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View Full Version : Full Multilingual / IDNs (ML.ML example: 今日.会社)


idnowner
10th January 2006, 11:16 PM
Back in 2000, I registered some "Full Multilingual" domains
from www.universal-names.com (a registrar of www.i-dns.net)

Example Name:  ニュース.会社  (News.com)
The extension is actually dot-Kaisha (.company/.com).

Because of their position in the market, I was hoping their domain registrations would become the standard.

It seems they offer "official" (full) Chinese IDNs.

I would think that Full-Multilinguals would be preferred over IDNs with .com.

One interesting note - doing a whois at universal-names.com, the domain for "Weather" (天気.会社), the registrant is weather.com (The Weather Channel) - admin e-mail: rnoelle@weather.com.  Although the domain's expiration date is Oct. 2002.

Does anyone else here have any Full IDNs?

How likely will universal-names.com's name become the standard?

Should there be a forum specifically for the Full IDNs?

Any other comments?

gammascalper
10th January 2006, 11:29 PM
Back in 2000, I registered some "Full Multilingual" domains
from www.universal-names.com (a registrar of www.i-dns.net)

Example Name: ニュース.会社 (News.com)
The extension is actually dot-Kaisha (.company/.com).

Because of their position in the market, I was hoping their domain registrations would become the standard.

It seems they offer "official" (full) Chinese IDNs.

I would think that Full-Multilinguals would be preferred over IDNs with .com.

One interesting note - doing a whois at universal-names.com, the domain for "Weather" (天気.会社), the registrant is weather.com (The Weather Channel) - admin e-mail: rnoelle@weather.com. Although the domain's expiration date is Oct. 2002.

Does anyone else here have any Full IDNs?

How likely will universal-names.com's name become the standard?

Should there be a forum specifically for the Full IDNs?

Any other comments?



Very interesting!

We've seen this company before in debate over extension IDN-ification.

I believe users need the plug-in from i-dns.net in order to view the extension. From their marketing, it seems like it's in heavy use, but I wouldn't be surprised to find it in decline.

If I were Chinese interested in starting a website with a Chinese name, I would not want to limit my URL to only those users with the plug-in.

Did they lose the betamax war?

Rubber Duck
10th January 2006, 11:37 PM
Yes, the IDN.IDN thing has always part of the equation and i-DNS as been working with China and more or less inciting it to go its own way. The whole thing though is now unravelling at ICANN is about to issue proposals for adoption of IDN.IDN.

China is now fully co-operating with ICANN who now fully understand that they must deliver. There are essentiallly two problem how to made a single channel alias for ccTLDs work and multi-channel aliasing for gTLDS. It looks as though dot CN will actually be put directly into the root in the short term to make dot CN an IDN.IDN. If you buy a dot CN you always get it paired with an IDN.IDN. Up until now these have resolved as a consequence of DNS tinkering within the PRC.

The other proposal is more complicated ,but in short there will be a look up table attached to the Root to enable Multichannel Aliasing. This idea is being pushed by Verisign. I have recently been in discussions with Vint Cerf on the issue. I have made proposals that the DName proposal being put forward by Verisign could actually be extended so that China and other could have as many top Level IDN as they pleased. They wouldn't actually be top level, but the user would never know. I also proposed that the system could be extended to facilitate a Universal Keywords System that would kill all the other keywords system and earn ICANN a fortune.

The long and the short of it is that all the existing registries will go IDN.IDN within the next 12 to 18 months. There will not be any requirement for new registeries, but your existing domains will start to appear in local script in various parts of the globe. In other words designated rerpresentations of local characters will be able to be used instead of typing in dot com and will resolve to the same place as the dot com does now.

This is not a problem. Just forget about it and it will simply happen!

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

Rubber Duck
10th January 2006, 11:43 PM
Back in 2000, I registered some "Full Multilingual" domains
from www.universal-names.com (a registrar of www.i-dns.net)

Example Name: ニュース.会社 (News.com)
The extension is actually dot-Kaisha (.company/.com).

Because of their position in the market, I was hoping their domain registrations would become the standard.

It seems they offer "official" (full) Chinese IDNs.

I would think that Full-Multilinguals would be preferred over IDNs with .com.

One interesting note - doing a whois at universal-names.com, the domain for "Weather" (天気.会社), the registrant is weather.com (The Weather Channel) - admin e-mail: rnoelle@weather.com. Although the domain's expiration date is Oct. 2002.

Does anyone else here have any Full IDNs?

How likely will universal-names.com's name become the standard?

Should there be a forum specifically for the Full IDNs?

Any other comments?



Very interesting!

We've seen this company before in debate over extension IDN-ification.

I believe users need the plug-in from i-dns.net in order to view the extension. From their marketing, it seems like it's in heavy use, but I wouldn't be surprised to find it in decline.

If I were Chinese interested in starting a website with a Chinese name, I would not want to limit my URL to only those users with the plug-in.

Did they lose the betamax war?


The main batch of IDN.IDN will resolve to dot CN. In theory there are others but I think the number of registrations will be very small. These other will resolve at the second level, but may yet be Aliased at the first level.

I think it is unlikely that large number of domain holders will loose out. Those that do, if any, will be within the PRC, but it will not be the holders of top level dot CN.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

idnowner
10th January 2006, 11:47 PM
...
The long and the short of it is that all the existing registries will go IDN.IDN within the next 12 to 18 months.
...

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon


So, Dave - Regarding the Japanese (IDN.会社) domains, do you think the i-dns.net / universal-names.com registrations, specifically, will become "real" domains, or would they more likely be implemented by Verisign, the Japanese Government, or by another entity?

g
10th January 2006, 11:57 PM
Idn.Idn  failed to gain success especially the arabic one because people don't see www  .com as a different language ... they see it as a frame for the pic ...

Taking arabic Idn as example

I have seen sites trying to advertise idn.idn like
http://registrar.ayna.com/toplevel_html

and they have registered tons of them as per their saying
http://registrar.ayna.com/names_list

I think most of these names have been dropped and I saw the IDN of this site points to a page with many IDN.com for sale !!!!
www.أين.com

I don't actually understand how idn.idn work. as I heard people saying idn.idn will be the same idn.com... but cann't understand how? ... if the chinese idn.idn goes to idn.cn ... what will the arabic idn.idn go to? as there is no extension for arab.

idnowner
11th January 2006, 12:02 AM
Another interesting note...

A long, long time ago, I registered some Full IDNs at www.unicodedn.com

They once were a registrar for i-dns.net, but for some reason, that association seemed to disappear. So my names were transferred to universal-names.com.

www.unicodedn.com offers IDNs for .com and .net, and has a nice interface that allows input of non-English characters, and makes it easy to look up whois info.

They are also the makers of the NJStar Word processor.

Rubber Duck
11th January 2006, 07:14 AM
Idn.Idn failed to gain success especially the arabic one because people don't see www .com as a different language ... they see it as a frame for the pic ...

Taking arabic Idn as example

I have seen sites trying to advertise idn.idn like
http://registrar.ayna.com/toplevel_html

and they have registered tons of them as per their saying
http://registrar.ayna.com/names_list

I think most of these names have been dropped and I saw the IDN of this site points to a page with many IDN.com for sale !!!!
www.أين.com

I don't actually understand how idn.idn work. as I heard people saying idn.idn will be the same idn.com... but cann't understand how? ... if the chinese idn.idn goes to idn.cn ... what will the arabic idn.idn go to? as there is no extension for arab.


Well the Arabic site you mention here is owned by a Forum Member, I think it is Dillpup.

I would guess that those who have bought IDN.IDN from i-DNS in Arabic have essentially lost their money. IDN.IDN currently only work with a plug-in and some internet tinkering with a given country. May be the owner actually own something in dot ae or another Arabic ccTLD. There is talk of issue an Pan Arabic extension, but the whole thing in my view is fraught with problems and will take even longer than dot EU.

Once IE 7.0 plug-in resolution will be obscelete and may not even be supported at all.

At present ICANN have not implemented IDN.IDN resolution, but once they have there will be no distinction between IDN and IDN.IDN. It may be that some ccTLDs are enabled before there is a more generally implementation. This is because some countries in Asia are putting enourmous pressure on ICANN to get this implemented, and because of the shear number involved it may actually be more efficient to do it this way and consequently put less pressure on the DNS.

My advice it to stick with Verisign, but the Chinese and Japanese ccTLDs are also to be trusted on this. However, IDN to some extent renders ccTLDs obscelete in many countries, as if you put in Chinese characters you're not generaly going to end up at a US website.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

drbiohealth
11th January 2006, 07:46 AM
IMHO, I think over a period of time ccTLDs will get washed away. .com has ruled and will rule. The only handicap that .com had until now wrt non-enlish countries was the absense of IDN and this will soon be taken care of. The entire internet world might get transformed into a big .com bazaar where domains would have features both common as well as diverse. They say about India, unity among diversity...:-).

Why would anyone use local extensions as against .com when .com perhaps would provide similar levels of advatanges vis-a-vis IDN.jp or .cn or whatever, wrt local search engine results? What mileage ccTLDs will provide to the user that .com will not? Ofcourse there will be that "nationalism" element in ccTLD? Not sure how big this "nationalism" issue would be though?

Raj

Rubber Duck
11th January 2006, 08:35 AM
IMHO, I think over a period of time ccTLDs will get washed away. .com has ruled and will rule. The only handicap that .com had until now wrt non-enlish countries was the absense of IDN and this will soon be taken care of. The entire internet world might get transformed into a big .com bazaar where domains would have features both common as well as diverse. They say about India, unity among diversity...:-).

Why would anyone use local extensions as against .com when .com perhaps would provide similar levels of advatanges vis-a-vis IDN.jp or .cn or whatever, wrt local search engine results? What mileage ccTLDs will provide to the user that .com will not? Ofcourse there will be that "nationalism" element in ccTLD? Not sure how big this "nationalism" issue would be though?

Raj


I think your comments on diversity are very valid. For this reason I think you have have several patterns appearing. Where IDN give a distinct local and cultural focus, I think ccTLD will not thrive except for perhaps China, Japan and Russia, where the markets will be so huge that dot com certainly won't quench it. They may also help to provide local focus in the Arabic world, which consists of 25 countries.

In English and Spanish speaking countries and perhaps others, I think the ccTLD will give a local focus that the language alone cannot. If you are looking for a specific product in English in the UK, the US results need to be filtered out. The ccTLD helps to do just that. The is no IDN angle in English. So that situation will pertain.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

drbiohealth
11th January 2006, 11:36 AM
That is indeed a very logical point, Dave... :)



In English and Spanish speaking countries and perhaps others, I think the ccTLD will give a local focus that the language alone cannot. If you are looking for a specific product in English in the UK, the US results need to be filtered out. The ccTLD helps to do just that. The is no IDN angle in English. So that situation will pertain.

Best Regards
Dave Wrixon

sarcle
11th January 2006, 02:05 PM
from www.universal-names.com (a registrar of www.i-dns.net)
Example Name:  ニュース.会社  (News.com)
The extension is actually dot-Kaisha (.company/.com).
It seems they offer "official" (full) Chinese IDNs.
I would think that Full-Multilinguals would be preferred over IDNs with .com.
Does anyone else here have any Full IDNs?
How likely will universal-names.com's name become the standard?
Any other comments?


All of this is really a moot point. If it's not sanctioned by icann it will not fly-ever. I also remember this company back when they were and are selling other extentions as well such as (.sex .xxx .areo .travel) Do any of these look familiar? Icann rules the internet and anything they do will be the way people see the interent. I would say investing an any such company is a waste of money.

IDNCowboy
11th January 2006, 07:19 PM
the new company f*cked things up tho by doing .china in IDN and .com .net in IDN

now what??? ICANN better look into this and make sure that the idn .com's succesfully switch to .idn

sarcle
11th January 2006, 07:21 PM
the new company f*cked things up tho by doing .china in IDN and .com .net in IDN

now what???  ICANN better look into this and make sure that the idn .com's succesfully switch to .idn


That's excatly my point.  Icann is working on it with China.  And these domains from this other company will be useless.

Olney
11th January 2006, 10:12 PM
I can't really see this as being a suggestion.
I'm moving it to general Discussion