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sarcle
25th June 2006, 01:58 AM
By Kieren McCarthy (http://forms.theregister.co.uk/mail_author/?story_url=/2006/06/22/icann_marrakesh_preview/)
Published Thursday 22nd June 2006 13:33 GMT

ICANN Marrakech There will be much to discuss (http://www.icann.org/meetings/marrakech/) at ICANN's Marrakech meeting which kicks off this Saturday, but one question rises about all others: what will happen to the internet on 30 September 2006?
ICANN has its own agenda to discuss, but that agenda and what people actually want to discuss are a little different. As is the fundamental issue that everyone at that meeting should be talking about. This is our account of what is likely to happen, why, and what it all means.

First off, here are the specific items on the ICANN check list:

Internationalised Domain Names (IDNs)
Otherwise known as the rest of the world being allowed the internet in their own language. This is one of the most fundamental areas for the future of the net, and one ICANN has failed to date. But, give it its due, the whole WSIS (World Summit on International Society) process had seen ICANN get its act together and it has been running IDN workshops every meeting for the past four meetings. Plus, in Vancouver, ICANN CEO Paul Twomey announced a Presidential Committee for IDNs. I just hope this time something real and tangible comes out of it. If it's just another three hour discussion about how "we can't get it to work", and "it's more complicated that you think", we might as well just split up the internet right now.

Countries signing up to ICANN
This is a big deal for ICANN: ccTLDs (country-code top-level domains) saying, okay then, we acknowledge that ICANN is in a position of authority. Following the German agreement (http://www.icann.org/announcements/announcement1-31may06.htm) - which has been very carefully worded not to have any legal tie-ins - other countries have also run to sign up: Latvia (or possibly Lithunania (http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/21/039230&mode=thread)), Christmas Island, Norfolk Island and - amazingly - Namibia. Is Eberhard Lisse still in charge of .na? This gives ICANN a certain level of legitimacy that it has been sorely lacking. The real turning point will be when/if the UK's Nominet signs up.

Enhanced co-operation
This is a big issue, and a lot of time will be devoted to governments reaching agreement over how they are going to have a bigger say in how ICANN functions. It is absolutely vital that ICANN is able to announce a plan before its Memorandum of Understanding with the US government is renewed in September - it will be its only real defence when the Bush administration insists on retaining control. What is very, very annoying is that all of this will, as ever, be done behind closed doors.

Whois
ICANN doesn't really want to get involved with this because it means trouble: how much information on domain name holders should be freely and publicly available? ICANN doesn't really have any choice but to discuss it: the GNSO voted in a fundamental change after two years of work and that has to be acknowledged. The player to watch here will be the US government. If it is crazy enough to try to insist on keeping the status quo (where your home address and telephone number are available to anyone in the entire world), against the GNSO's own stated position, all hell will break loose. Of course, the US won't actually do that, it will instead try to muddy the issue, point to all the differences, and then say we need more discussion. But there is very little goodwill towards the US government at the moment following the .xxx debacle, so if it has any sense it will let it go. Here's betting it won't.

DNSSEC
Otherwise known as "are we still discussing this?" Another example of how ICANN's processes clearly aren't efficient enough. This more secure and stable method of underpinning the internet should have been done and dusted two years ago.

Domain Names
The one good example of ICANN thinking straight. There are a whole range of new issues over domain names and ICANN is precisely the forum where they should be being discussed. There is a workshop (http://www.icann.org/meetings/marrakech/dn-workshop-27jun06.htm), run by Jothan Frakes, and everyone of importance is slated to talk. If only ICANN meetings had more of these events. Frakes has talked a little about it on ICANNWatch (http://www.icannwatch.org/article.pl?sid=06/06/22/0029229&mode=thread).

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/06/22/icann_marrakesh_preview/

Giant
25th June 2006, 04:02 AM
Will or will not? That's not the question (we should ask).

A lot of large corporations have invested billions in business, and their business rely on internet to function. Let them worry and take care of this question.

We should always have faith that people will make right decisions.

Drewbert
25th June 2006, 05:51 AM
>We should always have faith that people will make right decisions.

Tell that to Enron shareholders/employees or people of California.

The right decisions for people running a business or a country are usually not the right ones for joe public.

idn1234
25th June 2006, 09:37 AM
The right decisions for people running a business or a country are usually not the right ones for joe public.

I agree, but we are talking about 'business' here.
Internet=business, simple as that, and business
decisions will always prevail over everything else...

There's nothing to worry about.

sarcle
25th June 2006, 03:50 PM
>We should always have faith that people will make right decisions.

Tell that to Enron shareholders/employees or people of California.

The right decisions for people running a business or a country are usually not the right ones for joe public.

Drewbert is right on this.

When ICANN CEO Paul Twomey announces something like this. It is cause for a little concern.


I just hope this time something real and tangible comes out of it. If it's just another three hour discussion about how "we can't get it to work", and "it's more complicated that you think", we might as well just split up the internet right now.

Olney
25th June 2006, 03:56 PM
Good find this is the author's blog
I actually posted a comment there before Sarcle put this up...

http://kierenmccarthy.co.uk/2006/06/22/will-the-net-die-in-september-marrakech-preview/

touchring
25th June 2006, 04:01 PM
Well, Business is never the key decision maker, politics is. IBM wanted to do business with Hitler but the war stopped them.

bwhhisc
25th June 2006, 04:05 PM
When ICANN CEO Paul Twomey announces something like this. It is cause for a little concern.

Seems that all of the "parts and pieces" are in place for idns to take start moving into the mainstream by popular demand once IE7 comes mainstream and international speakers begin to search in native language.

For those with Firefox, IE7 beta etc. downloaded can access the hundreds or thousands of idn sites already operational or do search in native language. With millions of idns registered and a system to handle them, it seems the IDN genie is out of the bottle in a substantial way here.

sarcle
25th June 2006, 04:10 PM
Seems that all of the "parts and pieces" are in place for idns to take start moving into the mainstream by popular demand once IE7 comes mainstream and all of the international users begin to search in native language.

For those with Firefox, IE7 beta etc. downloaded can access the hundreds or thousands of idn sites already operational or do search in native language. With millions of idns registered and a system to handle them, it seems the IDN genie is out of the bottle in a substantial way here.

I do agree and I do follow. I'm just the messinger but what could Paul mean by that statement?

China was the first to announce they were going to shake things up by breaking up the internet but then quieted down after a little talk with Icann. Now Icann is saying this. I really don't trust what's going on behind those curtains.


Well, Business is never the key decision maker, politics is. IBM wanted to do business with Hitler but the war stopped them.


Yes it's the Chinese/Icann politics that has me concerned.

555
25th June 2006, 04:15 PM
di·gres·sion (dī-grĕsh'ən, dĭ-)
n.
The act of digressing.
An instance of digressing, especially a written or spoken passage that has no bearing on the main subject.
digressional di·gres'sion·al adj.

OPENED NEW THREAD

Hi All,

A little off subject but also related:

1.Where do you see the .com and .net (which is all that is now available for most languages) when they will implement idn.cctld i.e computer.com.ua (ukraine) or computer.be (belgium) - Also, when do you think they will work on these cctld idn's?
2.Any news/updates concerning implementation of dname or ns record?

Thanks!

Michael

sarcle
25th June 2006, 04:19 PM
Hi All,

A little off subject but also related:

1.Where do you see the .com and .net (which is all that is now available for most languages) when they will implement idn.cctld i.e computer.com.ua (ukraine) or computer.be (belgium) - Also, when do you think they will work on these cctld idn's?
2.Any news/updates concerning implementation of dname or ns record?

Thanks!

Michael

Digression

Way off topic. Start a new thread.

touchring
25th June 2006, 04:26 PM
I do agree and I do follow. I'm just the messinger but what could Paul mean by that statement?

China was the first to announce they were going to shake things up by breaking up the internet but then quieted down after a little talk with Icann. Now Icann is saying this. I really don't trust what's going on behind those curtains.



Yes it's the Chinese/Icann politics that has me concerned.


Definitely, not long ago, some of us here actually believed that all chinese.com are being redirected to chinese.cn!! :o

Giant
25th June 2006, 04:27 PM
Yes it's the Chinese/Icann politics that has me concerned.

It's win win win situation now. If IDN takes off, China will be happy, ICANN, VeriSign, Registrars will all make money. IDN users will be busy regging, and we will be laughing.... Where's the problem?

But yes, still politics, US government may not be happy!

sarcle
25th June 2006, 04:29 PM
Definitely, not long ago, some of us here actually believed that all chinese.com are being redirected to chinese.cn!!

Lol. I do remember that Touchring.

It's win win win situation now. If IDN takes off, China will be happy, ICANN, VeriSign, Registrars will all make money. IDN users will be busy regging, and we will be laughing.... Where's the problem?

But yes, still politics, US government may not be happy!

Yes, China has proven it works with the .cn. But why now. At this moment is Paul changing his tune and making this statement is the fundemental question.

bwhhisc
25th June 2006, 04:31 PM
Yes it's the Chinese/Icann politics that has me concerned.

It would make NO economic business sense for the Chinese not to participate in the existing internet. If they shut their ecommerce doors on the world they would only majorly screw themselves and their ambitious economic growth plans.

They are courting international business at a pace never seen before. No doubt they would like control on the total content of the internet, and maybe would like to have a "second" internet for the people, but will never break off their lifeline for business. Even some US manufacturer catalogs shoot you to a Chinese website these days, particularly in the novelties and gift business.

touchring
25th June 2006, 04:36 PM
It would make NO economic business sense for the Chinese not to participate in the existing internet. If they shut their ecommerce doors on the world they would only majorly screw themselves and their ambitious economic growth plans.

They are courting international business at a pace never seen before. No doubt they would like control on the total content of the internet, and maybe would like to have a "second" internet for the people, but will never break off their lifeline for business. Even some US manufacturer catalogs shoot you to a Chinese website these days, particularly in the novelties and gift business.


This Chinese scare is still related to evil image of communist or socialist countries. But history has shown that fascist is more dangerous than communist...

idn1234
25th June 2006, 04:38 PM
Well, Business is never the key decision maker, politics is. IBM wanted to do business with Hitler but the war stopped them.

What?!.. Of course, IBM did business with Hitler.
In WWII, IBM provided it's 'punchcard' systems,
and related equipment, to the SS, and there is
a great deal of archival records to suport and
confirm this.

sarcle
25th June 2006, 04:40 PM
It would make NO economic business sense for the Chinese not to participate in the existing internet. If they shut their ecommerce doors on the world they would only majorly screw themselves and their ambitious economic growth plans.

They are courting international business at a pace never seen before. No doubt they would like control on the total content of the internet, and maybe would like to have a "second" internet for the people, but will never break off their lifeline for business. Even some US manufacturer catalogs shoot you to a Chinese website these days, particularly in the novelties and gift business.

Again I agree with this. It is sound and logical. But again why would Paul make a statement like this?

Giant
25th June 2006, 04:42 PM
It would make NO economic business sense for the Chinese not to participate in the existing internet. If they shut their ecommerce doors on the world they would only majorly screw themselves and their ambitious economic growth plans.

They are courting international business at a pace never seen before. No doubt they would like control on the total content of the internet, and maybe would like to have a "second" internet for the people, but will never break off their lifeline for business. Even some US manufacturer catalogs shoot you to a Chinese website these days, particularly in the novelties and gift business.

As far as IDN is concern, China is never a problem. China wanted IDN to be implemented long time ago.

touchring
25th June 2006, 04:51 PM
These people are worried that China will block out idn.com, or redirect idn.com or idn.cn as many believed so much earlier, thus rendering chinese idn.com worthless.

The possibility is there, but less than 1% chance of happening. Even if Taiwan or North Korean war breaks out, the likelihood of it happening is still less than half. Yes, they will block selected websites with undesired contents, but a wholesale block is quite unlikely.

But if they really block it, it will be buying opportunity, no blockade lasts forever, just like America ended it's Libya blockade.

bwhhisc
25th June 2006, 04:51 PM
As far as IDN is concern, China is never a problem. China wanted IDN to be implemented long time ago.

I don't see any problem from the entire international community. What we have is a political scramble over control and swords wavering. When I first started looking at this whole idn thing, it was clear that this entire system was designed from the "Bottom up", not the "Top down", that along with announced date for IE7 were by far was the biggest inidicators that this system was imminent. Even from late last year it seemed more likely (to me) that it would begin to happen by sheer market force and consumer demand than the overriding the politics.

Someone pm'd me about what is meant by "Bottom Up" design- here is from Wikipedia:
"In bottom-up design individual parts of the system are specified in detail. The parts are then linked together to form larger components, which are in turn linked until a complete system is formed. Strategies based on this Bottom-up information flow seem potentially necessary and sufficient because they are based on the knowledge of all variables that may affect the elements of the system". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Top-down

They should use IDNs as a good example of this!

Rubber Duck
25th June 2006, 05:07 PM
<<I just hope this time something real and tangible comes out of it. If it's just another three hour discussion about how "we can't get it to work", and "it's more complicated that you think", we might as well just split up the internet right now.>>

When ICANN CEO Paul Twomey announces something like this. It is cause for a little concern.

I think you will find that is Paul Twomey stating that something will come out of this, and if you want to contribute in a positive way, this is your last opportunity. Clearly, he doesn't want things to sound like a Fait Accompli, but he is seriously indicating there is no room for all the off subject twaddle that featured at Vancouver.

sarcle
25th June 2006, 05:27 PM
I think you will find that is Paul Twomey stating that something will come out of this, and if you want to contribute in a positive way, this is your last opportunity. Clearly, he doesn't want things to sound like a Fait Accompli, but he is seriously indicating there is no room for all the off subject twaddle that featured at Vancouver.

Well put Duck that is the answer I was looking for. I was hoping someone else would see it as well. Well July is not far off and the implementation of Dname along with it. It's crunch time and they better get their heads out off their asses.