares", others, like myself, just want to share their thoughts, all have different objectives. Some of it is the truth, some of it just "marketing promotion". Readers themselves have to differentiate opportunity from hype.

bramiozo
14th June 2006, 04:50 PM
An answer that has been given many times over and something he could have read on namepros.com in threads that are still active. The fact is he asking for details on revenues and that is not done, he must know this if he's somehow experienced.

touchring
14th June 2006, 05:22 PM
An answer that has been given many times over and something he could have read on namepros.com in threads that are still active. The fact is he asking for details on revenues and that is not done, he must know this if he's somehow experienced.


I've listed out natural type-in for my Chat.com domain sale thread on this forum (search chat.com) - no search engine linking/record, no existing transliteration website, whatsoever. And yes, the domain is withdrawn from the market.

Drewbert
14th June 2006, 05:43 PM
Can I ask how many IDN sales you have made? How much profit has that nice IDN portfolio made you?

If you're making profit there is no need to sell. Ever.

My 3000 odd ASCII domains make profit. Enough to well and truly cover my ASCII and IDN costs.

My 3000 odd IDN names are showing signs of making money. That's enough proof for me to know that IDN will be HUGE in the future.

My best IDN cost me $10 and has made $118 at PPC so far this month. Can you imagine how much that name will make once IE7 is distributed?

I know that in the future - a few years down the track - my ASCII revenue will be eclipsed SEVERELY by my IDN revenue. And it also allows me to diversify the SOURCE of my income - I will no longer be dependent on the health of the US economy for 95% of my revenue.

That's the beef, from a successful ASCII domainer. Now you have the option of understanding this post, or continuing to run around crying out "where's the beef?"

Your reaction will speak volumes about your intentions.

touchring
14th June 2006, 05:59 PM
That's the beef, from a successful ASCII domainer. Now you have the option of understanding this post, or continuing to run around crying out "where's the beef?"

Your reaction will speak volumes about your intentions.


Drewbert is really a late starter in IDN (When did you really start bulk regging? February?), but he went ahead and achieved a lot in just a few months. Very impressive - genuine remark - i'm not selling him any names. :)

IDNCowboy
14th June 2006, 06:47 PM
Drewbert are most of your names Japanese?

IDNo
15th June 2006, 08:25 AM
Your reaction will speak volumes about your intentions.

My reaction is to ask how many IDN sales you have made? End users?

If you don't want to give specific names or numbers, then I really have nothing else to say.

Rubber Duck
15th June 2006, 08:32 AM
My reaction is to ask how many IDN sales you have made? End users?

If you don't want to give specific names or numbers, then I really have nothing else to say.

Drewbert doesn't sell IDN, he buys them. I think his top three acquisitions will have set him back $12K.

IDNo
15th June 2006, 08:42 AM
Continuing to spend money on IDN's, not making money on them.

I guess it's all speculation about the future, IE7, foreign languages, special keyboards and such.

Very interesting.

thegenius1
15th June 2006, 08:51 AM
Continuing to spend money on IDN's, not making money on them.

I guess it's all speculation about the future, IE7, foreign languages, special keyboards and such.

Very interesting.


News Flash , We are Now allowed to buy diamonds, emeralds , rubys , platinum, gold , silver ect. For years they could not utilize these gems in Certain countrys ie: Japan , China , Russia , India , ect ... The word that they can now utilize and buy these gems is going to be hitting the masses in these countries in the next 6-12 months, but what is in if for you is there is a couple places selling these at 7 bucks a pop, not even a wholesale price , Big jewlery stores like google and yahoo are gearing up to fully support these gems and the lines outside these stores will be massive. Maybe you can understand that type of talk ?

Rubber Duck
15th June 2006, 09:00 AM
Continuing to spend money on IDN's, not making money on them.

I guess it's all speculation about the future, IE7, foreign languages, special keyboards and such.

Very interesting.

In most of the world the necessary keyboards have been around for a very long time. Keyboards are really only about software drivers and markings. India is the only place I know working on keyboards as they are looking to produce ones that will support a dozen or more different scripts. That involves having LCD markings on the keys. I remember seeing an Arabic Keyboard for the first time in about 1985.

When you talk languages, it is not really that complicated. All we are doing is cutting and pasting fragments of text into a registration interface. The key is identifying which fragments are going to be worth a lot of money. This is done in very much the same way that you would evaluate bits of ASCII text. You don't need to be Head of Linguistics at Oxford University!

touchring
15th June 2006, 09:09 AM
Continuing to spend money on IDN's, not making money on them.

I guess it's all speculation about the future, IE7, foreign languages, special keyboards and such.

Very interesting.


Ok, i think you want to understand the dynamics of the situation, here's some points.


People started on IDNs at various times:

Group A). Those that started in 2003/2004 want to cash out partially to the tune of 100k or more while the heat that they created with the help of IE7's impending launch is on (e.g. Giant, RD, Olney etc). They have waited so long, and they know the pain of waiting.

Group B). Those who started in Nov/Dec (myself, Sal, etc) are selling when the opportunity presents itself - at least enough to pay for next year's reg fee, and maybe to buy some other names that we could not register. We're just leveraging on the heat created by Group A. And unlike Group A, some of the names we sell are our best names (people won't buy poor names), so it's more like switching from one name to another rather than cashing out.

Group C). Those that came in late (Feb/Mar) find it hard to find good free names, so they panick, and are trying to buy from those who registered earlier. Also, some might enjoy the "adrenalin rush" of chopping big names on open forums.


Bottomline:

Everyone here believes that IDNs have potential - but the key is the "waiting time" and "holding power". Not everyone wants to wait 6-8 years for that typical Chinese or Japanese domain to reach $10k or $20k value, so if it's possible to cash out right now, why not? And for every seller here who has invested in IDNs before 2004, there is another maybe a few more that are keeping quiet and sitting tight on their investment.


Advice for newbies:

Buy selectively and at the price you think is fair value. Try not to give yourself a timeline like "I just got 20k, i need to spend it in 3 days, give me your best domains!" I myself made that mistake earlier with ASCII names, luckily i sold more than i bought, but still stuck with some.

And if you are looking for a quick gain, forget it, this is a medium to long term investment, unless you have a time machine and can get yourself into Group A.

Drewbert
15th June 2006, 09:37 AM
My reaction is to ask how many IDN sales you have made? End users?

If you don't want to give specific names or numbers, then I really have nothing else to say.

Clearly, you either didn't understand my previous post, or don't want to.

Either way, I can see I'm wasting my time.

Reminds me of a joke.

Q. What do an Australian and a computer have in common?

A. You have to punch information into both of them.

Q. What's the difference between an Australian and a computer?

A. A computer doesn't forget.

bwhhisc
15th June 2006, 11:26 AM
I understand that you feel you've assembled a nice portfolio of IDN's. Can I ask how many IDN sales you have made? How much profit has that nice IDN portfolio made you?

Most people are holding their idns, as the values are going to really take off as they come into mainstream use with the release of IE7. Why sell now, when you pretty much know they are going to be worth quite a bit more in the foreseeable future. As advertising appears with native script urls, people will begin to utilize native scripts instead of English urls.

In reverse, if the Chinese had invented the internet, you would be looking everything up with a Chinese translator. URLs would be in Chinese, not English. How inconvenient! Not to mention aggravating. And if someone offered to change the "Chinese" to English urls do you think the English speaking population would prefer that? Of course. Thats how simple all this idn stuff really is.

85% of the world does not speak English, idns are for this market. Advertising agencies worldwide are going to have a field day with these campaigns. All of the pieces for this system are in place, and the final requirement is IE7 to be mainstream.

idnowner
15th June 2006, 02:51 PM
Ok, i think you want to understand the dynamics of the situation, here's some points.

People started on IDNs at various times:


What group am I in? I started in November 2000.

alpha
15th June 2006, 03:05 PM
What group am I in? I started in November 2000.

that would be either "Group D: lucky" or "Group E: Show-off" :rolleyes:

and you can put me in "Group F: Jealous"

touchring
15th June 2006, 03:12 PM
What group am I in? I started in November 2000.


I've not thought about that, maybe Group "Pay your bills on time."

idnowner
15th June 2006, 03:27 PM
that would be either "Group D: lucky" or "Group E: Show-off" :rolleyes:

and you can put me in "Group F: Jealous"

A LOT of the best names were picked up in drops, in 2003-2005, when I wasn't even looking! All of my names were registered in 2000, 2001 and early 2006.

Rubber Duck
15th June 2006, 03:30 PM
A LOT of the best names were picked up in drops, in 2003-2005, when I wasn't even looking! All of my names were registered in 2000, 2001 and early 2006.

I think I would agree that somewhere around 2003-04, there were more opportunities than with the original test bad.

IDNCowboy
15th June 2006, 03:33 PM
A LOT of the best names were picked up in drops, in 2003-2005, when I wasn't even looking! All of my names were registered in 2000, 2001 and early 2006.
<-waiting for idnowner to auction off one of them ;P

markits
15th June 2006, 03:34 PM
What group am I in? I started in November 2000.

I was going to suggest this group to touch too.

Starting from 2000, this is absolute the luckiest group. I am lucky that I got few domains from someone in this group, but I know that these guys have been rejecting offers at the $xx,xxx range all the time. I have only seen one person in this group (Javago) is selling few domains (the auction of Chinese Taipei.com went up to $15,000+ but did not meet the reserve).

markits
15th June 2006, 03:49 PM
<-waiting for idnowner to auction off one of them ;P
I don't think that this is going to happen. One domain that idnowner owns has Jp-OVT with ext 5000, a top financial domain. He is not even letting it go for a half million now.

touchring
15th June 2006, 03:54 PM
I don't think that this is going to happen. One domain that idnowner owns has Jp-OVT with ext 5000, a top financial domain. He is not even letting it go for a half million now.


But if it's the name of an existing website, if he is offered half a million, he might consider quickly cash out. Unlike ASCII domains, JP OVT with ext do not appear out of thin air - no matter how popular the term.

Explorer
15th June 2006, 03:56 PM
But if it's the name of an existing website, if he is offered half a million, he might consider quickly cash out before he loses it without compensation. Unlike ASCII domains, JP OVT with ext do not appear out of thin air - no matter how popular the term.

If it's a generic word, he has nothing to worry about, right?

markits
15th June 2006, 03:57 PM
Not an existing website name, not at all. A generic domain indeed.

idnowner, is it ok to announce that domain?

idnowner
15th June 2006, 04:01 PM
Not existing website name, not at all. A generic domain indeed.

Idnower, is it ok to announce that domain?


Okay with me... I don't think it's a secret. I think I know the one you're talking about, but I haven's check all of 'em.

markits
15th June 2006, 04:07 PM
The domain is 株.com. Current ovt with ext is 3915, the lowest in four months time (last month 4800+).

gammascalper
15th June 2006, 04:54 PM
A couple of the best French IDN dropped in April 2006 and were picked up by Drewbert and Touchring. Don't forget those!

Overture with extension are over 10,000 for each.

Bastards.

markits
16th June 2006, 04:07 AM
I am sure Drewbert and Touchring's domains are priceless too.
PS: 株 has 76 ovt ads ranging from Y35 to Y377. As Edwin mentioned in another thread, such domains may never be for sale.